Bob Grenier gave a long angry rant from the Calvary Chapel Visalia pulpit just prior to the judge’s lower court ruling in which he claims he’s innocent of all the allegations against him and that he’s been vindicated by the local authorities and Calvary Chapel.

It’s been a little while since the lower court judge’s ruling in the Calvary Chapel Bob Grenier lawsuit against me (his step-son and former long-time Calvary Chapel Kool-Aid Drinker) and Tim Taylor (a former CC’ite as well).

The ruling, in my opinion, was rather bizarre. I’ve heard good things about the judge, but I’m pretty sure he’s human and capable of being influenced and/or error. From chewing on the verdict and the evidence presented by both sides in court, I can only assume he latched onto one particular piece of evidence that was intentionally (my opinion) presented out of context by Grenier’s attorney Nick Pritchett.

They published a quote of mine making a comment in essence “do the ends justify the means? Dunno…” and this seems to be the tidbit Vortmann latched onto in claiming he could divine my heart, intent, motive and that I had “serious doubts” about my belief in Paul Grenier’s (my brother) testimony to me where he alleges Bob Grenier molested him.

The truth is that if the judge (or whoever) reads the entire comment (which was not presented by Pritchett) and the thread and the back-and-forth, it is 100% non-debatable fact that the comment was made with regards to my outing the testimony of long-time Calvary Chapel Visalia Elder and Board Member Glen Cardaronella’s testimony. Glen asked me to give the testimony to Chuck Smith Sr. only and did not give me permission to publish the scathing testimony that documented many of the abuses at Calvary Chapel Visalia (according to his take). I published Glen’s testimony and that comment above (that is in evidence) was directly connected to Glen Cardaronella (read the thread, it’s very clear). And, to be crystal clear, I had no “serious doubts” in Cardaronella’s testimony, I believed and still believe him to be a credible source and witness. The comment was in response to push-back that it was wrong to out his testimony publicly without his permission. I felt it served the Greater Good to enter the testimony into the public discussion. The only way that comment could be misapplied, misinterpreted and mis-construed is to take it out as a snip-it (like Pritchett did) and then make a giant leap assumption that it was somehow connected to my belief in Paul Grenier’s testimony to me.

The fact remains that Paul told me about his allegations and I believe him. I don’t have Bob on video doing it, it doesn’t mean I “entertained serious doubts” or whatever nonsense was speculated. I have good reason not to believe Bob Grenier, due to my direct personal experiences of his actions and behaviors toward me and others and his subsequent lying about what he did to me and what I witnessed in our home. I have no reason to disbelieve my brother Paul and I have the right to believe him and the right to speak the truth about it as I know it and to warn others about a public figure in a Position of Trust. It would be wrong of me to stay silent and not speak up with regards to such a serious allegation. I think the ruling was dangerous and irresponsible and a real set-back for the First Amendment and Anti-SLAPP legislation in California. If it’s upheld, it will put a huge chill in the air and set California back quite a ways with regard to protecting free speech and warning the public about public figures who do bad things. It will endanger children and cause Victims of child abuse to fear retaliation by frivolous lawsuits meant to silence and intimidate and re-abuse.

Pritchett may have fooled the lower court judge, I am hopeful the Appellate Court judges won’t be so easy to Lawyer and/or influence. It is well known that Visalia is a small town good ‘ol boys club…has been for years. It’s a tight-knit community and Bob Grenier has paid his dues politically. To claim there is absolutely no dynamic in play there is naive. I don’t claim it’s 100% in play, but to dismiss it as a serious possibility and “some” influence is, again, naive.

Bob Grenier, prior to the ruling, went on quite a screed at one of his morning services at Calvary Chapel Visalia.

I was sent a dvd Bob made, sent to me by a CCV’er. This person wishes to remain anonymous. This person was quite concerned by the tone and content.

I stomached as much as I could. It was disgusting. Bob was angry, vicious, mean, hateful, vindictive…basically all the things he and his Camp and Calvary Chapel have accused me and others of. Bob wasn’t unilaterally forgiving anyone, nor was he “leaving it to the Lord” or extending any sort of grace. He was, metaphorically, spitting fire and madder than a drug addict who is jonesing and can’t find his next fix.

Basically Bob said he’s got a stack of lawsuits ready, he’s going to sue everyone, blah, blah, blah. “What would yyyyoooouuuuu do?” etc etc. He said he’s going to fight and sue and sue some more (in essence) and you could hear a couple of amens in there from the Christians* there.

A particular low-point, Bob was taking pleasure, and even pausing for maximum effect, when dishing the dirt on one of his former employees and whistleblowers…touting how this person fell morally. I could see the venom dripping from Bob’s tongue in my mind’s eye. Here’s a sitting Calvary Chapel Pastor, a man who represents himself as “specially anointed” and an emissary of Jesus Christ…taking pleasure in publicly expressing this non-public non-pastor figures moral turn (largely due to disillusionment in this person’s experience with Bob and Calvary Chapel). I know Bob and Calvary Chapel don’t really believe the Millstone verses in the bible or they would act differently, so I doubt there is a Millstone, but what an evil bastard, no “transformation” there, no “unilateral forgiveness” there….that’s for suckers. You cross Bob and Calvary Chapel and they want blood and money! And, Chuck Smith’s got his back! Woohoo! Praise Jesus*!

Bob’s rant included his version of some things which I don’t necessarily believe. A couple of things I do tend to believe and acknowledge: Detective Brian Haney investigated and didn’t arrest Bob, so I’m assuming the stuff that was reported to him by former CCV employees (before I communicated with Haney) must be OK to do and the practices must be legit, even though I thought they were wrong. I was told by a City of Visalia insider that there was going to be an arrest, but at the last minute something happened. If this is true, I find that interesting.

If you are a church or business you may want to look into what the employees were alleging and do similar to Bob and CCV as the Authority in Bob’s area says he’s good to go, so why not take advantage?

Bob said from the pulpit publicly that Detective Haney told him he could quickly see it was a smear campaign (or something similar to that). Detective Haney, did you say that? Really? You think the former employees were lying and making the stuff up to smear Bob? That the testimonies I gave you were all lies and part of a smear campaign? If what Bob is reporting is accurate, I don’t understand Haney’s conclusion. I thought the stuff reported to me was wrong and the sources were bookkeepers, pastors, elders, board members, employees and family members. But, I have to accept the Authority in Tulare County’s verdict. They looked at the same stuff I looked at and say Bob did nothing wrong. Shocking to me, but it is what it is and I’ll make sure to refer to the specifics of that case if I’m ever held to a different Standard. I’d encourage you to do the same if you find yourself in the cross-hairs there in Tulare County for financial stuff. It’s not as black and white as I thought.

Bob also stated that he’s been investigated in some form by Calvary Chapel (but I thought Chuck Smith Sr. said they are all 100% independent and that Calvary Chapel has no Central Authority and oversight and responsibility and control etc, then who the heck did an investigation? The Church Investigation Fairy? By what authority did they do an investigation and render some sort of judgment if they are all independent? What did they investigate? Who did they talk to? I haven’t been contacted by anyone from Calvary Chapel in that capacity and I haven’t heard that others connected to the Bob CCV situation have either. If they did do some sort of investigation, it was behind closed doors and news to me. I guess I have to take Bob’s word for it (from my interpretation of what I heard on the dvd).

Basically, Bob says he’s good to go per Calvary Chapel and per the Tulare County law enforcement community. Bob basically says everyone’s lying and out to smear him in an attempt to take down his “ministry” and that only God can remove him and no one else will. He says he’s innocent and has done nothing wrong and has been vindicated (or something to that effect) and that he’s going to fight and sue and get his vengeance until the “bitter” end. But I thought…err, um, Chuck Smith Sr. said to…err, um, “get over it”, “leave it to the Lord”, “forgive”, “love” etc. I’m very confused. Seems quite a double-standard. One set of rules for the sheep, another set of rules for the shepherds. No public rebuke by Chuck Smith Sr. from the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa pulpit telling Bob he is in greater sin for “unforgiveness” and for being bitter and vindictive etc.

I can’t really argue with the results of Haney’s investigation (which I assume is as Bob stated) and I can’t really argue with Calvary Chapel’s continued endorsement of Bob as a Calvary Chapel Pastor in good standing. I tried to call attention to the serious issues and to warn folks and to get the Powers that Be to do something. Apparently they did and found Bob Grenier clean as the wind driven snow (according to him). I disagree, but I’ve done all I can do as a law abiding citizen. We are a nation of laws with rule of law (in general) and while there are gaps in the System, it is what it is and sometimes guys get away with stuff. I’m not happy about it, but that’s life in ‘Merica today.

I still find it quite ironic that when Bob exposed Phil Aguilar for abuse and corruption allegations, Bob got the keys to Visalia. When I expose Bob, he gets the keys to Visalia. Interesting, no? I’m guessing the skills Bob learned while (according to his book) smuggling and dealing drugs while flying the Lt. Governor of Florida around have served him well in his Career as Pastor/Chaplain. I tip my cap to you Bob, you’re good at what you do. Well played sir. You should run for office…but you’d have to take a pay cut.

The appeals process will play out. Bob retained a Fresno attorney, according to sources. They tell me his name is Todd Baxter. Todd, welcome to the dysfunction, hopefully you’re honorable and don’t twist things like Pritchett did (but, hey, as long as the bills get paid right? I mean right?)

I hope we win in Appeals. From what I’ve been told about the Anti-SLAPP laws and the First Amendment laws, I don’t see how a three judge panel will divine that we had serious doubts about our belief in Paul’s testimony and the testimony of the many other bookkeepers, pastors etc at the time we made our comments. I find that such a bizarre and radical position, “shocking” as our attorneys described it to me, but I was wrong about the lower court judge, somehow he was able to see it Camp Bob’s way.

I don’t feel compelled to continually beat the drum with regards to Paul’s allegations as the local authorities and the Church are well-aware of the allegations and I found out toward the end of the lower court proceeding that Paul does in fact have recourse through the Criminal Justice System due to a loophole in California’s sexual abuse laws with regards to statute of limitations. In essence, Paul can still seek justice through that route.

Regardless of what Bob does from here, like Tony Stark said to Loki, there is no version of this where you come out on top. Pay your hired assassin attorneys with that fresh Jesus money. I’m sure the folks who gave the money to Jesus* intended it to fund your lawsuits…not.

LOL, you’re much more of Universalist and Liberal (in the Christian context) than you have the courage to admit publicly. I’m much more in that Camp these days and I can amen your CC buddy’s good works and Good Samaritanism and the good works of Atheists, Catholics, Mormons, 100th Degree Masons, though I don’t trust Muslims.

Again, the underlying point to me was the Conservative/Fundamentalist vs. Universalist/Liberal attitude and I was trying to show you that reality in your article and subsequent comments, but you take it, primarily, as a shot at CC. No. It was primarily showing you the Universalism and Liberalism in your article and example in your comments affirming good works no matter who it is doing them.

In my search for Truth I look to actions as expressions of true doctrine/theology. You’re much more Liberal than you think (as evidenced by the amens from Muff and brian). I think that’s good and affirms some of my personal suspicions about what is true and what isn’t. That was the point, your handling of this particular issue is teaching (though it contradicts some of your hard-line Fundamentalist/Conservative expressions, which you don’t really believe, not in practice, which is a good thing IMO).

Selective Fundamentalists pick and choose which sins are taboo and to Law vs. which sins are to Grace. They Taliban what they don’t like and Liberal what they do like. No one truly applies a “simple” reading of the bible, not nearly…and they shouldn’t.

Hey, what’s up. Hope you’ve been well.

Me? Been a little disillusioned and pretty much questioning the faith, the “Church” our System and pretty much just pissed off in general over how easy it is for guys like Bob Grenier (my step-dad and my former pastor at Calvary Chapel Visalia) to get away with their bullshit and to actually turn the tables on those they’ve wronged. I accept this garbage in Business and Politics…I have had a hard time accepting that an active, present “God” would allow it to happen in the “church” and by those who claim “special anointing” etc without him opening a sink-hole and swallowing them into the bowels of the planet.

I’m a life-long student of humanity (until I croak or go insane or go vegetable) and I’ve learned a TON in the last few years about homo sapiens (not to be confused with homo erectus…not to be confused with an excited George Takei…”Oh my!”).

Here’s what I’m learning: The Mafia is smarter than you think. They understand (and leverage) humanness. Politics, Business, Religion/Church: It’s about “loyalty”, influence, building political relationships, affiliations, money…all which lead to power…and often lead to get-out-of-jail-free cards and the benefit of the doubt (or the plausibility of being able to extend the benefit of the doubt) in a variety of situations (often in a law enforcement context or System context including “the Church” and Civil Authority).

It’s not about Truth and it’s not about Right and Wrong and it’s not about Blind Justice and Equal Scales. You can, in fact, tip the scales…and the majority of those who have power in our System do…and do it effectively and often. One needs look no further than the current political scandals in the headlines. There’s a different set of rules and enforcement in play depending on who you are, who you’re connected to, how much money you have and which “side” you’re on. If you’re on a “side”…you’ve got a chance. Rules and “justice” generally only apply to the regular schmucks who can’t claim ignorance or “amend” their “mistake”…who can’t claim tax software screwed up their return…who can’t parse what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is. Nope. Regular folks must be perfect, must recall perfectly, must make perfect statements, etc or the full weight of the law is on them…very similar to how Church Authority works as well.

Hard-line Law and Justice for the powerless…Antinomian Grace and benefit-of-the-doubt as a shield for the powerful. Politics, Business, Church…no difference.

Are there exceptions to these “rules”? Of course there are, I’m painting in broad-brush generality. There are some folks in society and in the System who buck this overwhelming dynamic and do the right thing no matter what. You see glimpses of this counter-cultural ethos in Whistleblowers, politicians like Gary Johnson and Ron Paul, businessmen like Simon Lee (he gives away half his profits to help the poor) and Church leaders like…um, you know, like…um…err.

I’m sure there are some good Church leaders out there who are popular and well-known. Franklin Graham, there’s a good one! He serves Jesus! He does so much for God! He’s one who really counts the costs and sacrifices for the Lord. What? He made $1.2 million in 2008 from “serving” Jesus? You’re kidding me, that can’t be right. Oh? It is documented fact? http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2009/10/franklin_graham_moves_to_addre.html OK, he’s agreeing to a pay cut? http://www.newsobserver.com/2009/10/08/131524/evangelist-agrees-to-reduced-benefits.html That’s better, now he’s reportedly making over $500,000 a year in total compensation (for Jesus of course) instead of $1.2 million.

I think I feel “called” to Franklin’s Graham’s position and huge salaries, thank you Jesus! Where do I sign up for that sacrificial self-less Jesus ministry?

BTW, good job in having him speak at the CCSPC 2013 Amway Convention Calvary Chapel. Put another millionaire up there for the 1,400 CC water toter small-time pastors to suck up and aspire to. Point is, don’t buy the bullshit. CC pastors, if you want to aspire to “be something”…be a low-paid, un-heralded boring Servant of God and not a rich celebrity selling Jesus like he’s a ponzi scheme and quid pro quo herbal remedy for life’s problems. That’s horseshit, deep down, I think you know it. If you’re going to tout “special anointing” and promote Jesus, then be like him and not like Chuck Smith Sr. or any of the other rich celebrity pastors. Do the hard things, do the mundane, wash their feet (not the Big Dog CC leaders, the feet of the everyperson). If you are rich and famous because of selling Jesus, I think you have your reward (and maybe a punishment coming?).

“Most” are basically corrupt in some form. It’s the human condition. There is one Jesus and the vast majority of humanity doesn’t imitate him very well. I don’t, most of you don’t, not very often anyway. The “Church”? No different, it’s mostly about influence, money, power. Yada, yada, “it’s all for Jesus! I’d do it for free!” OK, do it for free and I’ll believe you, until then I call bullshit. Business? Look at Wall Street, look at the Big Corporations. The lies and corruption are covered over under the guise of “Shareholder equity!” and “Too big to fail!” and working the angles under intentionally wiggly laws and codes for the Lawyers to navigate their rich clients through like the Straits of Gibralter. The big money Lawyers have the maps (they lobbied and wrote the laws!) they know how to apply what is a different set of rules for “them”…but not for you. You? You’re screwed. Politics? LOL. Politicians take notes from the Church and Business…that’s where they learn how to be corrupt and how to lie and cheat and steal better.

What’s the difference between a Politician, CEO, and Preacher? Seriously, I don’t know, it’s not a joke.

What is true “belief”? Is it rote expressions of doctrine, theology, distinctives, creeds, etc? No. No more than repeating that you believe you can fly, then not jumping off the building. You believe what you do, you do what you believe. If you are hungry and you believe that eating the hamburger will satiate your hunger…you eat the hamburger. If you’re thirsty, you believe the bottle of water will quench you and you drink. When you are sick, you go to a doctor (or not in the case of some crazy Fundamentalists who let their kids die, which is murder in my opinion). You don’t put a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger, because you believe when you pull the trigger it will fire and blow your brains out.

You “do” what you believe…and even if you repeat bullshit over and over in sermons and at Pastor’s Conferences and on the radio etc…when you don’t do it, you are expressing non-belief.

Exhibit A: Christian Fundamentalists tout “simple meaning!” and “plain meaning!” as their expressed belief in how they interpret the bible. In Truth, this sort of self-described approach is largely a pick-and-choose function of being Taliban on issues they are against and very Liberal on issues they like or can’t resolve. Don Stewart is a glaring example. He co-hosts Pastor’s Perspective with Pope Chuck…and Don is a divorced man (and not because his wife committed adultery or left him, she did neither). Sources tell me (multiple, not just one…and I’ve reached out to Don Stewart in the past and he wouldn’t respond to the question) that Mr. Stewart allegedly got popped for prostitution solicitation in Portland, Oregon. I don’t have the arrest report, but I have several sources who claim such and when asked, I got the CC Stone Wall. If it’s not true, he could have easily responded “no”…he didn’t respond. Dear Judge, while I don’t have DNA evidence or video that Don Stewart got popped for prostitution solicitation, I believe my sources and I have a reasonable belief that he did and that some sort of personal infidelity led to his divorce, which is a legitimate issue and right (per the Constitution) to discuss publicly regarding a pastor/leader/public personality who interjects himself into the public discussion regarding a variety of moral issues and promotes himself as an expert to trust and listen to.

That’s my opinion based on information from credible sources and I have the right to state my beliefs and to believe them, despite the judge’s bizarre ruling recently that you can somehow get in my mind and know what I’m thinking when I write stuff. That’s very clairvoyant, can you please tell me what my wife is thinking when she asks me if a certain dress makes her look fat…do I tell her the truth or does she want me to lie to her? That one always confuses me. To the point: Don Stewart, according to a “simple” reading and Ken Ham’s “plain meaning” (BTW, Ken Ham spoke at this year’s CCSPC as well, he got sued by former partners/associates in Australia for allegedly unethical behavior and my-way-or-the-highway Moses Model type garbage. Here’s a link: http://duoquartuncia.blogspot.com/2007/06/answers-in-genesis-lawsuit.html ) a person who is divorced for reasons other than adultery by the spouse is in the ongoing current sin of adultery today.

At least that’s what the bible says “simply” here: Luke 16:18 ”Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”

Seems pretty straightforward, no? Well, I’m sure there’s an explanation, I mean, it can’t mean what it says because Chuck Smith Sr. and Calvary Chapel wouldn’t have a “homosexual” hosting Pastor’s Perspective, because that’s such a heinous sin! God “hates” the homos! God “hates” liars and a lot of other folks, too, or so the bible says. Full Taliban on the homosexual issue, not so much when it comes to Calvary Chapel pastors who can’t keep the “little pastor” in their pants. This is what I call Selective Fundamentalism, write it down, it’s a drum I intend to beat for a long time.

There is no such thing as a true Christian Fundamentalist/Literalist/Conservative, only the Taliban do it right and keep it real and keep it OG and OT.

Today’s Fundamentalists/Literalists/Conservatives are really Selective Fundamentalists or even Part-time Liberals depending on the issue. Hard cold law and justice for homosexuals, maximum grace and antinomianism for liars, prideful, heterosexual adulterers, gluttons and whatever sins they (and their buddies) can’t tame. Fact is, there is no such thing as the Transformational Gospel. You might change positionally in a Justification context, but none are truly “transformed” in the context presented by the particular Group that promotes this myth.

Atheists, Mormons, Catholics, Buddhists, Hindus, etc can do “good works” and can be very moral people…they “love their neighbor” and they are the Good Samaritan many times. Conversely, God’s supposed “specially anointed” can be some of the most lecherous evil bastards ever evolved theistically (yes, Ken Ham, the facts tell me you are a total idiot, and for those who would exegete my words 2,000 years from now, I mean Ken Ham is a total idiot, I think he is intellectually dishonest and twisting and contorting and forcing things into his presuppositional box…and making a lot of money and quite a name for himself in Fundie circles by doing it).

Humans are bad and good, good and bad. One giant beautiful mess of contraction and duality. Some are generally more evil than others, others are generally more good. Most are a mix, capable of doing very good things and very bad things. It’s how we tick, it’s who we are. There is no correlation to some special “transformation” in Christians and no evidence that Atheists or Mormons or whoever you deem as Godless can’t be moral, exhibit the “fruits of the Spirit” etc. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness and self-control is exhibited in all Groups, so is malice, lying, selfishness, pride, anger, lust, etc. If you disagree with me, you are going to a level of hell reserved for Adolph Hitler

Ironically, this Calvary Chapel Bob Grenier situation proves all the above. Selective Fundamentalism is on full display.

Chuck Smith Sr. rebuked me on air and from the pulpit for being “unforgiving” and for not unilaterally forgiving my step-dad for the hurt he caused me and my brothers. I’ve been roundly scolded, rebuked, ridiculed, told I’m in “greater sin” and “of the devil” and even demon-possessed by some in Calvary Chapel. I’ve been told my actions toward seeking justice are “hatred” and “bitterness” and that I should “leave it to the Lord!” and “move on” etc.

How come Chuck Smith Sr. rebuked me then and didn’t unilaterally forgive me and “leave it to the Lord” like he told me? Why did a powerful public figure take action for the slight he believed he suffered? Why did Chuck Smith Sr. sue Mike Kessler over CSN Radio and money when he felt he was wronged, even though the bible “simply” says you’re not to do such a thing? Why is Bob Grenier suing me for the slight and injustice he says he’s suffering? I thought we were to unilaterally forgive?

Selective Fundamentalism and true belief. Chuck Smith and Bob Grenier don’t really believe the bullshit they tell you. They are very unforgiving and very much want blood…when it suits their Agenda and purpose. When you are the Offended, well, you are to unilaterally forgive and just leave it to God, etc. I call bullshit. Liars lie and spin, it’s what they do. In my opinion, Chuck Smith and Bob Grenier (and much of Calvary Chapel leadership) are liars and twisters and spinners and will profess one set of rules from their pulpits for “you”…and practice a very different belief for themselves. It’s proven over and over again in a ton of other instances.

Pastor Steve Wright of Calvary Chapel Lake Elsinore recently exampled the Truth underlying this entire situation. Pastor Steve and I have logged a ton of time over at Michael Newnham’s PhoenixPreacher blog over the years. It started out friendly and I took it in a more adversarial direction once I gauged that Steve wasn’t interested in taking any responsibility as an “in fellowship” co-affiliated CC Pastor/Elder and rejected the “simple meaning” of 1 Timothy 5:19-22 etc.

Steve Wright has many times stated that “spiritual abuse” is often some sort of over-used and over-played concoction of disgruntled church folks who have a bad experience (largely based on their own issues) and need to move on and get over it etc etc. His buddy Gene Schneider (MLD) tends to echo this sentiment over the years as well. Unilateral forgiveness is what is generally touted, that and the typical “don’t be bitter” “being bitter is like drinking poison and expecting the other guy to get sick” “leave it to the Lord” etc. Steve seems to have a hard time understanding why I’ve got a chip on my shoulder, especially when it comes to Calvary Chapel.

Well, Steve’s recently gained some empathy through experience. I’ve been somewhat intentional in the direction I’ve taken my relationship with him…largely to make a point and to persuade and teach through real-life experience (which tends to stick) verses just stating words over and over on a blog.

Long story short, I’ve kind of been a dick to him and not been very gracious. I outed his identity (which violated his trust and was a sort of betrayal) and then I’ve laid into him persistently many time, giving him a sort of blog-beating (or what Bob Grenier would call a “spanking”) many times. I don’t let up. I don’t give the guy a chance to breath, often. He sticks his head up, I knock him down. I play a bit dirty at times, I don’t follow the rules etc. Hmm, who else (metaphor) did similar growing up in my life? Hmm, who could it be?

Now, does Steve Wright unilaterally forgive and treat me like nothing’s happened? Does he extend grace to me consistently? Is he kind and loving toward me? Does he say nice things about me? Not on your life. Selective Fundamentalism. One set of advice like a prescription from Pastor Steve to those hurting, a whole other expressed belief in action when the shoe is on the other foot. Steve hates my guts. He hits back. He rails on me, calls me out, accuses me, etc.

It came to a head again recently and he offered this tidbit which exposes his true belief in how to handle offense:

Why give someone your word, if you word doesn’t mean anything?

Why believe or trust anything such a person ever says?

Moving on…..”

Why believe or trust anything such a person ever says? Yes. Why believe anything coming out of Bob Grenier’s mouth, Chuck Smith’s mouth or Calvary Chapel? They’ve lied to me. Bob Grenier lied to me my whole life, so did Chuck Smith, so did Calvary Chapel. They told me the the bible was to be taken “simply” and that it was the Authority and the Standard by which we measure all things. Now they’re suing me for following the bible in a very Christian Fundamentalist manner.

I followed Matthew 18 and confronted Bob privately, then went to his main Elder at CCV, then I spent four years praying about it after getting the con job from the Dowds. I told the truth to the CC elders, board, fellow pastors, CCOF, Chuck Smith etc. It took years and years of following the “rules”. I “warned”, I “told it unto the church” and I “rebuked them publicly”…all per a “simple” read of the bible. When push came to shove, Bob Grenier betrayed me. He didn’t hold up his end of the bargain. He didn’t submit to Matthew 18, he didn’t tell the truth, he didn’t confess and repent, he sacrificed me and my brothers to save his “ministry”…my mother betrayed us as well. The Church betrayed us. We were Stone-Walled, lied to, manipulated, treated as garbage. Our offenses were minimized, the gobs of people whose offenses we shared with Pope Chuck were discarded. My brother Paul Grenier’s allegations were not taken seriously by Calvary Chapel. We were all betrayed, the bible was betrayed. It has been Selective Fundamentalism at its worst. It’s a Statement of Belief by Bob Grenier, Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel System of Churches. Don’t buy their bullshit, actions speak louder than words.

Steve Wright, Pastor of Calvary Chapel Lake Elsinore, is a coward of the worst kind. He hid behind a moniker until I outed him, then once he’s out he continues to defend a System that doesn’t do what it says…it twists and spins and takes very little “simply” unless it’s something like Gay Marriage or “double honor” as an excuse to pay pastors well (Steve excluded, he does do a good job with his finances). It’s your attitude and actions regarding your hypocrisy with these issues that really torque me Steve. On one hand, you say you’re not responsible, CC’s are all independent and you can’t do anything…on the other hand you tote the water and defend the Brand publicly and rebuke your enemies (and CC’s enemies) often. Bullshit. Be a do-nothing pacifist in all areas or STFU (yes, exegeters in the future, that stands for Shut The F**k Up). I can respect a consistent asshole, I can respect a consistent gracious guy like a Chuck Smith Jr. I have zero respect for mealy-mouthed politicians like Steve Wright.

Similarly, I have no respect for Fundamentalist/Literalist/Conservatives who tout “simple meaning” yet don’t go full Taliban. If you’re going to tout that angle and look down your ignorant noses at the Liberals within Christianity, then go the whole way and stone your women and children to death, make your women cover their heads in church, quit tolerating divorce, stop being fat gluttons (ever been to a CCSPC? Moo. Fat asses everywhere, but not Mr. Mid-life Crisis Greg Laurie, LOL, he’s got the GLT’s goin’ on! Gym, Laundry, Tan! Lookin’ good for an old dude Laurie, just keep it in your pants…or, actually, since you’re CC just make sure you don’t stick it in a dude and you’ll be fine).

We can learn a lot from the Liberals in Christianity. We’re all moving in that direction anyway. The Enlightenment, if God is real, is from God. He gave us Reason, he gave us Truth, he gave us a Conscience, he gave us a brain (Ken Ham, it’s OK to use it, don’t be scared). If the presuppositionalist position of “the devil is the father of lies!” is in fact true, then don’t fear Truth, wherever you find it. If you are a presuppositionalist and literalist who doesn’t believe that “simple” verse in the bible, then your Belief System is errant and has a flaw. Either way, you’re screwed.

Fear is what keeps most Selective Fundamentalists from embracing the Truth about reality. Fear is what keeps Cult Followers cult followers, it keeps Kool-Aid Drinkers drinking, it’s what puts money in the coffers, it’s what gives men pulpits, people and power in a worldly sense (which is largely the Church sense as well).

If God is real (and I believe he is), then it’s OK to be a Selective Fundamentalist, which is really a Liberal in disguise. If God is “love”, if the pre-eminent “Law” is now “Love your neighbor” and “Good Samaritan” and “Unilateral Forgiveness”…then quit cowering in the corners and shed the rest of the ridiculousness of Selective Fundamentalism. Embrace the God of Christianity, who is the Jesus Christ of the Gospels. God is not words on a page or creeds or traditions or some weird pick-and-choose bible belt cultural concoction. God is not the jot and tittle of what we call the canon of scripture, nor is the bible inerrant or without contradiction and paradox.

God is probably Spirit, Zeitgeist, Universe, Truth and Jesus. God is more Ideal than Idol, more Truth than Transformation, more Distinct than Distinctive. If you aren’t afraid to watch, listen and read between the lines, you’ll discover some glimpse of Truth as I have, guaranteed.

Source

The 2013 Calvary Chapel Senior Pastors’ Conference took place this last week at Murietta Hot Springs Conference Center, CA.  You can find their schedule and speakers here.

The theme:  Revelation 3 (by Chuck Smith).  Other speakers were assigned verses 7-11.

They really think they are the church of Philadelphia (brotherly love).  You can believe anything when you don’t have members of the church to hold you to an account and when you cannot see beyond the Moses Model or its distinctives.

Word for Word, verse by verse:

The Faithful Church

⁷ “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,

‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”:

⁸ “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

⁹ Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

¹⁰ Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

¹¹ Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

Rachael’s story:

I left Calvary and will probably leave Christianity forever. Calvary Chapel’s problem is it’s toxicity in ‘end times’ eschatology. The ethnicity to which you are born is the determination for the rapture per their theology. Furthermore, statements such as ‘we are in the end times’ or that ‘these are the end times’ is considered toxic and results in poor psychological health for it’s members. Also, They have had too many people who are selling their books through the church preaching ‘sermons’ almost as though they are advertising for their own profit. One of these has an extremely ethnic attitude about who Gog and Magog is and has changed his opinion about Gog Magog several times depending on who Israel is fighting with at that time. Too orwellian although what should one expect from a fiction author-which is what some of their ‘pastors’ are.

The church also has some sort of psychosis in it’s Biblical interpretation preferring to ‘float’ the Bible as though there is not a timeline involved. Israeli archeology is very clear about timeline’s. The Bible was written starting from 600BC with a couple of writings taken from some books back to 900BC. Thus the Bronze age of Israel or Hebrew period or Patriarchal period was written at a later date than when it occurred. The Church has a terrible time with Hermeneutics refusing to accept the importance of Sumero-Babylonian, Kingdom of Yam, Egypt, and Persian contributions to the Bible-(eg the 10 commandments are from the Egyptian Book of the Dead, and the Mittani aws are exemplified by the behavior of the ‘Patriarchs’-Mittani are the Indo-Iranians)

Was your CC experience similar to Rachael’s?  Was there anything you considered “off” in your CC church experience?

photo credit: @jbtaylor via photopin cc

Crowned1 shared on another thread.  

I also believe that calvary chapel has an agenda. I believe their agenda is to ‘market’ Jesus Christ (pursuit of mammon). From guest speakers, to book signings, to prophecy conferences, to luxuries world wide. The church appears more to me as a country club, than a charity that also preaches Jesus.

Is Crowned1′s experience a common one among Calvary Chapel churches?

 
photo credit: TheTruthAbout via photopin cc

As requested, here is main portion of the recent ruling which was certified and mailed April 9, 2013. Judge Paul Vortmann spent a few extra days to review and consider an earlier case, Gomez v. Fried (1982) 136 Cal App. 3d 924.    In this case, the Appellate District reversed the trial Court’s denial of a motion for judgment.  The key issue in this case was the “burden of proof.”  Proof was needed to show that the article was knowingly false and that it “was circulated with reckless disregard of whether it was false.”   The court agreed with the Appellate District’s decision.

However, in the Grenier case, the Court decided that the Plaintiffs had presented enough evidence to make it likely that they could prevail in court.  Below are screenshots of the two key paragraphs.

The attorneys for Defendants Taylor/Grenier are appealing this ruling.  The appeal may take 1-1/2 to 2 years.    While this was not the expected outcome, the Defendants’ attorneys are confident that Taylor/Grenier will prevail.

We have a new update.  After postponing a decision in order to read more Supreme Court decisions on “malice,” today Judge Paul Vortmann issued his ruling.  Alex Grenier reported:

“The lower court ruled against our anti-SLAPP motion. Our attorneys will take it up on appeal and we look forward to the Appeal’s Court interpreting and applying the law properly. This could take a year or two. Until then, we continue to speak out against abuse and corruption in the church and in Calvary Chapel.”

Please continue to pray for Tim and Alex as they fight this battle for truth to be exposed.

“Keeping Secrets”  photo credit: chasingfun via photopin cc

The following excerpt was taken from  The Ministry of an Assisting Pastor (Or, More Things I Learned From My Pastor), by Larry Taylor:

17. Keep Every Aspect of the Ministry Confidential

Confidentiality is vital for a variety of reasons. Confidentiality protects the rights and dignity of others. The opposite, gossip, destroys people.

Keeping matters confidential will protect the church from liability in an age that is quick to sue in court. Protecting people’s privacy makes them feel safe and lets them know that this is a church they can trust. It provides positive morale and a healthy atmosphere. Unfortunately, the violation of confidential information about people is rampant within the church. Staff people talk among themselves about members of the congregation, husbands and wives discuss counseling situations, and pastors use people’s life situations as sermon illustrations.

The result is that the church becomes a chaotic house of gossip where everyone knows everything about everybody else. To paraphrase James, these things should not be.

Absolutely everything that goes on in a ministry is confidential. Do not ever talk to anyone, including your spouse, about people’s marriages and personal problems, salaries of church employees, budget considerations, board decisions and discussions, or anything that is private to a person or family. Churches have been destroyed by a lack of confidentiality.

The only exception is that the senior pastor needs to know everything in order to properly oversee the ministry. Sharing with him is biblical; sharing with any one else is sinful.

 

What do you think?  Is this nonsense?  Biblical?  Let’s talk.

***Updated note 4/14/13:  It has been noted in the comments by Erunner that Larry Taylor would no longer endorse this teaching.  This “rule,”  however, is still very present in high-controlling churches.

Defendant Tim Taylor has notified us that Alex and Tim’s attorney’s brought similar Supreme Court cases before the judge to consider “malice” with regard to their case.  The judge will take a couple of days to go over these cases and make a decision.  You can read yesterday’s tentative court decision at Julie Anne’s blog:  Spiritual Sounding Board.

Please continue to pray for Tim and Alex, that God will sustain them and that the truth will be exposed.  ~M

“Dark Clouds Over Pond” by David Wagner

Hannah left a comment this morning:

Alex- I had not gone over to PxP before my last post.

After just reading there, may I suggest you start a thread on person stories of overcoming church abuse; (be it Calvary Chapel or others), how our faith was tested through this abuse (my family spent many years going through this) and what we can offer others who are going through the same.

It would give many an opportunity to share their heart, come alongside others, and encourage one anothers faith.

I believe that God has ordained us all to suffer, and that there is a divine purpose in it all. Hard to see when we are going through it.

Just a suggestion to give direction to the conversation here.
Thanks.

This is a great idea.  Let’s talk about what we have done to get through the dark times when God doesn’t seem to make sense.   What do we do when our faith is tested?  How can you best encourage someone who is facing difficult challenges?  How do we make sense of the hypocrisy we see in church leaders today?    Where is God in all of this?   Do you have a story to share?

Why not “try” to reconcile as a Pastor/Leader who claims to be “called” and Qualified and presents themselves to be like Jesus?

Hell froze over yesterday. And, I’m pretty sure I saw some pigs flying around in Boise.

OK, not really, but it seems like it.

I’ll admit it (as if it isn’t obvious)…I’m jaded, skeptical, un-trusting of Calvary Chapel and its 1500-2000 affiliated official Senior Pastors. Well, there are some good ones in there after all, good in the context of they try to do the right thing and they are approachable and give it a real shot at resolving a tough situation…without attorneys and bodyguards and stone walls.

I am happy (thrilled really) to report that one such rare case happened yesterday at Calvary Chapel Boise with the help of Pastor Bob Caldwell.

Here’s the gist of the controversy in a nutshell:

There’s a guy “Greg” who’s been protesting/picketing Calvary Chapel Boise…literally standing out front of the mega-church (it’s a really big CC) on a busy road, with big signs, expressing his beef with Calvary Chapel that has, up until yesterday, remained unresolved.

It would be easy to paint the guy as “crazy” and dismiss him as a nut and move on. That’s the easy thing, and not the right thing, IMO. It’s also not the wisest thing for Bob and CC, as the guy was quite resolved, and he wasn’t going anywhere.

Obviously there’s a problem. Who pickets a church? Well, either a total nutcase…or a guy who has a beef that he can’t get passed and needs some closure…and feels he hasn’t got a fair shake inside the church walls.

I’ve talked with Greg, he’s not a nutcase. He’s a little different, but not institutional different…more like very bright and talented and determined and passionate different. Is he a homogenized “normal”? Heck no, what vanilla normal person pickets a church in public and opens themselves up to that kind of embarrassment?

When I look at a situation like this, I see it through a lens of someone who knows what it’s like to be kicked out of a church Group (or a family unit, as dysfunctional as it is) and blamed for the separation…even though I tried to do what was right and righteous…and in fact commanded in the bible (which is supposedly “the” authority that the same church and family says is the final say on all matters). IMO, a guy like Greg is either an institutional nut and needs to go spend some time in a padded room…or there’s something legit there that needs to be resolved.

It didn’t take me long to believe that Greg is legally sane and had some legit beefs and that Calvary Chapel should/could sit down and help work this thing out.

I agreed to try and help Greg approach Calvary Chapel. I called and left a message for the Senior Pastor (CCSP) Bob Caldwell. I explained who I was, gave info about CC Abuse, stated briefly what the inquiry was about and requested a call back.

I was shocked when my cell phone rang just a little time later, and it was Bob Caldwell.

The guy didn’t get a word in for quite awhile as I was pretty amped up and expected a knock-down drag-out.

To my pleasant surprise, Bob was very gracious, yet frank and not patronizing. He listened. When he spoke, it felt real and candid and not guarded and even more importantly, not as if he was some special prophet/guru who should be approached from afar with sacrificial gifts and chants of praise and allegiance…and there was no kissing of rings.

Bob’s a real guy. If I didn’t know he was the pastor of a huge mega-church, I would have thought I was talking to a really nice laid-back guidance counselor or something.

I presented Greg’s beef and asked Bob for his (CC Boise’s) side of the story. Bob shared some stuff in a straightforward manner. There was a little push-back on both sides of the convo in a couple of spots (Bob’s still a man and a Leader, and I expect honest push-back where it’s warranted). The result of the convo was an agreement to an in-person meeting with the offended party, me and Bob.

The biggest take-away from the phone convo that gave me some hope about the meeting: Bob seemed to sincerely care about Greg…and not as much about himself or the church business.

I phone Greg and told him the news of the meeting. He was ecstatic, while having some butterflies (a very normal human reaction). I told him how excited I was with the opportunity and that, IMO, this was rare (in my experience) and a great sign so far.

THE MEETING

Bob’s taller and skinnier than I thought. I patted him on the back and encouraged him to eat something…commenting that most of his fellow affiliated CC Pastor brothers aren’t so svelt and are usually busting out of their Hawaiian shirts or Tommy Bahamas.

Staff was friendly, just like at CC Costa Mesa. Some of the folks looked so innocent and naive…and a couple looked as if they thought we were really weird and looked a bit uncomfortable, my perception.

We met in a small conference room upstairs. Bob on one side of a smallish table, Greg and me on the other.

I tried to take some control of the meeting, explaining that we have three chiefs in the tee-pee and needed some sort of structure to get through this. I explained how I thought the conversation should go (in regards to a structure/order). Bob suggested we open in prayer and turned to Greg to pray first. Greg prayed. I was offered to pray, I declined (I pray to God in an unorthodox way, I pretty much keep an ongoing dialogue in my inner-voice and I feel that public prayers are pretty much not praying to God, but a prayer performance for the others present, and I don’t like that. If I’m going to pray to God, my Father…others would be very taken back at what they’d hear…and I didn’t want to freak these two out, especially Bob. He probably thinks I’m weird enough already). Bob then prayed.

After the prayers, I provided a synopsis of why we were there, thanked Bob for the opportunity and then summarized what I had gathered was the “situation” from both sides, what the beefs were and asked how we could resolve this so Greg doesn’t feel compelled to picket CC Boise any longer and feels he has closure on these issues.

Greg spoke at length about his side of things. Bob responded many times. I interjected and pushed back in some spots for consideration…for both parties. It seemed to keep some balance to the discussion…as both sides tend to see things through their personal lens.

Greg conducted himself very well…so did Bob.

Bob showed me, and more importantly he showed Greg, that he was sincere in wanting to help work this out. That’s a HUGE factor. Bob’s good leadership is the reason this meeting was a success, not me.

The controversy was many years old. It started in 2004 and reached a climax in 2005 with Greg being banned from a single’s group at CC Boise, which resulted in an arrest for trespass (misdemeanor) when Greg showed back up to the group.

Greg’s side of things was that he didn’t know why he was banned and felt it was wrong to then be arrested when he tried to return to the group. Greg said there was some conflict between him and the leader of the single’s group at the time, an associate pastor who is no longer with CC Boise and according to Greg was fired for just cause by the church. The banning and the arrest for trespass really bothered Greg. He felt he was treated unjustly and he reports he never got a clear answer of what happened and why it happened. All the sudden, he’s out, he’s arrested and he’s the bad guy. He was not able to move on and let it go without some sort of resolution. He felt he was bullied by the assistant and some others and felt he got a raw deal.

In around 2007, Greg’s wife reached out to Bob and expressed concern that Greg was still spinning over this unresolved issue. Bob agreed to a meeting. He met with Greg and gave him a general apology and tried to work things out. Greg still believed he wasn’t told what happened and why it happened. No details were given to him previously or at that time of what the beefs against him were, specifically, that led to his banning from the group. Greg left this meeting feeling better for a time, but the underlying issues had still not been fully resolved.

Flash forward to 2013. Greg sees the “Save Saeed” campaign and sees CC Boise beating the drum to save the Iranian missionary (whose church home is CC Boise) who has been arrested wrongly in Iran and is in prison for being a Christian…(a really good Cause that Greg agrees with, and I agree with. Iran needs to free Saeed now and our State Department and our Government needs to do more to make that happen).

This is what is called a “trigger”…something I’ve learned from licensed therapists, etc in the psychology world.

Greg felt this was quite hypocritical, since CC Boise had not fully resolved his beef with them…and he was arrested, too. How about “Save Greg”?

The negative feelings and emotions popped back up. The scab had not healed. Greg began to rehash the situation and got angry. When folks get angry, sometimes they make signs and protest…a healthy and legal choice to deal with the frustration…a much better choice than turning to drugs and alcohol…or even worse, breaking the law. Again, many vanilla normal folks probably would’ve let it go…we’re not all vanilla normal…God makes us all a bit unique and some of us…in this patchwork quilt called this life, this existence…are not just like everyone else in all regards. Heck, some of the craziest dudes I know are CC pastors…literally. Some of them really think they have the “gift” of “seeing demons in people” and some think they are really prophets of God…talk about delusional…but Greg’s crazy. Got it.

Greg has some great qualities. Part of his good qualities, like his passion and his bright mind, can be a challenge for him in letting something go (believe me, I know this from personal experience). Greg’s not a circus freak, he’s not a threat to society. He’s a human being, with a soul, with a family. He needed some help and some grace and some good Godly leadership in this situation and some sort of resolution that made sense to him.

So, Greg’s been picketing CC Boise…and now, here we are in a meeting with the Senior Pastor and we’re hashing it out (again).

This time around, Bob provided the details of what went down in 2004/2005. He presented a copy of the police report that detailed the situation and some complaints CC Boise had received from some others in the group about Greg. Greg was told specifically what those complaints were. They were not allegations of a crime or anything like that, but they were allegations that warranted the church deal with the situation. If the church is expected to take Greg’s complaints seriously, they have to take the complaints of women in their flock seriously as well. I affirmed that Bob was in a tough position with regards to that issue. Without a ton of evidence to the contrary, Bob is left with some women saying one thing and Greg saying another…and if the church doesn’t respond to the claims from women, and it turned out Greg was a psycho and something bad happened, then the church gets their arses sued off and accused of not protecting women.

The specifics: A couple of women in the church said Greg was stalking them. Greg said he was just involved a lot in the group and volunteered for lots of stuff and was around them a lot in church-related functions. It was a single’s group. Without the benefit of tracking down the women and getting their side, we can assume they were uncomfortable at the least and they expressed their discomfort to the church. OK. That info would have gone a long way for Greg back then…and in the first meeting with Bob in 2007. Greg feels the specific charges against him would have given him the opportunity to respond better and to know why he was banned, etc.

This was a big thing for Greg. He really wanted to know what he had done and he wanted the opportunity to make it right. He appeared very relieved to get the specifics and claimed he was not aware of those details. Bob was under the impression he was from what he was told from others back then (one of them being the ex-assistant who later got fired).

In reviewing, again, the climate of the single’s group under the leadership of the former assistant pastor…IMO, it became clear that the assistant didn’t handle the problem well…and that there was some sort of p***ing match and personal beef with Greg over some stuff Greg had challenged him on. Without the benefit of speaking with the assistant, I come to this conclusion based on Greg’s take and the fact that the assistant got canned from CC Boise for not dealing with other situations in the best manner as well. Bob didn’t throw the guy under the bus, but he did acknowledge that there were things the guy could have handled in a better way and he apologized to Greg for that (again).

Here’s what became clear…and here’s what I think just resolved the issue and has helped Greg to burn up his protest signs and to hopefully move on: Bob Caldwell heard him out, again. Bob Caldwell provided the specifics of the other side and of the stuff Greg was accused of. Bob Caldwell was open, he acknowledged some mistakes, he offered to help…he is even providing counseling from a psychologist who helps in their church. Bob sat across the table as a pastor who was more concerned about Greg at that moment, than he was about being 100% right and protecting his man kingdom.

Greg did great as well. He is a good guy, IMO, he just wanted to know. He just wanted to hear that it didn’t go as well as it could have or should have. He just wanted to hear all there was to the situation and not be left guessing. He handled the accusations against him very well. I tried to explain that Bob is in a tough spot when he’s got one sheep saying this and that about the other sheep…while agreeing that Greg had a right to know the specifics and to get some sort of airing of his grievances and some sort of shot at finality.

I think we got that shot yesterday. I think Greg got the closure he was fighting for. I think Bob Caldwell acted as a Servant Leader and got off his stage, climbed down from his ivory tower and got dirty with some regular sheep. I think what happened yesterday was right and righteous and I think that if the Faith is real, if the bible is true and if God “is”…then God is pleased with it.

The take-away from this one, IMO: Some folks need resolution, they need a fair shake and a frank discussion with the Pastor. They need to hear they aren’t the “enemy” and of the devil. They need the church and the Pastor to slow down for a minute and to take the matter seriously. Yes, CC Boise is extremely busy. Yes, they help a lot of folks. Yes, it was probably very inconvenient for Pastor Bob to have to deal with this in the manner he did. Yes, that’s what the bible calls him to do regardless. If a “pastor” can’t slow down enough to take some of these situations seriously and really try to resolve them in a positive manner…then I question the validity of their supposed “calling”.

If Jesus Christ the SON of the living God was/is not too busy for dirty muddy stinky sheep (even when it’s tough and uncomfortable)…then what the heck are you doing? Leave the 99 to save the 1. Try to resolve beefs. If you’re too “busy”…if you have underlings to handle that stuff…you aren’t really a pastor, you’re a paid public speaker. Go read the news off a teleprompter or join the local theater or become a politician….but get the heck out of my Father’s House, you brood of vipers.