The Presentation / Outline / Notes of Bob Grenier's Defense to the Calvary Chapel Visalia Board that included Raul Ries, Gary Ruff, David Rosales, Brent Calvin, Jeff Fly (and others) was leaked recently to CC Abuse. This is what happens behind the Calvary Chapel Curtain folks. If this is how "family" is treated, just think what Cannon Fodder you regular "giving unit" schmucks are.
Following is the text of the Outline/Notes of Bob Grenier Pastor of Calvary Chapel Visalia that he presented to his Board of Directors in response to my contacting the CCV 501c3 Board in 2009 with the allegations of Child Abuse, Financial Misconduct, Spiritual Abuse etc etc. The Board included Raul Ries Calvary Chapel Golden Springs, Gary Ruff Calvary Chapel Sun Valley, David Rosales Calvary Chapel Chino Valley, Brent Calvin Dean of C.O.S., Jeff Fly CEO of Turning Point and others.
Bob Grenier’s words are in Italics, my responses (Alex) are in Brackets and bolded.
He is trying to force reconciliation with his mother…….
He lost the relationship with his mother after he screamed and yelled at her calling her a hypocrite etc, etc………
[I did confront my Mom in our home on Border Links in Visalia about the child abuse that she let happen in our home growing up and I told her she should have protected us. It was very emotional. I was crying, she was crying. She softened. The next time I saw her, nearly 2 weeks later, she was like a robot. Bob got to her once again].
His rants and raves at that point are no different then what was stated in his first letter 4.5 years ago…..
[True, mostly. My story hasn’t changed. It’s been very consistent. I had confronted Bob privately years prior about the child abuse and Bob wouldn’t cop to it and wouldn’t acknowledge the sin, etc. He pushed me off on Greg and Sue Dowds, his main Elder Team, and they listened to my tear-filled long testimony and basically said, “So sorry, nothing can be done now, it’s in the past, leave it to the Lord, don’t harm the church, nothing good can come of this now, go your way and pray about it” etc etc. Basically CC 101 in protecting the Senior Pastor and laying the burden back on the Victim].
All of his efforts are in our opinion, motivated by the goal of reconciling with his mother. He thinks that he can make this happen through the means he has expressed….
[One of my goals was a relationship with my Mother, not reconciliation. I didn’t need to be reconciled to her until Bob did his thing and manipulated her into an Either/Or “loyalty” Choice just like he did with me and my brother Geoff many years prior when Bob punched Geoff out and sent Geoff back east, kicking him out of our family…and blaming him for Bob’s abusiveness. We were all told we couldn’t talk to Geoff, couldn’t communicate with him in any way, that he needed to suffer, etc and that we needed to be “loyal” to the family, etc. That’s how Bob Grenier operates. He commits the sin and breaks the law and others are the bad guys and must suffer. My other goals were to hold Bob accountable for his actions, to get some justice in our situation and to warn the Church and public that Bob is a felony Child Abuser, a liar, steals from the church, etc etc. I found after confronting the CCV Board that Paul Grenier alleges Bob molested him as well as physically abused him].
He bullies his way around, and is trying bully us into his world……..
[The only way to deal with a bully like Bob Grenier is to hit him in the mouth. If I’m a “bully” then Bob Grenier is Adolph Hitler].
Historical perspective leading up to today..
Gayle and I….
We are, and intend to by God’s grace, and have served the Lord since we have been born again….
We have never turned away from following Him…….
All the years our children were living here we …
Followed the Lord…
[Gag. I just threw up in my mouth. Never turned away? How about when you went into your many rages and beat us, cursed at us, put Geoff in a small closet, kicked him when he was on the ground writhing in pain from appendicitis and you thought he was “faking” it, beat Geoff from head-to-toe with a branch from the mulberry tree, struck us in the face repeatedly, etc etc?
How about when a fellow Calvary Chapel Pastor caught you “stoned on pills” in the Philippines?
How about when you stole hundreds of dollars of petty cash from Calvary Chapel Visalia and bought personal items. Paul says Mom bought him a nice pair of expensive sunglasses at South Coast Plaza with money “from the church envelope” on a trip to SoCal (and many many more examples) and your former staff (several) all say you didn’t turn in receipts often and had lame excuses. Heck, even Roger Wing told you to tidy that up during a CCOF Audit (I thought you guys are all “independent”…guess not Chuck Smith)…and you still wouldn’t turn in receipts routinely according to former staff.
How about when Paul says you molested him? What about that? Did you molest him? When Paul told Amy many years ago that you made him gay…don’t you find that pretty concerning? Amy thought he meant because you physically abused him and were a domineering controlling prick…only to find out that he says you molested him. Is it “no big deal” like your homosexual experience you describe in your book “A Common Miracle” that you had with another boy who touched you in boarding school? “Happens all the time” or something like that according to you in your own words in your book? Personally, I think you’re a freak and have done far worse than even I am aware of. You certainly can lie with a straight face (pardon the entendre, it was intended)].
During the years our children lived here..
They gradually and progressively lived a double life……
[Coming from the KING of Double Life himself. You are a such a lying hypocrite. It’s amazing you haven’t been struck by lightening. You are a testament to God’s graciousness you weasel].
And, we do not condemn them for the way they lived……
[Cough, cough, b.s., cough cough. You are one of the most condemning a-holes to have ever walked this planet. I saw you do it to so many people so many times over the years behind the scenes].
this is what happens when you are not saved……..
[Bob must be God Himself, he just judged our Salvational Status. Remarkable, he is Jesus Christ in the flesh. Interesting Standard Bob is using. Um, help me out here, Raul Ries and Chuck Smith are “saved” would you say? Do I need to list all the bad stuff they’ve done and much recently? How about Don Stewart? John Higgins? Skip Heitzig? Do I need to trot out the CC Adultery List? How about Dino Cardelli and Chris Olague? Jimmy Kempner? (So very many more…long long list…bad bad stuff).
And, I can write a book (or a blog?) on the long list of your sins and skeletons. Seems “saved” people do bad stuff too, even “saved” people who are supposed to be Qualified for Ministry per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and aren’t Pastors held to a “stricter judgment” etc? Nah, that’s just the Bible, LOL, it’s not from Bob’s Mouth. Bob, if you are “saved” then anyone can be saved, and they can do whatever sin they want, just sayin’].
Alex, just admitted he got saved in May of 09….
[I may have, or I may have been “saved” prior to that and was backslidden (if there is such a thing) or not following the Lord as closely as now. Or, I wasn’t saved. Something happened though around that time that resulted in a besetting sin being all the way dealt with (so far) from that time forward. I still sin in other areas though. Maybe, Bob, you can tell me how you do it…you know…how you’ve achieved sinless perfection Post-saved? It’s amazing how Sanctified you are. On the other hand, I know you’re a liar and have witnessed a lot of your sinful ways (as have many many others) so you’re full of b.s. You aren’t Spiritually Qualified to be the Janitor at Calvary Chapel, let alone a Pastor/Elder].
I certainly don’t see the fruit of the Spirit in his life before then, and certainly not since then…….
[Ditto there chief. The only time I saw any fruit out of you Bob was when you turned on the charm in public and then it was Wax Fruit].
There was a time in our lives that we were not saved either……..
[Like yesterday? LOL. Again, Bob, if you’re truly “saved” then the bar is very very low].
But, the fact is, that while we lived for, and served the Lord, they did not…..
[Bob, the only person you’ve served is YOURSELF. I know Jesus (I think) and I never witnessed you serving Him. Your man kingdom? Yes, saw lots of you serving that. Your selfishness? Lots of you serving that. Your pride and ego? Tons of you serving that, etc.].
The trouble with Geoff and myself…
He was a rebellious child. He at some point began using steroids…
[Geoff was within the range of normal and it wasn’t his fault you have anger issues and are a child abuser. You’re responsible for your own sin Bob. Quit blaming a kid who you were trusted to care for as father and pastor. They should have locked you up for what you did to him (and us). But, like with your Drug Smuggling and Drug Dealer days (that you describe in your own words in your book) you got away with another crime. Me and a CC Pastor Friend call you the “Teflon Jedi”…you keep getting away with being a scoundrel and you have a way of manipulating and lying and spinning people that is both legendary and infamous].
The rest of what happened between him and I is history…
[Ya, history you’d like to rewrite or erase].
Amy XXXX enters the picture…..
She sought almost from the start to dislodge our son Alex from the relationship we had with him……
[She was from a normal God honoring non-abusive family and our complete dysfunction and your controlling prickness jumped out at her in stark contrast to her good home].
Which had been a pretty good one, it was in fact a relationship…….etc…
[I wouldn’t go nearly that far. I drank your Kool-aid, I was afraid of you, I was manipulated into believing your “Prophet” Status and didn’t want to “Touch God’s Anointed” etc and I was under your spell. It was like Stockholm Syndrome and Jonestown all mixed together].
We began realizing that she and her entire family, were gossips and backbiters……
[Nice, the “Gossip!” Card. Smear Amy’s family who is light years better than our family will ever be. Typical tactic, “they’re gossips and backbiters!” CC 101. Well, you’re a child abuser, molester, thief, liar, drug abuser, glutton, jerk etc.].
We warned Alex, over and over again to beware of all this……
[You tried to create distance between me and Amy’s family when you realized you couldn’t con them].
Following Alex and Amy’s marriage….
Alex caved into her way of thinking and living…
[I realized Amy was right about you Bob. It took a long time for me to come out of your spell, it happened in steps and progressions, just like many others are now experiencing. I see you clearly for who and what you are].
Our relationship with Alex, grew strained and extremely difficult….
At one point when talking to Alex about his faith in Christ…….
he told me he never wanted me to talk to him about Christ….
[Yes, Bob, you were the last person on the planet I wanted to get preached at by. You are a monumental hypocrite and abuser and it made me uncomfortable (nearly nauseous) hearing you talk about Jesus to me. Not because I didn’t want to hear about Jesus, but because you were such an example of the opposite of Jesus and you were such an evil and destructive person in my life. I sought out guys like Jim Souza and Ron Story and others to talk to about Jesus, as I saw they resembled the Jesus I read about in Scripture].
Paul’s turning away from his faith in Christ. His announcement of that to us. His fall into drugs drinking, living away from our home…
[Paul says he took prescription pills (many of them Grandma Ruth’s) often with you and Mom and that he and Mom drank wine together often. Paul knew the drill. When he was in the family he played your game until you got abusive with him again].
He eventually asked if he could come back and live at home….
[Yes, he did. It must have been terrible on him to have to go back to you, but when you are in those college years and trying to have a roof over your head, food, a vehicle etc it’s tough. You knew he needed you for support and you wielded that support like a weapon and a puppet string].
As time went on…
Geoff got married and divorced. Used cocaine alot…
Beat his wife up….
Was a fornicating ( still is ) scoundrel…
[Oh, ya, I forgot, Geoff’s the bad guy and the scoundrel, not you. You are such a manipulative snake-tongued shifty bastard. It is amazing that you aren’t consumed by worms this moment. God truly is merciful and long-suffering. Maybe your intense abusiveness and destructiveness toward Geoff all those years had something to do with Geoff’s self-destructive behavior? I’m guessing…yes, a lot to do with it].
Again, no condemnation, we understand that is what sinful people do…….
[Oh, yes Bob, no condemnation at all…you’re just having to state the facts, got it].
What he told me before his wedding. No Bible Crap in the ceremony….
Paul announced that he was gay. [Could it be because you molested him?] We accepted him. Even gave him a job at the church office. Helped put him through COS, and Fresno State….
[Yes, and Jerry Sandusky was very nice to his Victims as well, as long as they kept the Secret].
To the tune of $15,000.00 Paul gave Jesus the middle finger..
[You deserved the middle finger, both of them (and much more than that)…Paul was giving YOU the middle finger as you were the self-professed Representative/Prophet of Jesus in his life].
Alex and Amy grew apart. Alex at one point was thinking of divorcing her.
[We had our problems early in marriage. Most of it was my sinfulness and some of it was your terrible advice and influence. You, Bob, are the one who tried to convince me I could and should divorce her…”let the unbeliever depart” is what you said. You didn’t like her because you couldn’t con her and manipulate her like so many others. You even called a CC Pastor friend of yours to try and talk him into it. He told you that you were wrong. You were convinced I was “saved” when I went with your Program, yet now you say “He never showed any fruit that would tell me he was saved”. You sure thought I was saved when I attended your Church and drank the Kool-aid].
Alex made money like it was going out of style….
[True dat. First 100% factual thing you’ve stated in this note].
We helped get his business going To the tune of $10,000.00…..
[It was $5,000 and it was a loan. I was late on ONE PAYMENT and you FREAKED out at my first home on Center Street. You came back later and said it was causing stress in the relationship so you forgave the balance of the loan. I don’t remember how much was left, but assuming it was most of the $5,000, thanks. Appreciate it. I’d refund the 5 G’s for a God-honoring loving childhood (like my kids are having) in a heart beat].
We took out a second on our home…..
[Doubtful, you probably took it from the Church monies].
Eventually the strain was unbearable. Rude and hateful attitudes from Amy……
[Rude and hateful? Honest and real and at times disgusted by your attitude and actions and hypocrisy].
Paul driving a new honda we had bought for him to use…
[Yes, Jerry Sandusky was nice to his Victims as long as they kept the Secret. You did a whole lot of nice things for Paul as I remember. Seemed like you were always buying him stuff and trying to keep him happy. Now you’re doing the same thing to Robert / Bobby Jr. whereas before you needed Bobby Jr. as Cover, you put him in the Visalia Rescue Mission and when Bobby Jr. was admitted to Cypress Mental Health for “hearing voices” and expressing suicidal thoughts, you made Mom leave for vacation to Whistler Canada THE VERY NEXT DAY, even though she called Amy sobbing and saying she wanted to stay with her baby boy. You are truly a selfish bastard].
The missing drugs. Asking Paul… The next day… That night, i.e the Thurs nite.
[Yes, you accused Paul of stealing 10 of your Ambien Sleeping pills that you were hooked on (probably still are). You’ve been getting “stoned on pills” since the 1980’s that we know of (according to a current CC Pastor who witnessed it and you admitted it to him). Paul didn’t steal your precious pills and you treated him terribly and crossed the lines into being mentally and verbally abusive during that episode and I wasn’t going to stand by silently and let you do your thing any longer in our home].
Paul severed his relationship with us…..
It became apparent to us that Alex and Paul had been in cahoots together. We had asked Alex to help us, only to find out he was an adversary. It was that night that the switch flipped in my mind and heart….
[I was intervening and standing up to you and your abusiveness within our family. I had had enough and wasn’t going to allow you to mistreat Paul that way and I was afraid you were going to lose your temper and get physical again with him as well. I was now a grown man, had resolved enough to not let it happen any longer and I stood up to you. I was an adversary of your sinfulness and abusiveness in our family].
I realized what had been going on all this time, and was only now seeing it for the first time….
Two weeks later, the explosion to his mother…..
[You tried to manipulate me and steer me back into the fold and offered me more Kool-aid. You were wrong for mistreating Paul and I wouldn’t let you spin me this time and I began confronting the past Child Abuse in our home].
At that point.. Gayle tried to keep seeing XXXXX (Granddaughter). Soon, that became threatening.
[Our door was always open to Mom and she was encouraged to visit her granddaughter. She was not threatened in any way. You are the one who used to drag her to the back bedroom and lock the door and then scream at her (and who knows what else). Geoff says he saw you smack her around. Paul says he saw you on top of her choking her one time. You, Bob, shared a story from the Calvary Chapel Pulpit of how you lost your temper and broke a chair (putting a gash in the popcorn ceiling when you raised it over your head and then smashing it into the floor breaking it into pieces). That scared Mom and us to death and was a mild episode compared to many others where you hurt us physically. You thought it was a big joke. We kids and my Mom were scared of you as you looked and acted demon-possessed in your many rages].
She stopped seeing her…
[My Mom softened when I first confronted the Child Abuse, then she got reprogrammed by Bob and went back into Robot Mode. She stopped coming to visit her granddaughter soon after].
A few months later we got the letter. Since that time we have never said a word to them…….
[Bob said he wouldn’t talk to me any longer in person (since I wouldn’t back down and insisted on a Matthew 18 process) and told me to put my grievances in a letter and to go see the Dowds. I’ve learned this is Calvary Chapel Standard Operating Procedure (but they’re all “independent”? Just coincidence I guess…eh, Chuck?]
And now… Alex, who has given into his wife, and allowed his brother Paul to link up with him, realized that he has lost a relationship with his mother…..
[I knew when I stood up to Bob Grenier, he’d hurt me with the last thing he could…a relationship with my Mom. I had to count the costs].
And continues to try and pressure us to admit to things we never have done,
[Glen C., a 24 year Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Member, has come forward with testimony that Bob Grenier admitted to what the State of California calls Felony Child Abuse to the Calvary Chapel Visalia Board on or around 1988. Bob did his usual spin and lying and tried to minimize the abuse in our home and placed the blame for his actions on Geoff. The Board was still obligated to report the crime (Bob admitted to punching Geoff in the face) and the Board didn’t report it to authorities, but rather covered it up. Bob got away with it. I want Bob to admit to what he did. I have accurately described in “the letter” many of the things he did in fact do, and one of the serious things is corroborated by Bob’s own admission to the Board. Bob is a liar. He’s caught in this BIG lie per Glen’s testimony].
( so that Alex does not have to admit to the way he has lived, and what he has allowed his wife to do, and his brother Paul etc, )
[Hey, I’ve copped to my sins. I copped to a very big one when I started taking this on publicly. I am not Qualified to be a Pastor and I don’t want to be one. It is truly a high calling and if you aren’t Qualified per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, you should be on the other side of the Pulpit. I’m a lot of things, but I am not a pastor, I am not a child abuser, I don’t steal from the church and spiritually abuse people etc etc. And, this isn’t about me or Geoff or Paul. We’ve been well “punished” for our perceived sins (by Bob). This is about a Pastor and father who has been terribly abusive to so many people over the years…and no accountability and no justice has been served and there has been no confession and repentance on Bob’s part].
Alex has been bullying his way around on the internet, and is now trying to bully our board at Calvary Chapel……..
[Again, when “dealing with devils” and rolling around with pigs, sometimes you have to get muddy. Bob is the KING of bullies. I am calling on a California Non-Profit Corporation’s Board to deal with their CEO. I am calling on a Calvary Chapel Board to deal with its Pastor. There is a “bully” in this saga, and his name is Bob Grenier. I don’t beat women and children].
What’s bothering him is he has no relationship with his mother.. He told her, he could live without one with me, but never her……he could not live if he did not have one with her…
[I do miss my Mom, but it’s like a death, the pain gets less with time. I can, in fact, live fine (and better) without a relationship with Bob (in his unrepentant lying state). I never said I couldn’t “live” (if Bob is spinning something and hinting at something and I’m sure he is) without my Mom. I can live without her, but I’d rather have her in my life like other normal Sons and Mothers. But, Bob has gotten away with destroying that relationship and blaming it on everyone else but the true culprit in all of this…him].