Dec 032012
 

Calvary Chapel Pastor Bob Grenier, suing son for a “hate campaign” and “cyberbullying” led a Campaign against Phil Aguilar of Set Free Fellowship/Ministries in 1993 claiming it was the duty of the “church” to police it’s own and citing the many serious allegations surrounding Aguilar. Why is Bob Grenier getting special treatment in this case? Is it his close ties with the law enforcement community? Why is a Campaign exposing Phil Aguilar righteous whereas speaking out about Bob Grenier is wrong?

File under Irony and Hypocrisy.

A Document has emerged that proves the very coordinated Campaign (hate campaign?) that Bob Grenier, the Calvary Chapel Visalia Pastor mired in his own abuse and corruption controversy, led against Phil Aguilar and Set Free Ministries in 1993.

My brother Paul Grenier personally witnessed this effort behind the scenes. I witnessed it as well in various pieces. I recall Bob having some sort of falling out with Phil Aguilar and then I recall Bob going around the Visalia Community drumming up support from local Pastors (their names are included on the Document) to Publicly Warn and Publicly Rebuke Phil Aguilar and Set Free Ministries about the various serious allegations swirling around as told by former members, employs, assistants of that ministry.

The Press Release dated “October 28, 1993″ and titled “An Open Letter to Churches, School Districts, Civic Organizations and People of the Southern San Joaquin Valley” was widely distributed and pushed hard by Grenier over the course of many months.

The result was that Aguilar and Set Free Ministries was effectively barred and shunned from the Visalia Community…and Bob claimed it was what Scripture commands us to do when there are these sorts of issues surrounding a “ministry” and a Pastor.

Read if for yourself. You’ll see Bob Grenier’s name on the Document listed second. Paul and I personally witnessed Bob as the front-runner on this Campaign and I recall Bob wanting to be listed second to give an appearance of humility.

Important question to the general public, to Detectives who are following this stuff, to the legal community, to the Church at large: Is Bob’s Campaign a “hate campaign” and “bullying”? Or was it “righteous” and the right thing to do and the duty of those who did it, especially since as they note in the Document:

“This is made all the more urgent by the access that Set Free Fellowship has been given to children in this community and throughout our valley……. We realize that this correspondence is an extreme act and it is taken only after intense prayer and with the overwhelming conviction that it is the church’s responsibility to clean up it’s own laundry.

We write because we are concerned for the welfare of our community and the safety of our children. We hope to still be part of a process that can either affirm or refute the accusations brought against Phil Aguilar and Set Free Fellowship. We are especially touched by the cry of those whose current or past association with this group has been a source of hurt or exploitation.”

What say you? Why are my calls for a full investigation, my warning, my rebukes, my exposing the wrongdoing, my lobbying the Community, the Church, Calvary Chapel etc. a “hate campaign” and “cyberbullying”…but Bob Grenier’s Campaign was “righteous”? They practically gave Bob a medal in Visalia for leading this charge. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I’m being sued and shunned and smeared and threatened, etc.

Click on the Link below to access the Document that was pushed widely in the Visalia area and South San Joaquin Valley of California by Bob Grenier and the Group of Pastors listed on the document. Bob was, at the time, Immanuel Christian Fellowship, during a brief stint where he left Calvary Chapel:

Bob Grenier Campaign against Phil Aguilar and Set Free Fellowship press release

  74 Responses to “Bob Grenier sues for “hate campaign” yet led Campaign against Phil Aguilar and Set Free Ministries. Document states they are a “threat to the community”, “allegations of abuse…lying…sexual misconduct…no financial accountability” etc.”

  1. Yes, very ironic, isn’t it?! And why will BG’s own elder board not even talk personally to the sons making these accusations? The elder board has a LOT to answer to God for. This is WRONG!! And you know what the answer is to why they won’t speak to the accusers? Arrogance and pride. They think that they are being persecuted! For being so biblical. For teaching the Word. They don’t have to listen because they are doing God’s will. Because they are the ONLY ones that really teach the Word. All the people whose lives have been turned upside down and whose hearts have been broken into a million pieces are in sin. All the people who can’t trust another pastor or church because the very fabric of what they believed in has been shattered.

    And please…..I don’t want to hear any of the christianese and christian cliches about how you have to trust God and not man, man will always let you down. I’ve heard it all and I know it all. And hey, I believe it, too. Those words don’t help when your heart is broken. They’re only empty words. God comforts us through other believers and those words are just ways to excuse the behavior.

    CC pastors are probably some of the worst, uncompassionate men I have met. And, believe me, I know many well.

    If you read this and think I am bitter, think again. I am angry. I am hurt. Thankfully I have many friends who are true believers and not just arrogant, hypocritical jerks who think that they only answer to God and not man. These friends give me faith and hope that there are still loving followers of Christ.

    Okay, I feel better now. Rant over!!

  2. summer, yes. Bob Grenier demands that Phil Aguilar sit with him and answer all the allegations that surrounded Aguilar…but when the shoe is on the other foot Bob Grenier hides behind his Stone Wall and files lawsuits.

    What a HYPOCRITE and liar.

  3. Where are these same pastors, who stood with bob, now? Why aren’t they men enough to take a stand against him like they did against Aguilar?

    Come on Visalia Pastors. This is one of your own. You know what he is Accused of. Stand again.

    If 3 children in your church claimed physical and sexual abuse happened to them wouldn’t you do something about it?

  4. Not Alone, those same “pastors” will now say “don’t judge!” “not our responsibility!” “we just can’t know the facts!” and any number of excuses…because Bob Grenier is their BUDDY and BG is very politically connected and is BFF’s with law enforcement etc.

    Bob’s just got better PR than Aguilar. Aguilar is more in your face about the stuff, while BG is a really good con man in my opinion.

  5. Bob Grenier in his own words in his book “A Common Miracle”, a book endorsed by recent District Attorney Phil Cline, former Visalia Police Chief Barker, current Tulare County Sheriff Bill Wittman etc etc

    describes himself as a drug dealer and drug smuggler.

    Bob Grenier describes how good he was at fooling people and describes his double life. He describes how he flew the Lt. Governor of Florida around, all while smuggling drugs and using illegal drugs.

    Takes a lot of skill to fool people at that level.

    Bob’s got the skills. I know him well, I lived with him. He could con an eskimo into buying snow from him.

  6. Summer, can not tell you how comforting your righteous indignation is, water to my soul. Everything you said is so right and not any of them would dare to a face to face and challenge this. May God put all who throw the usual defenses at us be put in immediate spiritual head lock, don’t know what that means or looks like but, so be it.

    Oh yes, cc does feel that they are the church of Philadelphia, and being persecuted. Poor God, He was up in heaven biting his nails, what to do, what to do, no good churches and wow powie here along came Chuck to save the day. Boy was that a close call. Who else thinks Laodicea may just think they are Philadelphia…. because you say I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing NOT realizing you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked….

    I challenge any and all you cc ties to ask God to put you and your children/grandchildren in some of our shoes, our pain, our hell we have walked in so you can easily prove that you would have no problems recovering. Go ahead swallow that pill, but be careful how you stand lest you fall.

    Another thing, funny what bad characters cc has attracted in the past, how does that keep happening…spiritual maybe?

  7. ” We realize that this correspondence is an extreme act and it is taken only after intense prayer and with the overwhelming conviction that it is the church’s responsibility to clean up it’s own laundry.”

    Oh, the irony.. it makes my head reel.

    I know nothing of the Set Free ministry, but if this was a vindictive attack from Bob G., he should read his bible more.

    “Do not be fooled, God will not be mocked. You reap what you sow.”

    “Treat others as you would treat yourselves.”

    God just turned the tables around on Bob Grenier. Does anyone else see the poetic justice in all this?
    It boggles the mind how anyone who has read this blog can still support him But they continue to do so…

    It’s a reminder to me that people do not attend church to worship Jesus, that is secondary to them. They are there for other reasons.

  8. Kathy,

    I have a very close friend who hung with Phil as things began to come to light years ago, and trust me this is not the kind of man you would ever want to point to and say, look to him as he looks to Christ.

  9. Wow, are you serious? Lol I just dont know what to say. Its kind of ironic.

    I NEED TO PROCESS THIS

  10. Ok so let me go over this in my mind…. did he sign a letter to be circulated that those who do those things should be exposed and that the public needs to be warned? Hmmmmm

  11. So he never actually talked to him, or personally experienced the abuse but he felt led after much prayer to expose and warn the public. Hmmmmm And so this guy Phil was using money for personal gain, abusing the flock, etc. Hmmmm treating women poorly, etc Hmmmm

    And the public should be warned…. ok just had to get it straight in my mind

  12. Pretty ironic, isn’t it Tina?

    With Bob, it’s lots of former staff, pastors, bookkeepers and even his own family members.

    When Bob is “doing the right thing” with regards to Phil, it’s the duty of him and his fellow pastors in Visalia.

    When it’s Bob who is doing the wrongdoing, it’s “GOSSIP!” “MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!” “LEAVE IT TO THE LORD!” etc etc etc

    Pretty neat trick Bob continues to get away with.

  13. I’m going to share a dream I had about a year ago…

    I was walking by this building that appeared to be a court house. There was a homeless man just standing on the steps. As I approached him, I said to myself, “He looks like Bob.” I called his name and as he looked at me he was almost unrecognizable. But one thing was clear he had love and peace in his eyes. GOD HAD CHANGED HIM. I asked him how he was doing. He said, “Well I’m doing ok but as you can see I lost it all.” He began to explain his regret and everything that led to that. We parted ways and I was glad to see that God had changed him but sad that it took what it did to bring humility.

  14. Olivia @ 5 “May God put all who throw the usual defenses at us be put in immediate spiritual head lock, don’t know what that means or looks like but, so be it.”

    ROTFLOL—-in my minds eye, I see these being paralyzed not being able to move or to speak a lie less they become repulsed by their own corruption.

    I have known Phil Aguilera since he began “Set Free.” Many things have happened in this church and its ministry that have led to alot of controversy reqarding questionable behavior within its leadership and methods in getting people to listen to the gospel. What more he does have a past that would scare most people away from him. He is definitely not the typical looking CC Pastor wearing the Hawaiian shirts, but definitely exemplifies that which is commonly found among hardcore bikers and the prison population with all its slang, gang attitude, and leadership structuring. But he did make a good “shot caller” and that is evident by the growth of Set Free throughout the years gone by.

    I have never been a part of Set Free, but living in the same area that he did and being such a part of ministry, I was quite acquainted with them. When I heard that he was forced out of Visalia, I was amazed as Phil usually have been able to developed a pretty good rapport with the police and other city officials. What more, I think how ironic because at one time, Chuck Smith thought it nothing to have Phil and his gang to take on a security role for many of its events, including the men conferences.

    So when I think about BG running Phil out of town, knowing about BGs own trouble past and unresolved issues with his children, I can’t help but think how utterly difficult it must have been for Alex and his brother to live in a household that was so abusive and a church and community that was so blind. I think, my Lord and my God—-may You now show everyone that you are the Father that you are to those whom have been abused and left to die by the roadside wrought by evil men who are cowards. May this time around, Lord, your might and your power wreak hell upon the souls of those who have practiced to deceive and to protect those who have abuse these little ones as they cried out for help, but no one heard and never bothered to even care to listen.

  15. Tina,

    The dream you had: is often the end of many who are so fortunate to have finally lost it all, so that they could be “set free” from the very bondage that kept them in fear of having to lose what was keeping them in bondage all along: money, power, and sex (PMS), a person who is addicted and self absorbed, believing, that they are immune, untouchable, and ever so loved by those they have in reality only exploited.

    How close this person has come to being turned over by God to a reprobate mind, one does not know. But to have lost everything and knowing why, yet claiming the mercy of the Lord and acknowledging God as His Lord and His Savior is more than just a miracle, it is the reality that many perish not ever healing or coming to grips with the cold, callous, heart that was seared in the conscious simply because when given the opportunity they chose to protect and to defense that which was destroying themselves and others instead.

    They maintained and worshipped the image they conjured up in their mind about who they exploited others to believe what they were not, while silencing those who could have led them into that which would have healed their hearts in the first place. Real love, real mercy, real grace, and real repentance. How uttterly tragic and profound your dream was. Hopefully, it serves as a prophecy and a warning to those who are on this path.

  16. Matthew 16?
    New Living Translation (©2007)
    And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul?

    Tina’s dream reminds me of this Scripture.

  17. Losing it all would be a gift.

  18. Here’s another interesting article about Set Free

    http://www.apologeticsindex.org/704-abusive-churches-a-view-from-within

    Set Free was bad news, an abusive church, definitely a cult. Can’t fault Grenier for calling them out.

  19. Kathy, good to know you are searching these things out. Did you know that most of the charges were dismissed? Unfortunately for Phil and his group, they do live on the edge while using worldly devices to capture the attention of those in the world.

    In this situation involving his arrest and charges made I believe most, if not all were dismissed. As far as I know, this was the most recent event that drew negative attention from the press on this group. Here’s more infomation.

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/setfree/setfree23.html

  20. So with what Alex had posted along with the article written by the Rick Ross link telling us about Oden Fong and Chuck Smith, it appears to me that they were all up in their neck in busying themselves in the affairs of a church that was not a CC affiliate. Yet somehow, BG managed to make himself out to be the “good Pastor” saving the entire community of Visalia from the likes of who?

    Smoke and Mirrors

  21. Uriah, exactly.

    Chuck Smith, Bob Grenier, Calvary Chapel lies through their teeth.

    Chuck Smith told me he “has no responsibility or control” has exercised no responsibility or control etc etc blah, blah, blah, excuse after excuse for not dealing with Bob Grenier saying he can’t and just can’t know, doesn’t do that sort of thing, “it’s in the past” forgive and forget etc.

    Yet, Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel led a “Campaign” you could certainly call it, against Phil Aguilar and Set Free.

    Liars. Hypocrites.

    How come when they do it it’s not “Gossip!” “Judging!” “Divisive!” and evil and wrong and “Mind your own business!” “we’re all sinners!” “your bitter and unloving!” and “we just can’t know who is telling the truth” etc etc and all the lying excuses they give for not dealing with BG.

    This issue of Aguilar and Set Free exposes the Calvary Chapel HYPOCRISY, Lying and Duplicity like none other.

  22. Why is it that when Chuck Smith, Bob Grenier and Calvary Chapel deal with sin in the church, and not even their own Denomination….it’s “a work of the Lord!” and “righteous!” and “protecting the flock!” etc and they get a medal.

    Yet, when they are the perps, it’s “TEARING DOWN A WORK OF THE LORD!” etc etc.

  23. Pretty cool gig to be Calvary Chapel. You can pick and choose and reframe stuff however you want and you get away with it no problem, all the time.

  24. Alex,

    This is why it is difficult for me to believe that Chuck Smith wasn’t this way from the start of incorporating CC. I believe that his alliance with Lonnie was viewed as a in to a population that was ready to hear a message that fell just short of real repentance, because, if it had been then there would have been more saved and less converts, particularly among those in leadership positions. Many say that Calvary Chapel started out well, but in time success got their nose opened. I don’t believe this is the case at all. My understanding of how these things evolves simply does not prove this out. The seed of deception was already in place long before the tent was raised on Sunflower street. I think Mr. Smith played off of the egos of young men and woman, leading them into believing that they could be secured in Romans 7—and only applied Romans 8 when he needed in to bury the competitiion or whistleblower. Too bad, because in spite of this, God still used this to bring people to Him. But now, we who have become mature in the word see these things and God is now using us as result of these wrongs committed to reach back and to warn and to bring about such that should have been rectified in Chuck Smith’s heart a long time ago—IMO, that is.

    Many people have come through the doors of Calvary Chapels, but few have remained. Most are new converts and those that remain appear to be either blind, lame, or just unwilling to pick up their cross and bear the burden of standing up for what is right and according to scripture in addressing the problems that seem much easier to address in if it is not in your own backyards, so to speak.

  25. The letter that bob wrote about Aguilar describes BOB perfectly! I know that the other pastors that signed the letter with him are CHOOSING to ignore that bob has spiritually abused hundreds of people (in my opinion and personal experience) in our community with his terrible “counseling” and gossip AND his awful teaching! I know a couple of these pastors personally and this is quite disappointing that they would believe bob, one person, and call all of us liars. I personally experienced being yelled at by bob in his office because I asked him a theological question. I have family members that were lied to and manipulated by bob and other leaders. The women running the show at Calvary Chapel Visalia are hateful gossips and downright cruel, calling other women crazy and telling others to stay away from these unsuspecting so-called crazy women from their own fellowship. I know countless people that have stories much worse than mine.

    Anyone that has left Calvary Chapel Visalia has been a victim of a hate campaign. bob calls pastors of other churches when he finds out where we are trying to worship to give warning about US!

    What is wrong with the PASTORS in this community? They have no spiritual discernment whatsoever and I do know that at least 3 of the pastors on this list claim to operate in the gifts of prophecy. These prophetical pastors need to LISTEN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT! These pastors need to wonder why they get so many calls from Bob Grenier, pastor of Calvary Chapel Visalia.

  26. Your Mom,

    They signed it because birds of a feather flocks together. That letter (IMO) did not go out without the seal of approval from Chuck Smith. Therefore, in turn this gave every pastor in the CC conglomerate permission to proceed and to behave accordingly. What more, it was seen as the way to distract from one’s own problems within their own company by pointing the finger elsewhere. So by doing so, it got rid of dissenters, or at least quieted them while gaining support from government and local officials.

    Someone once told me that “water seeks its own level.” It took me a long time to figure that one out, but as I learned more about CC and going through several different that involved the leadership, this adage became more apparent to me. CC draws certain personalities that will support and mimic those in control. Anything short of this simply will not survive the Mose’s Model of theocracy or corporate structure. It’s has nothing to do with God, but is soley built upon the pride and arrogance of man’s gradiose entitlements. I think about how Chuck Smith permitted David Hocking to become a CC Pastor within a short time of admitting that he was an adulterer. I think about how now it is common practice to divorce one’s wife or to carry on an adulteress affair while sitting next to Chuck on his radio program giving out “scriptural” answers. I think about how CC have permitted adulterers to speak on family matters and how speakers who have committed adultery to have their speaking engagement postponed until their divorce, that they have filed is finalized. I think about the abuse and the neglect of women and children that takes place in CC while husbands get ready to become a pastor themselves, or are pastoring a congregation. I think about children and women within CC who are seen as someone to cater to their husbands ego’s and whims. I see woman being bullied, ignored, and literally left homeless and hungry because they refused to remain silent regarding being betrayed and abused. I hear of staff members being bullied, threatened, terrorized and worse, but what I don’t get is this—-if I hear and have witnessed these things, then why earth or rather how in the world is it that the leadership does not acknowledge these things as well. Because it is impossible for them truthfully say, they did not know about these things as well. And this alone tells me that CC and its leadership across the board have learned from the core to behave according to whence it first was conceived—that is, Chuck Smith himself. No man who has managed to build CC up in the manner that this has been can be said to be ignorant of such abuses and betrayals. Any more than BG could have generated such a letter without the permission and cosensus of those who thinks and run their own CC likewise. At least, this is what CC and its leadership has taught me to come to believe.

  27. @ 26 Correction: “through several different SITUATIONS that involved”

  28. Uriah: I read the article you posted and Set Free is an abusive church, actually, it’s the most abusive church I’ve ever read about. Aguilar is the epitome of someone using God’s Glory for their own personal use. My heart aches to think that these bikers finally found something worth living for, Jesus Christ, only to find themselves in an abusive situation with a guy trying to be a demi-god instead of a servant in Christ. The raid on 2010 may have been the only legal “crime” that the police could tag them for, but there are countless other crimes before God and his fellow brothers.

    I’m no fan of Grenier, but he had every right to drive him out of town, and I would’ve backed him in the endeavor.

  29. Alex: not to take away from your post, but I agree, if Calvary Chapel can get passionate enough about Set Free to drive it out of town, then it can do something about the allegations you put forth on Bob Grenier.

  30. At the time, BG was not part of CC. This seems to speak more about BG than Chuck Smith; however I am sure Chuck knows about this lawsuit now. For Chuck to basically give a thumbs up to this lawsuit by his silence speaks louder than anything. I cannot help but think Chuck is behind all of this now in one way or another.

  31. Kathy,

    “may have been the only legal “crime” that the police could tag them for, but there are countless other crimes before God and his fellow brothers.”

    Have you listened to the radio program that Alex did with Remnant and that involved Alex speaking directly to Chuck?

    What you have stated about Aguilar is also true for CC. You don’t even need to go very far in figuring this one out when you think about 3 boys and their mother being abused, molested, and beaten. Just because the statute of limitation ran out does not excuse CC from removing such a person that is in leadership—right?

    As I stated I know Phil Aguilar as well as being quite familiar with CC shannigans. To me, they are quite similar in many respect—they just dress differently. Please keep in mind that it is not unusual for a CC Pastor to have come out of an alcohol and drug addicted lifestyle themselves, which means they have also done things that are quite corrupted and destructive to themselves as well as to their families and community at large. Just because they may not be using this particlar drug of choice, they can still be very narcissistic and behaving as a dry drunk and remain just as abusive as before, but in a more sophisticated and underhanded manner. Their addiction has just changed, but it still has to do with not being able to attach to others in a much healthier manner. It is still about power, control, and attention. I think in this, even the corruptible parts of Phil Aguilar he is far more honest than the facade that is exhibited by many (not all) who are passing themselves off as CC Pastors—

    I was thinking about if I would have signed such a petition.. Perhaps, before I learned what I now know about CC, I may have—-I don’t know. But yeah, I probably would have done this. But now, be older, wiser and more experienced, I’ve learn to check things out and to find out firsthand as much as possible before signing on with anyone when it has to do with a group that I don’t affiliate with. I’m just not so quick to throw stones when things my own church has failed to clean up their own house, so to speak. Not when the corruption starts all the way back to the person who sometimes says that he is in charge and at other times he says its not his responsibilty to “dissaffilate” a pastor when it does not suit his personal gain.

  32. Andrew @ 30

    I’m confused, please explain: “At the time, BG was not part of CC.

    As far as I know BG has been a part of CC since “leaving his former drug lifestyle.”

  33. Oden Fong is the Calvary Chapel pastor leading the crusade against Set Free at the mothership. I’m going to write him a nasty email asking him why he has devoted so much attention and energy to Set Free while CC Visalia is being ignored. I’m also going to direct him to this site and ask him the hard questions about CC Golden Springs and Raul Ries.

    Does anyone have Oden Fong’s email?

    You can no longer email pastor on calvary chapel dot com? Wow…. when did this come about? Talk about the pastors distancing themselves from the people.

    Alex: the precendence set by Set Free may just be the crack in the door for you. After they’re done with Set Free, they have no more excuses why they can’t devote their resources to investigate CC Visalia.

  34. Uriahisaliveandwell@32 wrote “As far as I know BG has been a part of CC since “leaving his former drug lifestyle.”

    I am referring to what Alex wrote in the article above.

    “Bob was, at the time, Immanuel Christian Fellowship, during a brief stint where he left Calvary Chapel:”

  35. Andrew @ 30

    Please explain, because as far as I understand by BG’s site, he tells us that he’s been part of CC since comeing out of the former drug lifestyle he was in.

    Kathy, excellent point on CC supporting Alex. Please go to Alex’s blog with Remnant Radio. In spite of the evidence presented to Chuck Smith and the accounts witnessed by many others, during this discussion Alex had with Chuck on this program, Chuck told Alex basically it wasn’t any of his business and that Alex should get a life.

  36. Uriahisaliveandwell @32

    I don’t have any more information than what Alex has posted.

  37. Andrew,
    bob was a part of Calvary Chapel. He changed the name to Emmanuel Christian Fellowship after he was asked to leave the Calvary Chapel franchise when he was
    teaching Systematic Theology (Calvinism). He never really left, just changed his theology back and forth and was let back into Calvary Chapel a couple years later. Of course, the congregation was never told this! We all found out years later.

  38. Sorry for posting twice–it seems as if each time I get on this site–my system starts doing some rather strange things when hitting the submit button.

    Andrew,

    Huh, didn’t catch that until you pointed it out. At the same time, though the letter was benched upon what Calvary Chapel-Oden Fong has initiated per Chuck Smith, so now I would want to know what was in place that caused BG not to be a CC affiliate. Was this during the time that he decided to teach calvinistically (new word, I just made up) instead, or something else? Or does this really matter since, neither BG or CC did what they should have done in taking care of their own injured children instead of calling the kettle black.

    Like Alex stated: Liars and hypocrites, of the worse kind, I might add being pastors and called to set a much better example for us all and to not bring shame to the cross. A quote that I have heard them many times say to others when railing on someone who is attempting to speak the truth but they are seeking to silence or to avoid having to give an account.

  39. Kathy,
    Many of us sent letters to the so-called Calvary Chapel watchdog and our letters were handed over to Bob. Didn’t do a whole lotta good.

  40. That would be: The pot calling the kettle black, in case anyone needs to look it up.

  41. Your Mom,

    Interesting! So do you think Chuck Smith would want to hide this fact purposely? If BG was asked to leave the Calvary Chapel franchise because of Calvinism, maybe this information would have been used in a lawsuit. I am thinking of the Iglasia case. After all, it appears Chuck will never ask BG to leave the Calvary Chapel franchise now. I hope all of this gets exposed soon.

  42. Thanks Mom for clearing this up. It has been said that I had a memory like a steel trap, so it through for a loop when Andrew threw this out there.

    Alex, would be a good time to post or put the link to that radio program you did with Remnant and had the discussion with Chuck.

  43. Urrrrgh-getting frustrated with myself–must be getting tired.

    “so it (through) threw me for a loop when Andrew threw stated this.

    Also, wow, never even told the congregation—-that’s a trip, but then again the congregation has never been considered a part of the church, I mean company, I mean, well you know an enitity that has a voice in what does or does not go on anyway.

    That is with the exception of warning others what will happen to them if they rock the boat by bringing a little light into the darkness of their own shady and abusive practices.

  44. Thanks Uriah, will do.

    Hi “Your Mom”! good to see you :-)

  45. Wait, did Oden Fong leave CC awhile ago?

  46. Oden Fong is still connected to CC, but he is not the head of CCOF anymore.

    Was Calvary Chapel conducting a “hate campaign” against Phil Aguilar? Was it “bullying” to expose the testimonies of those hurt by him? Was it “evil” to speak out against him?

  47. Thanks, Alex. I just googled him and realized my mistake.

    Bob Grenier was right to investigate the serious allegations against Phil. Chuck Smith / Calvary Chapel and local Visalian pastors & believers should investigate the serious allegations against Bob Grenier. There’s lots of people and facts to work with!

  48. #46 – I remember Calvary Chapel pastors campaigning against Phil A. It was going on strong in places like Lake Elsinore, CA. too. The pastor there, John, along with Oden Fong and others campaigned heavily against Phil A. in Lake Elsinore and the whole Temecula Valley. They did succeed and prevented Set Free from setting up there. I didn’t know Phil A. but I did know someone involved with his group and this person’s friends who were helped by his ministry. His ministry was not “bad” to them, but the CC pastors who campaigned were heavy duty as I remember against P.A. I remember Chuck mentioning that Alex wanted to “bring down” BG, as if that was so wierd or something, but CC definitely was out to expose and bring down Phil A. and Set Free. They felt it was scriptural to make it their business. Good points Alex!

  49. From experience, I can tell you that one should steer clear and then some from Phil Aguilar, Set Free and their gang of goons called the “God Squad!.”

    Having said that, if Bob Grenier hasn’t done anything wrong, you’d think he would be more than willing to give account regarding the accusations against him.

    C’mon Bob, what are you afraid of?

  50. You could say the same for Chuck Smith… What’s he afraid of?

  51. BG’s got lots to hide, which is why he wouldn’t agree to sit downs many many times i’ve requested them at the local level and then at Mothership level etc.

    Bob Grenier and Chuck Smith/CC said Aguilar was to have a sit down and answer their charges and their 318 page report and results of their ‘investigation” etc…but not Bob Grenier, even though I’ve got a similar amount of first-person testimonies etc.

    Frickin’ hypocrites and liars.

  52. Take a tip from Martin Luther, who when he had grievances against the Catholic Church, it didn’t use a fake name. Here I stand. People who make serious criminal accusations against the body of Christ online and hide behind usernames are cowards.

  53. Excuse me, CRypTIC usernames.

  54. This Hate Campaign father-vs-son lawsuit may finally set a precedent for those who also use CRypTIC usernames to slander churches and pastors.

  55. Keith (or whatever your real name is), your attempt at intimidation here is baseless and powerless. Bring something of substance to the table and you’ll be engaged.

  56. Oh wait… Keith, is your name Bob?

  57. Remember Gentle readers, one must say something that’s false, a lie, in order for what you say to actually be slander.

  58. Had another thot:

    The serious criminal accusations Alex brings to the table are currently in court, backed by his name, his personal experience, witnesses and corroborating testimony. Alex has always used his real name, though I’ve watched a CC pastor make unfounded claims against him that could ruin Alex’s business reputation, even while he was not using his real name.

    My accusations against my CC pastor have already been legally proven and are publicly known. The people in my area already know who I am. The warning to the broader body of Christ is for them to ask the question about the Moses Model and meaningful accountability. No real name is required to encourage people to ask those questions.

    I’m wasting my own time even addressing this, cause no name proves that’s who you are. It’s unnecessary in this context.

  59. Grateful: I point to the great defenders of the faith who put their lives on the line for the faith, to speak against false teachings of the prevailing religion who represented God, beginning with the prophets, John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, Stephan, check Fox’s Book of Martyers, Luther… why are you afraid to use your real name if you truly represent God? Journalists put their lives on at risk for using a by-line in investigative stories. Check out the journalists who have been murdered in Tijuana, Mexico, for exposing police corruption and Mexican mafia. If you really believe — state your name, say, “Here I stand.”

  60. Oh yeah — and I’m telling you the FBI can force emails addresses from this website under Hate Crime status and bring charges against those who slander Christian leaders with baseless accusations.

  61. Grateful: And how about following Matthew chapter 18 when you see your brother in sin, to go first to him in private in an attempt to restore him back to the faith, the take 2-3 others, then tell it to the church? I also don’t see much of that here in this website.

  62. And how about following Matthew chapter 18 when you see your brother in sin, to go first to him in private in an attempt to restore him back to the faith, the take 2-3 others, then tell it to the church? I also don’t see much of that here in this website.

  63. Slander: 1. the utterance of false charges or misrepresentation which defame and damage another’s reputation, 2. a false and defamatory statement about a person. — Websters

    As I said, a federal lawsuit under Hate Crime status can force this website to release email addresses.

  64. Is this guy for real? Keith, many posters, including Grateful and Alex, have stated early on in this blog how they painstakingly applied Matthew 18. Unless you have read this blog from start to finish you have no basis to assume they haven’t gone through the Biblical channels. This IS telling it to the church. And your persistent demand for names is ignorant at best, sinister at worst. If something is true, it remains true no matter who says it. If I say my name is Wanda Finkelstein or Jean Luc Fernandez or Frodo Baggins, how do you know if that’s really my name or not? And newsflash, people can still give their name AND tell a lie. Happens all the time. And thanks for the dictionary lesson on slander. You have just acquitted everyone who has shared factual statements here about their experience of abuse at the hands of CC. By the way, why haven’t you shared your last name? Give me a last name and I’ll believe anything you say.

  65. I know Phil Aguilar, his wife Sandra and his entire family very well. Beware! Phil is a con man, pure evil. My best advise, is to stay far away from him. I nearly lost my child to him. I know first hand the heartaches he has caused so many innocent people who were simply looking for The Lord. Now is son Geranimo is doing the same thing daddy taught him and he is using Jesus to wreak havoc on young girls.

  66. Thanks for the warning, Deborah.

  67. HOW CAN SO MANY EVIL PEOPLE BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE AND SO MANY THINK NOTHING OF IT, PLEASE HELP ME OUT!!!!!!!!

  68. Olivia, the Apostle Paul warned us that people would try to come in from the outside to destroy the church, but he also said that people will even rise up from within the church to destroy it. For some reason God designed it this way. I don’t get it, but He’s God and I’m not.

    Why so many people think nothing of it? I really don’t know. But I’ve been so disheartened by it that I’m beginning to wonder if there are many people who claim to be followers of Christ, even “serving” in His Name, yet God will say, “Depart from Me, I never knew you,” in the end.

    I haven’t been able to grasp how so many can be so heartless and still think they are Christians. The whole Bible can be summed up with love God and love others. The heartless who choose to ignore the facts of corruption and abuse … well, that’s not love for either.

  69. I’ve gotten to the point that’s it’s nearly impossible to even listen to such people talk about God, their service, or even quote the Word of God.

    “The kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.” I see no power in the heartless. I see arrogance, self-righteousness, a lack of humility, selfishness, and more blindness than I even imagined possible.

  70. Grateful, thank you, just need someone to talk me off the emotional cliff for a second, God knows sometimes it can make you nuts, just ask Alex right. Not meaning he is in any way nuts just seems that way to those who DO NOT seem to care. Anyway, I have no doubt so many of these who think they are christians will be in for a very very rude awakening. God help them on that day.

    Grateful I love and so appreciate you in Christ, may he give you the desire of your heart.

  71. Olivia,

    At a recent Bible study, consisting og 8 people, we had a chance to discuss this.

    Thessalonians 2

    New King James Version (NKJV)

    The Great Apostasy

    2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Stand Fast

    13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

    16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

  72. Grateful,

    Your words have stirred me up this morning. You are absolutely right and I think it is this kind of craziness – - following people in positions of trust, who are supposed to represent Christ to us, when they mess up so badly as we have read so many personal accounts of Bob Grenier, and then we see other people in positions of trust, Chuck Smith, sit on his throne and do nothing (and he’s supposed to represent Christ, too, right?) , it just messes with your head. They speak out of their mouth words of God, but their actions show the opposite of love. It’s mind boggling. What is this thing called church?

  73. Julie Anne- Did you read the verses I posted?

    IMO , this is the answer. It is all in scripture.

  74. I agree, Hannah.

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