Jun 242012
 

In a Bombshell lawsuit sent to CalvaryChapelNews.com, attorneys for the defense invoke the “doctrine of ecclesiastical abstention” due to Calvary Chapel’s “ecclesiastical hierarchical structure” which they say, includes CCOF, which is the licensing arm of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (and Chuck Smith is president of CCOF per IRS documents). According to the suit, Calvary Chapel believed the court had “no jurisdiction” in ruling on what Calvary Chapel called “an internal affair” that should be handled by the church, not the courts.

Citing a “disciplinary and restoration process”, the defense argued that the Court could not be involved in hearing the matter at hand without getting itself inter-mingled with church doctrine, beliefs and practices.

The lawsuit has been described as “incredible” and a “bombshell” with regards to two current Child Molestation lawsuits against Calvary Chapel that are currently pending in the Idaho Court System.

Chuck Smith has made public statements recently that Calvary Chapel “has no control, has exercised no control” and “has no responsibility” for other “100 percent independent” Calvary Chapel Affiliates. Smith and his surrogates have further claimed that they have no authority and “have never gotten involved” in individual Calvary Chapel Affiliate matters. The Arizona lawsuit seems to indicate otherwise.

At issue with the Calvary Chapel Child Molestation lawsuits is the doctrine of Agency and Implied Agency according to legal experts who have spoken with CalvaryChapelNews.com. If the plaintiffs in the Calvary Chapel Child Molestation lawsuits can prove that there is a connection between CCCM/CCOF and the so-called “100 percent independent” Calvary Chapel Affiliates, then the doctrine of Implied/Apparent Agency is in play and Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa and CCOF have responsibility in doing the most they can to protect children in their 2,000 Affiliate Calvary Chapel System.

Currently, Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (and their attorneys) deny any liability and any responsibility for what goes on in their 2,000 Affiliated churches…and have stated recently in phone calls, interviews and an in-person meeting with Chuck Smith, Dave Rolph and Attorney Janet Carter that Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa and CCOF “have never gotten involved” with matters affecting other CC’s and have never tried to influence or control issues that have gone on in other Calvary Chapels.

Link to the Arizona Lawsuit Docs here:

Arizona Lawsuit: CC defense proves “ecclesiastical hierarchical structure” and direct link to CCOF/CCCM “disciplinary and restoration process” with regards to what Chuck Smith calls “100 percent independent” Calvary Chapel Affiliate

“Statement of Facts” from CC defense showing CCOF as an active authority in Affiliate CC matters, despite Chuck Smith’s claims to the contrary

 Posted by at 5:08 pm

  88 Responses to “Legal Bombshell: Calvary Chapel argues “court has no jurisdiction” (in another lawsuit) due to Calvary Chapel’s “ecclesiastical hierarchical structure” which includes CCOF. Invokes the “doctrine of ecclesiastical abstention” and tells the court, “we have our own disciplinary and restoration process” and to butt out of Calvary Chapel affairs.”

  1. And I’m assuming that the lawyers in the Idaho Case have the same information now. Well, I think I’ll get some popcorn and watch the fireworks.

  2. “Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto GOVERNORS, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.” 1 Peter 2

  3. EXTRA BUTTER PLEASE!

  4. Ok, is this the part when the dancing girls come out on stage?

  5. DA, I’d say that’s a high probability assumption :smile:

    …it should get very interesting.

  6. Perry, LOL :lol:

    Chuck Smith sure lied to me with a straight face in our in-person “meeting” at CC Costa Mesa. The dude can put on his game face and sell the b.s. when he needs to. He tried to con me with the “what are you talking about?” stuff. He knows full well about all of this, he just doesn’t want to be held responsible and accountable for his Movement/Denomination.

  7. Slippery slope you folks are riding here. Thank God for thecfirst amendment and the doctrine ofcseaparation of chuch and state. These doctrines have historically protected the church from issues such as discimination, homosexual employees and wrongful termination, among others.e It is the bulwark that keepscfederal law, Congress and Chief Executives from running the church and stripping it of its independence from civil laws and governance.

  8. The doctrine of ellesiastical abstention protects your and my church from the intrusion of the courts, secondcuessing by activist judges, etc. i will not argue whether the doctrine should apply here with my not knowing thecfull facts, but it isn’t the doctrine that is wrong, just maybe the application of it here

  9. Motel, I think the Church should have “ecclesiastical hierarchical structure” and handle certain issues ‘in-house’ as they say, as long as they report child abuse and molestation to authorities right away.

    My beef is that Chuck is lying and trying to have his cake and eat it too in the Bob Grenier situation and the Child Molestation lawsuits vs. when he “has” gotten directly involved through CCOF in so many other Calvary Chapel Affiliate cases (despite Chuck’s statements to the contrary…which is lying).

    Chuck should have dealt with Bob Grenier, he saw PLENTY of first-person testimonies and a smoking gun testimony from a CC Board Member about a confession of child abuse, etc.

    Chuck lied about me from the CCCM pulpit, misrepresented our conversations and how the meeting came about and then called me names, etc in an effort to hide his wrongdoing in handling the Bob Grenier situation.

    The fact is CCOF is still there “affiliating” CC pastors and doling out the rights to the Dove in a Fellowship Contract/Agreement and Application Process and there is power and Trust in the Brand. CC is still creating Positions of Trust and with that comes responsibility to mandate the protection of children in the System, rather than Chuck repeating over and over the myth that CC isn’t a denomination and that all CC’s are “100% independent” and that he has “no control” and “no responsibility”.

    Hopefully Brodersen will do things differently. He certainly set a new tone at CCSPC 2012.

  10. I think God is dealing with Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith for this injustice and that God has heard the prayers of many who have been negatively affected by it.

  11. Motel, I agree with the Doctrine of Ecclesiastical Abstention…I don’t agree with Chuck Smith’s selective and convenient use of CC invoking it when it suits them and then shunning their Ecclesiastical responsibility when they are needed for a God-honoring righteous judgment on one of their Affiliated pastors (like my Step-dad). It’s unjust, unequal scales and the Scripture says unequal scales are an “Abomination” to the Lord.

  12. Calvary Chapel needs to take Ecclesiastical responsibility for their Movement/Denom or they need to be truly 100% independent and quit propagating a falsehood.

    CC should mandate common sense protections for children to every Affiliate through the Fellowship Contract/Agreement and require some things as preconditions to get the Dove.

    CC should remove the Affiliation and publicly rebuke a CC pastor in sin, per 1 Timothy 5:19-22 and exercise some Scriptural responsibility and authority over their Affiliated pastors.

    This game Chuck has been playing is bogus…and it has hurt many people who sought his help.

  13. There are certain classes of people, ergo defenseless children and particularly in a trust relationship, that have rightfully not been exempted by states from mandatory reporting laws, although not all. I don’t beleive a case has been brought challenging these laws due to ecclesiastical abstention. would be a barn burner if it did.

  14. Good night spudster.

  15. I”m stunned. Did Chuck’s lawyers think that no one would find out that they themselves already made their own case in court that they were an “agency?”

  16. In essence, yes. It was John Higgins’ (Calvary Chapel Affiliate) lawyers citing their participation with CCOF’s Ecclesiastical Hierarchical Structure…of which Chuck Smith is president and had to know all about this stuff and how CCCM/CCOF have been directly involved with “disciplinary action and restoration” many times in the past and present. Chuck’s brother, Paul Smith, was the head of CCOF. Chuck knew or should have known all about this stuff…and has lied to my face, unfortunately.

  17. CCCM/CCOF’s lawyers will have a tough time selling the judge on the “we’re 100% independent” stuff. There is a history of a clear connection between CCCM/CCOF and Affiliate CC’s and even a legal defense that invoked the connection to avoid a judgment by the court in a lawsuit.

  18. In the Arizona Lawsuit, Calvary Chapel’s “ecclesiastical hierarchical structure” and invoking the “doctrine of ecclesiastical abstention” ties the Affiliate CC to CCCM/CCOF as part of the Structure…and proves their case by providing documentation of the connection, direct testimony of the connection, etc etc.

    They did a great job proving that Chuck Smith and CCCM/CCOF are not being truthful in the Child Molestation lawsuit when they tell the judge there is “no connection” between CCCM/CCOF and Affiliate CC’s. Clearly, there is a connection, a strong one…and John Higgins Calvary Chapel and CCOF made the case quite well.

    The affidavit from Douville, acting as an Agent of CCOF, is especially damning. It showed he was directly involved with the Affiliate Calvary Chapel situation and also was an agent of CCOF/CCCM.

  19. Unfortunately, it seems that CC has some of the most unqualified leaders from a biblical perspective. I am not thrilled that the secular courts have to rule on what should be an internal ruling within the church. CC has shot themselves in the foot and in the process has given all of us in the broader universal church a BLACK EYE. You don’t have to be in Calvary Chapel to feel the ramifications of this. I hope Chuck Smith will listen to some commonsense correction before more damage is done.

    1 Timothy 3
    New International Version (NIV)
    Qualifications for Overseers and Deacons

    3 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)

  20. Re: Andrew said,

    “I am not thrilled that the secular courts have to rule on what should be an internal ruling within the church. ”

    God tells us in the Scriptures to take care of issues in the church as much as is possible first
    so the world doesn’t have to take care of our business; and so that we don’t bring reproach in the name of Christ. But the CC pastors continue to follow Chuck Smith’s guidance to NOT deal with things in house, rather wait until the courts say there is a real issue.

    Well … now the courts can deal with Chuck Smith.

  21. Super motel 6, et al:

    The first admendment spells out a God given right. The loss of that right in this country is on the agenda of many secular groups. The failure of church leadership is contributing to the down fall of the first amendment (defacto if no actual). Leadership has abused tax laws, participants in financial schemes, they have been authorative, protectors of the evil, and accusers of the innocent. The church body as whole has no power to correct or remove these men from their seats of Moses. Now God will send the church into Modern Persia where no follower of Christ will be free to worship.

    Do not lay this on the peoples’ shoulders. Join us in valuing on pastors (including CC) to repent before it is to late.

    Yours in Christ,

    Chuck

  22. Valuing should be calling

  23. Good points Chuck.

  24. We can name many men who are wearing religious clothing, who are playing loosely with scripture, and manipulating circumstances to benefit themselves. I never thought I would see this day. CC is big business, and let’s pray this crisis will strip away the worldliness, and replace it with the simplicity of following Christ, rather than celebrities.

  25. Grateful wrote: “God tells us in the Scriptures to take care of issues in the church as much as is possible first so the world doesn’t have to take care of our business; and so that we don’t bring reproach in the name of Christ. But the CC pastors continue to follow Chuck Smith’s guidance to NOT deal with things in house, rather wait until the courts say there is a real issue. Well … now the courts can deal with Chuck Smith.”

    Well God didn’t realize that Chuck Smith is Moses. The Scriptures are trumped by the CC Distinctives. We all know that, right? ;)

  26. I have heard many CC pastors talk about “Sola scriptura” but with their insistence on the CC distinctives I am really perplexed. Yet some of the same pastors will mock some of the creedal or confessional churches yet at the same time hold in high esteem the CC distinctives. Seems like a double standard to me.

  27. Andrew…there is nothing surprising about that. CC perpetuates an anti-intellectual stance in many things they say. They have very little understanding of Church History, and their place in it.

  28. I hear ya, Andy @ 25!

  29. There are several x- cc pastors and missionaries I know of who were sent the, “dear john” letter of dis-fellowship by ccof asking them to change their name because they were no longer recognized by ccof or they were simply informed that they were being replaced by the yes man of ccof’s choice. Others were slandered, discredited and severely wounded by bigger cc’s guys whose close ties to cccm and papa c enabled them through “cc protecsia” to launch mafia style turf wars because they didn’t want the competition too close to their empire.

    Thus the satellite church was born, in order to flank (sometimes with layers) every side of the kingdom in order to protect their family a$$ets.

    Question, is a signed letter from ccof disaffiliating a cc pastor and their cc ministry legal evidence in contrast to chuck’s claim that every cc is completely independent and autonomous or does that fall under cc’s ecclesiastical hierarchical structure???

  30. once a cc guru, yes, that disaffiliation letter would be evidence of such. If you have one, email me at agrenier7 at gmail dot com.

  31. Can anyone out there tell me why Johnny Maestro is not in the Rock ‘N Roll Hall of Fame?

  32. Sheck, LOL. I have no idea.

  33. Jeff @31 – I’m guessing because his name was not real known. People knew his hits, but not his name. Why might you be thinking of him tonight?

  34. I smell the silent one’s handy work…..To quote Jim Morrison of the Doors, “This is the End….”

  35. As CC dear leader gets ready to slip into eternity – So does the movement. It is on a march toward being irrelevant – out of touch. I love how the powers that be are trying to inject life into a dying movement but appointing some young blood (60 years old) . I find this situation is completely filled with divine irony .

    BTW on a side note to JH….Johny I just had a meeting with some people that where very close to you and your finances in the 80′s…..naughty, naughty…you’ll get caughty! JH is the gift that keeps on giving. John how long before the big boys want to know why it is your lawsuit papers (from the school…do you remember that? When you got sued for slander and got CCCM involved) that are being used in this court case against them?? I think if they have not already spoke with you…it will be shortly!

    I am sure that there will be a vote of “no-confidence” on you and your ministry! John here’s the deal…I know more about you and your marriage and your ministry than you realize. I am asking that you retire from CC and head to Kansas. It is time for you to go! I have come across some very interesting facts about about your from former book keepers, people who are aware of you physically abusing your spouse, the drug problems that your children have/had – Business dealings with former partners…More to come as we gear up on Thug-o-nomics!

  36. Jeremy @ 35 said: It is on a march toward being irrelevant – out of touch.

    I personally don’t think “irrelevant” is the right word. The opposite word “relevant” has a negative connotation to me implying a degree of worldliness, compromise and cultural syncretism. This I definately see happening in CC. To me a better word to describe what I am observing in CC is “impotent”. There is a lack of integrity and honesty and truth that is stripping much of the movement of all credibility.

    I am not really concerned that a small country church with a handful of members are still singing old Franny Crosby hymns with a pipe organ as becoming “irrelevant” as long as they are still preaching the gospel. I am much more concerned with the large seeker sensative attractional mega church that have watered the gospel down with the senior pastor acting as a corporate CEO of his wordly empire. This to me is impotance.

  37. Alex,
    it’s all smoke and mirrors. The CCOF conferences releases an air of oversight and duty of responsibility. However, we must ask this question… Has any one leader in CC been requested to acknowledge wrongdoing?
    The answer…’NO!’ That will never happen.

    Secondly, yes Alex, you did experience CS saying one thing to you, and another to the masses. That misrepresentation is not only terrible, but business as usually.

    So now, your step-father, Mr. Cook, Mr. Wing and several others are enjoying the little country of Japan on the churches dime. Well, maybe it’s a bit more than a dime.

    The CC leaders (country club leaders) continue their practice of using the people and the assets for their glory and gain.

    BTW, I believe you can follow the Japan trip details and photos from our mutual friend. :-)

    Best to you Alex,

    Pjay

    Internet Cafe computer rental: $10.00 an hour
    10 minutes of blogging- $8.00
    CC Leaders using church funds to travel the world: Priceless!

  38. One correction,
    I just got word that Mr. Grenier requested to not attend this trip due to a busy summer schedule.

    Truth in reporting is very important. The remainder of the scoundrels are in attendance.

  39. Pjay, good to see you!

    Ya, BG’s got a busy summer alright. Morrissey Concerts and Golf outings and Vespa club events etc etc. Tough gig. He also may be having to provide documentation requested by authorities…that’d keep a man busy.

  40. Pjay, BG is also running out of money and I’m sure his Board is probably telling him to cut down on the expensive trips as the Church Mortgage is getting harder to pay. BG is probably almost out of the Reaching Youth Money he absorbed into his general fund.

  41. Alex,

    Bob may be in good company with other Calvary pastors that have pimped out Low Riders and take expensive vacations err I mean mission trips after telling their congregations that they will not travel anymore. Or have Car Shows and fashion shows at their Chruch. The merchandising of God’s people for sure. Bob may be living it up on the flocks dough but he sure ain’t alone in that regard.

  42. SolRod, very true. He runs with a Crew in CC that is infamous for those things. Pjay could tell you factual info that would blow your mind.

  43. Alex,

    It’s also done in a very crafty way. For example a Pastor will go on his Facebook and tell his followers that a certain country has been placed in his heart by God and then his followers will comment that he needs to listen to God and go visit said Country. So when he goes and spends the churches money he can always say that his congregation sent him out. All in the power of Suggestion

  44. SolRod, very true in many cases. Some of these guys are great at manipulating the situation toward what they want to do that benefits them in a non-ministry way.

  45. Just heard our fallen pastor is telling his new group of followers how God is revealing things to him, such as telling someone else to lead the group that night. It gives a false sense of humility, all the while planting the thought that God is giving him spiritual authority back.

    Power of suggestion … absolutely!

    This man continues to be unrepentant.

  46. @ Andrew….or say we call you Seth?? Nice try…JH is part of the foundational issues that we see happening in CC…I say shill

    Peace

  47. Alex, do you know if Tri-City is one of the few CCs with a membership? My understanding is that most CCs don’t have memberships. So I couldn’t help but notice how the Defendants kept using the words “members” and “membership” throughout the text of their Motion for Summary Judgment:

    Page 3, line 6:
    “Plaintiff….was a member of Tri-City…”

    Page 4, line 7
    “If this does not work, the local body of believers is to exercise excommunication: removal from church membership”

    Page 5, line 16
    ”…assuming… that Plaintiff’s allegations are true, the alleged course of conduct taken by the various Defendants was done in adherence to their ecclesiastical beliefs and the biblical principles of repentance, restoration, accountability and discipline discussed above and to further healthy communication with other members of Tri-City…”

    Page 7, lines 14-15
    “As such, the Calvary Church Defendants, the individually named Defendants, and Plaintiff ascribe to the biblical doctrines of repentance, restoration and accountability, as Pastors, Chaplains, Elders, and members of the Church”

    Page 9, lines 2-3
    “Like the Plaintiff here, in Bryce the plaintiff had also been employed by a church Defendant, and the alleged statements were made in a series of meetings with its members.”

    Page 9, line 15-18
    “Likewise, in accordance with step three of the discipline process set forth in Matthew 18, Defendants here conducted meetings at Tri-City with members of the church and the Calvary School, which is a ministry of the church….”

    Further, all the supporting case law they’ve cited emanate from cases involving churches with memberships (Episcopal, Eastern Orthodox, Seventh Day Adventist…).

    Assuming Tri-City has no membership, how convenient not to offer membership when it suits them but as soon as they get sued for defamation and slander they are quick to argue membership (i.e., it’s not defamation & slander but part of the membership restoration/discipline process) in light of the fact that courts have ruled that if you have membership in a church you are subject to church discipline and vice versa i.e., no membership = you’re not subject to internal church discipline.

    Just sayin.

  48. Alex, is the AZ lawsuit still pending or was the instant MSJ granted or denied?

  49. @ Jeremy, What are you talking about? I don’t know who John Higgins is but you are probably right about him being a thug.

    However, I believe the foundational issues with Calvary Chapel stem with the unbiblical Moses Model doctrine of no accountability of the senior pastor that leads to an arrogance that can be very abusive.

  50. CF lover.

    This is great insight on church membership. You are absolutely right. When it suits them they go with membership but when it is an inconvenience well they just say we don’t have membership. In either case, membership or non membership seems to always be defined by senior pastor how and when he sees fit.

  51. Alex,
    Great to be back. Word on the street is that CC La Habra paid for the entire Cook family to travel to Japan, with a short layover in Hawaii… all in celebration of the Cook’s 25th wedding anniversary.
    I really doubt if the congregants at CCLH know their missions money (ie. family travel funds) are being used to send 5 people 1/2 way across the world.
    I am elated to hear BG’s funds are depleting.

    Good things are happening.

    Grateful, I know your fallen CCSP. Sad story. I wasn’t aware he is starting to get back into the “business.”

    Pjay

  52. CF Lover,

    As far as I know CCTC does not have an actual membership, yet in Calvary talk, all believers are members if they show up more than twice.

    Yes, the case was settled. Long story, in short events led to the defendant to settle with an agreement that no party involved in the suit would talk about past events. The plaintiff has kept his word, he does not tak about the case. Jerremy W. can tesify the same cannot be said of some of the defendants.

    Chuck S.

  53. Yes Chuck I could, and can testify that the defendants have not done such. No problem taking a lie detector test either. In fact there are quite a few men that were present in Joshua Groups and men’s prayer meetings where the story was told on numerous occasions. Of course the omission of details (what they did) always paints the defendants (pastors) as the poor victims. When you hear the entire story with the details it becomes obvious that those in the group are being manipulated.

    They would go on how the plaintiff was only a gold digger looking to get paid. (sound familiar, some over at Phoenix Preacher) Of course then these “pastors” would say they were protecting the sheep by paying off the lawsuit. John mentioned he was protecting the sheep by not letting anyone know who tithed or gave what. The thugs did not want to open up the books now did they? Remember the claims of missing money in above documents? So were they really protecting the sheep or their corporation?

    Many men who attend(ed) CCTC will surely recall over an over how John Higgins has said he would like to dig a hole out back and bury him (plaintiff) in it. The more one learns the more revealing of his comment.

    My very last time in the Joshua Group “training”, the topic of pedophilia came up. This blog came up, although not by name for that would tip off those not aware of it. Higgins attempted to discredit Alex by saying “How can you trust anything anyone says about abuse when they have photos of themselves naked on their own blog?” This was all used to get control on those in the group and persuade them on the lawsuit out of Idaho that was filed at the time. (Those who limp their way here. Are you beginning to understand why Higgins repeatedly demonizes blogs and tells you to stay off them?)

    My wife and I were in charge of the Calvary Kids on Wednesday nights for a short period. So we were worked directly with children in Calvary Chapel Tri-City of Tempe Arizona. That is why I had an interest in what was taking place within Calvary Chapel. Around the time of the Idaho lawsuit I approached the Higgins family about having background checks and fingerprints for those working with the children, me and my wife included. I mentioned CC Golden Spring, Costa Mesa and CC Idaho and Iglesias specifically. Now I was taking the initiative to protect myself as well as the church should anything ever happen.

    The response that I received was quite shocking. “No, if we started fingerprinting helpers less people would be willing to volunteer, and it would be a huge cost to the church that we can’t afford.”

    So tell me where do their priorities really lie? On the bright side, since CCTC is opening a daycare they should be required by law to do background checks now.

    Jeremy W.

  54. Very interesting stuff Jeremy W.

    I should have wet my pants intentionally when John Higgins gave me a ride on his motorcycle when I was a child on “the Land” at the Shiloh Commune.

    John Higgins and many CCSP’s do not want their books scrutinized and they don’t want people digging around their affairs…why?

    Gary Ruff, Calvary Chapel Pastor of Calvary Chapel Sun Valley / Calvary Chapel Foothills in California and Board Member of Calvary Chapel Visalia and brother-in-law of Raul Ries told me when I spoke with him about Bob’s child abuse and other allegations that, “we all have skeletons in our closets”…he meant it to intimidate me at the time hinting at skeletons of mine. I outed my skeletons and took that power away from them.

    …Gary Ruff was right, however, there are a LOT of skeletons in CC closets (and in his CC pastor buddies’ closets, that’s for sure).

    May they all come tumbling out in the coming weeks, months and years.

    I got word from a journalist source that TBN is under official investigation by authorities for fraud and financial matters. I also am privy to an investigation involving CC by authorities.

    Let’s pray the Civil Court System and the Criminal Court System holds these guys to account…since Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel won’t and the bad guys won’t change on their own.

  55. CF Lover, when I was on the phone going through the documents with someone we had a good laugh at the membership thing. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

    Was it not interesting how quick they seemed to want to exercise the last step of Matt.18 and completely ostracize the plaintiff from all churches to be treated as a heathen? Did anyone else pick up on that, or am I too close to the situation?

    What elders of the church was the matter brought before? Are we to believe the elders were family, close friends of generations, and pastors whom the senior pastor ordained? Maybe that is why no one @ CCTC can tell you who the elders are?

    The record keeping from the Nazarene school explains the deep anger the CCTC pastors carry at the nearby neighborhood church/school. Someone was doing their job correctly and it simply left a paper trail. Evidence! One can’t help but wonder with the other on going case, if there might be a paper trail, or more likely audio and video that could possibly turn up.

  56. CC Victims,
    First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win.

    It appears to me CC is at the fighting stage. A win is heading your way.

  57. Thanks CS:
    “As far as I know CCTC does not have an actual membership, yet in Calvary talk, all believers are members if they show up more than twice.”

    They ought to do what Bob Coy and his guys do at CCFTL and just come right out and announce before each altar call that there is no membership. In fact, Jerry Sander emphatically stated that membership is not offered and he himself could not join CCFTL if he tried. Apparently only the “Board of Directors” are members:

    http://www.churchadminservices.com/downloads/by-laws.pdf

    “ARTICLE V
    MEMBERSHIP
    The Board of Directors shall be the members of this organization.”

  58. Jeremy,

    Here are some things I find interesting.

    1. The court filing that tries to convinces the court that what was done to Mike was all church discipline. Read the paper carefully; the defendants deny that they did any of the things they were accused of (various lies), but if they did do the bad things they were accused of doing THEY DID THEM AS A FORM OF CHURCH DISCIPLINE. Do you get that? In the defendants eyes slander is justifiable if it is in the name of Matthew 18!

    2. These same papers deny accusing the young man of stealing money. Yet my next podcast at Remnant X Radio will be verse-by-verse study of their police report against Mike for redirecting, stealing or what ever you want to call it funds from CCTC. In this very same police report it is implied Mike was being investigated for viewing child pornography. Yet they deny making these claims. What happened to let your yes be yes, and you no be no? Is Mose allowed to bare false witness and get away with the crime?

    3. The Gold digger! Wait until my podcast about the rise and fall of Shiloh! Why was the Shiloh children’s school closed? Financial reasons. Why was Calvary Chapel South Mountain Academy (John’s first CC in the Phoenix area) closed? Financial and Leadership reasons. Were any of you in the meetings concerning Calvary Tri-City’s Christian School when Peggy. Impson (the first school director), Brad Neal (the second school director) were implied to have misappropriate or taken funds? If not I have witness. And then why did CCTC-School close? Financial and leadership reasons. All of these schools have a common denominator- John Higgins. Now he is opening a new preschool. Will the school fund the church or will the church fund the school?

    Stay tune there are more coming forward that have information that makes Mike’s story look small. John, Jeremy, Jim, Doug, Charlie, Dave, and Seth here is your second call to repent fully in front of your flock and to those you have harmed. As you know the end is close, and God will judge his church (pastors) first. Jim, you the believer of repenting as loud as you SIN; I am waiting for your call. Remember though, my recorder will be on.

    Bob Grenier, watch your mentor closely. The judgement that is coming your way is the same as it is for the one that taught you. You can save what is left of your church by confessing and apologizing to those you have hurt. Starting with your sons.

    Yours in Christ,

    Chuck S

  59. Jeremy W at 52: “They would go on how the plaintiff was only a gold digger looking to get paid. (sound familiar, some over at Phoenix Preacher)”

    Same exact type senseless insults were hurled at Jerry Sandusky’s victims.

    Jeremy W at 55: “CF Lover, when I was on the phone going through the documents with someone we had a good laugh at the membership thing. They want to have their cake and eat it too.”

    Yup!

    Defendant’s MSJ, Page 8, lines 24-25
    “A case with many similarities to the present matter is Bryce v. Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Colorado..”

    If in fact many similarities, that church has a membership complete with a legitimate system of accountability built in.

    Here’s their statement on membership:

    “Membership. In accordance with Canon 17 (“Canon 17”) of the Constitution and
    Canons for the government of The Episcopal Church (2006), all persons who have received the Sacrament of Holy Baptism with water in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, whether in this Church or in another Christian Church, and whose Baptism has been duly recorded in this Church, is a member of this Parish. No member shall be qualified to vote at any meeting of the Church unless that member is an adult “Communicant in Good Standing,” as defined by Canon 17 and required by Canon 14 of the Canons for the Government of the Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Colorado.”

  60. Those that are new around here, if you go to remnantxradio.com and click on the thugonomics link Jeremy Bowling has the past thugonomics shows archived. The last one as of now is titled “THE SILENT ONE REVEALED- THE LAWSUIT” It deals with the attached links above. The first show ran out of time. It will give you insight.

    Chuck S. I am very much looking forward to part 2 to hear the rest of the story. Yes there is most definitely a common thread who can not be overlooked. PPPFB

  61. Here is a fun case: St. Christopher Preparatory High School v. Julie and Stanley Bretter parents of Peter Bretter No 08-332. Two students in a catholic school are caught in questionable activity. The male student is kicked out of the school. The “sins” of the young man are discussed from the pulpit. The young man’s new school (a public school) is notified that he is a sexual predator. The student’s family sues the church for slander, the child was not caught in sexual activity and he is not a sexual predator. The school and church claim that they are exempt from state overview because this is a ecclesiastical matter. A judge agrees with the church’s argument. It goes to appeal.

    The Supreme Court of the United States rules that a church cannot slander a person and hide behind ecclesiastical protection. Furthermore in the cases of slander, a jury has the ability to differentiate between slander ( a civil violation of persons rights) and ecclesiastical matters. If the jury decide the church had slandered the young man the church had no protection of church-state separation. If the church did not slander the young man, then the church could hide behind ecclesiastical law argument. In either manner the case should be allowed to progress to determine if slander occurred. The case was remanded back to the lower court to proceed with the case.

    Now back to the Arizona case, the case would need to proceed to determine if slander occurred. If it had then Mike’s case could proceed. If it had not, then John Higgins ET AL could hide behind ecclesiastical law.

    More case can be shown.

    Yours in Christ,

    Chuck S

  62. Alex, while I understand your motivation to change the tone of the blog, I don’t understand why the heading above has been changed from “Calvary Chapel Abuse” to “Calvary Chapel News”. This blog began as a call to repentance for Bob Grenier, small business owner of Calvary Chapel Visalia, and countless testimonies along with the chain of events (Alex’s meeting with Chuck, Chuck lying from the pulpit, “Get a life Alex”, webcasts, child molesters arrested, lawsuits filed, etc) quickly revealed that the CC Movement stinks to it’s core. Maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t it still very much about exposing abuse and calling for repentance? “Calvary Chapel News” sounds like a nice little news page that would be found on CCCM’s website. Your blog, your rules, but I just wanted to say I miss the former heading.

    @Jeremy W: SICKENING that Higgins would respond to your suggestion for fingerprinting childcare workers with “No, if we started fingerprinting helpers less people would be willing to volunteer, and it would be a huge cost to the church that we can’t afford.” Only criminals would be unwilling to be fingerprinted, right? Hmmm, I wonder what the penalty is for businesses who don’t comply with child protection laws. Oh wait, none of them have been idiotic enough to do that… (at least not that I’ve heard of)

  63. I Heart Sheck

    To answer your question re name change, Alex and I had a wonderful and personal discussion some one month or so ago where, among others things, I thought using “Calvary Chapel Abuse” was misleading. I quit using my abs when I left the employ of Calvary Chapel. Alex’s response to this startling info was to reply, “that’s news to me”. ..hence the new name.

    Leaving for my son’s wedding in WA this Saturday. Now that is news. God bless and provide a balm to those hearts that need healing for this too shall pass.

  64. LOL :lol: Sheck.

    I Heart the Sheckster, I thought it a good idea to broaden the tent some and hope the softer headline will draw more CC’ites to read and hopefully learn from the issues we discuss…and hopefully the leaders of CC will respond in good ways to the issues brought here. I want to include all kinds of CC news when it hits the headlines as a news aggregator along with doing my own articles.

    Sheck, weddings are great…wishing you and yours a great time! Congrats to Sheck Jr.

  65. CC Senior pastor Bob G. boasts about how much money he is worth. Gag me with a spoon…

    http://pastorbobsblogs.blogspot.com/2009/01/cause-daughter.html

    …since you are now worth a lot of money and all ;)

  66. A Monsignor in the archdiocese of Philadelphia (PA) has recently been convicted on 1 count of felony child endangerment in an ongoing sex scandal involving said diocese.

    Some have said that it’s a watershed case because it’s the first time a high ranking clergyman has been successfully convicted as a felon.

    It ain’t over for CC until the fat lady sings, and she may not sing so good this time when the shrapnel quits flyin’ and the smoke clears.

  67. 501 3c question

    If east coast cc folds, who gets 2 mill building?

    Thanks

  68. I was reminiscing on my days in the Calvary Chapel Cult this afternoon. I was specifically thinking of an incident in Wilsey, Kansas; the planned location of Shiloh 2.0 and the Shiloh Youth Revival for teens. Before the children were to arrive a group of men was doing construction work around the properties. I was specifically thinking about when a group of us guys had to unclog the sewer lines that were deliberately sabotaged by somebody.

    Little background: Mr. Higgins did not get the wanted building, an old hardware store, for literally nickles and had to fork over thousands years later. There was a feud over control along with the Calvary Chapel name with another Calvary pastor. The assumption everyone was working off was the other cc pastor ended up selling the building to Mr. Higgins for a big profit, and was still so angry at John that he deliberately flushed dish rags down the toilets to clog the sewer.

    I am able to really laugh about this today and did get quite a chuckle thinking about it. You see here was the laborers out there, and we were figuratively and literally fixing Mr. Higgins excremate that he had created. It was a tough job but somebody had to FIX IT AND CLEAN IT UP. It had to be done. I see my experience is simply an analogy for the situation regarding these court documents. Now how many times has Chuck,CCCM and CCOF had to deal with and fix John’s excremate? These court papers are only one such documented incidence. How many other instances did CS PS CCCM or CCOF get forced to intervene? I would even allow y’all to use your toes for counting purposes. However may I suggest using tally marks? I find it’s easier keeping track of such big numbers.

  69. Looking forward to someone whose capable of answering David’s question. I certainly am not capable of answering, but very intrigued to hear the replies.

  70. Solomon Rodriguez says:
    June 26, 2012 at 1:39 pm
    Alex,

    It’s also done in a very crafty way. For example a Pastor will go on his Facebook and tell his followers that a certain country has been placed in his heart by God and then his followers will comment that he needs to listen to God and go visit said Country. So when he goes and spends the churches money he can always say that his congregation sent him out. All in the power of Suggestion

    ______________________________________

    And yet when said Pastor takes a few sheep from the congregation along with him to ” minister” and call it a an outreach mission trip the sheep must pay their own way for the privilege of going and “ministering” in the Church’s name…if the Church has millions in the bank why are the sheep made to pay out of their own pocket to ” minister” when the Pastor and his wife are not ? Some years back I went on such a trip with the Pastor and a few of the high school kids from the Church, we all paid our own way, except the pastor of course..as a matter of fact I paid my own $1500 AND another $1500 for individual who really wanted to go but didn’t have the money-I felt the Lord put it on my heart to do so, and I did it from the heart…but now that I look back with some clarity I was just a fool. This same Pastor did not say more then 10 words to me on the entire trip, because I am female and he was completely paranoid of Pastor/female conversation being taken as familiarity or whatever, that and or he didn’t like me much…I never knew what was going on as to agenda during the whole trip-I had to find out everything from the high school kids-who idolized him of course, This was of course the same Pastor who made fun of the foreign CC worshipers singing CC worship songs in their own tongue during worship service there-which I though sounded beautiful – he said ” it just sounds stupid ! “….Jesus heard that and I wonder what he thought of such a comment.

  71. V – thanks for sharing! I relate to: “…but now that I look back with some clarity I was just a fool.” You are not alone. I did my share also of playing the fool back when I was involved in CC. I guess we can be glad we can look back now with some clarity -

  72. David,

    When a 501C3 folds or rids itself of assets it is to donate it to another non-profit. Of course if it folds as in bankruptcy the bank can take it back if the church building is in default.

    As far as Calvary Chapel trips are concerned, let us look at Israel as an example. Let us say I am the pastor of local CC. I want to take a group to Israel. I tell you all that I have a great deal, it will only cost 3500 dollars. What I do not tell you is every 5th or 6th person goes for free. So I go for free, and so does my wife, children and their spouses. You who paid 3500 dollars have paid for our trips.

    Do the math, let us say every 6th person goes for free. Fiver people pay, but six go so 5 times 3500 is 17500. Now if I really cared about you saving money, and not just getting a free trip out of you, I would take 17500 and divide it by 6. This would mean I would have to pay my own way, but we all would save money. This would mean that the trip would cost 2917 dollars for each traveler and no one would go for free.

    So the next time you go on a CC trip look at the true cost. A group of you could buy the pastor’s videos at $60 or more (cost about less than $1 disk 10 disk= 10 dollars) and show his video at each site, just don’t take the pastor. You could arrange you own trip and save almost 600 dollars each.

    But if this is not enough incentive, let us say the pastor or his son has his won travel agency. As a travel agency all arrangements are made through you. Each time one of you tourists stay at a hotel, your agency gets a thank you in the form of $$$. Let us say you get a conservative 10 dollars per person per night (some estimates are up to $30). $10 at a group of 100 is $1000. Now multiply by 10 nights you get $10000. Now this money is given to the travel agency, but this would be taxable; so instead on returning to the states it is deposited in the churches account as a gift. Tax free. Now the one owning the travel agency takes this $10000 dollars out as salary for the ministry; tax free. Now I know this is hypothetical, but if it was being done, one would not want their books looked at if they were being sued for slander. Money laundering is frown upon.

    Of course I have not mentioned that this $100 dollar kick back could come off the trip’s cost thus lowering the rate to 2817 per person. God may bless you through this hypothetical trip, but the trip will not ble$$ you as much a$ it will ble$$ the pastor.

    The times of Laodicea are upon us.

    As I once said; I do not paint houses, but I know where the bodies are buried.

    Yours in Christ,

    Chuck

  73. Chuck-
    Did some study re: Cruise/Holmes divorce.
    Mark Rathbun, former Scientologist of 30 yrs has a blog discussing financial issues and non-profit org issues in regards to Cruise. (Tax free “gifts”,etc.)
    Many of the same issues we have been discussing where $ is concerned.

    We recently had a Pastor of a successful church ask for donations for a very expensive “missions” trip overseas with his young son. They are staying in a hotel and the list of expenses included “tours”
    Why doesn’t the church (or he himself) pay for these vacations/trips??
    Isn’t that what offerings are for?
    I understood that Pauls gifts from the churches in the epistles were for missions.
    So then why are missionaries or Pastors from the church able to collect from outside-send letters out to people to pay their way?
    Is this biblical? ISn’t that what people are giving for when they give?

    Many don’t know that when a church for example, goes on a cruise to Israel, all the Pastors and church employees go for free, while the unsuspecting “members” are charged 30% more to pay for them. I was surprised that so many ministries do this on the cruises. I wonder if the “members” would still go knowing this. I am all for “blessing” someone else, but why is this kept a secret?? For many yrs, many of the well-known TV Pastors (Swindoll, Stanley, etc.) have done the same.

    Maybe it is how Chuck explained it above.

  74. PS.
    My post seems to imply that we should not give to missionaries.
    That wasn’t my point.
    People are put in very uncomfortable positions when they receive these “letters” from friends aka Pastors asking to help them. Sometimes it is very hard to say “no” and not give. When you think about all their perks, and how hard you work and how little vacations you take, compared to how much vacation time they get (weeks at a time for “missions”aka vacations) they seem to be in much better shape financially then those they are asking from.

  75. Hannah,

    I understood you message. Cruises are not missions. My son is on a mission this summer. He paid his way. No pastor with him. He was hooked up with churches in the area and lives with the people. He has started to learn the language this way. He is living the culture. He is one his own. Interesting no hotels, tours or fancy restaurants involved.

    On another note Christian cruises are fun, maybe rejuvenating, but they are not ministry. Recently my youngest daughter went on a youth retreat of a friend of hers church. On the way home the youth pastors son asked her if that was the best retreat she had ever been on. See said no! When asked why she told him: “The best retreats I have been on have been with my churches. We have one Bible study on the need to serve each evening, but during the day we are serving in the community.” She continued, “On these retreats I have cut wood with an axe. Learned how to build a fire line. And I helped a church recover from a devastating fire to its building. These are the best retreats I’ve been on. I have served not told to serve.”

    Perhaps she’s onto something. Let us quit seeking blessings and start to bless others. Then pastors will have less opportunity to take advantage of us, because we will not look to them to be our “Cruise directors of pleasure.”

    Yours,

    Chuck

  76. A generic drug (generic drugs, short: generics) is a drug defined as “a drug product that is comparable to brand/reference listed drug product in dosage form, strength, route of administration, quality and performance characteristics, and intended use.” It has also been defined as a term referring to any drug marketed under its chemical name without advertising.

    Is there such a thing called a generic Calvary Chapel? If you recall, I believe CCOF was responsible for the de-doving of Calvary Chapel Ocean City, NJ with Tim Stokes a few years ago because of his teaching style. Now CCphilly is adverstising a new Calvary Chapel a few blocks away from still operating de-doved renamed Coastal Christian Ocean City church. This new church called Calvary Chapel Gateway is not listed with CCOF on their website. Whats the deal with this? If CCphilly is fully endorsed as Calvary Chapel under CCOF does it imply that any church CCPhilly also endorses an official Calvary Chapel? This looks like some kind of multi-level marketing to me.

  77. V Said:

    “And yet when said Pastor takes a few sheep from the congregation along with him to ” minister” and call it a an outreach mission trip the sheep must pay their own way for the privilege of going and “ministering” in the Church’s name…if the Church has millions in the bank why are the sheep made to pay out of their own pocket to ” minister” when the Pastor and his wife are not ? Some years back I went on such a trip with the Pastor and a few of the high school kids from the Church, we all paid our own way, except the pastor of course..as a matter of fact I paid my own $1500 AND another $1500 for individual who really wanted to go but didn’t have the money-I felt the Lord put it on my heart to do so, and I did it from the heart…but now that I look back with some clarity I was just a fool. This same Pastor did not say more then 10 words to me on the entire trip, because I am female and he was completely paranoid of Pastor/female conversation being taken as familiarity or whatever, that and or he didn’t like me much…I never knew what was going on as to agenda during the whole trip-I had to find out everything from the high school kids-who idolized him of course, This was of course the same Pastor who made fun of the foreign CC worshipers singing CC worship songs in their own tongue during worship service there-which I though sounded beautiful – he said ” it just sounds stupid ! “….Jesus heard that and I wonder what he thought of such a comment.”

    Yup! Par for the course! Ravenous wolves
    Ravenous-1. famished; starving
    2. rapacious; voracious

  78. I’m glad I no longer attend any Calvarys but the sad thing is that their a lot of people in the pupit that need better pastors than they are getting at Calvary Chapel. Sad

  79. I have been reading Samuel lately. We all know the story of Eli and his sons. The sons were blatantly desecrating the temple sacrifices, the people knew it (story after story made its way to Eli’s ear). Eli eventually confronted his boys behavior but did nothing to stop them from continuing. God knew about the boys horrific deeds, and did not strike them down in their shameful acts. Eli knew about the shameful activity and did not strike down his sons. The people knew about Eli’s sons terrible behavior, and they did not strike down the boys. Then God said to Samuel, he was going to deal with it. He waited longer…then he struck down the boys, and judged Eli’s family.

    Bob Grenier will not get away with his misdeeds. Like Eli’s family, he lives off the fat that is to be sacrificed to God alone. He plans trips so he can go free, he drives expensive cars, he expenses his whole life to the church. He lives very loosely with church finances. Enough of the CC people know this. It is no secret. Enough of the City of Visalia, knows about his hypocritical lifestyle. The stories abound from one church to another. Chuck Smith knows about the accusations of desecrating behavior, and did nothing to stop Grenier’s actions. But remember, like Eli’s situation, God has been aware of it all long ago. And he will deal with it. The reliability of Scripture assures us of that.

  80. Something I’ve heard CS state on several occasions over the years:

    “The wheels of justice move exceedingly slow, but they grind exceedingly fine.”

    Seems kind of prophetic these days.

    And sad.

  81. To Sheck and Alex re: 63 and 64: Thank you both for the explanation. To help newcomers grasp the big picture, I think it would be a great idea to make a page showing a summary/timeline of events, starting with Bob’s misdeeds and your efforts at reconciliation.

    And Sheck, you may want to re-think your position on ab use. The six-pack is a proclamation to the world that you are a true believer. After all, how could anyone with more than 10% body fat think that they are providing a suitable temple? But really, lordosis and lumbago will punk you. I hope the wedding was elysian.

  82. So how can the court reconcile the CC self-proclaimed ecclesiastical bologna with the ruling that CCCM has no responsibility? Is there an appeal in the works? And Alex, are you able to share any updates on BG? Are the feds closing in on him yet?

  83. Fellow travelers to the east, often have eyes wide shut.

  84. Re: Pjay @ 51 said, “Grateful, I know your fallen CCSP. Sad story. I wasn’t aware he is starting to get back into the “business.”

    Interesting… then I assume you must know the lot of them in the area who participated in the takeover, as well?

    Yes, our former CC pastor, now fallen, is getting back into the biz after only a few short months on hiatius, slowly, with feigned humility. After talking with some who attend his meetings, I asked why he hasn’t taken any steps to begin making amends with all the people he publicly hurt, privately hurt, and why he hasn’t taken step one to repay all the money he stole? … just for starters. It didn’t take long till some blinders fell off of some of his loyal followers.

    He continues to tell people one on one that he’s “protecting” his wife, whom he accused of having and affair with the youth leader. He’s not protecting her (no evidence ever found to back up his accusations which she and the youth leader deny,) rather throwing her under the bus in an attempt to protect himself from his own admission of unfaithfulness with other women. (3 came forward saying he was pursuing them all at the same time last year.) Yet, just a month after supposedly repenting (after getting caught) he declared his marriage to be the best ever.

    Truly sad…

    But when I watch the CC pastor in the mountains aid and abed him, it disturbs me even more. When Ed Taylor (CC pastor of Aurora) says that the fallen pastor can be a pastor again because, “once called, always called” is invoked, I was grieved. Does nothing disqualify a person from leadership in CC’s eyes? I believe in grace … for the repentant … who’ve demonstrated it in a deep and meaningful way, that requires time and healed relationships. But sometimes one just can’t go back into the position to serve.

    The fallen CC pastor was caught with his hand in the till ($260K in just one year) and should NEVER be put in charge of any monies ever again. He got caught with 3 women at the same time, and should never be put into a position of shepherding women again. He cannot be an example to the men, except in how to repent … which is a worthy ministry, but not in the pastoral position.

    Pjay, I appreciate several of you posts on here. Your recount of what was required of you as pastor was informative and disturbing. Glad you are out and contributing to the healing of others.

  85. Mr. Malta, please do tell …

  86. Grateful,

    Does the congregation know about this Pastor’s infidelities?

  87. Hi Hannah,

    Yes, the congregation was told. First, it was told at Christmas, but then the details of the theft of money and the fact that three women came forward after the fact, was made public a few months ago. They did not make that public until this fallen unrepentant CC pastor started up a “Community Prayer Meeting” drawing people from the church who did not understand what all he’s guilty of and what all he’s unrepentant about.

  88. I just wanted to thank you for posting the documents filed in the AZ lawsuit. Having been connected with CCTC at the time the lawsuit came out,I know how confusing it was to figure out what was true and what was fiction. Knowing what Mike was suing TC for clarified the situation, not only for me, but for some teens who greatly looked up to Mike and were so troubled and distraught at the allegations.

    I have been out of CC for 6 years now, and would never attend another one. It is wonderful to be free from the authoritarian atmosphere and to not feel pressure to conform to the Calvary mold. I am so sorry for those who have been wounded. I experienced my own painful situation at CC,and though it took time, counseling and much soul searching and prayer, I can truly say that God used it for good. It’s my hope and prayer that all who have been hurt will someday be able to say this as well.

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