Feb 282012
 

"Accountability"....a dirty word in Calvary Chapel.

Pastor Michael Newnham over at Phoenixpreacher.net did a podcast recently with Jason Stellman, a former Calvary Chapel missionary who is now the pastor and teaching elder at Exile Presbyterian church in Washington state.

Calvary Chapel has a big problem…and some justice, I believe, is on the coming horizon.

How does sin, abuse and corruption blow up to the level that requires what’s coming? Well, a lack of addressing abuses, corruption, sin in the Camp, etc in a just and righteous way, is one big reason. When you let sin fester, it grows…and when it grows and is continually ignored by Leadership (like Chuck Smith, Calvary Chapel Boards, etc) it gets really big and the consequences to that sin get really bad.

Here’s how the Presby’s do their thing…seems to be an option worth considering (click on the link below to access the podcast):

http://phoenixpreacher.net/?p=11303

 

 Posted by at 11:49 am
Feb 272012
 

The Voices aren't speaking in Latin, thank God...but they are saying this stuff over yonder--->

Copying my buddy Michael Newnham at PhoenixPreacher.net. I like the format and I’m sure he copied it from someone else, nothing new under the sun as they say.

What are the Voices saying today? Not that anyone cares, but that’s not a factor for most who post their thoughts (not directed at Michael, but at humanity in general).

1. Michael attended the Justice Conference up in Portland, Oregon. Here’s the link: http://thejusticeconference.com/ Social Justice is a very Political Hot Button issue. Here’s my take: The Justice Conference in Portland proves the Church can and should be in the business of helping the poor and needy…and our Federal Government shouldn’t. The ills of the World’s poor and needy and America’s poor and needy and the Righteous Passion of a Justice Conference and venues like it are more of an Indictment on the Rich Christian Church’s lack of responsibility in making the poor and needy a priority than it is an indictment on the American Government. Social Justice is a Moral Issue. Our Rich American Church should stop paying pikers like Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia over $100,000 per year in salary and benefits and building man kingdoms (Raul Ries, Mike MacIntosh, Chuck Smith, David Rosales etc) that cost millions in buildings, overhead, advertising, travel, perks, big salaries, big radio stations, omega watches, tommy bahama shirts, cafes, etc etc.

The Church is the reason we have a problem in America with Social Justice, not our Government. Our Government should not be in the business of Legislating Morality via taxation and spending us into oblivion. Social Justice should be the job of the private sector, with the Government providing some basic Safety Nets. Right now, we have a Lazy and Gluttonous Church paying lip-service to the Social Justice issue while relying on the Government and US Middle Class Taxpayer to do what they should be doing. Our Government is in catastrophic debt and Socializing more and more by the minute. We are bailing out our Poor and our Rich. We have the worst combination for the Middle Class: Socialism for the Poor and Corporate Socialism for the Rich…and a Lazy and Greedy Church that cares more about spending Millions on their buildings, conferences, travel and benefits for their Leadership than they do about obeying Jesus’s instruction of what “true Religion” really looks like. A pox on all of them (and myself).

2. Don Stewart co-host of “Pastor’s Perspective” with the high holy profit Chuck Smith has made the blogosphere here: http://rrrapostasyalert.blogspot.com/2012/01/january-20-2012-show-my-perspective-on.html Jackie Alnor did a very good job with this, IMO. Truth seasoned with grace (much better than I’d handle it). The truth about Don Stewart is much worse than she reports. I know the gory details of his situation, but there’s only so much time in the day. I’ve asked Don Stewart very specific questions to verify what other sources have told me. He won’t respond, which is typical of Calvary Chapel Leadership, they are a law unto themselves and not accountable to anyone other than Chuck Smith’s unScriptural “Loyalty” Construct…though Chuck lies and says he’s not responsible and doesn’t have any control over anyone.

3. The biggest National Security Crisis America faces today? Iran? Terrorism? Mexican Drug Cartels? North Korea? Nope. The US Dollar losing its World Reserve Currency status. The Powers that Be know the implications of this happening. It’s really bad news for the Average American as the US Dollar would be revalued overnight and the cost of “stuff” like gas, and stuff made out of petroleum or shipped/transported, etc will go up sharply. My only Conclusion of why we’re still racing toward that cliff, knowing that the Powers that Be understand Macro-Economics, is that there is a Group within the United States who wants this to happen. Hillary Clinton is posturing for World Bank head: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/09/clinton-world-bank-president_n_874484.html China is calling for the US Dollar to be replaced as the World Reserve Currency: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7851925a-17a2-11de-8c9d-0000779fd2ac.html#axzz1nbkqzV6K Russia calls for the US Dollar to be replaced as the World Reserve Currency: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/world/europe/03medvedev.html UN calls for replacing the US Dollar as World Reserve Currency: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/29/us-dollar-reserves-un-idUSTRE65S40620100629 The Vatican (Roman Catholic Church) calls for replacing the US Dollar as World Reserve Currency and for a “World Central Bank” System: http://www.cnbc.com/id/45013499/Vatican_Calls_for_Central_World_Bank_to_Be_Set_Up

Many will cry, “Conspiracy Theory! Conspiracy Theory!” LOL. It’s right in your face, you’d have to be an American Idol watching vacuous idiot to not observe what’s going on around you…at rapid speed. Unfortunately, the US is full of American Idol watching vacuous idiots. It’s a pandemic.

4. If Jeremy Lin were a College Football Player, I’d care. The NBA is dead to me, as is Major League Baseball. I could care less. They’ve lost a fan for life. I’ll stick to College Football, Minor League Baseball and College Basketball. Once they go Pro, it’s pretty much ruined. Full disclosure, I can’t shake the NFL, dang Fantasy Football!

5. I have come to the realization that I’m still a jerk. However, I can’t resolve this issue: When I’m bluntly honest about my take on something is it that I care too much to lie and sugar-coat it, or do I not care enough? “Wounds of a friend” and “rebuke them” on one hand vs. being nice and “clanging cymbal” on the other hand. Probably a mix of both, and of course, I’m (still) an incurable jerk, no matter how much lipstick I try to put on the pig. I couldn’t hold Martin Luther’s water, and there’s much I detest about the historical figure’s words (especially “On the Jews and Their Lies”…if you want to read something truly offensive from a Stalwart of the Protestant Christian Faith and the man who single-handedly ushered in Protestantism…read it, you’ll cringe)…but I can relate to his style. Maybe he was just disgusted with pretty much everything around him.

6. Calvary Chapel still sucks. Its Pastors are partly to blame, “Not my responsibility! I’m not like the other guys!” etc etc. If you’re a Democrat and you wave the Team Flag and you voted for Obama and you support the Party with your time and money…or conversely if you are a Republican and you wave the Team Flag and you voted for W. Bush and you support the Party with your time and money…you have some responsibility for what the Leaders do, for the laws that are passed, for the policies and actions and bad stuff that others do in your Tent, etc.

7. I watched Mike MacIntosh and Pancho Juarez give nice speeches at Bob Grenier’s Calvary Chapel Visalia Men’s Conference (it was billed as “The Central Valley Men’s Conference” but make no mistake, it was in Bob’s man kingdom at his pulpit and was a big ‘ol rally for Bob G.). Mike and Pancho both said some good stuff…unfortunately, the words are completely hollow. It’s like Bernie Madoff giving a nice speech about ethics in Finance. The information was good and correct…however, their buddy who introduced them to the pulpit is the direct opposite of what they were selling…and they could care less. It’s not about truth and righteousness, its about building man kingdoms and supporting those who are “loyal” to their Crew and their Brand. Raul Ries is as bad or worse than Bob Grenier. If an Investigator with authority ever digs in, there will be jail time, I’m convinced of that.

1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

My prayer is that these crooks and cons will be held accountable for the money-changers and liars they are.

8. On a positive note: Somehow God is in control of all of it (either Deterministically or dependent on our “choices” etc). The end result of Prophecy “has” to happen, right? No avoiding it no matter what our “choices” are, correct? If the “Anti-Christ” is a literal physical man…he could theoretically “choose” to repent, right? Then the prophecy would eventually be fulfilled by another man, but what if he “chose” to repent and so on and so forth? In other words, do we have the ability to delay something that is written in Revelation as inevitable and Deterministic? Ever think about that? I do, I guess I’m really weird :smile:

There’s a lot more rattling around in my dome, but I’ll quit while I’m ahead.

 Posted by at 1:47 pm
Feb 242012
 

Former Calvary Chapel Visalia employee alleges theft, fraud and tax violations by Bob Grenier and Calvary Chapel Visalia.

Bob Grenier pastor of Calvary Chapel Visalia’s child abuse (confirmed in testimony by 24 year CCV Board member Glen C.) and allegations by Paul Grenier of molestation are well documented on this site. Following is a first person testimony from a former Calvary Chapel Visalia employee that alleges theft, fraud and tax violations.

“…when Bob goes on trips he takes cash from the church. What is suppose to happen is Bob or Gayle turn in receipts and the change after a trip.. What happens is they take the cash and there is no questions asked about how it is spent. This could be from $50 to $400. Also the Cafe is not paying taxes on food sales. As a food service it is suppose to collect and pay taxes they do neither. They also use the bookstores resale license to get their food orders and supplies.”

Paul Grenier testifies that he was the direct beneficiary of “expensive sunglasses” and many other items that were paid for out of the Calvary Chapel cash envelope. Paul says that spending the petty cash on personal items was a regular practice of Bob Grenier’s when they were on what was billed as Church business to Southern California and elsewhere.

Two other former Calvary Chapel employees, in addition to Paul’s testimony and the quoted testimony above, recount similar testimony of Bob Grenier playing fast and loose with the Church cash.

“The cafe really works at a loss. Salaries paid for cafe work come out of the general fund. Gayle gets paid, Susie gets paid and I think Kathie Smee, and there are a couple of others that get paid. Bob usually flies business but always trys to upgrade.”

“Salaries take over 50%. Besides salary, he gets book allowance, housing allowance and he gets an extra months pay for vacation. And then his car is paid for by the church. Insurance, gas, cleaning is all paid for by the church. There is i think about $1800 a month for pension. Missions there are about 20 different missionaries who get support from the church. Helping people part doesn’t happen often at all. I’m not good at percentages. The church grounds are now done in house so it’s just Josh and his helpers salaries. Some of these may have changed in the last eight months.”

The above information is corroborated by two other former employees (in part or in whole).

“One other thing I thought of. Susie supposedly gets paid for working in the Cafe, but it is really suppose to be salary for Greg. But they can’t pay Greg or it will mess up his disability.”

This is possibly the most serious allegation…it appears to be Disability Fraud. The information is corroborated by two additional former Calvary Chapel Visalia employees and is reported to be known by several others connected to Calvary Chapel Visalia.

“I have a few things to clear about a post of Paul’s. He was right about the credit card, Bob and Gayle have full use of the card with no approval needed. The checks always have needed two signatures on them. Also the church pays for Gayle’s and Greg’s cell phones. Greg also upgrades and buys supplies with no approval needed.”

These matters were reported to Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa and Roger Wing of CCOF. It is reported by sources that Roger Wing of CCOF did an audit (yet Chuck Smith claims Calvary Chapels are all 100% independent…if so, what is CCOF and Roger Wing doing performing an audit after receiving information of financial abuse allegations?).

What were the results of the audit? Was there any evidence that supports the Disability Fraud allegations? Any findings of theft and tax violations?

Has there been an attempt to cover up any of the issues divulged in the whistleblower’s testimony?

Calvary Chapel Visalia is a 501c3 and an Institution of Trust. Bob Grenier is also a Police Chaplain at the Visalia Police Department and the Tulare County Sheriff’s Department. Current Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Members include Brent Calvin, Dean of College of the Sequoias and Jeff Fly of Turning Point.

What do the Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Members know about these allegations? Raul Ries of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs, David Rosales of Calvary Chapel Chino Valley and Gary Ruff of Calvary Chapel Sun Valley were also Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Members during the time of these allegations. If the allegations are true, did they knowingly participate in any fraud or tax violation? Do these Pastors and Directors of separate 501c3 Corporations practice similar things?

 Posted by at 12:07 am
Feb 222012
 

An unScriptural view and practice of Loyalty is at the heart of Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel's Problem.

Dave Rolph made a statement on PhoenixPreacher the other day that validated my assumptions about something I’ve noticed not only in myself and others, but largely within the Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith Ethos.

Here is Rolph’s statement: “Much of these differences between the two men are generational. Chuck comes from a generation where soldiers have each others’ backs, no matter what. Loyalty is a fundamental and non-negotiable matter of character. Driscoll, on the other hand, comes from a generation of wikileaks, Abu Graib etc. where betrayal is a matter of practicality and political expediency. Collateral damage is assumed. So you sell people out “for the good of the organization” which really means “for the good of the leader.” There are certainly times when an old school leader acts with disloyalty, and a new school leader acts selflessly, but in general the approaches remain consistent. So older people can’t understand how Driscoll could sell out people who are loyal to him, while younger people are mystified as to why Chuck has the back of someone who is killing him. Anytime you think someone is acting crazy it is almost always because you don’t understand their culture.”

See that? Dave Rolph has struck the HEART of the Core Problem at Calvary Chapel. “Loyalty”…and often Blind Loyalty and Unjust Scales and the opposite of 1 Timothy 5:19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20 But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. 21 I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

I took my beef to the Top and I learned that it was not about Justice, the Truth, and a Righteous Judgment. Chuck Smith made it very clear that it was about kissing the ring, submission to his Program and Loyalty. When I didn’t play ball, I was marked a “Yappy Dog” and “Loose Cannon” and lied about from the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa Pulpit…by a man who professes to be “Anointed” and some sort of Spiritual Leader and Prophet who believes he had the Authority from God to spawn an entire Movement.

In private discussions with Michael Newnham of PhoenixPreacher, I had accurately diagnosed this human Problem and Dynamic…and I’ve realized that we all pretty much operate under the same or similar dynamic. I had forwarded a beef someone else had with one of Michael’s CC Pastor Buddies. I observed that our own behavior (mine included, see below) is heavily affected by these relationships and whether one is an Ally or Enemy. Loyalty plays a HUGE part in how we mete out Grace and Justice. It just is.

Following is a chain of communication with Michael (my comments only with name redacted to protect Michael’s CC Pastor friend):

Michael had questioned me about the source of the information. Here’s my response and my observations on “Loyalty: Allies and Enemies Dynamic”:

“The person is a woman. She is XXXXXXXXXXXXX (didn’t give him the name, but described her). I understand your loyalty to XXXX and I imagine it’s much the same dynamic in play with BG, Chuck and others etc. It really does come down to Allies and Enemies and Relationships. We are gracious to those we count as friends who have gone to bat for us and we are much less gracious to those who we don’t know, don’t like or have harmed us. That’s just human nature and the way things are.

I’m not knocking you for it. It’s human nature. It’s just how we are. It’s normal and not necessarily bad or evil, it just is. I know you would blow him up if he hurt kids.I am guilty of the same humanness BTW.There is a CC pastor and his son who I should blow up, but I’m having a hard time doing so. The son molested another boy years ago during their CC Affiliation process. The Pastor’s son was 3 years older and much bigger than the other boy. CCCM was made aware of it (CCOF as well) and they Affiliated anyway. The family got shunned, smeared, booted etc. However, the molesting CC Pastor’s son is now an adult and a Marine who just came back from Afghanistan and the CC Pastor is a Marine as well. I can’t blow them up, even though if I was to be consistent, I should.

And, I won’t blow up XXXX b/c you’re my friend and b/c you vouch for him, even though, to be consistent, I should.Politics, Business, the Church, etc is very very similar. I am learning the same lessons in Local Politics and Business…and as I continue to study History, this is endemic to Mankind. It’s our Nature.It is how guys like BG and SH survive massive scandal and how CS gets away with much of what he does. All part of the dynamic.

They have built a massive Wall of Friends, Allies, Alliances, etc and receive maximum Grace when they need it and the benefit of the doubt when they need it. Those loyal to them don’t question their motives and rarely their actions and when they do find something they don’t like, they extend maximum Grace and protect them and defend them. I would do the same for you and some others.

3 year age difference between the boys. 14 and 11. My bad. The Mother is considering a lawsuit, though, so that might take care of it. I am pointing her to Kelly Clark and Tim Kosnoff. More fun for CCCM.

“It’s not nature…it’s grace”: Sometimes. And, sometimes it’s an excuse to not do the right thing, which can be the hard thing.Hey, there are many times I wonder if I should have taken on Bob G and CC, etc. I probably could’ve leveraged that whole situation and played it much differently and benefited my family in a variety of ways. I would have been much more popular and opened many more doors having found a way to over-look that stuff and cozied up to the CC Establishment.

I hear you and again, none of this is directed at you…I am just expressing my inner thoughts to a trusted friend. Have a good day, Michael. I am feeling much less obligated to take on CC, but to focus on building my business and benefiting the family I have left. Politics is a weird animal. It’s much uglier than I imagined at the local level. There are “sides” even at the local level…and it is nearly impossible to be independent and “issue by issue” vs. Pick a Side. You are left alone and not trusted if you don’t stake a firm claim to a Team…and it’s very difficult to coalesce support and a Consensus when you are solo and both Camps don’t feel you are part of them.

I think U2 put it best: “You’re dangerous…b/c you’re honest…you’re dangerous, you don’t know what you want”. Maybe God’s done using me for that or maybe it was all just my flesh, dunno.”

I agree with Dave Rolph’s assessment of Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel Dynamic. Personal Loyalty often trumps truth, righteousness, equal scales and blind justice in the Calvary Chapel System.

I disagree with Dave Rolph about Mark Driscoll to a degree. I think Driscoll has issues, no doubt, however, Mars Hill sure did seem to give a Mea Culpa and fired or demoted some people who did the wrong thing…unlike their Market-Share Jesus, Inc. competitors and rivals, Calvary Chapel.

I also think that Dave Rolph’s articulation of Loyalty is sinful due to his reference to Wikileaks as being a bad thing. It is this mindset that is telling of the unScriptural view of Loyalty (a World’s definition and not God’s) that is the Core of the Calvary Chapel Problem.

It is good to hear a Big Name in Calvary Chapel be so candid and honest. I hope that sort of transparency continues. It is only when the Problem is accurately understood…that it can ever be truly repented of.

Bob Grenier’s view of Loyalty (and Raul Ries for that matter) is the same as Chuck’s. It is this twisted belief that leads to covering over sin, corruption and abuse and justifying the protection of it and the facilitation and enabling of it behind Loyalty…as if that type of Loyalty is a Christian Virtue.

Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel’s version of Loyalty leads to Senior Pastors and Allies of Chuck Smith, Raul Ries and other Big Guys in the CC System getting away with child abuse, molestation, corruption, spiritual abuse and so much other bad stuff.

It is a denial of Scripture that speaks to Justice, Just Scales and Church Discipline that doesn’t show “partiality” or “favoritism” and the direct Command of Paul the Apostle here with such strong language it leaves no wiggle room even for the smoothest of CC spinmeisters and Scripture deniers:

1 Timothy 5:19-22

Again, I can’t hold that Standard and shouldn’t be a Pastor and Spiritual Leader. It’s hard to put Loyalty aside and do the right thing when it comes to an Ally. Much easier to blast away at an Enemy or someone you don’t know. I get Chuck Smith, Bob Grenier and Calvary Chapel’s “Loyalty” Construct when it comes to Business, Politics, heck even the Mafia. I don’t get it when it comes to Spiritual Matters and the Office of Pastor/Elder as it is in direct opposition to Scripture…and I would assume that a Brand that professes to “teach the bible simply!”…that they view the Scripture as Authoritative. I could be wrong.

My Conclusion is that Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel are little different than what I see in Business and Politics…a.k.a. the World.

 Posted by at 8:46 am
Feb 202012
 

Right now the voices are saying, "Hamburger...with fries".

OK, it’s pretty much a straight copy of PhxP…but I like the premise.

1. I’m pretty sure Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa loses the Idaho Child Molestation Lawsuit (or settles and pays out some BIG bucks). I got clarification, my source now tells me it is Calvary Chapel Rathdrum that is suing the parents of one of the Calvary Chapel Child Molestation Victims and not CCCM, though there is some question as to whether CCCM is consulting on it or is in communication with Rathdrum about the suit. When I have the suit, I’ll post it. I’m sure CCCM would be upfront and answer some questions for clarification…or probably not. Maybe we can get Chuck Smith on his home phone again and see if he thinks it’s kosher that a Calvary Chapel is suing the Molestation Victim’s parents (as if they haven’t been through enough already). Maybe Chuck can remind me of “what the Bible says about forgiveness, it says an awful lot about that!” I’m fairly convinced it’s not very Christian-like for a Calvary Chapel to be suing the parents of the Calvary Chapel Child Molestation Victims, but I’d have to defer to the High Holy Profit Chuck Smith on that one…

2. Mike Macintosh, Raul Ries, David Rosales and some other Calvary Chapel Glitteratti will be rubbing shoulders and giving their endorsement for confirmed Child Abuser and alleged Child Molester Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia. They are attending Bob’s Event this week, details here: http://www.ccvisalia.com/resources/events-at-calvary.html Might be a surprise in store, we’ll see… ;-) They all know of the allegations of Molestation and the corroboration and admission of Child Abuse to Bob’s Board (which included Ries and Rosales). They simply could care less. Paul the Apostle speaks to this stuff here: 1 Corinthians 5, but that’s just the bible and doesn’t apply if you’re buddies with the abuser…it’s business as usual.

3. Our FED (Federal Reserve) has been successful in helping the US avoid a Great Depression II by selling the Car Crash and buying the Cancer. They won a key battle in the Economic World War III Currency War we’ve been in…unfortunately, we will lose the war thanks to their over-reaching. Details of “why” are here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/alex-joye-grenier/economic-wwiii-currency-wars-the-fed-won-the-battle-but-weve-all-lost-the-war-a-/279741358760893 The end result will be a World Central Bank and new World Reserve Currency supplanting the US Dollar as said WRC. It’ll happen in my lifetime. Before you cry “Conspiracy Theory!”…read the Note linked above with corresponding “in plain sight” data and corroboration.

4. I used to be an avid Baseball Fan, die-hard blue bleeding Dodger. Like with the Church, the business and money aspect of the Game has ruined it for me. Spring Training is almost here, and I could frankly care less. Mc”Bankruptcy”Court has gutted my team anyways.

5. Local Politics mirror Church Politics. I see virtually no difference. What does that say about the Church?

6. The US Military just cleaned out all of Federal Ammunition’s 5.56 ammo (according to a well-connected source in the Gun Industry). South Korea cleaned out PMC’s 5.56 ammo as well. Prelude to something? Just stocking up for no reason? Doubtful. We’ll see what happens…

7. With all the finger pointing going on in Presidential Politics and blame game for the sucky Economy… “It’s George Bush’s fault!”…”Barack Obama is a Socialist!”…etc etc…it always amazes me how illiterate most Americans are about how the Macro-Economy really works. The Office of President has very little to do with it. Our Economy is largely a function of the Federal Reserve (a.k.a. the FED) in cooperation with the Treasury Department and of course the powerful Big Corporate Lobbies and Wall Street/Big Corp/Big Bank System. Monetary Policy, Tax Law, Global Trade, so-called “Free Trade” and NAFTA have IMMENSELY more of an impact on High Unemployment, Stagnant Wages and Offshoring everything in sight, then who is President. The 2 Parties are not very far apart (outside of some Social Issues). GW Bush = Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson (Goldman Sachs). Barack Obama = Ben Bernanke and Tim Geithner (Goldman Sachs). Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The only candidate in the current Landscape who would push for meaningful “change” is Ron Paul.

8. I’ve been discussing a lot of things with Mormon friends. The more we talk, the more similarity I see in their End Times emphasis and their Dispensationalism and other dynamics as Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel. One difference, though, my Mormon friends are much nicer and more honest and seem to care more about people…and their Bishops get held accountable.

9. My Atheist friends still can’t resolve the dilemma: Only two choices for this Existence: 1. Infinite/Eternal Loop (Universe has always existed, no beginning, no first cause, and no end) or 2. An Uncaused Cause (something which is eternal with no beginning that is outside of all Closed Systems and has no cause) Caused the first stuff…and then the Chain of Causation took hold. No other option. Even M Theory asserts two Membranes collided causing our Universe. Where’d the two membranes come from? What caused them?

10. I’m not a big fan of cats. If it was legal, I’d hunt them. Make your own application :lol: (Wow, there are some cat lovers out there :smile: See that laughing thingy over yonder? That means I’m kidding. Lighten up folks :smile: )

 Posted by at 6:25 pm
Feb 192012
 

Grace, Mercy, Forgiveness...it's all conditional. Here's why...

Ever seen the movie Despicable Me?

Remember the parts where Gru goes “Light bulb!”

Well, I had one of those moments on Phoenixpreacher.net the other day.

I have participated in that Online Community (formerly more of a CC Watchdog Blog) for something like three years now. My participation has been a net positive or a complete nuisance depending on the half you poll over there. I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not your normal person. I’m one weird dude. My mind is always operating at multiple levels…all at the same time. Conversations trigger ongoing hashings out of particular topics or Philosophical Positions/Premises that I’m always testing, always gathering information to formulate a Conclusion.

However, there are other factors going on, I’m often expressing some honest (and blunt) reactions to certain things, I’m often defending a particular Position, I’m often interested in a particular issue that has to do with the topic at hand, but as it relates to the Calvary Chapel Situation (and often Bob Grenier more specifically). The angle is often connected to the topic at hand, but tends to be on the periphery with a few degrees of separation…and most don’t notice that nuance or could care less, they just want me to shut up and go away.

The last factor is: I’m a sinner and can be a jerk, especially when others pile on (and the Group Dynamics of that Community are pretty clear to me…I see the unwritten rules and know the people who have marked me as an Enemy and those who have marked me as an Ally and those who remain neutral and those who simply ignore me…this is typical Human Behavior, very predictable, very real, very normal).

The topic that just got me banned (and really I got banned for not following the unwritten rules, which is understandable and appropriate, I have well learned the Boundaries and I ventured outside the lines in taking over that thread and engaging the many who poked at me) was about showing Grace to a Bully.

This got my attention straight away…and, of course, my underlying interest was with regards to Bob Grenier (I know, shocker).

Now, mixed in with that issue was my Hypocro-Meter blaring like a horn in my ear, realizing that I’ve been judged by many on there as a sort of bully myself (though I would disagree and say that word is too strong, I consider a bully someone who beats up women and children, like Bob Grenier, but I’ll cop to say being a persistent jerk and taking over conversations or something like that).

“We must show GRACE to the bullies!” was the message.

My counter was, “We must uphold Justice and not let Bullies get away with their crap and we must keep a close eye on them!”

…and I made the point over and over until I got banned. Hey, it was some accountability and justice, which I’m all about.

Then, “Light bulb!”

Grace is entirely CONDITIONAL…both with regards to Human to Human relations and with regard to God to Human relations.

Where is there unconditional Grace? Show me? It ain’t there folks.

For instance, I must conform to the Group Dynamics and “Rules” of the PhxP Community or I (and others) get banned. It’s right. I agree with it. And, the others there would agree with it as well. At some point, the person who continues to offend, be a jerk, not follow the rules etc MUST change…or they face some accountability and justice, NO?

Likewise, if one doesn’t Confess, Repent and Believe…does God still forgive them and are they still saved? Nope. Not in the bible I read.

Grace is AVAILABLE, but it is entirely Conditional on our actions and behaviors and conformity and SUBMISSION to a set of Rules…both in Human to Human Relations and God to Human. Show me otherwise.

Which brings me to poor ‘ol victim Bob Grenier, the High and Holy Pastor of Calvary Chapel Visalia.

I’ve sat across the table from the Higher Holy Prophet, Chuck Smith himself, I’ve tussled with the Guru on the radio etc. I’ve asked for Justice and Accountability with Bob Grenier.

What’s Chuck’s answer? What’s CC’s answer? “What does God say about forgiveness?” etc etc. as a rationale for Chuck and CC’s Position to just “forgive” and “show Grace” etc etc.

Well, what if the person apologizes, but keeps repeating the same behavior again and again? What if the person claims repentance, but keeps repeating the same behavior again and again? Then what?

What if I kick Chuck in the nuts…and then apologize. “Hey, show me some Grace bro, I’m sorry”.

What if the very next day, I walk up and kick him in the nuts again. “Sorry dude, Grace me, Jesus wants you to forgive”.

…next day, foot…meet nuts.

And, so on and so forth.

Is Chuck Smith going to stand there and keep getting kicked in the nuts? Not likely. He’s going to want some justice and accountability, and rightfully so. He’s not going to keep extending Grace and Mercy and Forgiveness to me, when it is clear that while I may be saying the right words (“Sorry, I’ve repented”)…I really haven’t repented nor has anything changed, other than I get to keep kicking him in the nuts when he Graces me.

Bob Grenier is the nut kicker. Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel keep hiding behind the nonsense that Grace and Forgiveness is unconditional.

Truth is, Justice, Accountability, Submission to it and true Repentance is pre-requisite to Grace and Mercy and Forgiveness.

…in terms of Salvation and in terms of Human to Human relationship.

 Posted by at 7:58 pm
Feb 152012
 

The Presentation / Outline / Notes of Bob Grenier's Defense to the Calvary Chapel Visalia Board that included Raul Ries, Gary Ruff, David Rosales, Brent Calvin, Jeff Fly (and others) was leaked recently to CC Abuse. This is what happens behind the Calvary Chapel Curtain folks. If this is how "family" is treated, just think what Cannon Fodder you regular "giving unit" schmucks are.

Following is the text of the Outline/Notes of Bob Grenier Pastor of Calvary Chapel Visalia that he presented to his Board of Directors in response to my contacting the CCV 501c3 Board in 2009 with the allegations of Child Abuse, Financial Misconduct, Spiritual Abuse etc etc. The Board included Raul Ries Calvary Chapel Golden Springs, Gary Ruff Calvary Chapel Sun Valley, David Rosales Calvary Chapel Chino Valley, Brent Calvin Dean of C.O.S., Jeff Fly CEO of Turning Point and others.

Bob Grenier’s words are in Italics, my responses (Alex) are in Brackets and bolded.

He is trying to force reconciliation with his mother…….
He lost the relationship with his mother after he screamed and yelled at her calling her a hypocrite etc, etc………

[I did confront my Mom in our home on Border Links in Visalia about the child abuse that she let happen in our home growing up and I told her she should have protected us. It was very emotional. I was crying, she was crying. She softened. The next time I saw her, nearly 2 weeks later, she was like a robot. Bob got to her once again].

His rants and raves at that point are no different then what was stated in his first letter 4.5 years ago…..

[True, mostly. My story hasn't changed. It's been very consistent. I had confronted Bob privately years prior about the child abuse and Bob wouldn't cop to it and wouldn't acknowledge the sin, etc. He pushed me off on Greg and Sue Dowds, his main Elder Team, and they listened to my tear-filled long testimony and basically said, "So sorry, nothing can be done now, it's in the past, leave it to the Lord, don't harm the church, nothing good can come of this now, go your way and pray about it" etc etc. Basically CC 101 in protecting the Senior Pastor and laying the burden back on the Victim].

All of his efforts are in our opinion, motivated by the goal of reconciling with his mother. He thinks that he can make this happen through the means he has expressed….

[One of my goals was a relationship with my Mother, not reconciliation. I didn't need to be reconciled to her until Bob did his thing and manipulated her into an Either/Or "loyalty" Choice just like he did with me and my brother Geoff many years prior when Bob punched Geoff out and sent Geoff back east, kicking him out of our family...and blaming him for Bob's abusiveness. We were all told we couldn't talk to Geoff, couldn't communicate with him in any way, that he needed to suffer, etc and that we needed to be "loyal" to the family, etc. That's how Bob Grenier operates. He commits the sin and breaks the law and others are the bad guys and must suffer. My other goals were to hold Bob accountable for his actions, to get some justice in our situation and to warn the Church and public that Bob is a felony Child Abuser, a liar, steals from the church, etc etc. I found after confronting the CCV Board that Paul Grenier alleges Bob molested him as well as physically abused him].

He bullies his way around, and is trying bully us into his world……..

[The only way to deal with a bully like Bob Grenier is to hit him in the mouth. If I'm a "bully" then Bob Grenier is Adolph Hitler].

Historical perspective leading up to today..
Gayle and I….
We are, and intend to by God’s grace, and have served the Lord since we have been born again….
We have never turned away from following Him…….
All the years our children were living here we …
Followed the Lord…

[Gag. I just threw up in my mouth. Never turned away? How about when you went into your many rages and beat us, cursed at us, put Geoff in a small closet, kicked him when he was on the ground writhing in pain from appendicitis and you thought he was "faking" it, beat Geoff from head-to-toe with a branch from the mulberry tree, struck us in the face repeatedly, etc etc?

How about when a fellow Calvary Chapel Pastor caught you "stoned on pills" in the Philippines?

How about when you stole hundreds of dollars of petty cash from Calvary Chapel Visalia and bought personal items. Paul says Mom bought him a nice pair of expensive sunglasses at South Coast Plaza with money "from the church envelope" on a trip to SoCal (and many many more examples) and your former staff (several) all say you didn't turn in receipts often and had lame excuses. Heck, even Roger Wing told you to tidy that up during a CCOF Audit (I thought you guys are all "independent"...guess not Chuck Smith)...and you still wouldn't turn in receipts routinely according to former staff.

How about when Paul says you molested him? What about that? Did you molest him? When Paul told Amy many years ago that you made him gay...don't you find that pretty concerning? Amy thought he meant because you physically abused him and were a domineering controlling prick...only to find out that he says you molested him. Is it "no big deal" like your homosexual experience you describe in your book "A Common Miracle" that you had with another boy who touched you in boarding school? "Happens all the time" or something like that according to you in your own words in your book? Personally, I think you're a freak and have done far worse than even I am aware of. You certainly can lie with a straight face (pardon the entendre, it was intended)].

During the years our children lived here..
They gradually and progressively lived a double life……

[Coming from the KING of Double Life himself. You are a such a lying hypocrite. It's amazing you haven't been struck by lightening. You are a testament to God's graciousness you weasel].

And, we do not condemn them for the way they lived……

[Cough, cough, b.s., cough cough. You are one of the most condemning a-holes to have ever walked this planet. I saw you do it to so many people so many times over the years behind the scenes].

this is what happens when you are not saved……..

[Bob must be God Himself, he just judged our Salvational Status. Remarkable, he is Jesus Christ in the flesh. Interesting Standard Bob is using. Um, help me out here, Raul Ries and Chuck Smith are "saved" would you say? Do I need to list all the bad stuff they've done and much recently? How about Don Stewart? John Higgins? Skip Heitzig? Do I need to trot out the CC Adultery List? How about Dino Cardelli and Chris Olague? Jimmy Kempner? (So very many more...long long list...bad bad stuff).

And, I can write a book (or a blog?) on the long list of your sins and skeletons. Seems "saved" people do bad stuff too, even "saved" people who are supposed to be Qualified for Ministry per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and aren't Pastors held to a "stricter judgment" etc? Nah, that's just the Bible, LOL, it's not from Bob's Mouth. Bob, if you are "saved" then anyone can be saved, and they can do whatever sin they want, just sayin'].

Alex, just admitted he got saved in May of 09….

[I may have, or I may have been "saved" prior to that and was backslidden (if there is such a thing) or not following the Lord as closely as now. Or, I wasn't saved. Something happened though around that time that resulted in a besetting sin being all the way dealt with (so far) from that time forward. I still sin in other areas though. Maybe, Bob, you can tell me how you do it...you know...how you've achieved sinless perfection Post-saved? It's amazing how Sanctified you are. On the other hand, I know you're a liar and have witnessed a lot of your sinful ways (as have many many others) so you're full of b.s. You aren't Spiritually Qualified to be the Janitor at Calvary Chapel, let alone a Pastor/Elder].

I certainly don’t see the fruit of the Spirit in his life before then, and certainly not since then…….

[Ditto there chief. The only time I saw any fruit out of you Bob was when you turned on the charm in public and then it was Wax Fruit].

There was a time in our lives that we were not saved either……..

[Like yesterday? LOL. Again, Bob, if you're truly "saved" then the bar is very very low].

But, the fact is, that while we lived for, and served the Lord, they did not…..

[Bob, the only person you've served is YOURSELF. I know Jesus (I think) and I never witnessed you serving Him. Your man kingdom? Yes, saw lots of you serving that. Your selfishness? Lots of you serving that. Your pride and ego? Tons of you serving that, etc.].

The trouble with Geoff and myself…
He was a rebellious child. He at some point began using steroids…

[Geoff was within the range of normal and it wasn't his fault you have anger issues and are a child abuser. You're responsible for your own sin Bob. Quit blaming a kid who you were trusted to care for as father and pastor. They should have locked you up for what you did to him (and us). But, like with your Drug Smuggling and Drug Dealer days (that you describe in your own words in your book) you got away with another crime. Me and a CC Pastor Friend call you the "Teflon Jedi"...you keep getting away with being a scoundrel and you have a way of manipulating and lying and spinning people that is both legendary and infamous].

The rest of what happened between him and I is history…

[Ya, history you'd like to rewrite or erase].

Amy XXXX enters the picture…..
She sought almost from the start to dislodge our son Alex from the relationship we had with him……

[She was from a normal God honoring non-abusive family and our complete dysfunction and your controlling prickness jumped out at her in stark contrast to her good home].

Which had been a pretty good one, it was in fact a relationship…….etc…

[I wouldn't go nearly that far. I drank your Kool-aid, I was afraid of you, I was manipulated into believing your "Prophet" Status and didn't want to "Touch God's Anointed" etc and I was under your spell. It was like Stockholm Syndrome and Jonestown all mixed together].

We began realizing that she and her entire family, were gossips and backbiters……

[Nice, the "Gossip!" Card. Smear Amy's family who is light years better than our family will ever be. Typical tactic, "they're gossips and backbiters!" CC 101. Well, you're a child abuser, molester, thief, liar, drug abuser, glutton, jerk etc.].

We warned Alex, over and over again to beware of all this……

[You tried to create distance between me and Amy's family when you realized you couldn't con them].

Following Alex and Amy’s marriage….
Alex caved into her way of thinking and living…

[I realized Amy was right about you Bob. It took a long time for me to come out of your spell, it happened in steps and progressions, just like many others are now experiencing. I see you clearly for who and what you are].

Our relationship with Alex, grew strained and extremely difficult….

At one point when talking to Alex about his faith in Christ…….
he told me he never wanted me to talk to him about Christ….

[Yes, Bob, you were the last person on the planet I wanted to get preached at by. You are a monumental hypocrite and abuser and it made me uncomfortable (nearly nauseous) hearing you talk about Jesus to me. Not because I didn't want to hear about Jesus, but because you were such an example of the opposite of Jesus and you were such an evil and destructive person in my life. I sought out guys like Jim Souza and Ron Story and others to talk to about Jesus, as I saw they resembled the Jesus I read about in Scripture].

Paul’s turning away from his faith in Christ. His announcement of that to us. His fall into drugs drinking, living away from our home…

[Paul says he took prescription pills (many of them Grandma Ruth's) often with you and Mom and that he and Mom drank wine together often. Paul knew the drill. When he was in the family he played your game until you got abusive with him again].

He eventually asked if he could come back and live at home….

[Yes, he did. It must have been terrible on him to have to go back to you, but when you are in those college years and trying to have a roof over your head, food, a vehicle etc it's tough. You knew he needed you for support and you wielded that support like a weapon and a puppet string].

As time went on…
Geoff got married and divorced. Used cocaine alot…
Beat his wife up….
Was a fornicating ( still is ) scoundrel…

[Oh, ya, I forgot, Geoff's the bad guy and the scoundrel, not you. You are such a manipulative snake-tongued shifty bastard. It is amazing that you aren't consumed by worms this moment. God truly is merciful and long-suffering. Maybe your intense abusiveness and destructiveness toward Geoff all those years had something to do with Geoff's self-destructive behavior? I'm guessing...yes, a lot to do with it].

Again, no condemnation, we understand that is what sinful people do…….

[Oh, yes Bob, no condemnation at all...you're just having to state the facts, got it].

What he told me before his wedding. No Bible Crap in the ceremony….

Paul announced that he was gay. [Could it be because you molested him?] We accepted him. Even gave him a job at the church office. Helped put him through COS, and Fresno State….

[Yes, and Jerry Sandusky was very nice to his Victims as well, as long as they kept the Secret].

To the tune of $15,000.00 Paul gave Jesus the middle finger..

[You deserved the middle finger, both of them (and much more than that)...Paul was giving YOU the middle finger as you were the self-professed Representative/Prophet of Jesus in his life].

Alex and Amy grew apart. Alex at one point was thinking of divorcing her.

[We had our problems early in marriage. Most of it was my sinfulness and some of it was your terrible advice and influence. You, Bob, are the one who tried to convince me I could and should divorce her..."let the unbeliever depart" is what you said. You didn't like her because you couldn't con her and manipulate her like so many others. You even called a CC Pastor friend of yours to try and talk him into it. He told you that you were wrong. You were convinced I was "saved" when I went with your Program, yet now you say "He never showed any fruit that would tell me he was saved". You sure thought I was saved when I attended your Church and drank the Kool-aid].

Alex made money like it was going out of style….

[True dat. First 100% factual thing you've stated in this note].

We helped get his business going To the tune of $10,000.00…..

[It was $5,000 and it was a loan. I was late on ONE PAYMENT and you FREAKED out at my first home on Center Street. You came back later and said it was causing stress in the relationship so you forgave the balance of the loan. I don't remember how much was left, but assuming it was most of the $5,000, thanks. Appreciate it. I'd refund the 5 G's for a God-honoring loving childhood (like my kids are having) in a heart beat].

We took out a second on our home…..

[Doubtful, you probably took it from the Church monies].

Eventually the strain was unbearable. Rude and hateful attitudes from Amy……

[Rude and hateful? Honest and real and at times disgusted by your attitude and actions and hypocrisy].

Paul driving a new honda we had bought for him to use…

[Yes, Jerry Sandusky was nice to his Victims as long as they kept the Secret. You did a whole lot of nice things for Paul as I remember. Seemed like you were always buying him stuff and trying to keep him happy. Now you're doing the same thing to Robert / Bobby Jr. whereas before you needed Bobby Jr. as Cover, you put him in the Visalia Rescue Mission and when Bobby Jr. was admitted to Cypress Mental Health for "hearing voices" and expressing suicidal thoughts, you made Mom leave for vacation to Whistler Canada THE VERY NEXT DAY, even though she called Amy sobbing and saying she wanted to stay with her baby boy. You are truly a selfish bastard].

The missing drugs. Asking Paul… The next day… That night, i.e the Thurs nite.

[Yes, you accused Paul of stealing 10 of your Ambien Sleeping pills that you were hooked on (probably still are). You've been getting "stoned on pills" since the 1980's that we know of (according to a current CC Pastor who witnessed it and you admitted it to him). Paul didn't steal your precious pills and you treated him terribly and crossed the lines into being mentally and verbally abusive during that episode and I wasn't going to stand by silently and let you do your thing any longer in our home].

Paul severed his relationship with us…..
It became apparent to us that Alex and Paul had been in cahoots together. We had asked Alex to help us, only to find out he was an adversary. It was that night that the switch flipped in my mind and heart….

[I was intervening and standing up to you and your abusiveness within our family. I had had enough and wasn't going to allow you to mistreat Paul that way and I was afraid you were going to lose your temper and get physical again with him as well. I was now a grown man, had resolved enough to not let it happen any longer and I stood up to you. I was an adversary of your sinfulness and abusiveness in our family].

I realized what had been going on all this time, and was only now seeing it for the first time….
Two weeks later, the explosion to his mother…..

[You tried to manipulate me and steer me back into the fold and offered me more Kool-aid. You were wrong for mistreating Paul and I wouldn't let you spin me this time and I began confronting the past Child Abuse in our home].

At that point.. Gayle tried to keep seeing XXXXX (Granddaughter). Soon, that became threatening.

[Our door was always open to Mom and she was encouraged to visit her granddaughter. She was not threatened in any way. You are the one who used to drag her to the back bedroom and lock the door and then scream at her (and who knows what else). Geoff says he saw you smack her around. Paul says he saw you on top of her choking her one time. You, Bob, shared a story from the Calvary Chapel Pulpit of how you lost your temper and broke a chair (putting a gash in the popcorn ceiling when you raised it over your head and then smashing it into the floor breaking it into pieces). That scared Mom and us to death and was a mild episode compared to many others where you hurt us physically. You thought it was a big joke. We kids and my Mom were scared of you as you looked and acted demon-possessed in your many rages].

She stopped seeing her…

[My Mom softened when I first confronted the Child Abuse, then she got reprogrammed by Bob and went back into Robot Mode. She stopped coming to visit her granddaughter soon after].

A few months later we got the letter. Since that time we have never said a word to them…….

[Bob said he wouldn't talk to me any longer in person (since I wouldn't back down and insisted on a Matthew 18 process) and told me to put my grievances in a letter and to go see the Dowds. I've learned this is Calvary Chapel Standard Operating Procedure (but they're all "independent"? Just coincidence I guess...eh, Chuck?]

And now… Alex, who has given into his wife, and allowed his brother Paul to link up with him, realized that he has lost a relationship with his mother…..

[I knew when I stood up to Bob Grenier, he'd hurt me with the last thing he could...a relationship with my Mom. I had to count the costs].

And continues to try and pressure us to admit to things we never have done,

[Glen C., a 24 year Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Member, has come forward with testimony that Bob Grenier admitted to what the State of California calls Felony Child Abuse to the Calvary Chapel Visalia Board on or around 1988. Bob did his usual spin and lying and tried to minimize the abuse in our home and placed the blame for his actions on Geoff. The Board was still obligated to report the crime (Bob admitted to punching Geoff in the face) and the Board didn't report it to authorities, but rather covered it up. Bob got away with it. I want Bob to admit to what he did. I have accurately described in "the letter" many of the things he did in fact do, and one of the serious things is corroborated by Bob's own admission to the Board. Bob is a liar. He's caught in this BIG lie per Glen's testimony].

( so that Alex does not have to admit to the way he has lived, and what he has allowed his wife to do, and his brother Paul etc, )

[Hey, I've copped to my sins. I copped to a very big one when I started taking this on publicly. I am not Qualified to be a Pastor and I don't want to be one. It is truly a high calling and if you aren't Qualified per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, you should be on the other side of the Pulpit. I'm a lot of things, but I am not a pastor, I am not a child abuser, I don't steal from the church and spiritually abuse people etc etc. And, this isn't about me or Geoff or Paul. We've been well "punished" for our perceived sins (by Bob). This is about a Pastor and father who has been terribly abusive to so many people over the years...and no accountability and no justice has been served and there has been no confession and repentance on Bob's part].

Alex has been bullying his way around on the internet, and is now trying to bully our board at Calvary Chapel……..

[Again, when "dealing with devils" and rolling around with pigs, sometimes you have to get muddy. Bob is the KING of bullies. I am calling on a California Non-Profit Corporation's Board to deal with their CEO. I am calling on a Calvary Chapel Board to deal with its Pastor. There is a "bully" in this saga, and his name is Bob Grenier. I don't beat women and children].

What’s bothering him is he has no relationship with his mother.. He told her, he could live without one with me, but never her……he could not live if he did not have one with her…

[I do miss my Mom, but it's like a death, the pain gets less with time. I can, in fact, live fine (and better) without a relationship with Bob (in his unrepentant lying state). I never said I couldn't "live" (if Bob is spinning something and hinting at something and I'm sure he is) without my Mom. I can live without her, but I'd rather have her in my life like other normal Sons and Mothers. But, Bob has gotten away with destroying that relationship and blaming it on everyone else but the true culprit in all of this...him].

 Posted by at 8:55 pm
Feb 122012
 

John Higgins Pastor of Calvary Chapel Tri-City in Arizona. He looks like such a nice guy, doesn't he? The Thugonomics Expose pulls the curtain back on the unseemly side of Higgins' history, practices and Legacy.

Here’s Part 2 of what looks to be a long series on Thugonomics: John Higgins and Calvary Chapel.

Click the link to access the continuation of the Expose series: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/we-are-the-remnant/2012/02/12/thugonomics-john-higgins-and-the-house-of-miracles-p2#.TzfaY0pqtXQ.facebook

“The House of Miracles was a series of Christian communal houses established during the early Jesus Movement under the auspices of Pastor Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, California. The House of Miracles was the group from which sprang the largest (and one of the longest lasting) of the Jesus People communal groups, the Shiloh Youth Revival Centers, which had 100,000 members and 175 communal houses spread across the United States and Canada during its lifespan.

On May 17, 1968 John Higgins,Sr. and Lonnie Frisbee opened the first House of Miracles in Costa Mesa on 19th St. There were nineteen houses eventually involved as Houses of Miracles throughout California: one each in Costa Mesa, Corona, Downey, Lompoc, Garlock, Long Beach, Muscoy, Oxnard, Pacific Grove, Ridgecrest, Southgate and Whittier; two houses apiece in Fontana, Riverside and Santa Ana; and one in Phoenix, AZ. All gradually closed throughout 1969 and 1970 as members moved to Oregon to form Shiloh Youth Revival Centers: the last House of Miracles (in Oxnard) closed in July 1970.” –Courtesy of Wikipedia.

 Posted by at 8:48 pm