Pastor Raul Ries of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs: Good, Bad or Ugly?
Pastor Raul Ries of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs. What is your opinion of Pastor Raul Ries? Does he model the Servant Leader that Jesus teaches? Does he model the Qualifications of a pastor taught in Scripture "simply"?
If you attended Calvary Chapel Golden Springs and were under the “authority” and leadership of Pastor Raul Ries and you want to share your personal story, good, bad or indifferent…here’s your chance.
What was your experience with Pastor Raul Ries? Did he model the Servant Leader that Jesus Christ talks about? Or, something else…
If you could say something to Raul Ries, what would it be? What should he change about how he pastors and acts as an employer, etc?
He walks the talk a true servant leader that Jesus teaches. A good surfer I might add.
Page 12 of the complaint subsection 3.4 and 3.5 allege that Pastor Raul Ries of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs (Diamond Bar) knew that Iglesias was a pedophile and/or participated in predatory behavior of children, yet put him back with kids after a brief disciplinary action.
If this allegation is true, Raul Ries should step down immediately as pastor of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs and should be as truthful and forthcoming as possible in helping the Victims of this case.
Unfortunately, from what I’ve learned from many former CC insiders and employs of Raul Ries, and my own direct experiences, he is a liar and is more concerned about protecting his man kingdom than doing the right thing. He just had accused child molester and child beater Bob Grenier preach for him at Calvary Chapel Golden Springs and Raul knows there was physical abuse as his brother-in-law Gary Ruff witnessed Bob striking my brother Geoff in the head repeatedly, pushing him into hotel hallway wall and dragging him into a room and the noises that occurred after that.
Raul looks like Curly Howard of the Three Stooges in that photo…
Alex,
you might want to draw a circle around the $8,000.00 Omega watch he’s wearing. Omega is his watch of choice.
PJay, yes, ‘ol Raul has expensive taste. He’s a sophisticated thug for Jesus.
How’d he get that Porsche Boxster again? Was it from an “investment”?
Who is any person to judge another? Have you not sinned and therefore find yourself righteous to step forward and cast a stone? No one sin is worse than another in God’s eyes. We are all humans who have flaws and struggle with choices every day. What kind of comments were you expecting to generate from a site like this? Think about your own personal walk with Christ and what he would say about this idea, what would he say to you? Pastor Raul is an amazing person and his life, just like each one of ours, is for God to judge.
The, “don’t judge” cop out is not going to fly here Ann, we already broke our rose colored glasses in order to see the truth… Remember the 3 monkeys? Here we speak the truth without fear but in love…
Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Pr 27:6
hat is love?
Ann said, “Who is any person to judge another?”
The Scriptures and bible that Raul Ries says we are to interpret and teach “simply” says much about the issue of “judging”…let’s go there and find out what it says:
http://calvarychapelabuse.com/wordpress/?p=678
Please read the link above Ann. It deals with what the Scripture says about “judging”.
We are told as Christians “to Judge” and “not to Judge”…and there are Qualifications for Pastors/Elders 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and we are instructed on how to deal with their known sins 1 Timothy 5:19-22 and we have the examples of Jesus holding the Religious Leaders’ feet to the fire: Matthew 23 and we have the Apostle Paul’s example many times of confronting sin and error in the church and especially with religious leaders: Galatians 5:12 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Raul should be transparent, tell the truth and be forthcoming about his sins and misdeeds and potential illegalities and he should own it and confess it and repent of it and cooperate with the Authorities God has placed over him as Paul the Apostle asserts here:
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
There are many allegations both moral and potentially criminal surrounding Raul Ries…and he’s shown poor character and judgment in covering over the sins of child abusers and child molesters.
I ask Raul to come forward, be honest and transparent and trust the Lord with the outcome rather than hiding behind his man kingdom Stone Wall and hiding the truth.
Ann said, “Pastor Raul is an amazing person and his life, just like each one of ours, is for God to judge.”
Yes, God will Judge Raul’s Salvation and God will judge his deeds if Raul ends up at the Bema Seat Judgment.
Raul has done a lot of bad things, morally and potentially legally and spiritually.
We are to discern these things and judge them fairly without respecting persons due to their position as Scripture asserts. We are to warn others when we find a religious leader in sin who lies and won’t repent and continues wrongdoing.
I have reached out to Raul and he ignores my requests…therfore Matthew 18 applies as well and “tell it unto the church”. The Greek word used is “Ekklessia” which is the local congregation AND the church universal…all believers….which I’m doing.
Raul is called to confess and repent of sin and be truthful and honest and he professes to be meeting the Qualifications laid out in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 by standing at his pulpit each Sunday…but is giving a false impression, which is lying. There is much unconfessed and unrepented sin in the Camp and much lying and covering it up.
Ann, truth is Raul is a disqualified pastor/elder, a liar and a hypocrite and a facilitator and perpetrator of wrongdoing. He may be saved, but he isn’t qualified to the office of pastor/elder and should resign and repent immediately.
#6 – Ann – we as Christians cannot place man above .
Not everyone is called to be a watchman. However, some are. Do you remember Jeremiah in the Old Testament? God called him to tell the children of Israel the truth. The children of Israel did not want to hear the truth. The people hated Jeremiah. The people devised plans against Jeremiah. Does that make Jeremiah a bad guy because he was telling people what God had said?
Today, like in the past, when a watchman warns what is ahead, the people don’t want to hear it. They want to shoot the watchman or destroy the watchman with their words.
God’s Word should be our standard for truth!
I am hoping God would give me the opportunity and let me attend this coming Sunday to Calvary Chapel and listen to pastor Raul Ruiz and I guess as long we hear the truth of God I guess we are nobody to judge the rest of things, that’s Gods job because am not perfect myself.
Raul Ries is a thug. I’ve experienced it first-hand, and know of many others, including former assistant pastors that have been subjected to his iron fist. He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Who is anyone to say what Pastor Raul has confessed to God. Are you not satisfied until you hear every person’s sins said out load? Maybe you should consider becoming a Priest so that you may hear all confessed sins. I personally confess my sins in a PERSONAL AND PRIVATE conversation with God because he is the only one who’s judgement matters. What “good” do you really want Rockne from this? Maybe you should find a new church or Pastor who better fits your standards an stop pushing your opinions on others who don’t consume themselves in peoples personal matters. I enjoy Pastor Raul’s services and so do many others. What next? Are you going to slander Pastor Grege Laurie or Chuck Smith?
Anne, for anyone on here to slander someone, we’d have to say things that are untrue. Many on here have first hand experiences with these pastors. We know what happened with them. That’s not slander. We also have 2 or 3 more people (sometimes 2 or 3 hundred!) who can corroborate our story and/or the established pattern of behavior.
For review you can read the blog archives from July that talks about judging others and when God tells us we have a responsibility to do it. Then in the August archives you will find one on the biblical meaning of slander and gossip.
1 Timothy 5 tells us “Those (pastors) who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.” There is a biblical mandate to warn others, so this is required obedience.
We are to hate what God hates. We are to judge the fruit, just not one’s salvation. We are to confess our sins to each other …
New Living Translation (©2007)
Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results.
When someone sins against us we are to follow the Matthew 18 principle. If you go to them and they refuse to hear you, and refuse to hear you and your witnesses, then …
17 “If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.”
18 “I tell you the truth, whatever you forbid[f] on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit[g] on earth will be permitted in heaven.”
We are to tell the church, and we are to not permit such sins to go unchecked.
Alex, I’ve got one stuck in moderation.
FYI Anne, (w/ an ‘e’ ) not the same poster as Ann, above. Just so there is no confusion….
Oh, sorry bout that Anne with an E. I missed that one.
Ann, as Grateful said in #14, all of us here have had our own experiences with CC, some of us with multiple CC’s. You are free to read through the entire blog, see the pain that we’ve been subjected to, then come back and have a conversation. I say this with the utmost respect, but unless you know what others have gone through, it’s best not to pass judgement on us.
I began attending CCGS whe it was CC West Covina in ’82. I stopped attending in ’97. I was heavily invovled in ministry attended the bible school, etc. etc. I saw a steady decline over the years.
For those who say we shouldn’t be saying anything. You need to go into Raul’s teaching archives and find where he would say, “If Jesus spoke out mentioning names and Paul and John, then I am goin to mention names.” CC used to fight against the psychological movement. They spoke out against a socal Christian station and it eventually went under. Replaced by KWAV. They spoke out against Jim Baker, TBN, Paul Crouch. They even went so far to agree to not be on their network. So let me see if I understand correctly. They can butcher who they want at will, but we can’t say what we see is wrong. hmmmm Now they go back on TBN and buddy up to the very people they instructed us to watch out for…… I never got the memo on that one.
Good points RFTB.
I heard an “anonymous” CC pastor today on PhxP call out Ted Haggard publicly and quoting Jesus saying to deal with things in the open, etc.
Ironic.
I called him on it (I know who he is) b/c the guy won’t take a public stand about Bob Grenier and abuses and corruption within Calvary Chapel, but has no problem publicly rebuking Ted Haggard for going on Wife Swap, etc.
Hypocrisy in action.
Alex,
I wanted to express my appreciation for the heat you are taking. I have been considering writing you a condensed version of my experiences. Between being employed full time, teaching three times a week and enjoying my marriage i am busy. this blog stuff is new to me. I strongly believe that teaching those who are coming out of this wil provide strength through faith. If they persecuted Jesus, they will persecute us.
I know you have been told a couple of times to cool your lingo. I have seen it get a little rough, but not inappropriately. Maybe i am missing something. If one was to read there scripture, they would see that that those called by God could be insulting and very direct. Paul told the Galatians that if the Judaisers were considering circumcision an act of righteousness that they should consider castrating themselves. Check it out in Greek.
Anyhow…… you go boy!
RFTB, thanks. I’m actually quite inspired when I read the Apostle Paul’s handling of Peter and the Judaizers and when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees in Matthew 23.
Paul didn’t pull any punches, the ISV puts it this way, “I wish that those who are upsetting you would castrate themselves!”
Notice the punctuation in Galatians 5:12 it emphasizes yelling. Hard to parse Paul handling this confrontation as Pious and Polite.
Sometimes, it is what it is.
Again, style isn’t necessarily sin.
How many times did Jesus lose it with the Pharisees and Money Changers? How many times did He yell, call them names and kick butt?
How many times did Jesus yell at sinners and the regular person He was ministering to?
Style can’t always be sin, as Jesus yelled, called names was confrontational at times (in only specific contexts vs. hypocritical religious leaders and those exploiting God for profit) and is sinless.
And, to David Rosales Calvary Chapel Chino Valley…
How many times has David Rosales hyper-focused on the sin of homosexuality, yet gives his BFF Bob Grenier a pass for all his wrongdoing and abuses?
How many times did Jesus yell at homosexuals? How many times did Jesus address the issue of homosexuality?
How many times did Jesus rebuke the Pharisees, the hypocritical religious leaders of His day?
Oooooo Good point Alex. How about Jesus’ handling of Nicodemus in John 3, “your a master of Israel and you don’t know theses things?” Paul to the Corinthians, “Is there not one wise man among you.” How many times did he refer to them as fools. How about, “You are still carnal.” regarding there behavior. The writer of Hebrews in Ch. 5 discussing that they needed to be taught the first principles and return to milk. Further stating that those that are mature can discern between good and evil……. makes you wonder about their spiritual development.
RFTB, interesting point about “discerning between good and evil”…
I think there’s a BIG problem there in my experience. Evil is framed as good many times…and good (telling the truth) is framed as evil.
I used to wonder if I missed the memo and it was “Backwards Day.”
Raul Ries can count on me to lift his name in prayer and in praise. I am closer to God as a result of his example and influence on my life. I love you Raul and God Bless you, on behalf of every member of my family, Oh, I just remembered, Jesus said the world would know us by our love for one another, so to the creators of this site, love you too bro!
Louis.
I am happy to hear of your good experience. However, your opening line helps to substantiate the views of this site, “Raul Ries can count on me to lift his name in prayer and in PRAISE,”? (Question mark and emphasis mine.) Might I suggest you set forth to praise the Lord. Your statement expresses exactly where your focus lies, that being man. You should do well advancing in ministry within CC. Being a sycophant is a pre-requisite for success in CC’s.
RFTB, Your question mark seemed to indicate you were giving Louis the benefit of the doubt or the chance to further explain his statement. Maybe Louis means he’s going to be praying for Raul and thanking God for Raul being his pastor?? Anyway, you really seem to have supernatural knowledge by telling him his focus is on man. Hard to discern that from one post wouldn’t you say??
Erunner, sorry for the confusion. The question mark was intended to mean, Why would you praise a man? Didn’t want to write the whole thought out. But since there seems to be a lack of reasoning I will now elaborate. As for my knowledge being supernatural. It has nothing to do with that. What it does have to do with is my inductive reasoning on a given statement such as, “Raul Ries can count on me to lift his name in prayer and in praise.” Raul is defined as the subject in the statement “Raul Ries” and “his”. The devotion to the subject is expressed, “can count on me”. The expressed action of which the subject receives, “prayer and in praise”. The statement is written in the active/indicative. In other words, the expression hermeneutically evaluated expresses focus upon the man instead of God. On the servant instead of the master. My statement was my exegetical conclusion. For those of you from the hood, or a CC bible school, it means homy is caught up in giving his boy the props instead of God.
A reading of this site suggests that CC pastor’s error with the same malady, an inability to soundly conclude what a statement, whether in scripture, or in the real world, really means. Louis is merely an expression of someone sitting under this type of teaching.
RFTB, Your inductive reasoning is your opinion. Nothing more. Using that logic your Ooooooo in post #27 would indicate you worship at the feet of Alex. So maybe it’s you that’s the sycophant??
Erunner. My “Oooooo” was the only way I knew to express myself beyond that of trying to figure out how to add some kind of cartoon face. I apologize for my inability to be up to speed with today’s technology. I have never met Alex, nor do I know him beyond this site.
However, you learned nothing from my previous statement. My “Ooooo” would be an undeterminable expression in and of itself. It would have to be linked together with “Good Point”, which placse the emphasis on the statement and not the person. One could argue that the appreciation of one’s statement could express worship of the individual. However, that conclusion would be specious. Louis statement expresses worship of the individual by utilizing the word praise as expressed towards the subject.
Your statement, “Your inductive reasoning is your opinion. Nothing more.” is oxy moronic. You do not you use sciences of grammar and hermeneutics to come to an opinion. You quantify what is being stated. Within the realm of false teachers and those unlearned exist such statements as, that is your opinion. Should those sciences lead me to a conclusion that is merely opinion, then it could be rightly argued that anyones opinion is worth defending simply on the merits of it being their opinion. Therefore, those who argue against this site are not only wrong, but hypocrites. They want their opinion to be heard but not willing to allow those who have direct experience to offer theirs.
Should fact be taken into account, which is based upon actual events, then opinion becomes invalid and a defense merely based on ad ignorantium. In which case the need for further conversation diminishes due to the ignorance of the opposing side. (Imagine a smiley face here.)
MTFB, You’re killing me!
Good night!
…… LOL
I am not big into texting. What does MTFB mean?
RFTB, It means I got a LOL out of you. I win!
My LOL came after the statement. I am still curious as to what it means.
In any case have a good night.
RFTB @ 33 “For those of you from the hood, or a CC bible school, it means homy is caught up in giving his boy the props instead of God.”
Excellent!
@ 35 ” … it could be rightly argued that anyones opinion is worth defending simply on the merits of it being their opinion. Therefore, those who argue against this site are not only wrong, but hypocrites. They want their opinion to be heard but not willing to allow those who have direct experience to offer theirs.”
This is exactly what I wanted to say! Well put, RFTB!
RTFB, My salvation is firmly set on Jesus Christ and Jesus is witness of that. IF Raul Ries caused you directly to draw away from our Lord then take it up with him and work it out to forgive each other. I’d like to take credit for that idea but it is not mine. Not to repeat myself but, Praise God, for guys, like Raul Ries, who stood for Christ in the alley and high school campus way before the Internet became a spiritual battleground. Jesus Loves You, pass it along.
Louis, if Bernie Madoff shared Christ with someone, does that make his criminal acts OK?
Does it make Jimmy Swaggert’s infidelity OK that he also shared Christ with so many?
Raul has shared Christ, no doubt.
Raul is also covering up a lot of sin and criminality…and some serious stuff is going to come to the surface in the coming year.
Louis,
I am glad to hear of your commitment to Christ, who alone saved you. Apparently you misunderstand my position in Christ. I too am his servant. I walk with the Lord daily. My issue with Raul would be that of the contradictory fashion by which he, and others, teach and yet fail to attempt to lead by example. You are likely a newbie to CC. Therefore you are the later generation. There was a time when we never used the title “pastor” before the names of these me. They were servants just like us. Do you remember the Passport Magazine? When was the last time you heard a detailled message on false teachers, hirelings, etc. one that detailled their behavior. Please direct me to the recording so that I can hear it. During the 1995 SW pastors conference, Chuck Stated openly that their were many there who were living above their congregations? Many of us thought Raul was one he was referring to. Was Chuck wrong?
You see, there is scriptural proof that men can fall away in their later years. Look at Eli and his sons. Look at King Saul. He became too big for his britches. The Lord instructs Ezekiel regarding the fall from righteousness, “20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.”
Ezek 3:20-21 (KJV)
We see clearly that it can happen. Proverbs 27:6 states, “Faithful are the wounds of a friend. But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” You see, addressing these men is an act of love, not bitterness. If they choose not to hear then their blood be on their own heads. However, there are those who are unfamiliar with their deeds and their actions must be brought into account. You think it is a negative act against them. But do you consider the environment they create, with hubris, to allow pediphiles to feel comfortable in their ministries? These actions have gone far beyond the rumor stage.
The only issue that exists is between these pastors, with their need to repent, and the Lord. None-the less, I am still held to account by the Lord to speak against these actions. If salt loses its savour it is good for nothing but to be trampled under foot by man. Since you enjoy sound study I have a few questions for you. This passage of scripture, “19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. 2 Cor 11:19-20 (KJV)
Is Paul commending the Corintian church or rebuking them? Who were the people treating them this way? Why would they let themselves be treated like this? Is their behavior correct in the eyes of the Lord?
I look forward to your response. By the way, if you have a problem with my conclusion of your first statement, you may want to look at what you wrote. You can always rewrite. We all make errors from time to time. Except, of course, if you are a CC pastor. The beauty of being a CC pastor is never having to say, “I’m sorry”.
RTFB – I remember Passport Magazine! Those were the old days!
RTFB – So Raul stopped teaching on false teachers and such? And now you have to call him Pastor Raul?
Funny story (to me, anyway). So, after church one night on a Wednesday at the West Covina Calvary Chapel, I was walking home – I lived across the street. Going home, there was this Liquor Store (it had other stuff too). And there is Raul – I walked up behind him and said – Give me all your money! I forgot for the moment that he could seriously beat me up – but he did laugh a little. Ahh, the good old days!
Ron,
I know which liquor store you’re speaking of. It was the one at the end of the building, right? Wasn’t it just a different time. I know we can be frustrated by all this, but warm memories existed back then. If you remember, back then it was just Raul, Chuck, Greg…. etc. So you remember Pete Claproth, Lindsey Mann, Darrel Skinner, Scott Thom etc. Jim Sheets was the asst’ back then. When I left they had accused him of going off the wall. I question that. I can’t seem to remember the worship leaders name. He was so gifted. He played the piano. Do you remember?
Your story expresses the temperment back them. You could joke with anyone. A much more real time.
RTFB,
The liquor store I am talking about was across the street – not the one next to the offices. If you were to leave the sanctuary and keep going through the parking lot, then across that street. I remember Darrel, and Jim Sheets. Jim actually married a couple of my friends. Pete’s name rings a bell. The piano player I remember is Dave Messenger – and he was gifted. Someone on here told me that they thought he was in the Boise Area (So. Idaho).
I am not trying to re-live the days, but, it was an exciting time for me. The friends I knew then, if I saw them today, that would be a fine time!
Dave Messenger, I always enjoyed his worship. Pete was the one who did the Passport Mag. I vaguely remember the store you are referring too. If I was standing in front of the building it would be to the right across the street. Same block that the fire station was on. I apologize for striking your memory.
God Bless, Ron
To the mocker with the comment about homy giving props, heaven is our home and God is not mocked
I commented on this website because the top of the page invites the visitor to comment on what kind of experience they had with Raul Ries. I did not realize positive comments were not allowed to stand on their own but retorts, assumptions and even mocking remarks toward the poster seem to be encouraged and this speaks volumes to any curious visitor blessed with discernment.
But stubborn as I am, let me say it 3 times. Praise God, Praise Christ for guys like Raul and may I be accused from afar of modeling Christ in the manner I have seen Raul model Christ. Raul doesn’t need me to defend him, I just like giving credit where credit is due.
Finally, my current pastor, Jentezen Franklin, jets from GA to OC every Sunday. If you need a place to worship and don’t like Raul, try Franklin@ Free Chapel, you will get the same message with a southern twang, Jesus loves you, pass it along.
Im glad you have had a good experience with Raul, Louis. I’m sorry that you felt mocked. All opinions are welcomed.
We are to judge for identification but not condemnation. Something I learned from a CC sermon. Admittedly they preach some good sermons but the problem is they don’t live them out.
Louis,
The site is not mine. So there is a good chance that my comments are the ones not welcome. I am sorry that you took offense from my statement. You may want to look at the thread. You may notice that my comment was directed towards erunner and we both got a laugh out of our banter.
As far as mocking heaven, when did I do that. Do you not consider it a greater mockery of heaven to preach one message, place the flock under the bomdage of it, and then willingly and freely live contradictory to it a mockery? When Paul stated that God will not be mocked Whatsoever a man sows shall he surely reap, wasn’t he referring to their actions.
Furthermore, When I go into a town, call the local CC to determine which one I will go too, speak to an associate pastor who can’t answer my biblical questions and yet want to lead me spiritually, I’m sorry, but that is a mockery of their very position. I am not mocking heaven, but the foolishness of man.
When it came to addressing you I asked you some questions to open dialogue. I didn’t mock you or heaven (go back to the thread).
Lastly, I will take you at your word. I will contact the churches you mentioned. Speak with a pastor. ask him some biblical/theological questions. Then I will let you know who I spoke with and what his answers were, or weren’t.
May the Lord richly bless you as you continue to seek His face.
Hello – I would like to add that Jim Sheets is currently the pastor of New Life Christian Fellowship in West Covina – I keep in contact with him still. Dave Messenger is in the Idaho Falls area still leading worship _ I keep in contact with him as well. Pete Claproth is in Australia now and has been for several years. He was involved in the Passport mag but John Fratterola was the primary writer. If there was an article with Raul’s name on it then John wrote it. Lindy Mann is in Santiago, Chile – look him up on facebook if you want.
I went to CC West Covina from 1983 until after a year they moved to DB. I went with Jim Sheets when he started a fellowship in West Covina. I went to the daytime bible school and spent a lot of time at the chapel involved with lots of ministries. I grew tremendously while there and since. I would not submit currently to Rauls’ leadership for many reason’s. I can’t say I suffered anything while attending but I have heard lots of things from folks who were on staff. My personal experiences were good. I was always challenged by Raul during leadership talks. I’m not saying he was good or bad, just that I grew tremendously. Since I don’t have “first hand account” of wrongdoings, I will remain silent on those points. As for “living above the flock” – sadly, that happens quite a bit. It would be nice if certain pastors would practice what they preach (or at least what the bible says =D). There is a lack of accountability in many pulpits today.
My goal right now is to work on my relationship with Christ so that it is consistent and growing. I am trying to be obedient to the moving of the Spirit in my life and do what He tells me to. I am trying to “do the first works” and to be passionate about Christ. That and being a good husband and father commands all my time. God has proved Himself faithful to me in abundance. He is not obligated to prove to me anything!
Steve,
I am happy to hear of the update. I was unfamiliar with Dave Messenger, but with the others I had some familiarity. I was unaware of the name of the church Jim was pastoring, or if it was still in existance. I was standing outside Dale’s office while he and Raul were trying to convince Jim to go back to WC to cover the vaccuum that was left when they went to Golden Springs. Jim was very apprehensive. I was shocked when after making the move they started bad mouthing him. It was as if Raul was telling him to go but requiring him to submit to Raul. Another disappointing conclusion. I am glad to hear he is doing well and pray he is teaching the meat of the word.
I don’t believe it’s a far stretch to believe that Raul Ries would protect child abusers or spouse abusers really. His wife wrote a book back in 1989 called My Husband My Maker. A very good read. Helped me a lot through some of my own marriage trouble although not to the extent that she went through with Ries. She described in her own book about his violent outbursts. I think that she has found a way to keep her marriage together but even after reading her book I questioned whether or not the violence had really stopped. To quote part of it, “Just then, Raul marched into the kitchen, grabbed my face with his hand, and shoved the telephone receiver into it repeatedly, bouncing my head against the wall.” She even admitted that after his conversion he still struggled with violent outbursts. So it is not a far cry to believe that he would empathize with abusers of any kind and protect them. A leopard doesn’t change his spots. But again based on Biblical standards, I’m not sure that Raul even qualifies to be a bishop or pastor or elder. I just hope that for Sharon’s sake that he doesn’t still have violent outbursts towards her. It never really clarified that in the book.
Heather,
I agree. After all that I have seen/experienced personally at GS, Ontario, Fort Lauderdale, Lone Mountain, Meadow Mesa, to what extent they will go for their own benefit is unmeasurable. Please don’t mistake my reflections of a more pleasant time to over ride the egregious nature by which this corporation now conducts itself. I have wrestled over and over again with, was it right back then, or was it wrong and I was to naive to recognize it.
I have been one of those that gave the benefit of the doubt. But it did not take all this abuse stuff to make it obvious. I have been communicatong the ills of CC from the early 2000′s. This surfacing of their hidden sins is an expression of what has been festering for some time. Unrepentant sin is showing what action it produces.
I have been curious to ask this question to all who would care to answer it. When have you ever heard a CC pastor apologize for, say I’m sorry for, anything he did wrong. In nearly 30 years I can’t ever remember hearing one say that.
RFTB@I have been curious to ask this question to all who would care to answer it. When have you ever heard a CC pastor apologize for, say I’m sorry for, anything he did wrong. In nearly 30 years I can’t ever remember hearing one say that.
Never. I have been to 3 CC’s..all in the same town and there were issues in all 3 and it never happened. Well, one sent me an e-mail that he understood my concern for the R rated material he mentioned in the sermon with my 12 and 14 yr old present. But when we left because of an issue he had to be aware of, he didn’t call us to speak with us about it. Just let us leave. Maybe because we gave annonymously. Cash. Perhaps if we had out names attached to it, he would have thought we were worth more to him. I know thats harsh, but I believe it to be true.
Hannah,
I think an inability is a huge indicator. My study this morning is a continuation in thought from last week in Galatians ch. 2. The actions of a leader. I believe when I fail to apologize it expresses that I am always right, which is impossible. That I am above a mistake, which is a huge mistake! That who I have errored with is not worthy of the apology, which is a foolish thought. It would appear that every CC pastor I have come in contact with falls into the categories above.
Regarding your comment on the other thread. You are 100% correct. We are not promised tomorrow. If that woman was looking for the answer to salvation that was the Spirit moving right then and there. Remember, Jesus said, if they persecuted me, they will persecute you.
p.s. Happy to see I’m not the only early bird. Need to continue with my preparation for this mornings study.
If Pastors insist on being paid a salary then why don’t they just get paid the average median income of the particular city they Pastor. For example where I live in Montebello the median income is 51,000 plus so that should be the income of Pancho Juarez in Montebello
RFTB-
Maybe you can send those notes here and we can do church with you!
RFTB PS
That is a great study and an issue we are currently dealing with in our family.
A lie is a coverup for not repenting.
About the woman- If we are not concerned about someones salvation, but are more concerned about not offending anyone (or breaking the “man-made rules” of the organization,) what is that saying about the organization, and Jesus’ Great Commmission?
Will be praying for your study today!
Hannah,
Thank you for your prayers! I may be able to do better than the notes. I record the messages on a small digital recorder. I will be able to get you a copy of the study if you like. It is a continuation of last weeks study. I can get you both.
let me explain my teaching style, which falls in line with my burden to give the unadulterated word, to the best of my ability and with complete dependence on the Holy Spirit. It is systematic in nature. However, it is unlike that of CC’s in that it incorporates alot of cross referencing. As an example, todays study utilized 21 passages of scripture. We developed a biblical foundation for the passage of Galatians 2:11-21. I consider two philosophies with my teaching. “Text out of context is pretext” and “The best commentary on the bible is the bible.” Therefore, we incorporate large portions of scripture. True systematic teaching utilizes ample amounts of scripture to establish the truth of God’s word. It minimizes my exposition. After all, God said it was His word that would not come back void, not mine. The teaching is similar to 1st-2nd year seminary. Please continue to keep us in prayer. We had another family join us today. One or two more will be all we can fit in the house.
God Bless
RFTB @ 58 said,
“I believe when I fail to apologize it expresses that I am always right, which is impossible. That I am above a mistake, which is a huge mistake! That who I have errored with is not worthy of the apology, which is a foolish thought. It would appear that every CC pastor I have come in contact with falls into the categories above.”
YUP!
I have found this site both saddening and enlightening. I am saddened to hear about the accusations being leveled at Raul Ries as I have found both his testimony and teachings to have been a blessing in my life yet I can not deny the fact that even pastors must be held accountable for their actions towards others. It seems that Calvery Chapel’s distinctive regarding the authority of a pastor has left the door open for potential abuses as pointed out on this site. Alex i am so sorry to hear about the abuse that you suffered under the hands of your father but i am glad that you are taking a strong stand against abuse within the churches. I too experienced a form of authoritarian leadership in the previous calvary chapel that i had attended. I left that fellowship over 6 years ago and am attending a pentecostal church. Both my wife and myself are very happy at our current fellowship and found healing through it. Don’t get me wrong. Our current church has its issues to deal with as well but thank the Lord that we do have solid leadership within this church. I believe that a lot of the comments from those who blindly defend their leaders regardless of accusations may be as a result of either misplaced loyalty and or just plain ignorance of the scripture. We want to believe the best for our leaders but we can not allow that to blind us from any sins that they are committing. Scripture says that faithful are the wounds of a friend. Too many people have itching ears and only want to hear what soothes them. They forget that the Word of God is a sword that pierces, exposes, and reveals the very thoughts of our hearts. God bless you Alex for applying the sword of the Word in this situation.
Well said Angel.
Angel@I believe that a lot of the comments from those who blindly defend their leaders regardless of accusations may be as a result of either misplaced loyalty and or just plain ignorance of the scripture.
Very good observations
I’m a conservative Democrat. I don’t know where to go to get answers. I thought I would tag into Raul Reis to post my concerns, my questions and my appeal. I understand that Christians tend to vote Republican because of Abortion, guy rights, etc. I believe that Republicans claim to be Christian conservatives (not all, but most) to obtain votes and political contributions when in reality, they are not true or good Christians. They commit adultery, they are corrupt, they lie. The fact is that their actions have spoken to me louder than words. That is not to see that there aren’t Democratic Politicians that are also corrupt and wrong. However, you do not see the Democratic Politicians preach hate, racism, encouraging violence, spitting on politicians, disrespecting our President by calling him the ‘n’ word, painting him as Hitler, lying that he is unAmerican, etc.
I thought that our Christian Pastors were supposed to be the Shepherds of the Flock, protecting, and helping them to get to green pastures, still waters, etc. But when the politics are that the Republicans have abandoned the people they are supposed to serve for special interest, for their own political advantage, when the Republicans do not do what they are supposed to do to improve our nation and the lives of the people, aren’t our Christian Leaders supposed to do or say something?
I have heard my daughter say that she votes Republican because Republicans are against abortions. That is good. But there is only so much government can do to prevent abortions. This year the Republicans House of Representative has done nothing on the issues of jobs, the economy, school improvements, etc. They have brought in bills (that will never go anyplace and are but a waste of time) on abortion. They call it bills against abortion when many have nothing to do with abortion, they have to do with women’s rights to health issues. They blame everything on President Obama, How can we expect President Obama to fix our nation’s problems when the Republicans filebuster everything he proposes?
Jesus knew the law. A woman caught in audltery was to be stoned to death. Yet he did not stone her. He advaiced her to sin no more. He did not impose his will on her. That was between the adulterous and God. It was not for the mob either, for they were not clean of sin.
Jesus, when he knew what Simon was thinging of the woman who washed His feet with her tears and dried them with her hair, knowing that Simon was judging her and looking down on her, Jesus said, “Simon, I have something to say to you…this woman sinned much because she loved much.” No one knows exactly what her sins were. Jesus did not condemn her. Jesus looks into a person’s heart. What happened to that. Jesus had compassion. Where is compassion now? I am a Democrat. Do not believe in abortions. Yet, as Jesus did, I respect a person’s volition, to do their will. So does God. If not, then we would all be puppets. Government cannot look in the hearts of woman nor anyone else. That is for God, not government. A woman has the right to choose, God gave her that right. Just as we all have the right to choose to do right or wrong.
Jesus said, “Render to Cesar what is Cesar’s and to God what is God’s.” I don’t understand how our Christian leaders are not standing up for the flock. How can they keep encouraging Christians to support Republicans when they are ruining the nation and catering to the Corporations and the Super Rich.
My very Christian friend said something to me that I found concerning and dangerous. She said she believed everything she heard on Fox news. That all the other media was liberal and told lies. What happened to Christians. When a pastor says something to me, often times I will question it so I search the Scriptures. It is the responsibility of Christians to also search for the facts and not be led by the Beck’s, the Linbaughs and the Fox commentators of the world. Glen Beck says that the 99% (Occupy Wall Street) want to kill you, that they are going to drag you out of your homes and kill you. Do you truly believe that?
Please, if there is a Pastor out there that agrees with me (even if just a little), let me know. I am afraid for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. I do not like what the Republicans have done to our nation and I don’t trust them. The poor need protection too, just as the unborn babies, families need protection too, they need help, they need health insurance, jobs and homes and we need the Republicans to work on these issues that I feel take priority over warring against same sex marriages and gays.
We had 8 years of Bush. Obama has been in office not quite 3 years and everyone expects him to fix in 3 years all the wrong Bush did in 8. Blame should be placed where blame is due. How can President Obama fix anything if the Republicans block everyting.
Do we really want to rid ourselves of laws that protect worker’s rights? Do we really want to undue what little Wall Street regulations Obama passed and regulations that protect our health? That is the anwer Republicans have for creating jobs, more deregulation. Do we really want the working class to carry most of our nations debts by paying a highter tax than those who make millions and billions? Do we really want the oil companies, the banks and companies to profit from loop holes and not pay their fair share of taxes? Or do we want better schools, better bridges and roads, more jobs, people to be able to save their homes, etc?
I know that there are many who do not see things as I do and I don’t expect them to. What I do expect is for Pastors to lead us on what is right, putting aside their own personal gains, special interest, etc. I expect for voters to really research the facts. I expect for voters to protect people’s right to vote.
I have lifted all of this up to Jesus in prayer. Let us hope that we do not make the same mistake we made when we voted Bush as President and the mistake we made last October when we gave the majority to Republicans in the House.
The Democrats have the majority in the Senate. Yet, even if they have 55 votes out of the 100 votes (which is a majority), the Republicans filebuster it, requiring more than 60 votes. This is so wrong….
I’m sorry, I guess I could go on and on. Just didn’t know where else to vent but here. My daughter and my son are Republicans. We cannot agree on politics. We do agree on our Christian faith.
I became a Christian in my 30′s. I am now over 60. Raul Reis was my Pastor when he preached out of West Covina. I don’t know about all the criticism that is going on right now about him. But ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Even when Paul had a thorn on His side, Jesus used him. I respect Raul Reis and if I hadn’t moved so far away I would still be attending his church (in Diamond Bar). My grandchildren still go to him. I wrote it here because I believe Raul (though not perfect) is a pratical person. As a pastor, what ever he did or didn’t do, what ever he condoned or didn’t, he is a Shepherd. If he has not been right, that is between him and God. If you disaprove of him, than find a new church, a new pastor, one that is perfect and can do no wrong.
Has anyone considered that the idea of a top-down organization might be wrong? Look at it, the “church” is organized like GM, Microsoft and the Military. I realized 7 years ago that there is no such thing as church as it is know today, but it should be called “the called out ones”. I came to the conclusion that there were VERY few truly born again, chosen of God in these places so I left to find Christ outside waiting for me. The Lord is my Pastor I have no wants. The Great Teaches has been teaching me privately and it’s been wonderful, He is also restoring to me the things CC had eaten and polluted in my soul. So, it you once new the Joy of the Lord and have been taught that it goes away (after being in church) that is a lie, it is waiting for you outside the organizational doors! My best to all of you searching for that Joy again.
Mike,
You expressed the truth for a lot of us, myself included.
There is hope outside the walls of the “institution” and inside the heart of Jesus!
He gets us just where He needs us to be.
It may not sit well with many folks who have made an” investmen”t in their church,(and dare not confront evil for the sake of “rocking the boat”, but when he looses those chains that bind us, he sets us free.
It is very painful, but suffering is needed before freedom.
And those who the Son sets free, are free indeed!
Mike and Hannah, I know that we can find sin in the church and be hurt. I know a local “church” can reach a point of being toxic. I understand some taking a break to reconnect with Jesus without the interfering issues of the local church … certainly for a time.
But without judging you, or anyone else on this, I need a body of believers and read of a local church that God set up in the New Testament. So I keep going to church.
I recognized the need to leave my toxic CC and found another church. It’s not perfect, but I was delightfully surprised at the spiritual health I found, elsewhere. Not everyone can leave their church and find a healthy one within their area, I know.
An example in the Brennan Manning sermon I listened to this week said that DL Moody was asked why go to church? He didn’t answer with words, rather took a coal from the fire and set it apart. After doing something, they returned to find the coals in the fire were still burning/glowing, while the one removed coal had gone out. In most cases, I believe this happens to people when they are removed from fellowship of other believers.
Yes, you can fellowship outside of a local church, but I still see God set up an organization and it seems that we are supposed to be a part of it. Having said that, I understand that some have been so wounded and abused that until there is more healing, some may not be able to feel safe enough darken the door of a building where a local church meets, for awhile.
Hey Lorenza De La Llata,
I am not a pastor but I agree with MUCH of what you are saying. I was a republican years back. I used to only watch and listen to conservative shows and read the conservative publications. When I decided to do more research and look for facts, I started noticing how wrong I was. It amazes me how many of the middle class and lower income Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity crowd will listen to them and vote against their own interest. The middle income listeners don’t realize that these super rich entertainers have their own agenda to make them even more rich themselves. Yet so many people only listen to sound bites about “Obama wanting to raise taxes” and not learn the whole story. The republicans don’t care about the middle and lower income families healthcare, jobs etc. It amazed me that during the healthcare debate how the republicans wanted to “start over” and come to an agreement because they also agree that the system was broken. I say to them “what happened to the 8 years during the Bush administration when they controlled congress also?” they did NOTHING about healthcare for all. Yes, it amazes me how many middle and lower income people will vote against their own interest because of misinformation, stubborness or worse.
I also look for the leaders of the churches to stand up for the poor and the families and not for the super rich. The republicans, after getting elected to the house in 2010 said that they have been given a second chance by the people that they failed prior to that when they were voted out and the democrats had the super majority. John Boehner also said that this might be their last chance to get it right and they promised to work on the economy and jobs as soon as they got back into office. Well… Again they did nothing and put all their focus on abortion bills. I, like yourself, do not really favor abortions, but that is not a government decision to make. It is the free will of a woman and her own beliefs. According to Mr. Boehner, if the republicans don’t step up and fix the economy and focus on jobs, the American public will not be fooled again and not give them another chance. Well, they had their chance and lets hope he is correct about the American public voting them out.
As far as people who call themselves Christian leaders, such as Mike Huckabee, who was also against healthcare for all Americans, what happened to understanding the words of Jesus:
‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, …42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
And also as you mentioned, Allow the separation of Church and state.
As far as the paster Raul Ries,I don’t know much about him, I did meet his son, Ryan, who is the co-founder of the Whosoevers along with Sonny Sandoval. I am trying to find out more of what they believe in and what message they are trying to send. I can say that his son is a really nice individual.
So, I wanted to let you know that I understand where you are coming from and I hope more people will stop following these radio entertainers and start thinking for themselves.
Grateful #70
My hearts desire is to find a church.
God knows that.
@Lorenza De La Llata
_________
You seriously have got to be kidding. You as a Christian support Obama and the Democrat Party and its agenda of death ?
Did your desire to see a Democrat in the White House trump your commitment to Christ and Christian values and principles? Obama supports abortion. He also supports the vile murderous practice of partial birth abortion. So as not to offend his pro-choice supporters while an Illinois state senator, Obama voted three times against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which would protect babies who survive abortions. According to Illinois state law at that time, live aborted babies were issued birth and death certificates and left out to die in soiled utility rooms. Obama’s compassionate compromise was to suggest hospitals create a “Comfort Room” for aborted babies to die in.
You worship Jesus Christ with your mouth yet your deed of voting for and supporting THIS speaks the truth of where your heart is. The Devil has come to kill,steal and destroy- and those who push this abortion-partial birth abortion agenda are of the Devil !
Let’s talk about gay marriage. Yep, Obama is sympathetic to it. Obama opposed the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as a legal union between one man and one woman. Obama said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples. He also supports individual states deciding if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.
Like it or not Lorenza God Almighty has said this is an abomination to Him- if you wish to call His word a liar then you do so in supporting this agenda. You cannot have it both ways.
I would also like to tackle the whole “entitlement” thing — folks believing they have a right to reap the benefits of someone else’s labor. Obama is diligently fulfilling his promise to Joe the Plumber to “spread the wealth around.” The Bible says that if a man does not work, he should not eat (II Thessalonians 3:6-12).
Yes, the Bible does highly regard giving/charity. But it does not support government confiscating wealth for redistribution in the name of “social justice.” That is not what Jesus would do. ( that is called stealing, taking what one has earned and giving it to another who has not earned it, the Ten Commandments include something about ” Thou Shall Not Steal I believe).
As a matter of fact, Jesus said, “The poor you will have with you always.” Why? Because it is impossible to regulate outcomes in life. Obama skillfully plays the class envy card, getting those who have less to hate those who have more. Then they will gleefully support him brutally taxing the rich SOBs. Obama is exploiting the human tendency to sinfully covet the possessions of others.
And here is a major kick in the face to Christians. During his presidential campaign, Obama told the world America is not a Christian nation. Now, as president, Obama canceled the 21st annual “National Day of Prayer” ceremony at the White House, which was started by President Truman in 1952. Obama stated his reason as “not wanting to offend anyone.”
Now here’s the kicker. A National Day of Prayer for the Muslim religion was held on Capitol Hill, beside the White House, September 25, 2009. As many as 50,000 Muslims attended.
So apparently, Team Obama has no problem offending Christians, but he is extremely sensitive to and even honors Muslims.
My fellow Christian, these are only a few easy-to-research examples of Obama/Democrat agenda policies which do not line up with Christianity. For those of you who cannot handle the truth, I will keep you in my prayers. It is not my place to judge you. I am simply the messenger. But then, we all know what traditionally happens to messengers. God bless.
Onyx,
I agree with you about Obama but the Republicans are no better in a lot of ways. Both parties are demonically influenced by the New World Order elite. We do have a One party system. Both parties will be supporters of the comingGlobal government. Btw, this isn’t a Christian Nation. America does not get to replace Israel in that regard. We are saved as individuals not as a country. America had many early influential men that were Christian in name but they were also Masons who at their root worship Satan.
Mike said:
“Has anyone considered that the idea of a top-down organization might be wrong? Look at it, the “church” is organized like GM, Microsoft and the Military. I realized 7 years ago that there is no such thing as church as it is know today, but it should be called “the called out ones”. I came to the conclusion that there were VERY few truly born again, chosen of God in these places so I left to find Christ outside waiting for me. The Lord is my Pastor I have no wants. The Great Teaches has been teaching me privately and it’s been wonderful, He is also restoring to me the things CC had eaten and polluted in my soul. So, it you once new the Joy of the Lord and have been taught that it goes away (after being in church) that is a lie, it is waiting for you outside the organizational doors! My best to all of you searching for that Joy again.”
This ^^^
Honestly….. from the looks of it…. Raul Ries will be heading back to jail.
But the real story here is the revelation I found on this site that in many cases the “church” assets belong to the pastor. The whole Skip Heitzig debacle where he was successful in peeling off the radio station worth many many millions of dollars made this loudly apparent.
This whole pedophile protection ring investigation may very well go BEYOND the sex abuse with authorities looking at the emeshed assets of the pastor and the church.
Many folks may be working gratis at these radio stations, giving money to get them started, working on the church buildings gratis THINKING theses are CHURCH ASSETS because they are represented as church assets.
Skip’s arrogant greed grab may be just as instrumental in bringing down CC as Raul Ries’s pedophile enablement.
The co-mingling of private vs corporation assets is illegal.
Former presidential candidate John Edwards in danger of JAIL TIME for a somewhat similar offense.
I think the people on here who are CC haters, are totally misguided. You take disgruntled people’s written word and call it truth. That is so pathetic. You are trying to tear down other Christians–well only CC people. You go on and on trying to discredit them. It consumes your life it seems. It should be good enough for you that God will judge and He is the only judge that truly matters. You try to be victim, prosecuting attorney, judge and jury. I truly feel sorry for you.
Alex, I think that you actually may have been disciplined harshly at times. However, I don’t think spreading alleged dirt about Bob and also adding Chuck, Raul, Skip, and others is the way to go. Now that you are grown, you should move on with your life instead of trying to destroy all things Calvary Chapel. All that hate in your heart will bring you down–it already has. I don’t think you care about others, but I do think you like the attention it brings you so you keep bashing. You like the attention. You twist stories and try to use Scripture to justify your actions and slander. It is slander you know.
Lastly, Pastor Chuck is not responsible for Bob’s alleged sin. Bob is. You have a part in it too, but you are only responsible for you. I think you are looking for money and attention. If CC is truly all the ugly you profess, the Lord could wipe out CC in a blink. Time will tell. You are one small man who will not be able to make a dent in CC unless it is the LORD’s will.
Derrick, LOL.
I make no money on any of this.
Raul Ries? Lots ‘o money. Chuck Smith and especially Chuck’s Family? Tons o’ money (reportedly a $60 million Settlement in the CSN Lawsuit, see the draft of the Settlement Agreement leaked to this site).
According to sources, Raul Ries had his son Raul Jr. and a friend of Raul Jr’s smuggle a combined $200,000 cash to South America to dodge paying customs and taxes. That’s illegal.
So much more bad stuff in the Camp. Adultery, Child Abuse, Child Molestation, Corruption, Stealing, Cheating, Lying etc.
Derrick, some “churches” and ministries “prosper” even if they are not being blessed by God.
Ever been to a Mosque in Dearborn Michigan? Tons of attendance.
If numbers are your Standard for God’s blessing, then hell must be of the Lord, b/c the Bible says that the Wide Road leads there, meaning lots of numbers.
But, I don’t expect you to have much discernment, to know much Scripture, or have an opinion that is other than pure emotionalism and kool aid drinking if you are indoctrinated in CC.
Facts are the facts. The stuff is well-documented. Do your homework.
Derrick said, ” It should be good enough for you that God will judge and He is the only judge that truly matters. You try to be victim, prosecuting attorney, judge and jury. I truly feel sorry for you.”
Derrick, if this is your Standard, then take your own advice and don’t “judge”. You convict yourself with your own Standard and your own words.
If your advice and Standard is “not” to judge…then why are you on this blog judging me?
Pastor Raul Ries is doe’s not teach from the Bible the way it was ment to be taught.
Instead of teaching the word of God with love, he teaches it with comdamnation, as if he is the Law of God. I call him Pastor Law. Raul is a finger pointer pastor not a loving pator. He always condamns people who are not Christian and other Christian churchs. He also condamns the people attending church services say “You shall You shall You shall.” You shall not You shall not You shall not.”
After church service, Law dosen’t come to pray for anybody. he only sends other pastors for prayer and goes to the back. He shows no compassion for anybody. he doesn’t greed new comers or welcomes anybody. I would not be surpries if his son shares the same attitude with his teachings.
Paster Law is a suckup to Chuck Smith.
REVISED
Pastor Raul Ries does not teach from the Bible the way it was ment to be taught 2,000 years ago.
Instead of teaching the word of God with love, he teaches it with comdamnation as if he is the Law of God. My fiance and I call him Pastor Law. Raul is a finger pointer pastor not a loving pator. He always condamns people who are not Christian and other Christian churchs. He also condamns the people attending church services say “You shall you shall you shall,” “You shall not you shall not you shall not,” or “You know you should you should you should,” and “You got to pay your ties th the church.”
After church service, Law dosen’t come to pray for anybody. He only sends other pastors for prayer and goes to the back. He shows no compassion for anybody. he doesn’t greet new comers or welcomes anybody. I would not be surpries if his son shares the same attitude with his teachings. My fiance says that comparing to the Bible’s teachings, Pastor Law does not qualify as a pastor. He is more of a guest speaker than a certify pastor.
Paster Law is a suckup to Chuck Smith.
Barrack Obama does not support gay marriage nor does he support abortions. What he supports is a person’s right to choose. So many Christians will twist things to suit their own needs and beliefs. That he passes laws does not imply that he favors the wrong acts of others. What he supports is freedom and democracy, just as Jesus did. Many Christians want to kill/murder abortion doctors, imprison women for abortion or simply if they miscarry with no fault of their own. Think about this….when Jesus was comfronted by the crowds about the woman caught in adultery, the crowd wanted Him (Jesus) to fulfill their laws, to stone the woman to death. But Jesus did neighter, he kneeled to the ground, as if to write something on the ground as the spectators stood by watching and waiting to see what Jesus would do. He did not do as so many of those religious people expected, he told them….”Let he, who has no sin amongst him, cast the first stone.” Jesus caused them to take a good look at themselves. Jesus did not impose death or murder upon the woman. He and He alone knows the heart, hers, yours and mine. What Jesus said to them hit home. I don’t know what can be said to those that so hate Obama so that wisdom/knowledge/respect/compassion will hit home. Jesus then addressed the woman and said, “Go…and sin no more.” He told her. Just as the Bible tells us and as the Ten Commandments tell us…”Do not kill, do not steal, do not covet, etc.” But God does not impose his instructions, his teachings on us…HE GIVES US FREE WILL. Obama does not say to marry the same sex or to commit abortions. He respects OUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE. These matters are between the individuals and God. God will judge them and punish them when He wills. We cannot take everything into our own hands, there are many things that should be left only up to God.
The conservative party, the Republican Party, the Christian majority, they hate abortion, yet they think it alright to let those with health issues who have no insurance to die. Is an unborn baby more precious and more valuable than a child of 8 or a man of 80? All life is precious. It is hipocritical to view these issues differently. Is it alright to have a person in the military service who is gay to be wounded, killed, or otherwise thretened to defend us/our nation from those who threten us but it is not alright to allow him his right to seek his own pursuite of happiness? Our Constitution grants us that. All of us, no matter what our gender, age or creed. This is not a bad thing. So why take it away from those who chose to be different than the rest of us?
Also, the facts in politics are crucial. We cannot allow ourselves to be guided by opinions and half truths. Was Obama truely the one responsible for removing the day of prayer? Wasn’t there a lot of politics about it. Obama did not make that decision on his own. He, even if he is President, does not have that kind of power. It was voted on. Do you truly believe that President Obama is not a natural born citizen? Even after he has proved it. No matter what types of truths and facts are brought up that prove the President to be a true American and a righteous Christian, many have chosen to believe as they want and will not look into real facts. Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, all of these commentators spread fear and lies and people believe them. If someone tells you that Jesus was a radical, that He was not a Jew because he grew up in Egypt, would you believe them or would you check out the facts in the Bible?
Right now the upper 1% do not have to pay their fair share of taxes. This is wrong. But President Obama cannot fix this on his own, even if he is the President. He needs the Senate and the House to help him right the wrongs. We have the majority in the Senate, but what good does it do when Republicans demand a super majority of more than 50% of the vote….they require more than 60. The Republicans hold the House because they are in the majority. And they vote down everything that helps the elderly, the poor, the sick. They waste their times on abortion bills and abortion bills and abortion bills and tax cuts for the rich and corporations and tax cuts for the rich and corporations and tax cuts for the rich and corporations. They waste their times on reaffirming our logo, “In God we Trust.” Why, when no one has tried to change it? They waste their times on items that do nothing to improve our nation. They do vote on issues that will hurt the majority, the 99%, the middle class and the poor. They vote to cut education, social security, medicare.
It is time to clean house. We need President Obama. Look at the alternatives. Romney, Cain, Gingrich, Bockman? They do not have a clue on foreign policies, finances, enviromental issues, etc. If you thought that President Bush was bad (because he was!), think again. Do you really want to place our nation in the hands of these Republican want-to-be’s? I mean no disrespect to the Republicans. My son and daughter and their spouses are all Republicans. I just cant agree with them and I am certain they very much disagree with my views.
President Obama is not coveting the possessions of others. He does not want to take from the rich to give to the poor. He wants that the rich should also pay their fair share of our national debt and not to let it all fall on the backs of the middle class and the poor. President Obama did not mean to offend Christians in support of Muslims. He did not designate a Muslim day of prayer, someone else did. Just as Rick Perry, governor of Texes, designated in his state. Obama and his family are Christian. Now, the rich did take from the poor to enhance their own wealth, to apiece their own greed. It was Wall Street, the corrupt lobbyist and politicians who sold themselves to the financial institutions and walll street. They, the rich stole from the poor. It is just as wrong for the rich to steel as it is for anyone else. Even though I can’t see how the middle class and the poor are steeling when they are all screaming for jobs.
They debt is not due to entitlements, it is mostly due to the two wars Bush got us into that he did not pay for, it is also due to the prescription bill Bush passed that he also did not pay for. Bush also passed the ‘no child left behind’ and Bush did not provide any funds for it. Yes, Obama borrowed money to bail out the country but he was forced to because of the damage caused by ten years of Bush.
I am not saying that the Democrats are perfect and that they do no wrong. But weigh the issues. Ask yourselves, what do we need to do as a country to fix things and who best to do it. If you feel that the policies of the Republicans are good, vote Republican. But as for me, I am voting Democratic all the way. I want jobs (even though I am retired and am financially comfortable), I want to preserve Medicare and Social Security, I do not want Social Security to be given to Wall Street. I want better education. I want our bridges and our roads fixed. I want everything that the Republicans are not willing to do.
Lorenza,
Thanks so much for your comment above. I was beginning to think I was the only person who thought those things
Lorenza,
Obama, Bush, Clinton doesn’t matter as they are all part of the New World Order. The whole Democrat-Republican thing is a false culture war. I would be leary of any so called believer that supports abortion/murder. Also Obama ain’t exactly poor. Do a little more thorough research on not only Obama but many other politicians and see the roots of what dirves them. You will be suprised at how the web weaves concerning the global elites. Any so called born again Christian that uses Saul Alinsky’s “Rules For Radicals” book as a inspiration for anything is really off the mark.
Lorenzo wrote “What he supports is freedom and democracy, just as Jesus did.”
Jesus didn’t support democracy in any single Bible verse that I am aware of. Can you give me chapter and verse on that?
Lorenzo,
With all do respect. That info is sophistrical, specious and wrong. Your tie in with the adulterous woman. Not analagous to abortion. The commandments as cultural rule vs independant behavior, wrong. A country moving in opposition to God will reap the results. 1948, bibles kicked out os school. 1967, prayer kicked out of school. God’s opinion;
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Psalms 2:1-12 (KJV)
The world is in a state of confusion for the rejection of God. Distorted views such as yours help to promote the destruction of societies by your foolish, uneducated cocnclusions. It isn’t about whose sin is worse. It is about disobedience to God’s commands and reaping the results. For they have sown to the wind and reaped the whirl wind. Continue in your thought processes and you will fulfill Jesus’ words, Salt that is savourless is good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
True, I do not have a Harvard/Princeton Degree. I do not find the word “democracy” in my Kings James Version of my Bibile. What I do find is in Luke when Jesus went to the temple on the Lord’s Day and stood up to read, what the Holy Spririt led me to interpret was that Jesus said He had been sent to heal the broken hearded, to make the blind see, to set the captives free….to bring back to us the remembrance of God, the day of the Lord. Also, I am grateful that we have this medium by which to communicate. You see, when politics come up between my children and I, they are so passionate about their principals and believes that we can never agree on anything. Our conversations ususally end up in yelling and fighting. Because we cannot find between us a common ground. But I still love them and they love me, because we are a family. And all those who come to read or respond to my views, whether or not you like or hate what I say, I still love you because we are all children of Almighty God, we are a family. Wheter black or white or female or male or straight or gay or whatever, we ARE All HIS Children. And there was a time when I used to use the SOB word, but that was a long time ago. It doesn’t mean that I won’t ever use it again because as we all know, we all come short to the Glory of God. I am thankful for this medium of communications because although we differ in thought and opinion, we can’t yell at one another and hopefully, we don’t end this in a fight. I welcome your views and your opinions, there are many perspectives besides mine. So, here is what I see…..
Each time I read the Bible, even when I have read a verse many times before, I often get a different message out of the same verse. It depends, I believe, in what the Holy Spirit wants to say to me, how my God communicates with me.
I AM PRO-LIFE. Not just of the unborn, but also for the nurses and doctors and expectant mothers who are working or doing what they believe is right for them. I may not agree with them, but I respect their right to choose and their right to live. I do not respect anyone’s right to kill, wheter it be someone on death role, an unborn child or an abortion doctor.
I BELEIVE IN FAIRNESS AND EQUALITY. You hear politicians and others criticize the 99% (Occupy Wall Street) as lazy, dirty, trouble makers, asking for something for nothing, etc., etc. Perhaps it is because of the side of the fence they are stading on. They don’t consider that many are out of work not because they are lazy, but because through no fault of their own they lost their jobs. But is it the fault of Wall Street or the rich or the top 1% of our countrymen, only you can decide. Greed, money caused many corporations to take jobs overseas or to cut employment for better profits. And some occupyers are protesting this, that they feel is an injustice and unfair. Other Occupyers are protesting Wall Street and the Financial Institutions. It was because of greed that they were deregulated. And they (Wall Street, Investors, Speculators, Banks, etc.) used this to their advantage. They took risk that brought down our economy. Because of this many lost their retirements, their homes and their jobs. Do they have a reason to be upset at Wall Street and others? I think they do. The majority are not lazy, nor are they trouble makers out to kill you. They simply want the wrongs to stop and to be corrected. They want a fair shot at a future. Without them the rich would not be where they are at. They are the blood line of the body. Dry it all up and the whole country will die.
I see and hear so much hostility from the right wing politicians, the corporations and others toward these sisters and brothers of ours on Occupy Wall Street. But again, it comes down to what side of the fence they stand on. What if things were on the other shoe? For example, when Jeses was with the woman who washed His feet with her hair, the host of the house was hostil, critical of this woman. He thought within his heart, “If He (Jesus) knew what manner of woman this was, He (Jesus) would not allow her to touch Him. But Jesus, knowing the hearts of men, knew what Simon was thinking and He said, “Simon, I have something to say to you….this woman, sinned much because she loved much.” So, what is my point? I hope I can put into words what I mean to express by this. These occupyers, they are out there for reasons we don’t know. We cannot search their hearts but we should try. God did not only look at deeds, he looked at motives. Also, He said that the law was made for man, not man for the law. In other words, the law is made for the good of men. Laws are not to be made if it wrongs man. So perhaps we need to look at policies and laws that hurt our nation and change it for the good of all and not just the 1%.
Our God is a jealous God. He told us “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.” We were all created in His image. We are jealous too. Corporations are not people. They are as idols and they should not be placed before us. We are the people, the voters. I believe that Citizen’s United should be overturned. But if you disagree, than that is between you and God.
I am not connecting myself to the woman accused in adultery. I connect myself with all those who walked away without throwing the first stone. Because I am a sinner. But I do connect with what Jesus said, “Go, and sin no more.” I try, but sometimes I fall. Not that I commit adultery but sometimes I curse or lie or something. But I work at this all the time.
We need to be involved in our government. We need to see the Big View. What prosperity are we leaving our children and the following generations. What kind of a nation will we have. Will we have elected officials that will swear to our Constitution or to lobbyist and corporations. Will they protct the rights and needs of the people and the country as a whole or will our politicians continue to be led by special interrest and greed?
It is true, God said if you don’t work, you shouldn’t eat. Likewise, if we don’t involved ourselves in fixing what is wrong with our government and our politics, we don’t deserve a chance to ‘the American Dream’ nor better education nor to have the strongest, most prosperous nation in the world.
Jesus had a specific purpose. A goal. To save us all. To the point that He died for us. Many of us will choose our purposes and what we are willing to do to accomplish those purposes and those goals. Jesus was an example, when they cursed and spit at Him, He did not spit or talk back. They mocked Him, they bruised Him. He did not tell us that we should persecute those that did wrong or disagreed with Him. He told us to love our neighbors. He told us to give to the poor. He didn’t say let them die unless they work. Perhaps it was because He knew that for many there was no work for them. I don’t know……I just keep going on and on. But I’ll confess to you, I lose sleep over our current crisis.
If there is no mention in our Bible on Democracy and Freedom, does this mean it is wrong to want or to have it? I may not know where every scripture is and I may not be able to quote the proper Book or Scripture, but I do not what it says. I may not understand everything that is written, but I believe God speaks to me through His word. I may be ignorant or I may be (as some would put it) an SOB. But that’s okay. God isn’t finished with me yet.
I pray for all of you, for all of us. God Bless and Glory Be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
I spent almost my whole life at Calvary Chapel GS and I have seen and heard bad and good things, but I still went and from time to time I still go. I didn’t go or leave because of pastors or the people of the church, I went to hear the Word. I attend CC Chino Hills because I felt that God was leading me there, Raul is an amazing pastor and his “condamnation” as someone here mentioned also lead me to try and be better with my walk with God. It knocked me off my high horse and reminded me that I, along with everyone else, do not deserve God’s love and grace. And to the person who said that the people at CC don’t walk the talk? I know many people there who do. But yeah it hurts to see all these allegations but hey God is the Judge and will cast Judgement fairly. Oh and to answer the question of when has a CC pastor ever apologized for something they’ve done. They have. Oh and pass the Kool-Aid and blind fold because I apparently am a part of cult for saying something nice about Raul Ries and Calvary Chapel. lol
All I have to say is Wow! REALLY??? If I said more I may be ridiculed for my opinion being that I do not share the out right bashing of individuals opinions who have a nice word to say about Raul Ries or Calvary Chapel. I was given an impression that this site was for individuals to express their thoughts on the individual and pastor Raul Reis. As I read through this blog I realized that the expressed opinions were for discontent for Raul Ries and individuals who expressed otherwise different opinions are ridiculed as those who lack understanding. Amazing that this critical mindset is the same one the procurator’s of this site advocate against Calvary Chapel. I call Hypocrites it is like speaking with an Atheist. One could go round and round on the subject and still find no matter what is said the heart is hardened or opinions can not be swayed. If in fact this site was set up to sway the opinion of individuals who have attended, attend, or are thinking of attending Calvary Chapel I say to you attend and learn for yourself if the gospel of truth is being taught at Calvary Chapel include with this a prayer for WISDOM, KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING, AND DISCERNMENT for those who you are being taught by and influenced by. God will not let you down in this prayer. God bless you and the souls that take time to read this.
Lorenza,
You seem like a very compasionate person. However do not assume you know for a fact that those of us who do not share your Liberal leanings are somehow less compasionate, want to spew polution into the environment, take candy from children and kill kittens.
“Right now the upper 1% do not have to pay their fair share of taxes”
Really??? And how do you substantiate this?
About 2% of all Americans earn >$250,000/yr which amounts to about 12% of the total income earned in the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_distribution
Expanding out to the top 5% of income earners they account for 33% of the income earned yet pay 57% of all taxes.
http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes
So how much do you propose is a “fair share”? Were my resources too “right” leaning for you? How about NPR?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125997180
You could mine this information yourself from the IRS if you would like and tell me where I am wrong. But don’t suppose that you are somehow more righteous than me because you are a liberal (despite labeling yourself a conservative).
The difference between a liberal and conservative?
A conservative believes a liberal is wrong.
A liberal believes a conservative is evil.
My referrence for that conclusion? Your post.
Raul Ries needs to repent of his idol worship of the military and for using Godliness as a means of gain. He lives a soft and luxurous life on the backs of the SAINTS.
look up the difference between Exegesis and Eisegesis. Then consider how you are mis-using the scripture on the top of your website. Can’t take your website seriously when you mis-quote scripture.
In fact you kinda look like you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Feel free to enlighten us, rubken. Make your case and if you make a point, I’m sure it will be received well.
I am really sad. I understand this is a site to express our opinions weather: Good Bad or Ugly. Seems most have been ugly. That is sad, this is supposed to be Christian people speaking. I am glad some of you have mentioned were you are attending because I will not go to any of them except Raul’s or His Associates not once have I seen Raul get on here and defend himself and you people have done nothing but go back and forth and argue and debate. I do not have a degree or anything. But I am smart enough to know that Raul does speak the truth. I will not give into your foolish talk. So if you want to bash me because I do not agree with your opinions go ahead take a shot you seem to be a bunch of angry people. Thank You Raul for giving it the way it is and speaking the truth and letting your witness speak for itself by not answering these foolish people. But for those who did not bash Raul we will just have to pray constantly for these others whom seem to have a issue with being Jealous and Prideful, and just wanting to let their anger issues out. Love, Peace, and Joy, Veronica Makhlouf
May God forgive you judging heart Veronica and extend you the ability to look past your own experiences to understand that others may have had bad ones with this CC pastor. You are wrong Raul did respond and it was very ugly. Typical CC behavior, protect the abuser And abuse the abused. That is the legacy of the CC culture.
As I added before all the posts are so negative and this is the way the WORLD behaves. So if I am being judge mental the facts are laid before me by the way things are written out in plain English. So just so you know the definition of a judging heart would be that someone took it off pure gossip or someone else stating it. But it is posted here for all to read. . So the negative responses seem to show some have anger issues and shame on you for saying i have a judging heart (Not Alone) and for stereo typing people. You know nothing about me. Also it seems your issues are not with Calvary Chapel the issues are with yourselves and deep imbedded issues or with anyone whom disagrees with you. I will pray for you. God knows your real names that is the important thing. Shame on you for thinking yourself as God to judge others. Have a blessed New Year. I am out on this one. I have said what needs to be said and I will just shake the dust off. As it seems the messages that are positive are being taken negatively and so therefore my point has been proven. I LOVE JESUS and have researched myself what Raul and the other pastors have spoken. I think maybe Raul called some you guys and gals out so that is why you are so mad. SIN FIND YOU OUT did it?
Veronica…it is no ones desire on here to bash anyone or express unwarranted anger. You are entitled to your opinion and we welcome it. Much of what is still under the surface is the kind of information we would wish no one to know about. Let’s hope much of all this is not true. But if it is, it will have been the fault of a few of these pastors for allowing these things to go on, and in some cases, to instigate them themselves. I know nothing about Raul but many who write on here, or speak privately with the blog administrator, know him intimately, and share what they have witnessed with their own eyes.
We pray Veronica that you will constantly find Jesus and his Holy Father the sole satisfaction of your life. Hang on tight to them because there are many things on the horizon that will shake our faith.
Veronica – Happy new year – you don’t have to agree with the opinions here and no one is going to take a shot at you personally. How could they? No one knows you. But some here may not agree with what you say. You say the talk here is “foolish” and done by “angry and foolish people.” And you accuse some here of being “jealous” and “prideful” and “just wanting to let their anger issues out.” Are you supposed to be the example of a “Christian person” speaking? You are bashing just like you say the people here are doing. You think you are smart enough to know that Raul always speaks the truth. And you do not have a degree so how could you possibly know that he does? I’ve heard from some CC people before, when anyone speaks out against a wrong done or said by someone afiliated with CC; instead of being humble and looking at what is said, they just say the person speaking out is “angry” or “jealous” or what you didn’t mention that is often said “bitter.” I think it would be enlightening for you to read more here if you dare. Welcome to the “refuse collector” as CCCM put it so kindly. Peace and love and joy to you too.
WA – Amen.
Lord, touch Veronica with your love and show her the truth of your Word so that she may escape the snares of false teachers and those who misuse the Word of God for their own gains. Open her eyes to see the truth from your Word…
After reading comment after comment after comment, the main goal here is for all that want God in their lives is too achieve it, as for the human mistakes which we all are human, no matter the title we carry all fall short of the glory and grace of God. No matter what issue one individual may have with one or more pastors, they make mistakes and sin just like us. They are man, not God, they are forgiven everyday just like us, so to condemn them for their sins, which they have been forgiven for is wrong…..remember let he who is without sin cast the first stone! If u are truely a Christain where is ur forgiveness?? Because if u can not forgive you will not be forgiven! Get over your issues with Raul Ries and sounds to me like u need to work on ur own issues, don’t sit there and try to breakdown what God is building…
Rose – I don’t think the gospels teach us to be doormats. peace —
LOL after all this time the true CCers stick out like a sore thumb. “do as I say not as I do” so funny. I can’t even argue with it anymore.
So the moral to their story is….Let the “Pastors” abuse if they have money and title. Don’t say anything to show what they have done wrong. For you everything is sin for them sin is grace.
My thoughts exactly, Not Alone.
Doug…love you brother. Contending without squashing is a tender business. Veronica and scores of others find this kind of criticism hurtful but as long as we speak truthfully and with christian charity, we will have clear consciences before the Lord. I pray to God that Raul, and the other ‘Big Boys’ have no serious dirty laundry but it is entirely possible based on these statements coming out this year. Time will tell. Thanks for contending for the faith.
All I can say after reading this thread and many others on this site: I am so glad I have left CC and all Protestantism. After doing an exhaustive study of world history, I have converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. And no, it is not the same as Roman Catholicism as Dave Hunt and these other “experts” claim. (CC pastors pretty much across the board are woefully ignorant of world history) I am not intending to hijack this thread, but there is a really good book out called, Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells, by Matthew Gallatin. Gallatin is a former CC pastor and converted. This book rocked by little evangelical world and after reading it (and many other apologetic books), I converted. I will never darken the door of a CC again or any other Protestant church for that matter…
God is Love, Truth & Light… I pray that those who have been hurt by others will find peace and forgiveness in their hearts. Let go & let live… Make the decision to separate yourself & pray for others. Harboring hurt & spreading negativity only creates more hurt & negativity. You’ve shared your opinions & told your stories now let it alone. This will be a never ending battle between Pros & Cons.
God Bless All!
Ann – “Harboring hurt and spreading negativity only creates more hurt & negativity” . I disagree that that is what is going on here. There are many self help groups where people can share their pain and in sharing and seeing they are not alone and hearing the same and similar stories from those who can understand because they have been through the same or similar pain – it’s very healing for people. And many after they find healing stick around to help new people coming around. I see this blog as like that. This blog is not spreading negativity. The negativity is already there. It is discussing it and people are coming here to “talk”, because they have experienced it and this blog gives them an outlet where people will not “ignor and poo poo” the pain and negative experiences that people have had. What a concept! People here will get it. God cares.
But the main reason for the blog is the issue of Alex and his brothers and the abuse that happened to them.
Blessed be the King of King and the Lord of Lords !, Vengance is mine says the Lord, when someone hurts us it is not for us as belivers to avenge them wether it be by word or action, sounds like the result of all these issues stemed from people putting most or all of their hope in a person rather than God, Just because someone is a pastor or a spiritual leader does not mean that they are perfect, forgiveness is always Gods desire, He demonstrated that on cross when He paid for all of our sins even the ones that have been commited to you and as a result of that you have been afflicted, Now the greater question is what are you going to do with your pain ? you have 2 choices really, allow the Lord to use it to help others learn how to forgive others, or hold on to it and act like God gave you the authority to be unforgiving and Judge people , The word of God says if we come to offer Him any kind of sacrifice wether it be confession or praise or prayer, we must not have any offense in us and if we do He will direct us to go to the person we have offended or have been offended by and ask for forgiveness, we are just as guilty as our offender once we refuse to forgive, Forgiveness is a massive weapon of destruction against the kingdom of darkness, i pray that the revelation of forgiveness would be imparted into your spirit so that you will be able to walk in the freedom and liberty of Christ Jesus blessing to you in the name of the Father Son and the Holy Spirit !
Magdaline – there are more things one can do with their pain than the 2 choices you speak of. There is such a thing as benefiting from just talking about pain. Why don’t you address the people perpetrating the pain who are not owning up to their wrongs? If they humbled themselves and owned up, forgiveness would naturally be happening more and healing would happen more. It’s of course helpful for people to see remorse.
Magdaline- you have put it so well. I am so glad I chose to put my faith in God and not a man . Ann #108 so well put also. Also I cannot seem to find the person whom put it so well also. These men are just men and they sin too. Also the other thing that was stated also was “Let him who has not sin cast the first stone” Also when we harbor bitterness and resentment towards a brother or anyone then we are not forgiven. Do not want to be in those shoes on judgement day. ALL well put. But it seems those things are being ignored. I am glad for my freedom in Christ; I know it is not a license to live how I want and I will let God be God and he is seated on the throne for a reason. I am not hear to say what someone did and did not do. Just like Jesus when the woman was caught in the very act of adultery and people were ready to stone her. But Jesus stooped down and began to write in the dirt., they began dropping their stones real quick. Story sound familiar? I know understand that story very clear now. Thank You!
Love ya Veronica but someday you will see enough to prove what many already know.
Thanks for the Love wide awake that is really sweet. Love you too
))))))))))))))))))
For anyone to suggest that people posting here are putting their faith in a man and not in God is an error.
What do you call it when a leader sins, habitually, claims he’s not sinning, destroys people (whether it’s pedophilia, incest, adultery, physical abuse of children, physical abuse of wives, spiritual abuse, financial improprieties, embezzlement, other forms of stealing, slander, gossip, etc… ) ?
If I/we are on the receiving end of such habitual sins of a pastor/leader, and after attempts to deal with the sin privately (Mt. 18) have been rebuffed a few times, and we then make it public to warn the church … is that what you call “placing my faith in man” instead of God? I call it responding biblically to the unrepentant sin to warn others out of love, not revenge. To not warn others would be sinful. To not hold leaders accountable would be sinful and not following scripture.
I do not post on here “to feel better.” I post because I believe there are systemic issues in Calvary Chapel (affiliation/fellowship wide,) and specific known verifiable issues need to be addressed. Since leadership has refused to be held accountable, we are compelled by scripture to warn others and call the leaders to account.
Well, I also known the history of Byzantium. And I asked an Eastern Orthodox that prefers Russia over the Greeks why didn’t Russia support Constantinople against the Ottoman Turks in 1453, he stated because Constantinople supported heresy. Now, the good emperor Constantine the 11th supported the council of Florence because he it tried to get the west to support the last Roman or Byzantine emperor but he didn’t get the support and Constantine felt it was a comprise with the Roman Catholic Church but some Orthodox which are sometimes arch in their thelogy felt that poor old Constatinople should fall since it was making a comprise with the Roman Catholics . This is one of my critics of Orthodoxy is the Orthodox will spent time attacking sometimes Greeks or Russians or others and callingt each other a heretic. I probably know some of the history of Byzantium in its early years since I like Roman history better than some converts to Orthodoxy. do not the medieval period as much. Granted,the pluses with the Orthodox Church like the Catholic is a root in history.
Veronica – No one here is pretending they are without sin, like those with Jesus and the woman. That story was dealing with the mens’ self righteousness. The main purpose of this blog is to speak out against abuses being committed where self righteousness is keeping some in leadership from owning up that they have done anything wrong. I would think Jesus in this situation would write in the dirt the truth of the abuses committed that these men are denying and lying about. When abuses are commited, to not speak out is to participate in covering up the truth. Sometimes it is not moral and ethical to be silent. Look at Martin Luther King as an example – a man who stood up and challenged the status quo and their abuses. Should he have been told to be quiet and that he who is without sin cast the first stone? I don’t think so. His point wasn’t that he was saying he was more righteous. His point was that he could no longer stay silent about the abuses he saw, and no longer could not try to do something about them.
Sue: All I can say is that is what it seems like.I do not think you would like people posting your sins.
So all I am saying that the posts are more negative and they seem to be doing more harm than good.
Hope all can find closure one day and I am not saying or I do not think anyone is trying to say these men do not sin or are guiltless. They will tell you first hand they are sinners.
So I hope closure can be brought to this.
There will be closure, one way or another.
We are required to speak out and warn others and call unrepentant leaders to account.
I’m sorry the posts seem negative, but that’s what happens when pastors in unrepentant sin are allowed to continue abusing the sheep; and they are strengthened to continue in sin when people remain silent and only speak positively.
The fact that spiritual leaders are sinners is not the point. We all know they are sinners like us. The point is that they are in unrepentant sin and empowered to abuse the sheep. That should not be “graced over.” They should be held accountable and called to repentance. There are consequences for leaders in sin … that don’t require being put into jail.
Brother and sisters,
Doesnt Jesus want us to “Build up with our tongues not to tear down?” Didnt he forgive all our sins? Arent we all Sinners? Is one sin greater than another?
Hmmm……
Joe, Yes, in my humble opinion some sins are greater than others.
Joe, as far as our salvation goes- you are right. No one is less or more a sinner in God’s eyes- we are all on equal footing to receive eternal damnation unless we have accepted Christ. But…..in the world we live there are sins that are more evil and result in greater negative consequences for the culture and family. Telling a lie is not equal to a pathological liar. Looking at one dirty picture is not equal to cheating on your wife…..and so on.
Joe:
Jude 1:4
Titus 1:16
2 Peter 2:1-2
Matthew 23:2-3
Ephesians 5:11
1 Timothy 5:19-22
Matthew 18:15-17 (especially 17)
As far as Hierarchy of Sin, I’m in agreement with FG above. “Lying”, “Pride”, “Homosexuality” are listed as “Abominations” to the Lord as well as not helping the poor and needy.
There is also blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Pastors/Elders are held to a higher Standard and Stricter Judgment according to Scripture.
All i can say is raul is my role model, Man loves the lord 24-7 ,And i strive to do the same. God bless you raul.
Joe,
RE: “Doesnt Jesus want us to “Build up with our tongues not to tear down?”
Actually Joe, NO!
Jesus verbally slaughtered religious hierarchy, literally BEAT the money changers in the Temple….. they deserved it.
Why do you think they CRUCIFIED him Joe?
For saying, “Why can’t we all just get along?”
Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on Earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Luke 12:49-53)
CC’s basis in the Jesus Movement makes PEACE AT ANY COST a commonly held belief among CCites.
That belief is ERROR.
Jesus stood for TRUTH.
Jesus ESPECIALLY stood for truth when sheep were being slaughtered for a lie.
Now PEACE AT ANY COST is NOT the philosophy of these toxic CC pastors when they have beef with someone.
My most recent CC pastor said repeatedly of a former member, “I just wanted to dig a hole out back and bury him.”
my opinion,and my opinion only..I believe Pastor Raul is a great teacher of Gods word.A great example of a Christian man.And I thank God for him…In Gods love !!!!!! p.s please dont reply back to me.you asked me for my opinion.so i gave it.i dont need yours.. thanks!!!
Dear Glen Vigil, thank you for your opinion. Please don’t reply back to me, I am not asking for a response.
Jack said,
“My most recent CC pastor said repeatedly of a former member, ‘I just wanted to dig a hole out back and bury him.’ ”
Wasn’t it Raul Ries who said he called a Mexican mafia hit man to take out someone in his church, but then his wife stopped him and he later repented? Isn’t there audio of Raul admitting this in a sermon or something?
I’ve been saved for 9 years now. Sadly, I’ve been to too many churches where the pastor was to be reverenced more than the Lord himself. Had I not read the bible myself, had the Lord not help me through it all, I believe I would have went back to the way I was. After nine years, I’ve learned to take the good and leave the bad and let God be the judge. I’m blessed my Raul’s messages and have learned much from his teachings. He seems sincere and truthful. He’s quite open about his past and has let the church know that he struggles with anger, even today. In the end, God will judge us all. God Bless – Angel
I would be dead if it were not for CC Golden Springs, the pastoral staff, and Raul. I think Matthew 7:5 fits this situation well: “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”. Take it to heart all here and follow the words of the Lord “Love your brother as yourself.”. Nuff said.
why do you care so much about calvary chapel and pastor Raul.. Ive been going to calvary chapel for 21 years. I dont serve or put calvary on a peddle stool or the teachers i keep my eyes on Christ… He is the one who died for me!!!! I let the holy spirit guide me through my life. I have enough to worry about in my life then to care about pastor Rauls car or watch.. And as for pastor chuck PLEASE don’t kick a man while he is down. You are so busy judging and the bible say’s ” judge not lest ye be judged.” Matt 7:1
We will all be judged for everything we have said and done! I wonder if you would speak to Jesus that way. Well you have, because He lives in all believers. He said what ever you do to unto the least of these my brothers, you have done it unto me. See what fire the tongue ignites. It is the Lord Jesus who has called brother Raul not you. He is God’s servant not yours. So who are you to judge another’s servant. To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed he will be made to stand for God is able to make him stand.
Learn from King David who would not lift is hand against King Saul, nor would he say
anthing agains Him. David called him the Lord’s anointed. Be cautious, you may find yourself confident selves fighting agains The Lord God who is mighty.
I am sorry a servant, the so called leaders of CC or anywhere else are NOT KINGS, they are called to be servants and are equal to the flock. Yes, we are to submit to those who are overseers to the church IF they follow Scripture and are not abusing the flock. Shepherds to the church DO NOT PROMOTE themselves and in Scripture Paul has told the flock to call out those who have abused and misled the flock with false teaching. Sorry this one does not fly.
A S wrote “Learn from King David who would not lift is hand against King Saul, nor would he say anthing agains Him.”
You did compare Raul to Saul, right? So you are saying that Raul is corrupt and about ready for God to judge him and that we should just leave him well enough alone knowing that God’s judgement will soon come against Raul?
If so, I’m withya.
Looks like a thug. Talks like a charlatan. Dresses like a criminal.
What so you expect from a man who would want to murder and massacre his own children?
Can someone explain to me why some of the younger CC pastors want to dress like gangsta’s? Why they try to pimp out their rides with people’s sacrificed money? Why when they reach 40, they don’t seem to grasp they are not the youth anymore?
Sorry, just heard another story of pain, damage, and the pastor acting like a thug, pack’in heat, intimidating others out of his own insecurities, and not bothering to check the other side of the story properly before administering church discipline
happy,just heard another story of praise and glory!God is good ,and still using His people to ,help,lead,and guide to our father and savior Jesus Christ.Thanks to all our great Calvary Chapel Pastors..God bless you all .
Thanks for caring,and having the heart of a servant.continue your good work Pastors!…God bless you all!!!!
im sorry about my previous comments.please forgive..i have repented!!!
I thank God pastor Chuck has allowed TWO women evangelize over KWVE radio station!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope the other pastors at CC’s will follow this good example. God Bless ALL of you in Christ Jesus OUR LORD And SAVIOR, Amen.
I really appreciate Pastor Chuck and Pastor Broderson allowing WOMEN to evangelize over the radio. The other pastors will do well to follow this good example!!! People need to be SAVED!!!!!!!
DEAR FRIEND, I URGE YOU TO ASK JESUS CHRIST TO COME INTO YOUR HEART AND LIFE. LET JESUS CHRIST BE YOUR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR. DO IT NOW.
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WILL FORGIVE YOU OF ALL YOUR SINS.
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOU WILL EVER MAKE WHILE YOU ARE ALIVE. I BLESS YOU. I BLESS ALL OF US IN HIS NAME, AMEN.
DEAR FRIEND, I URGE YOU TO ASK JESUS CHRIST TO COME INTO YOUR HEART AND LIFE. LET JESUS CHRIST BE YOUR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR. DO IT NOW.
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WILL FORGIVE YOU OF ALL YOUR SINS.
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOU WILL EVER MAKE WHILE YOU ARE ALIVE. I BLESS YOU. I BLESS ALL OF US IN HIS NAME, AMEN.
I only heard of Raul Ries on Christian radio in the Seventies (which in the Los Angeles area had a heavy Calvary Chapel presence). He was then pastor of CC West Covina, not CC Golden Springs. The one thing I DO remember about him was him being rabidly anti-Catholic — Alberto Rivera, Jack Chick, Hislop’s Two Babylons quoted chapter-and-verse (“Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz”), and a side comment on a non-CC talk show advising how to sneak a coming-of-age rite past him as he would not tolerate anything like a “Romish” Quinceaneria.
For the record, I have always “had a bad feeling about” Calvary Chapel. Nothing I could point to and say “AHA!” (especially to a Calvary Chapelite), but a general atmosphere of something “not right”, like CC somehow managed to collect all the worst and disturbing aspects of American Evangelical Christianity. And Calvary Chapelites always seemed to be starry-eyed True Believers of the type associated with Jonestown and the Khmer Rouge.
Re Glory:
Over at Slacktivist, they call that “Say-the-Magic-Words Salvation.” It’s the end stage of the Evangelical emphasis on the Year/Month/Day/Hour/Minute/Second of Salvation, not the continuing process.
I’m not really sure how many people you are leading to the Lord with your web site, or how much you are helping people to grow in the Lord. I listen to Raul on the Internet and get much from his teaching, therefore I will continue to send him money every month that others may hear his wonderful teaching of God’s word.
Mike, I’m not a Pastor, I’m not nearly Qualified per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1.
Neither is Raul.
You can send every dime you’ve got to Raul’s man kingdom, no problem. Knock yourself out.
It’ll probably help buy his next Omega watch and pay for his nice trips around the world etc.
Why don’t you just skip the Middle Man and give your money directly to the poor and needy like Jesus taught? Why fund Raul Ries’s ministry machine and man kingdom?
Mike, do you know how much Raul gets paid?
How much of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs Budget goes to help the needy and to feed the poor etc?
I’ll bet:
1. You won’t get the financials if you request them and will be on “the list” if you do
2. Raul makes a TON of money off of Jesus
3. A very small percentage of that dollar you give actually goes to help anyone besides Raul’s ministry machine
When a congregation does not have a clear understanding and means to hold every one, including the leadership accountable, there will be foxes, who are placed in charge of keeping “charge” over the flock. The “Moses” model is not valid, no matter what Chuck Smith states. We are all annointed who are in Christ and we are all called to preach the gospel while holding one another to an account.
To sweep anthing under the rug or to minimize behaviors that clearly are against God’s Word is nothing more than joining in and reinforcing this type of wrong doing, particularly those who are placed in leadership roles. To say that there is no sanction or authority to hold another Calvary Chapel pastor accountable is not biblically sound. It is a easy way to play the middle field and to keep oneself from having to truely love in word and deed, however. It is a weak position and it is avoiding one’s duties and obligation in protecting the body of Christ.
Being with Calvary Chapel since 1978—–I am going to say to the leaders: we in the church are calling every pastor forward to give an account of all men who are cheating, lying, and abusing their family members. We are calling men and women alike to step to the plate and stop committing adultery and fornication. We are calling all who are or have or is playing games with another while violating their marital vows and displacing their partner. We are calling each person to stand up and stop mocking God’s grace and claiming Once Saved Always Saved when in fact any attempts for most to bring these ungoldy behavior into the light is meant with the infamous weapon rule: To silent and to discredit the abuse, the forsaken, the betrayed, and the bullied.
It is true that Calvary Chapel leadership has a history of turning their faces upon such atrocities within the congregation. It is also true that they are very weak on enabling others to take a more active part in bringing truth to the light. Yet God’s Word tells us that we are all filled with the Holy Spirit who are in Christ. It even tells us the the least of these ought to be able to decide these matters. Hopefully, in time as the leadership changes hands, God will raise up one who will be more in line in not just preaching God’s Word, but also implement it as well. It takes more than a fatherly smile and a “nice” or passive shepherd to lead those who want so much to know and to live in the way, the truth, and the light.
Ljp
All I can say after reading all these comments is that I am glad I have left CC and all of Evangelical Protestantism, for that matter. I predict that CC will have gone by the wayside about one generation after Chuck Smith passes away.
You are so right, Headless Unicorn. CC-ites do seem to almost be under a spell. I know as I was one for 20 years. The smugness and the sense of “we’re God’s cutting-edge church on earth” thing really got to me after a while. That and the certainty that they are so right about everything. And the constant anti-Catholic rant when most of them, including the Pastors are so ignorant about the Catholic Church and world history in general, it’s shocking. Because if they actually did know history, they would know that the Catholic Church with all its flaws and problems way closer to what the New Testament church was doing than Evangelical Protestantism ever is. Ignorance on fire is the way I would describe CC and all Evangelical Protestantism.
Raul Ries is definitly being used to bring many into the Kingdom of God as every week I witnessed at least 30-40 people responding to the altar calls there. However I found it strange as I witnessed this go on for an entire year, yet noticed a very small, but noticable decline in attendance. I have to chalk it up to the fact that Raul, IMO, is a “called” evangelist. He is clearly not a teacher as his bible prophecy is very limited, and in the one year I attended CCGS, he never got out of Matthew 23! I sat in the pews listening to the same thing every week and finally (along with many other close friends) had to leave because we simply weren’t growing there. In fact I felt ZERO love and constant condemnation even as God was molding and chipping away at my heart! I definitley can relate to that almost “snobby” attitude of being totally “right” while everyone else besides our church is wrong. I myself was beginning to form that “self righteous” attitude. Thank God my eyes were opened to the truth of God grace, mercy, forgiveness and love! (these are subjects that you rarely hear preached on at CCGS, instead the focus is on you and your works constantly!) You’ll hear about Jesus only during their worship (which is the thing I miss the most about CCGS) and during the last prayer. I write this message out of frustration as I know personally 2 people who have recently dropped going to church, because they couldn’t handle the immense pressure to be perfect OR ELSE…that is preached here. Its as if the work of the cross BARELY covers your sin, ONLY if you behave….which is NOT the true gospel! God loves you and He promises He will NEVER leave you! As for me, I believe HIM!!!
Danny, your story is encouraging. It’s encouraging because God opened your eyes and led you.
While we pray and act towards CC leaders being held accountable, for the purpose of repentance, restoration, and to protect the sheep; we also pray that the sheep’s eyes will be opened and that God will lead them to a safe, healthy place.
I thank God for taking care of you, Danny.
Amen, Grateful.
A prayer well said and desperately needed for all concern. Linda
P.S. By the way, I don’t know Raul personally but I do listen to his studies online. He is only one of the few who does speak the truth and is willing to tell someone they are going to spend eternity in hell if they continue to practice adultery and other behaviors. I wish other pastors would have the courage of boldness to teach this as well.
As for me I came to the Lord as a result of a fluke of going to a CC Cypress to watch a free movie, called: “Fury to Freedom. It grieves my heart to hear the negative reports concerningin Rauls personal behavior towards people. I make no excuse for him and yes, he should be held accountable. Given what I heard as he shared, he owns having a quick temper that he has to constantly be mindful. More recently he’s become more aware and educated regarding the PTSD that he suffered as an abused child and a veteran. That is a huge breakthrough, therapeutically speaking. As for attendance falling off, I think it has more to do with Raul teaching and admonishing believers and unbelievers about the reality of sin when the listener would prefer to have their ear tickled instead.
I will pray for Raul to pay closer attention to the way he treats others and ask the Lord to increase his awareness of this. I will also continue to ask the Lord to raise men up in all churches, as well as , women to be bold to speak the truth and to deal with any leaven that may be tearing the body and the family apart. For those harmed, I pray for restoration and healing and a stedfast love in Christ knowing that you too, can speak the truth without condemnation no matter if you are believed or not believed. The truth is the truth and no one has a right to expect you to participate, ignore, or enable your own victimization. God help us all—–Maranatha Linda Pappas
A prayer well said and desperately needed for all concern. Linda
P.S. By the way, I don’t know Raul personally but I do listen to his studies online. He is only one of the few who does speak the truth and is willing to tell someone they are going to spend eternity in hell if they continue to practice adultery and other behaviors. I wish other pastors would have the courage of boldness to teach this as well.
As for me I came to the Lord as a result of a fluke of going to a CC Cypress to watch a free movie, called: “Fury to Freedom. It grieves my heart to hear the negative reports concerningin Rauls personal behavior towards people. I make no excuse for him and yes, he should be held accountable. Given what I heard as he shared, he owns having a quick temper that he has to constantly be mindful. More recently he’s become more aware and educated regarding the PTSD that he suffered as an abused child and a veteran. That is a huge breakthrough, therapeutically speaking. As for attendance falling off, I think it has more to do with Raul teaching and admonishing believers and unbelievers about the reality of sin when the listener would prefer to have their ear tickled instead.
I will pray for Raul to pay closer attention to the way he treats others and ask the Lord to increase his awareness of this. I will also continue to ask the Lord to raise men up in all churches, as well as , women to be bold to speak the truth and to deal with any leaven that may be tearing the body and the family apart. For those harmed, I pray for restoration and healing and a stedfast love in Christ knowing that you too, can speak the truth without condemnation no matter if you are believed or not believed. The truth is the truth and no one has a right to expect you to participate, ignore, or enable your own victimization. God help us all—–Maranatha Linda Pappas
Re: Linda said,
“P.S. By the way, I don’t know Raul personally but I do listen to his studies online. He is only one of the few who does speak the truth and is willing to tell someone they are going to spend eternity in hell if they continue to practice adultery and other behaviors. I wish other pastors would have the courage of boldness to teach this as well.”
Linda, Of the CC pastors I know they all teach the Word, and all were/are firm on sin and it’s consequences. Here’s my point: I think anyone who has the gift of teaching can teach/preach and it be fairly sound; that the Holy Spirit will use it to touch our hearts with truth. However, being used by God should not be confused with walking with God. The two are very different.
The Bible warns us that some will preach for financial gain, and some were preaching the gospel to cause the Apostle Paul harm, YET, we are told to still rejoice that the gospel is preached.
I still rejoice that the gospel is preached in CC. I acknowledge that even CC pastors in clear verifiable biblical sin have still taught well and empowered by the Holy Spirit. But as many others on this blog have testified to, it’s helpful in the beginning to get the teaching of the Word, but one cannot stay in too long, lest they pick up the bad habits of how they treat people, as well as get stuck in the immaturity that is often described as remaining in Jr.High.
Unfortunately, Raul has a very long list of corruption, abuse, greed, and people he’s destroyed. To this very day he publicly supports and defends CC pastor Bob Grenier, whom this blog is dedicated to …
I also heard about Raul’s brother Xavier doing something very finiancially unscruplous to one of my brothers in Lord and his wife. To the say the least it is deplorable at best and wicked at worst. I like the way both Xavier and Raul preach but I do not like the way Raul idolizes the Military as well as the financial abuses I have heard. As far as Xavier goes, what I heard about him is terrible, seems to be a lover of money.
The devil is the number one accuser of the brethren!!! I like the rawness n str8 from the word teaching… N HIS SON RYAN IS SUPER HOT!!! lol if u don’t like Raul n his teachings… Pray for him..
Many of us do … pray for him.
Grateful: I am so appreciative of your attention in gleaning from what I shared to shed light upon the difference between walking and talking:
“Here’s my point: I think anyone who has the gift of teaching can teach/preach and it be fairly
sound; that the Holy Spirit will use it to touch our hearts with truth. However, being used by God should not be confused with walking with God. The two are very different.”
I am in 100% agreement with this. Believe me, I know the difference and yes, CC is quite infamous for using phrases that are manipulative and guilt ridden to prevent the leadershop from being questioned regarding many things that those whom they are supposed to be shepherding, if you will from holding them to an account regarding such things as, finances and church discipline issues. In reference to a few of the comments made on this site pertaining to: God will judge them and if we are without sin, throw the first stone, I would like to say we need to take the whole counsel of God and balance it with those scripture that also tells us that we are:
Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. Ephesians 5:11
When a pastor or any other is practicing, covering up, or refusing to apply church discipline and protecting the person wronged, then they need to be held to an account. The problem with CC is this mindset that is perpetrated among the leaders as well as the congregants that is also found in a dysfunctional and addictive family system. It is terriby narcissistic and ever so destructive towards those things that are of the Lord, but have been used instead to keep people silent and not speaking the truth.
I, myself have tried to do the Matthew things have come up against a brick wall concerning my husband and his adulterous bigamist lifestyle he leads, while going on missionary trips, and attending a couple retreat, but without me. For my safety, I have been in hiding since 2008. We are married, not ever legally separated. But who am I to demand that his pastor as well as other hold him to an account. So, I cry and I grieve and I wait and when given the opportunity, I speak the truth, not wavering, trusting in My God, My Lord, and my Savior. I am in hiding as my husband has made several threats towards me. He even showed me 4 bullets, but told he didn’t have a gun. I took this to his pastor and being the person my husband is, he denies. Yet he tells me that he is now studying to be a CC Pastor.
So on a personal note, I can testify regarding the failure of CC Pastors to practice the word, as well as, to teach it. LjP
Re: Linda P.
“… have come up against a brick wall concerning my husband and his adulterous bigamist lifestyle he leads, while going on missionary trips, and attending a couple retreat, but without me. For my safety, I have been in hiding since 2008. We are married, not ever legally separated. But who am I to demand that his pastor as well as other hold him to an account.”
This grieves me deeply!
I’m so sorry, Linda. It’s wrong, just wrong. Even the elders under Moses in the OT were told to thoroughly investigate accusations, both sides. That was their JOB. In the NT the elders/leaders are supposed to carefully care for the sheep. They are supposed to help resolve matters in a godly way. If your story is how you tell it, then they have sinned against you and against God.
Thanks Grateful. Yes, as much that depends upon me, I have spoken the truth. I was thoroughly and completely broken when CC failed to do thier “Job.” My husband had violated the sanctity of our marriage and now CC had joined in with him, not once asking if I was hungry or doing all right. It was due to me being tired of the heat and being hypoglycemic, losing a rapid 35 pounds that I contacted another church that also knew my husband. The pastor brought me protien bars, water, and prayed with me. I would have perished had he not done this. I have no reason to bear a false witness against anyone. For since I became a Christian 1978, the love of the Lord has reigned deeply in my heart towards even those who would behave as an enemy. It is because of my honesty that my husband was able to do and say, knowing that I don’t walk in the way of evil and will die rather than to be compromise my walk with the Lord. Yes, I have told my husband that it is not just me he has violated by the Lord, as well as, those in the body. Please pray and thanks for affirming me and what I’ve shared. This is not a strange occurrence in CC. I’m just a drop in the bucket and I’m not afraid to say so. Although I know there is a chance I may lose my life over it. If so, others will know why and i will be home with He who does love me.
I was reading back on the comment during the January month regarding the attitude and thoughts expressed by some that this site is too negative; that we should not be so negative, and that we aught to not be so hard on pastor, leaders, and others who have perpetrated the wrongs that have been committed by them. And I think about Scripture and how wonderful it it that God in his mercy, kindness, love, and justice gave us His Word to teach and to guide us. When I read comments such as these, I grow angry, as I know they are stated out of ignorrance and a blind loyalty towards people whom have and are committing such atrocitites. I think about history and stop at the genocides that took place among my people, the Jews. I go farther back and think about my Lord and my Savior and think about what He endured for the sake of all, even though such leaders as Scribes, Pharisees, and others chose to do what is in present day called: Group Think. I think about the Pied Piper and how the music played by his flute, and I think that to say that we aught to repent from making these abuses known because, a person admits to having sin, but continues to conduct themselves as before because the leadership failed to adequately address and support the ones being abused. What more, I think there is a terrible misunderstanding among many that just because one say they are not without sin does not excuse the sin, nor does it give license for others to tell the victim that they need to be silent and think more positively towards the leaders/pastors FOR DOING NOTHING——
Please turn you Bibles to: Leviticus 19:17
Ezekiel 13:22 – False prophets encourage people to continue in sin by not telling them that they need to turn (repent) from their wicked ways. When people sin, faithful preachers must not let them continue thinking they are acceptable before God. If we do not rebuke them, they may be lost.
Ezekiel 33:7-9,14-16 – If preachers do not warn people of their sins, and the people are lost, God will also hold the preachers accountable. Some cannot bring themselves to tell folks they are wrong, so they compromise the truth. God will hold them accountable for the lost souls that result.
People in sin need to hear exactly what God’s word says. To withhold the truth does not do anyone a favor.
[Jeremiah 23:12; 26:2,3; Isaiah 6:10; 2 Corinthians 7:8ff; Acts 20:21; 17:30; 26:20; Luke 16:27-31; 5:32; Jonah 3:4,5; Proverbs 1:23; Revelation 3:19]
For those who think it is mean or wrong or ungodly to seek out among the bretheren or even if no resolution and the abuse continues, even by the silence of those that have turned a deaf ear, permitting this leaven to continue on, they do appeal to those in the legal system, I would ask you to reconsider. For it is this belief that permits sin to reign within the congregation.
It is the voice of the those who have been injured that God can use to make CC a safer place to be. There is no wrong in this in refusing to be silent. It is the love in our hearts that compels us not to give up on speaking the truth, as we know there are many others who are afraid to do so or not mature enough in Christ to know what to do. It is not love when anyone silences the victims, nor is it love when anyone gives a blanket statement to excuse one’s choice to continue to sin, to hide sin, or to minimize sin.
Do not be deceived. When we stand before Him, we will be asked what we did knowing that the body was being torn apart due to the rampant and vicious attack upon those who trusted and believed that we could count on our leaders to hold those who were doing evening and practicing sexual immorality, lying, adultery, fornication, child abuse, spousal abuse, and all other kinds of behaviors that should not have been named among us. For those who think that it is best to be quiet, please know that this is precisely what has taken place throughout history: playing in safe and hoping it doesn’t touch or concern you. Remember what Scripture tells us:
1 Corinthian 12: 12-25. We are all part of the body and no part is more important than the other. We are not to be respector of persons when it comes to sin. God is not and He tells not to be either, for good cause. We who have been abused and persecuted by the leadership of CC due to their lack of leading according to God’s Word is a shame to us all. To remain silent would be adding their sins to our account and to walk away in silent leaving more victims or future victims behind is not the way either. We must love the Lord, our God enough to speak the truth and keep speaking the truth until they are convicted by the Holy Spirit to enable a purging and restitution process to take place in order for reconcilation to come about.
It is not right for any woman to be told that she cannot speak to a pastor in private unless her abuser is there. It is not right for this abuser be permitted to participate in ministry while their wife is scavenging for food in dumpster or having to find a safe place to sleep or heaing her husband rage at her on the phone telling her to kill herself while he continues to sleep with another female, then stand in the midst of the congregation with his hands raised up before the Lord. It is not right to prepare any to take on a leadership/pastor role unless he has reconciled with his wife. Saying, I’ve sinned and I repent is not good enough—–she is the best judge to determine if and when she should be trusting him. And she should be totally supported by those in leadership to stand firm on this.
It is not love when anyone turns a blind eye and a deaf ear to those being oppressed, abandoned, abused, and rejected.
Testing, not sure if comment took, but typing this to find out. LjP
Linda I will be in prayer for you and as for a quick resolution.
Thank you for sharing with others what you have been going through.
You were right to get away from the situation for you were and are dealing
with people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. They only see themselves
in the picture and anyone else is just an inconvenience. They are aphids
who have to have a source to feed on. That is why the Calvary Chapel Abuse
Blog was good because it was an outside source of truth exposing these
wolves without being close to them. Anyone that is involved with these men
will only be absorbed into their system of corruption and evil. This is why the Bible
is clear about exposing these men and kicking them out, for once they get their
talons into the leadership there is no getting them out.
Tears being poured out on His altar as I read you comment, FG. Flooded with grief and a broken heart as I lost everything that was near and dear to me, including the trust that CC would help my husband to repent and get the treatment recommended to enable him to make the amends and to prove that I could be safe, trust, and know he would not longer cheat on me or put our marriage at risk.
My walk with the Lord is even stronger and more stedfast, but my heart yearns for the years which the locust have eaten. I need your prayers and the prayers of all saints desperately as I put one foot in front of the other to continue to trust and to hold fast to the promises that He has given us. I think, what would I do without Jesus—I cannot even imagine the alternative. Yet, I look around and I see so many perishing and my heart grows heavy with much sorrow and even anger at times. Oh, that the Lord would use me to speak truth into the hearts of many. May He be merciful towards providing protection as I continue on towards the promised land. I can’t do this by myself and I need every saint to stand beside me as i wander through this land looking for safe shelter and a kind word from time to time. It does nourish and strengthen the soul, you know. So, thank you from the depth of my heart and God bless you for taking the time to share with me. May it also be used to strengthen and to encourage others as well. Isaiah 41:10
Linda, just wanted you to know that my family prayed for you today and my heart is broken
for what you are going through. Prayed that you would be given such peace that passes all understanding. I agree with you about Jesus and our need for Him- could not imagine even what I would be without Him.
Much Blessings and Christian love
Faith
I get a kick out of people who take zero accountabiliy for their actions..Im glad pastor raul checked the people on this site especially alex who is just a little cry baby.. Serious get a life quit blaming a man and think you set the standards! God does and i look forward to the day you have to give a account of your life by the way where God leads he provides hos church is evident about it..
Rdm
First of all it is very telling that you would want to look forward to the day someone else has to give an account of their life in front of God. I do not relish looking at someone elses life, not Raul Ries or Bob Genier or anyone else for that matter when they face God. You and I will be busy with our own thank you. But while we are here on this earth God does call us to see if those in the church are teaching what is true from Gods Word and if they are not we have to call it out. I do not believe “Touch not God’s anointed” garbage that is being put out by many pastors today. Sorry.
It is also interesting that many of these pastors quoted on this site, are taking zero accountability for their actions and many dear Christians are left bruised and broken in their paths. There are quite a few witnesses Rdm that would definitely leave doubt that these things did not occur- why don’t you try to look at their side instead of assuming it is not true?
Dear, I feel some resentment in his words and hurt the work of Christ, more harm than a bad witness. Remember that our Lord said, “For nothing is covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. (Luke 12:2), whether if someone acts badly, pray for him, not slander the gospel . in doing so they are also ustede sin.
And finally, God would prosper a work that was not him And now I say from these men and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, vanish, (Acts 5:38)
But if it be of God, ye can not overthrow, not you even be found fighting against God. (Acts 5:39)
Look for their salvation, I can see what God has done through the ministry of Raul Ries, but people can tell you.
Greetings.
Do not set your eyes on man, but on God.
I don’t believe any of us are setting our eyes on man. I believe we are doing what God has told us to do when it comes to leaven being in the church. To ignore this and to be silent would be taking our eyes of God and sticking our head in the sand.
Isn’t that what happen during the holocaust? Isn’t that what happens we want to stay in a Pollyanna state of mind by putting a bubble around us and avoiding the those who have been oppressed, abandoned, rejected, betrayed, persecuted from within the very walls of the fellowship that we held so near and dear to our hearts?
I’m sorry: it’s late—allow me to edit what I just wrote.
I don’t believe any of us are setting our eyes on man. I believe we are doing what God has told us to do when it comes to leaven being in the church. To ignore this and to be silent would be taking our eyes off of God and sticking our head in the sand.
Isn’t that what happened during the holocaust? Isn’t that what happens we want to stay in a Pollyanna state of mind by putting a bubble around us and avoid those who have been oppressed, abandoned, rejected, betrayed, persecuted from within the very walls of the fellowship that we held so near and dear to our hearts?
We are to keep our eyes on God and be obedient to His Word——-to love mercy, to do justly, and to walk humbly with our God. Some people think that to deal with the heavier things that occur in the church body is causing division and being devisive. Some people think that we ought to be so heavenly minded, we are to ignore the uglier things that are being done in the fellowship between one another. Some people don’t understand that God has told us that we are not to be so heavenly minded, we are of no earthly good. We each have a God Given Responsibility to stop the abuse, the corruption, and the leaven that is going on in the church. Paul tells us that we are to deal with these things and not to boast as if they are not going on —–WHEN IN FACT THEY HAVE, THEY ARE, AND THEY CONTINUE TO BE. Not angry, just trying to someone get through to those who tend to be more bent on protecting the “man” than the Word.
What did Paul say when he was exhorting those who were failing to apply church discipline? “What, do you count me an enemy because I have spoken the truth to you?”
Linda – some good points!
Passtor Raul Ries has been able to help a lot of people come to Christ because of his “no-nonsense” approach. I have attended his “Somebody Loves You” crusades since 1997, and heard him speak, I have seen and observed how he carries himself. A man who has a lot of baggage usually shows it in his body language, and Pastor Ries has a dignity and confidence that can only come from peace and grace that results from a true relationship with GOD. I love his direct approach. And, too, he doesn’t talk about other men in a bad light, instead, he loves to make fun of himself. So, there. I don’t understand why other men would delve into people’s lives trying to dissect them, good or bad, it doesn’t reflect decency and self confidence.
Anita, just because you have not seen first hand what sin Raul has done to others doesn’t mean he hasn’t done it.
I’ll take the word of the many witnesses who have seen it first hand over your speculation based on an observation of his body language.
My last CC pastor had a great confidence and often made fun of himself. He turned out to be a scoundrel behind the scenes. He preached on patience, stole a bunch of money, fell morally … all the while putting on marriage conferences and preaching on integrity, and having outbursts of anger at his staff behind closed doors.
It’s not their carefully crafted image and learned public behavior that is the litmus test. It’s what they do when the public is not looking.
PASTOR RAUL HAS BEEN MY PASTOR SINCE 1982. HE IS AN AWESOME MAN OF GOD! HE HAS A PASSION FOR THE LOST AND FOR THE NEXT GENERATION COMING UP. HE SURELY SPENDS TIME WITH THE LORD AND RECEIVES FROM THE LORD BEFORE HE TEACHES US THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT. PASTOR RAUL AND SHARON DO NOT KNOW ME PERSONALLY BUT I KNOW THEM BY WATCHING HOW THEY WALK IN THE LORD. THEY CERTAINLY WALK THE TALK. MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE BEEN SO BLESSED BEING UNDER HIS TEACHING. THE WORD OF THE LORD IS NOT COMPROMISED IN ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER. HE IS A LOVING SHEPHERD AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN IN HIS BIBLE STUDY CANNOT SAY THEY HAVE NOT BEEN TAUGHT A MEATY, HEALTHY SPIRITUAL MEAL!! LORD BLESS AND KEEP YOU PASTOR RAUL AND SHARON!! YOUR FRIEND, PAULA
WHAT!?
I Must be really naive— I just got on the computer and not often- and read all the negative comments on Chuck Smith and Raul Ries and I am sure on the others- Yes we are all sinners and save by grace- we have a responsibility to laid all issues and sins on the table and work them out and move on for the Kingdom of God. What happen to FEARING GOD——-GOD HELP YOUR CHILDREN BECAUSE IT WILL START WITH US FIRST BEFORE THE PEOPLE THAT DO NOT BELIEVE
Re: Janet Medina
“…we have a responsibility to laid all issues and sins on the table and work them out and move on for the Kingdom of God. What happen to FEARING GOD…”
Yes, we do have a responsibility to work out issues. If you read this site you will find that is precisely the problem. We went to our churches and asked to have issues worked out only to be shunned. It was the CC leadership that refused to even talk about the issues.
We’d like to know what happened to FEARING GOD on the part of our CC leaders?
In the meantime, we obey scripture and warn others, because we FEAR GOD.
“We’d like to know what happened to FEARING GOD on the part of our CC leaders?
In the meantime, we obey scripture and warn others, because we FEAR GOD.”
Grateful all I have are two words: DITTO + AMEN!
My heart is broken in finding this site on accident. I try my best to live for the Lord, be an example to others so they can see a difference in me and spread God’s love to those around me…including my enemies. Coincidentally I happen to attend Calvary chapel golden springs with Raul Ries. No one has a perfect walk regardless of what title they hold but their walk is between them and the Lord. If any wrong has taken place, the Lord will bring it out to the open in His perfect timing. it seems as though many repeat commentators on this site have a lot of animosity in their hearts. Instead of gossiping about the misdealings within the leaders of CCs, maybe you should get on your knees and pray for them. And at the same time you can pray for God to change your own hearts. I have had the pleasure of meeting my pastor, his family and many other elders in the church. Not that it matters but I have been going to CC (DB is our home but we have visited others) since I was a kid and I still go there now with my husband and our kids. I have always been able to stop Raul in the hallways for prayer, find him walking around after service, conversate with his wife and kids and I have heard him on the pulpit say many times that he is in no way perfect. God always reveals sin in one way or another. Today and tomorrow there is a huge free conference going on at CCGS called “I am” by the Whosoevers (founded by Ryan Ries). If you get a chance, come check it out live in person or live online. It is awesome to witness what the Lord is doing with the next generation. God bless.
To Inhzhand
“No one has a perfect walk regardless of what title they hold but their walk is between them and the Lord. If any wrong has taken place, the Lord will bring it out to the open in His perfect timing. it seems as though many repeat commentators on this site have a lot of animosity in their hearts.”
Your experience with Raul Ries was good to hear about. Myself, I greatly appreciate his teaching, but I haven’t had any dealing with him up close or personal. As for this site and the folks who have taken the time to share their experiences with various CCs and respective pastors, including myself, I think you have fallen short in understanding the heart and mindset of each of us. It is because we did attempt to bring our aughts to the leadership and were turned away when this should not have happened that we reach out to this site to join with others who have also been abused, abandoned, and ignored by those who we trusted to carry church discipline and to facilitate, hopefully reconciliation between the injured party and the person who committed the offense. I believe that is how God does enable the leaven of the church to be exposed.
Unless you have been a victim of such abuse, I don’t really think you have a handle of just how any of us feel. Anger is not necessarily wrong, particularly when it has to do with any cover up or total denial of such abuse. Perhaps, the anger that you are picking up on has more to do with your struggle to take in the truth which we share. Funny, how some think that anger is wrong, especially in the face of injustice, oppression, abuse, betrayal, and exploitation. You say we should let God expose this. My question would to you in what way and method do you supposed He does this, if not through the witnesses of 2 or more and following the biblical process of bringing these things to our church leaders and body of Christ?
Also, please do not deceive yourself for a second by thinking that any have not prayed about any situation that have been set before us. If you reread through all the different “comments” with a heart of compassion, empathy, and understanding, you might also be able to discern that not one who had experienced any type of abuse did not or have not drenched their prayers for everyone in tears. For as we attempted work these things out and enduring much heartache in the process while losing that or who was very precious too us, believe me prayer is at the forefront of it all. Then and now.
Finally, God’s Word is clear to us that when anyone stands by and knowingly does not do what they can to stop the harm being done or is a party in contributing to the harm by participating in any way in covering it up or minimizing it or by discrediting the victim in order to sweep it aside, the that person is as guilty as the offender. Yes, we are all in need of constant prayer because we do sin—–but our sins are not always just between God and ourselves—–not when it causes the type of harm that so many have and are experiencing, particularly if it has to do with those who call themselves pastor/church leaders. God’s Word also tells us that we are accountable one to another, so to remain silent on these matters would not be in keeping with His instructions.
To say that sin is strictly between the sinner and God is not scriptural. And for those that think it is, is it no wonder so much leaven is in the church today?
I came to konw Christ as my Lord and saviour during the jesus movement inthe seventies in a Calvary west covina outrreach. The message was clear and easy to understandi which provoked in me a desire to know more and tell others about christ. Didnt this happen with most of you? I went on staff in January of 1982 in West Covina. It was an incredible day and one I will never forget. I was the youth pastor for four years and started the Calvary Bible School.
In 1986 I was sent to Chile to start a bible school and also plant churches, which we did. Due to my own sin I am now running an english institute in Santiago. I am currently out of the Calvary ministries and currently teaching a bible study as I learned from my Pastor, Raul Ries and Chuck Smith. Chapter by chapter and verse by verse.
I have no current relationship with Raul or Calvary only what I learned as a new believer and as a Pastor.
I know many of you and it hurts me to read so many articles about abuses etc. If there are abuses or misuse of funds that must be presented to the courts and the courts must decide.
It is very easy to comment in a page with a false name, thats why I decided after reading each and every comment to say who I am. I believe if you dont identify who you are, you are simply a coward.
I know Raul, I travelled with him, I worked with him and I am grateful to the Lord how he used him and contunues to use him in preaching the gospel.
If you have concrete evidence and not heresay I suggest that you show this evidence to all. No one is trying to cover up sin and no is trying to accuse falsely of sin.
All I have seen in this page are accusationsa. No evidence!!!!!!! From my point of you this is not biblical.
Hiding behind a web page is not the way to get results.
You have something to say then be a man and address that person face to face.
Lindy, your name did come up in stuff.
I do have “concrete evidence” and have presented it to Chuck Smith and Chuck’s attorney Janet Carter, and Roger Wing etc.
First-person testimony from a 24 year CCV Board Member as well as a pile of other first-person testimonies (bookkeepers, asst. pastors, staff, long time lay-people, family members etc).
Chuck Smith is lying by saying he isn’t responsible, has no authority, has never exercised control etc over other CC’s. Bullspit. I have a pile of specific circumstances that say he has exercised control in the past. Chuck is a liar.
As for Raul Ries, I have several sources who report bad stuff. One is a former CC Pastor and fellow Board Member in Raul Ries’s circle of CC pastors. This guy ran with the Ries Crew and reports that Raul had him and Raul Jr. smuggle cash wearing money belts to South America so Raul could avoid Customs and taxes on the money. The amounts reported are $200,000.
There’s a lot of other stuff as well.
I have reported the instances to an investigator.
Lindy, my name is on everything I’ve done. I’ve sat across the conference table from Chuck Smith and his lawyer (and Dave Rolph) and confronted this stuff mano y mano face to face.
It makes no difference. Chuck is a stubborn, prideful liar who could care less about doing the right thing. It’s all about protecting his false image and legacy and covering his ass-ets.
My name is and has been. At the same time, I am in hiding due to the threats made on my life.
I will continue to speak the truth when given the opportunity. In this site or any other, if nothing else to 1) let others know that they are not alone 2) In the event anyone hears of my death, 3) to gain support and insight from the experience of others, 4) to invoke an active dialog and awareness of church abuse in the CC, 5) to provide a public record, 6) to let all who have been traumatized know it is not them that is “crazy” for this does tend to make one feel this way when abuse is denied, minimized, and then covered up.
I think, no let me say this again, I believe the real “cowards” are those who uses manipulation and the covering of the “cloth” to avoid applying church discipline, accountabiity to the body of Christ, and the “male” gender to “rule” over in order to silence womean and children in speaking the truth regarding abuse. To also use “God’s” annointed to avoid being questioned and enabling the body of Christ to participate in an open dialogue and to say that the body of Christ who attends CCs have little or no recourse, or involvement in the decision making processes because CCs does not have members but is organized and operated by those who on the “board” personally selected by the “Moses” model figure head is a catch all to exert control and authority, yet also provides a vehicle that is also used to deal with the leaven, be in their leadership role or elsewhere.
Not all CCs are this way, but for those who are—-no one should be shamed, bullied, discredited, tyrannized, or terrorized into silence. If you have not experienced this, great. But do not think for a moment it is not or has not happened. But rather search the scriptures and consider what has been shared and support those who have been victimized by the very structure that has enable these things to go on. It is self perpetuating simply because of the principles set up to control and to avoid getting rid of the leaven that is and has caused the entire body great harm. To say we are cowards is only adding to this abuse. To say we are divisive is just another way of silencing victims. To say we are anything than what we are is not the truth and is only perpetuating what we have already been told by those whom victimized us. And this is not of the Lord –Period.
Correction: yet also provides a vehicle that is also used [avoid dealing] with the leaven, be in their leadership role or elsewhere.
If you give further thought and consideration, think about—-this is precisely what happend to Jesus during the illegal trials he endured. He was also accused of bein devisive, blasfemous, rebellious, crazy, disrespectful, and ungodly. He was beaten, scourged, spit upon, alienated, rejected, persecuted, hung out to die, and then left, abandoned, broken, and denied the very essence of His whole person: reconciliation.
Instead those in leadership (not all) flip the table and acted as though they had the offense was done against them instead. They of anyone knew scripture and the people trusted them to be diligent in teaching it and applying it in all things, including their own conduct towards others. Instead, they through their own blndness led the people into committing even greater atrocities that eventually led them all into the very sins they had committed. And justifying it all using the name of God and His annointing hand upon them.
We who have experienced this are as faithful to Christ as ever, if not more so. For we can identify with Him in varying aspect. In this we rejoice, for our sufferings are not in vain when we hold on to the promise of our salvation. Nevertheless, it grieves us greatly for having gone through these things when we have lost that which was unjustly was taken from us.
Linda,
Please read Psalm 107.
May the Lord give you comfort by His Word.
He has redeemed us from the hand of the enemy.
When we cry out to the Lord in our time of trouble, He delivers us.
I will be praying for you.
TO JEREMY AND GRATEFUL,
Thank you for giving me more insight on this matter—–My prayers are with all of you. Their accountability to; THE LORD IS HIGHER FOR BEING SHEPHERDS OF THE CHURCH. God has given HIS word for guidance while we are still here.
The Lord says MY WAYS ARE NOT YOUR WAYS AND MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS-
I see a lot of first names but not too many last names. Its difficult to know who you are talking to without a last name. Again I am out of the Calvary ministries since 1996 and I have nothing to do with Calvary now. Accusations must be backed with proof, I have seen none on this page, that causes me to doubt the validity of the accusations. if there is proof and it is presented I will be the first to acknowledge it, but until then all I see are accusations and no ministry to people by way of this page. I am praying for everyone who reads this page and my prayer is that all will come to the light and that the truth be it what it may, be revealed in a clear way for all to see. God bless each of you and may god direct your paths and decisions.
Lindy, you can find out all about me here:
http://blogs.christianpost.com/voices-in-my-head/chuck-smith-of-calvary-chapel-fame-tells-me-get-a-life-the-voices-are-telling-me-the-other-stow-down-there-8566/
The sources I have that report stuff about Chuck Smith, Raul Ries, Bob Grenier etc don’t wish to be named publicly b/c they fear recrimination. I have given their names and information to authorities.
Chuck Smith has been directly provided with some of the names and testimonies, as has Roger Wing of CCOF.
There is a lot of “proof” on this site, you just have to do some work and go through the many articles and testimonies and listen the live interview with Chuck Smith, etc.
Lindy, in my area they know who I am. Alex knows who I am. I’ve met several who post here in person. I’m known by those who need to know.
My posting here just helps corroborate the fact that the CC issues are systemic and fairly consistent. Alex’s story is backed by all of our stories that show these issues to be the norm in CC’s.
Often people say that there are CC’s that are not like the “bad” CC’s, but I’ve yet to know of one like that personally … and I have reason to know a fair amount of CC’s across the U.S. There still may be, I’ve certainly not be to 2000 of them, nor know people with first hand info in all 2000 CC’s. I just know of enough to know there’s something consistently wrong, same flavor, same issues.
If you want verifiable facts, you can find plenty on here by reading and following up. Those in my area already know what I’m saying is true. It’s public knowledge.
As I have already shared, the evidence was presented and is easily obtained by those who wants to do the research. One day, all will be esposed and I will be able to walk down the street or drive down the road while living in my own home and sleeping in my own bed. Hopefully and with much prayer, all will repent and make right the harm that was done and God will restore the days that the locust have eaten. Hopefully, my husband will make the amends necessary to reconciliate with me.
It is a horrendous thing to have to speak the truth of what has occurred while standing by and watching those whom I love play the fool and wallow in the mire using God’s Word and those in the body to cover up ones sins and violence against his own wife. The wife that God gave to him and the one that he promised to love, honor, and protect.
Know this, I am not the only one this has happened to and if it hadn’t been for others who believed me and in the evidence, I would be dead by now. So, for those I will remain forever greatful towards. But my heart is grieved and full of sorrow for the lack of intervention that could have occurred, had these “others” not fallen prey to their own pride and failure to listen to a person who was being betrayed and abused. Simply because of their own arrogance saying, ” we think we are a good judge of character.”
I cannot but think that these would be so arrogant to believe that they will also be able to discern who the antichrist will be as well. For even though the evidence is right in front of their faces, they too will be mesmerized by the Great Deceiver.
All because of the lack of accountability inherent in the foundation that was derived from the Moses model and separation from the body of Christ. It is operated more like a company than a church that counts every man, woman, and child as a vital part of the body of christ, where when one hurts, we all hurt and when one fails we all fail. Not this mindset that those who bring these things into the light are alienated, ostracized, and like in my case runned out of her own home and left to die in the streets. Then to cover it up by permitting my husband to discredit me while continuing to practice these things in the middle of the congregation.
So, yes please pray for a huge revival within the churches. Pray for those of us that are seeking shelter and the fellowship of others in the Lord. Remember, the catacombs and why they were being used by those who were being persecuted. Remember the Holy Wars and the persecution of the saints who refused to bow down to the Pope and false teachings. Remember the Holocaust. Remember, how Jesus told us that we would be brought into the “place of worship” and be persecuted for His sake. In other words, by the very leadership of the church, because of corruption and false teachings—the true church would be offered up for a sacrifice, but not unto the Lord. But rather by the pride, ego, and self serving agenda twisting and distorting the truth to avoid losing what is not theirs to have in the first place: Control, Power, and Immunity.
Linda,
You are living in the kind of persecution that we are warned of in these end times.
I personally believe we are close, and it is no surprise that we are suffering. It still doesn’t make it easy to endure and understand how those who claim Christ as Savior can throw us to the wolves when they are supposed to protect us and take a stand against evil-they themselves are living it. Having said that, it is a time for us to examine ourselves and let the Lord purge us, and refine us for His coming.
As I was living in my own hell with my situations at my own CC, I realized that God was seperating me, and taking every security away that I had (based on the world’s standards,), so that I would focus on what He was doing with me personally.
So the good that will come with all the suffering, is perfection in HIm.
Thats the only thing that keeps me going.
Talking against a Pastor who clearly is a living testimony and a life of years of effort’s to deny himself . . carry his cross.. and follow Lord Jesus and the numerous upon numerous way’s the Lord has used this brother, and the fruit as spoken o in the Word . . There is nothing to debate . . For what judgement a man desire’s / want’s to put upon or toward another whom belong’s personally to the Lord . . Let this man know, he has his perfect attention unto the Lord himself, and any/all accuser’s against the brethren according to the Word will most assuredly have their personal appointment with the Lord . . .
Thank God Lord Jesus Loves You, and Loves even any weak in the Faith . . or in their walk . . Lord Jesus is the Author and Finisher even, of your own personal attitude’s . .
Press forward and seek His ( the Lord’s..) Righteousness . . and be delivered from deceptiion . . Love the Brethren . . and Truely You will know You hve passed from death unto Life in Jesus Christ . . ! Amen !
LoL Ron, that was cool the way you pulled out your best Christianez. That was hilarious. Were you being serious?
I can hear Bob Grenier voice barking out that partial truth just like you did. Dirty birds of a feather?
Pastor Ron, who knows if Raul is or isn’t saved. That’s for God to judge. I do know that Raul does a lot of stuff behind the scenes that aren’t right, pretty cut and dry stuff. Not that I’m not a sinner, too…but I shouldn’t be a Pastor/Elder if Scripture in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 is truth…and neither should Raul Ries. But, hey, “we teach the Bible simply” at Calvary Chapel…we just don’t follow it or we twist it however we want. That’s what I’ve experienced and witnessed…to this moment.
You all r quick to accuse we r all not perfect but god forgives how many times? Let’s look at eachothers lives and in ur hearts he without sin cast the first stone? Raul has been a great inspiration to me nd a reason Iam saved nd all the negatives don’t out way all the goods he has saved my life nd my soul we will all be judged according to our works so y harbor on what’s happening god is in control is he not? Let’s worry about how many more unsaved souls need saving and do gods work
Ray, it is Scriptural to call out sin and wrongdoing. Raul, IMO, needs to clean things up from what has been reported to me by former staff, Insiders, CC pastors, etc etc.
I’m glad Raul preaches the Gospel. That doesn’t excuse ignoring his Scriptural responsibility in 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, 1 Timothy 5:19-22 etc etc. and preaching the Gospel is not a “get out of jail free” card in earthly terms. There are consequences for breaking the rules (moral, financial, legal etc).
Ray said: “Raul has been a great inspiration to me nd a reason Iam saved nd all the negatives don’t out way all the goods he has saved my life nd my soul”
I understand you want to defend Raul but, be careful about lifting men up on a pedestal Ray. Now I don’t know you or Raul, so he may have literally saved your life somehow. I guarantee you this though, RAUL CAN NOT SAVE YOUR SOUL.
We should not give credit or power to fallen men for something only Jesus Christ the Living Son of God can do. Your soul as well as your pastors has been bought by blood. May the LORD bless you and give you discernment and understanding.
Iam aware that a mortal man can not save my soul I guess. What I should have said is that the way he presents the word it cut me to the bone thus I gave my life to Jesus thus my soul was saved as far as everything else sued were all sinners correct all fall short nd I understand that we as Christians we need to look at the elders nd speak out when we see wrongs the word of god commands it but again it also commands forgiveness sowhat do we do
Without repentance, we do not let them off the hook. We are not supposed to.
We are not to participate in the evil, but rather expose it. Pastors are not untouchable and to use the phrase David used with Saul is taking these things out of context. David was saying that he was not going to kill Saul. But he never gave in to Saul’s tyrrany and ungodly authority. He enabled and permitted them to be exposed.
Jesus did the same things with the pharisees and scribes, directly and indirectly. To do less or to ignore, the Bible tells us that we are as guility as the one committing these things.
We are not to participate in the evil, but rather expose it. Pastors are not untouchable and to use the phrase David used with Saul is taking these things out of context. David was saying that he was not going to kill Saul. But he never gave in to Saul’s tyrrany and ungodly authority.
Today on somebody loves you Raul Ries shared about Peters experience in Acts chapter 2..
As Rual Ries shared he moved the conversation towards a story about a company in the State of Florida that has devolped a computer chip that is powered by bio-electrical system..
Rual Ries began to illiterate the Mark of beast and I wanted to share with everyone concerning the Mark of the Beast..
Not to many people talk about how God lives according to the conditions of Eternal Lifes choice..infact, most people don’t know that.
The Anti-christ is the result of the choice of Eternal Life. The Anti-christ is not the result of mans choice..The Anti-christ is the choice of Eternal life.
The union and favor of eternal life that we live by is the same union and favor that the anti-christ lives by to.
What people do not understand is that no one will see the Mark of the beast nor will those who have received the Mark of the beast will not know they have received it.
The Mark of the beast was “Cuased” to be received through the choice of Eternal Life.
Rual Ries is teaching that the Anti-christ is according to the powers of this world..
The scripture in Daniel 11 shares in prophecy that the beast as God put to work its choice giving to it the heart of mans flesh resides the confidence of those who can believe in the purchace and wage of Gods anointing.
The Anti-christ is not according to the power of this world. The Anti-christ is according to the power by which God lives according to. Eternal Life.
I understand that Calvary lacks in the knowledge of what Eternal Life is and what it does. However the purchace of your words according to yor faith speaks truthfully of your hearts…If your hearts are willing to know then what will be made known will be willing to share with your hearts…But will you be able to hear?
Remeber the Maerk of the beast is cuased by what has cuased the beast. The choice of Eternal Life and its anointing..
The first beast is according to the secound beast in its favor, in both it is joined in its union of blaspheme…
To
The secound image nore the first made the dicision to manifest in the Holy place…The dicision belongsgs to the purchace of the holy place and the choice of Eternal Life.
The place that John went to in spirit is the place where the events of these powers will take place…Not here in our present age..These events will be of the ages of age eternally….This world is the result of the Choice of Eternal Life as God created it according to its choice….the wage of this present age is purchaced by a unending of ages of time as this creation and everything in it was created according to.
No one will see the Anti-christ in this world because the Kingdom that Jesus is from is not according to this world..The kingdom he speaks of is according to Eternal Life. The Anti-christ is according to that kingdom.
No one will see a micro chip in the holy place however it would not be impossible for the spirit to share from the conceptijon of a micro chip..
Lol..
TELL CHUCK THAT NO ONE WILL SEE THE MARK OF BEAST NOR WILL THEY KNOW THEY HAVE RECEIVED IT..THE SCORPIANS, THEY CAN’T SEE WHAT IS AFFLICTING THEM….IT IS NOT ACCORDING TO WHAT WE HAVE DONE. It is according to what Eternal Life is doing…They are not visible to the eye just as the Mark is not visible…we need to take this into serious considerstion according to the need of the body of christ..
Lastly, The millinium will redeem the marks choice…It was not according to our choice, it is according to the choice of Eternal life that the Mark was cuased to be received…
Please believe..
Contrary to popular belief most people believe that those who received the Mark of the Beast suffered because God punished them according to what they have done..correct?
Incorrect teaching. They did not suffer according what they have done, they suffered because of what Eternal Life does..
The Mark of the beast was not according to mans choice..The Mark of the beast is according to the choice of Eternal Life that is cuased in the image of the beast.
God knows what suffering according to Eternal Lifes choice does and all through scripture there are many places where God has grieved according to its workmenship…Arrons sons died not according to their choice nor according to what they did wrong, they didn’t die according to Gods choice or according to Gods wrongs…They died according to the choice of Eternal Life that sees no wrong, Perfections death.
The people that have received the Mark of the beast were being stung by the tails of these giant horse sized scorpians with humans faces…The people could not see what was afflicting them..They suffered by that which is invisible, The scorpians where not trying to hurt anyone, the scorpians where trueing the Mark of the beast because the Mark concerns the choice of Eternal life and its command.
They suffered not according to the mark but according to the purchace of the Mark, Eternal life is the marks purchace…They suffered because of Eternal lifes choice.
God would in no way torment anything lest he be tormented by the same source of measures.
We need to learn what Eternal life is and what it does so we may better understand the relationship towards Eternal Life in Jesus Christ.
Stop putting it to God and start believing in what God knows the trouble is..Eternal Life sees no wrong and is overflowing in all of lifes living demands it commends.
Sincerely, Randy J Berton
Pasadena, Ca
rebolives@Gmail.com
RB, I’m not tracking with you at all. You’re speaking in Greek…with a Chinese accent (meaning I can’t understand your premise, what are you asserting?)
Alex,
I’ve been trying to post a comment but for some reason it won’t post. Please send me an email or somehow let me know how I can rectify this.
Thanks, Linda P
Well I’ll be. Just wanted to say that the CC that my husband attend has posted his picture with the female at a couple church retreat and more recently with the child that he fathered with her. Have sent an open letter to my husband and his pastor regarding our marital status. I have also sent a copy of the Judges refusal to grant my husband a divorce in 2009 because he refused to disclose his financial statement. If he did, it would prove what I have been asserting regarding this affair.
My husband has no biblical groundfs to divorce me. Up to this point he has told others that I am imagining things, but now he is bringing this into the congregation and bearing a false witness against me. He keeps telling me that he is going to sue me for slander, but I have told him that it is not slander if it is true and that he needs to repent and get over her. He’s told me that he had gone before the Lord and confessed his adultery, therefore, he is a righteous godly man now. Now he is permitted to be a student in the School of Ministry with the intent to become a CC Pastor.
I honestly don’t get how his pastor can permit this to go on. He won’t go to court to finish what he has started because he does not want to be held accountable for lying to the courts and violating the Judges orders. Instead, he (I believe) will produce papers that were obtained by fraud to make it look as though he is now married to someone else?
All his pastor would need to do is ask him for his divorce papers and marriage license and match it up to the court paper I have provided. But instead he permits my husband to have his own ministry, attend classes to be a pastor, and permit the two of them to fellowhip with the congregation? Is not also participating the sins my husband commits against me and our marriage. Why, Alex does CC permit this to go on.
I haven’t done anything except ask my husband to stop womanizing, flirting, and then finally carrying on with this “girl.” It reminds me of: Psalms 109:1-6
I am asking all those in the Lord to come together with me to ask our Father in heaven to intervene and turn this around to cause my husband to be expose to enable him to repent and to do what he must in order to reconcile with me. I love him very much and want the best for him. Being out of the will of the Lord and mocking His Word is not gong do anyone any good. It is so destructive, corrupted, and just plain arrogant to think otherwise. So please people, be diligent and pray for us and this CC Pastor. Thanks.
Correction: Is not also participating the sins my husband commits against me and our marriage. Why, Alex does CC permit this to go on.
Should read: Is not CC also, then participating . . . .
Hannah, appreciate your comment:
“Having said that, it is a time for us to examine ourselves and let the Lord purge us, and refine us for His coming.
As I was living in my own hell with my situations at my own CC, I realized that God was seperating me, and taking every security away that I had (based on the world’s standards,), so that I would focus on what He was doing with me personally.
So the good that will come with all the suffering, is perfection in HIm.
Thats the only thing that keeps me going.”
In my wandering to stay safe and in hiding from the threats my husband made against my life, the Lord has sustain me and my understaning of what it means to trust Him has grown tenfold. Persecution in all forms have come my way – even from well meaning people who do not want to see me hurt so tell me to just move on. How can I do that when I am married. Divorce is not an option as he managed to tie it up in court by refusing to diclose his finances. California won’t permit a divorce without this. If I push it and he still refuses, then he goes to jail. If he doesn’t refuse then they find out he’s committed bigamy, he still goes to jail with her, as she knew he was married and he falsify information on their marriage license application. I haven’t any money to hire a good attorney. The one I had ended up talking to him so much that one time he told me he was going fire him, as well as his own. He really does believe he controls everyone, the courts, his pastor, me, the mother of his child, and perhaps even God. But what is worse everyone tries to look at his behaviors in the light normalcy which is impossible to do when you are dealing with a practiced deceiver.
Hannah, you stated: So the good that will come with all the suffering, is perfection in HIm.
Thats the only thing that keeps me going.”
Believe me if I did not have God’s Word in my heart, I would have taken my own life a long time ago as a result of being so terribly traumatized, terrorized, persecuted, and then shunned, isolated, and alienated from those whom could have done something when trying to ask the leaders of CC to do something other than to fall for this ruse he has created in their minds, rather than to check out what I was saying or even sitting down face to face with me without him being present, just as they have done with him time and time again.
God has brought me a long way from the initial shock and devastation. He has used me in the most amazing of ways to reach out to others and to even be instrumental of saving the lives of several of our soldiers in the military. What or where he will take me now, I have no idea. I hope it will not be in the valley for much longer. I do hope he finds favor and grant me a home of my own once again and a place that I can feel safe, with a job practicing my usual profession.
What he is helping me to do is to not to depend on anyone except for Him. The police won’t help me until my husband does me physical harm. The court can’t help me and the church is silent. But God’s Word is clear and it tells me that He loves me and that even if my husband sold me out and threw me under the bus, He has and He will hold me close to Him under His wings until He calls me home. I pray it is soon, for I really don’t like being here on this earth much any more. All of this have taught me more of what our Lord went through as He went to Calvary and as He hung on the Cross for all of us. The love that dwells in me have grown even more so towards my husband and to those who have enabled him to go on like this. At the same time, it leaves me heart broken—-I can only imagine how Jesus felt as He love people so much even while being beaten, scourge, spit upon, and crucified—-just because of the truth He was bearing witnees to of the Father. So yes, Hannah—what other choice do we have except to hang on to Him and don’t let go, trusting our suffering will be reflected the work He has done in each and all of us who refused to be compromised for His name sake. Amen, thanks again.
Hannah, appreciate your comment:
“Having said that, it is a time for us to examine ourselves and let the Lord purge us, and refine us for His coming.
As I was living in my own hell with my situations at my own CC, I realized that God was seperating me, and taking every security away that I had (based on the world’s standards,), so that I would focus on what He was doing with me personally.
So the good that will come with all the suffering, is perfection in HIm.
Thats the only thing that keeps me going.”
In my wandering to stay safe and in hiding from the threats my husband made against my life, the Lord has sustain me and my understaning of what it means to trust in Him has grown tenfolds. Persecution in all forms have come my way – even from well meaning people who do not want to see me hurt so tell me to just move on. How can I do that when I am married. Divorce is not an option as he managed to tie it up in court by refusing to diclose his finances. California won’t permit a divorce without this. If I push it and he still refuses, then he goes to jail. If he doesn’t refuse then they find out he’s committed bigamy, he still goes to jail with her, as she knew he was married and he falsify information on their marriage license application. I haven’t any money to hire a good attorney. The one I had ended up talking to him so much that one time he told me he was going fire him, as well as his own. He really does believe he controls everyone, the courts, his pastor, me, the mother of his child, and perhaps even God. But what is worse everyone tries to look at his behaviors in the light normalcy which is impossible to do when you are dealing with a practiced deceiver.
Hannah, you stated: So the good that will come with all the suffering, is perfection in HIm.
Thats the only thing that keeps me going.”
Believe me if I did not have God’s Word in my heart, I would have taken my own life a long time ago as a result of being so terribly traumatized, terrorized, persecuted, and then shunned, isolated, and alienated from those whom could have done something when trying to ask the leaders of CC to do something other than to fall for this ruse he has created in their minds, rather than to check out what I was saying or even sitting down face to face with me without him being present, just as they have done with him time and time again.
God has brought me a long way from the initial shock and devastation. He has used me in the most amazing of ways to reach out to others and to even be instrumental of saving the lives of several of our soldiers in the military. What or where he will take me now, I have no idea. I hope it will not be in the valley for much longer. I do hope he finds favor and grant me a home of my own once again and a place that I can feel safe, with a job practicing my usual profession.
What he is helping me to do is to not to depend on anyone except for Him. The police won’t help me until my husband does me physical harm. The court can’t help me and the church is silent. But God’s Word is clear and it tells me that He loves me and that even if my husband sold me out and threw me under the bus, He has and He will hold me close to Him under His wings until He calls me home. I pray it is soon, for I really don’t like being here on this earth much any more. All of this have taught me more of what our Lord went through as He went to Calvary and as He hung on the Cross for all of us. The love that dwells in me have grown even more so towards my husband and to those who have enabled him to go on like this. At the same time, it leaves me heart broken—-I can only imagine how Jesus felt as He love people so much even while being beaten, scourge, spit upon, and crucified—-just because of the truth He was bearing witnees to of the Father. So yes, Hannah—what other choice do we have except to hang on to Him and don’t let go, trusting our suffering will be reflected the work He has done in each and all of us who refused to be compromised for His name sake. Amen, thanks again.
Testing to see if this comment goes through as it states it is a duplicate already sent.
Linda,
Is this happening at CCGS?
praying for you.
Allex, accusations are not facts. Even if you are 1000% correct, you come off as hateful and arrogant.Matthew 5:43-44 Repent, alex, repent, you young fool…..
DJ:
1. I’m not that young, but thanks for the compliment. I still feel young and look young. I try to eat decent and train in MMA, do a lot of PT etc.
2. If I’m 1000% correct, then some dudes might end up going to jail..and if they don’t go to jail they should certainly not do the stuff documented here in testimonies I’ve received from former insiders/whistle blowers.
3. “hateful and arrogant”….so if I said it nicer, then you’re on board?
4. Repent of what, specifically? Being blunt about the allegations? Calling pastors to repentance who the Scripture says are held to a “stricter judgment” and a high standard according to 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 etc?
Lnda said:
“My husband has no biblical groundfs to divorce me. Up to this point he has told others that I am imagining things, but now he is bringing this into the congregation and bearing a false witness against me. He keeps telling me that he is going to sue me for slander, but I have told him that it is not slander if it is true and that he needs to repent and get over her. He’s told me that he had gone before the Lord and confessed his adultery, therefore, he is a righteous godly man now. Now he is permitted to be a student in the School of Ministry with the intent to become a CC Pastor. ”
Your husband is in a constant state of adultery as long as he keeps seeing that woman, he has not repented because if he had he would have broken things off with her and tried to reconcile with you. I am going thru something similar right now, me and my ex wife were divorced without biblical grounds and now I am seeking to reconcile with her. The bible is pretty clear that divorcees are not eligible for remarriage unless there is adultery involved otherwise they need to reconcile with their ex.
Hi:
I stumbled onto this site and would like to address the original topic.
“If you attended Calvary Chapel Golden Springs and were under the “authority” and leadership of Pastor Raul Ries and you want to share your personal story, good, bad or indifferent…here’s your chance.
What was your experience with Pastor Raul Ries? Did he model the Servant Leader that Jesus Christ talks about? Or, something else…
If you could say something to Raul Ries, what would it be? What should he change about how he pastors and acts as an employer, etc?”
My story
It was a rainy Wednesday night in 1986. I was in bad shape, suicidal, no purpose to live.
I had just buried my little girl a few months before that night and I wanted to die.
I accepted Christ in 1971 and was a christian but the pain and depth of my loss was overwhelming. I felt hopeless and at the end of my rope.
As I drove home from work, down Puente ave I saw the sign “Calvary Chapel” and the lights were on and the parking lot was buzzing. Somehow I found a parking spot and went inside. I was dripping wet and no one could see I was crying. It was crowded and I sat in the foyer. When Raul gave the alter call or re dedication call my hand shot up and I stood there and just cried.
I continued to go there for a few months. The one year anniversary of my daughters death was coming up. My husband who did not go to church with me (because he was Catholic)
asked me if I was going to go to church on Easter Sunday. I told him probably not because it was the anniversary and I didn’t want to get up set and disrupt the service.
Christine passed away at 11:45am. He said I’ll go with you and if you get upset I’ll bring you home. I said OK.
It was Easter Sunday. They had three live men on crosses on the alter. Raul started the alter call and I was looking at my watch. 11:45am. My mind was in a fog, my husband was holding my hand. At that moment he looks at me and says”I want to be with you and Chris when I die and went up to the alter and accepted Christ as his savior.
I tell you the truth, I don’t know if I was crying for my husbands decision or for my daughter but our lives changed that day.
I said all this, to say God uses everything and everyone. God used Raul to save my life. I know I was going to kill myself. I just hadn’t decided how to do it yet.
My husband and I grew in the Lord and I served on the Women’s board with Sharon.
Since then my life has been a challenge in many areas. I have failed, I have succeeded.
I thank the Lord Jesus that my salvation is not dependent on me and my goodness because I deserve death on my own failures and sin. It is by His grace I’m saved. not by works of righteousness I have done.
Raul will have to answer for himself.
Sharon, thank you for being a Godly women. It gives me something to shoot for.
To Raul and Sharon I say thank you, you live what you preach.
You asked if I had anything to say, good or bad about Raul and Sharon Ries or Calvary Chapel.
I’ll get around to that as soon as I drop these stones so I can get the beam out of my eye.
Maybe you should do the same friend?
DAYSTAR, that is a powerful testimony. I am happy for you and your family and sorry for your loss, but happy for your gain and that you’ll be reunited in the next existence.
I agree that God uses sinners and that Raul does preach the Gospel message…but also that as you stated, “Raul will have to answer for himself”.
Linda “-I can only imagine how Jesus felt as He love people so much even while being beaten, scourge, spit upon, and crucified—-just because of the truth He was bearing witnees to of the Father.”
It is hard to keep up with the comments and I just found your 7/7 one.
I think much of what you have and are going through is what I go through.
It seems that more and more it is not the heathens that are committing the sins against us but those who profess Christ. Reading the scriptures on the end times just confirms that we should not be surprised at what is going on around us. I understand how you feel with wanting to go home…but Paul reminds us to finish the race and persevere. Sometimes it takes all the strength that we have. God promises to mold us during these times…we become clay in the Potters hands, and we need to be broken to be made a new vessel of honor. Sometimes it hurts so much…
Daystar- God used this church at a desperate time in your life and it is understandable how grateful you are for that church/Pastor. I don’t think anyone would dispute that. God used a Jehovahs witness to bring an old friend of mine to the Lord. It was the first time she ever read any passages in the Bible. Some would dispute that too. I have a friend who found God (and later Jesus) in OA. So anything is possible with God.
Daystar,
Since you were on the Women’s Board with Sharon, then you are personally aware that Sharon frequently transferred funds from the bookstore and Missions so as to support the many Women’s Ministry events.
Just a paper transfer? Big deal?
Yes, it is a great big deal when $40,000.00 is transferred to the Women’s Ministry from funds that were designated for other uses.
I too, am thankful for what God has done, and is doing in my life as a result of CCGS, Raul & Sharon Ries.
My contribution to this site is for reform, accountability, and personal responsibility to be shown by both parties, in addition to the board of CCGS.
Since you were on the board, then are you okay with the character assassination of our friends that moved to Baldwin Park to start a new church? They are even forbidden to use the name CC due to Raul & Sharon. Therefore, they are using another name.
That is sad. Many lives have been ministered to by CCGS and Raul & Sharon Ries. However, as time goes by, the trail of blood is widening. It ought not to be this way.
Respectfully,
PJay
Excellent responses at 218 & 221, Alex.
I agree with you, Pjay, that none of us is all good or all bad. It’s always a mix. But the more that we have no accountability, the more the bad can flourish just out of sight, just under the surface, with a nice outward veneer.
A person doesn’t rot all at once … it happens slowly over time, incrementally. Checks and balances are to keep this self-destructive bent at bay.
We don’t live this Christian walk with things locked down for good. This walk is active, alive, and we are either moving towards evil or moving towards good. It’s something that has to be checked daily by all of us. Raul and Sharon are not immune to this, no one is. So one may be in a good place one day and sliding out of that place the next.
Grateful,
Good word, and a true commentary on our walk.
Love to chat with you more.
PJay
Pjay,
grateful012@yahoo.com
Grateful,
u’ve got mail.
Pjay:
I was not personally aware of any financial dealings with CCGS. I was head of the sound dept for the women’s studies,retreats and ladies functions.
I set up the mics and recorded the studies then put everything away. I was the first one to arrive, and the last one to leave. I had no knowledge of money transfers or any thing to do with money or the book store. I helped plan retreats and did art work and decorations.
I stepped down from the women’s board because of my own personal life situation and sin in my life.
I did not want to cause anyone to stumble or to bring any shame to Jesus Christ or Calvary chapel.
I did the hard thing, that of giving up what I loved to do. Doing sound and Being a servant.
I serve Christ in other ways now, more of a hands on ministering,
Up close and personal with the elderly. I love them as unto the Lord.
Many have come to know Christ on their death bed.
I give all the praise and glory to Jesus Christ because I, in this flesh can’t love anyone like he does. Christ loves them through me.
I’ll end with this.
We are all responsible for our own salvation. No one can pluck us out of Gods hand but us. We will all stand before Christ on judgement day. I will be ready because of Christ.
God bless you.
DAYSTAR, you did the right thing by stepping down. Unfortunately, Raul and several other CC Pastors whose situations I’m privy to should have followed your example.
The Qualifications of Pastors/Elders in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 either mean something, or they don’t. Right now, according to Calvary Chapel’s broad example in this area…the Qualifications and those verses don’t mean a thing.
I use to attend Rauls church on Sunset in West Covina years ago. I remember taking in alot of knowledge about Jehovah’s word. I recently moved back to Cali & drove to the Calvery Chapel on Goldensprings I was shocked to see how commercial Raul is now, being fair though I have not yet sat at any services there in a few years.
I plan to soon to see if his messaged has changed from the humble begining.
Very interesting info !Perfect just what I was looking for! “I live in company with a body, a silent companion, exacting and eternal.” by Eugene Delacroix.
Pjay,
No, at another Calvary Chapel in Orange County, but I have sent the evidence to Raul in the event something should happen to me.
I went to Calvary Chapel yrs ago Heard Raul Reiz then and over many yrs heard him on the radio. He uses the God warned against (MANY WOULD SAY HERE IS CHRIST AND DECEIVE THE MANY) Calvary Chapel believes there the only truth and almost every time a sermon is given especially by Raul Reiz( HELL) is mentioned in order to keep his flock in line and not stray off to any other Preaching of Gods word. Calvary Chapel wants people say everything in the bible must be taken Literally, unless Calvary Chapel says other wise. SUICIDE is a topic Calvary Chapel does not like because they cannot give a straight answer to its relation to salvation. Homosexuality is another, Calvary Chapel will only say Do not do the sin and you do not have to worry about HELL. GOD IS LOVE AND DIED FOR ALL SIN. GOD WORKS WITH ALL PEOPLE AT APPOINTED TIMES IN THIS LIFE AND THE NEXT. If any of Calvary Chapel followers want to believe Christ did not say IT FINISHED on the cross Believe like Calvary and continue fussing and fighting For people who know who God is LOVE is important Sin is like a weed we fight but salvation was given as a gift that being realized causes a renewing of the mind at gods terms and time. John 3:16 says GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD HE GAVE HIS SON TO IT. To the surprise of Christians THE WHOLE WORLD IS THE CHURCH. NOT WHAT CHRISTIANITY OKS.
I came on the computer to look for raul ruiz,s website, all see is a bunch of people
who want everyone to see and know their opinion. its sad. God is all knowing and seeng
knows exactly what he will do, believe me. it does not take mans personal and or
negative opinion for God to determine what he will do, he already knows. its funny people
who want to condimn someone in a church, tend to READ AND QUOTE the scriptures
they want to quote, when before, they never quoted the scriptures for miracle of salvation
If you want to quote bible scriptures, read about King Saul, what did God say about him.
also Saul on the damascus road, What did God say to him. God can put a criminal
on your pulpit, and he will get the same treatment, your pastor is getting. I do not believe blasting someone on public website is legal. whether that person did wrong or not.
he, like you or anyone else has a right to privacy, what would you or any of you who
posted RUMORS, which may or may not be true, do if THE GOOD LORD POSTED
YOUR LIFE on the web site, I think personally you would be embarrassed, any human
would be, including me, if you cannot be embarrassed, then there is something wrong.
then maybe that is why you are posting such RUMORS for the world to see, and you
are happy about it. There is a saying, OUR BURDENS BELONG TO GOD. why are
you carrying around someone elses burden, when it is non of your business. for your info
there are problems in all churches in the WORLD, NOT JUST CALVARY CHAPEL. why?
because of mens sin. If there is a problem, GOD IS TAKING CARE OF THE PROBLEM
BETTER THAN YOU ARE. right this minute. beware what we say about GODS anointed. talk about your own sins, if you want to discuss sins, not other people.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. not you and I. or have we ever heard of the words, PRAY FOR OTHERS. only God can condimn, Just maybe God is testing
your faith, I know he test my faith daily, God is not going to judge us based on what
someone does to US, it is what WE DO TO OTHERS. I am not an intelligent bible
interpreter, but I know what I have been taught by JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF thru a
calvary chapel pastor. YOU OR I cannot blame a church for not growing, remember
JESUS CHRIST the holy spirit is every where on this planet, so he is within a whisper
away from you. its too easy for a grown person to blame an anointed pastor, he is just
a mouth piece for God. of course if we are negative at home ,work or play, we will
be negative even in church. I like my pastor, his line is, Dont believe everythng I have to
say, READ IT FOR YOUR SELF. He is showing me he is mere human, just as I am
and all the bloggers in this silly website, and all pastors god has sent. leave the man
alone, let God deal with him. pray for him. delete this website, the man has a right
to privacy according THE laws of our country.
Evelyn,
I would heartedly recommend that you read through this site and look up the scriptures that has been referenced. I would also strongly encourage you as a sister in the Lord to examine the loyalty that you have towards a particular person vs. the things of the Lord.
Jesus has told us that we who are in Him are all annointed to preach the Word and to walk in obedience to it. We are also called to judged all things in the body of Christ. Being so, there is not to be a respector of any person. The head is as important as any other part of the body of Christ. We are to hold one another accountable, including those in leadership roles. Yet at the same time we are to exhort and admonish one another and for those practicing such things as sexual immorality and refuses to repent, we are not to even eat with such a one.
So, I understand you hold a strong sense of loyaty towards your pastor, however, what about your loyalty to the Cross and the truth, for His Word tells us we are to not to take part in evil, be it by turning a blind eye or ear, or to directly participate in such things. But rather we are to expose them. You make a huge error when you attempt to close your mind to the more negative things that have, is, and continue to go on in the CC leadership that does not protect those who are in Christ. What more, as an attendee, you have no voice, particularly if you are a woman.
So PLEASE, read through the comments and check yourself for being defensive towards things you simply have chosen to ignore or to shut off. We are as Christian called to speak the truth and to walk in love and obedience to His Word. Not to hold any up on a pedestal where they are untouchable or to have to fear that if one who abuses another that person would be enabled to hide behind the cloth or the CCGGP.
Linda Pappas
Evelyn,
I would heartedly recommend that you read through this site and look up the scriptures that has been referenced. I would also strongly encourage you as a sister in the Lord to examine the loyalty that you have towards a particular person vs. the things of the Lord.
Jesus has told us that we who are in Him are all annointed to preach the Word and to walk in obedience to it. We are also called to judged all things in the body of Christ. Being so, there is not to be a respector of any person. The head is as important as any other part of the body of Christ. We are to hold one another accountable, including those in leadership roles. Yet at the same time we are to exhort and admonish one another and for those practicing such things as sexual immorality and refuses to repent, we are not to even eat with such a one.
So, I understand you hold a strong sense of loyaty towards your pastor, however, what about your loyalty to the Cross and the truth, for His Word tells us we are to not to take part in evil, be it by turning a blind eye or ear, or to directly participate in such things. But rather we are to expose them. You make a huge error when you attempt to close your mind to the more negative things that have, is, and continue to go on in the CC leadership that does not protect those who are in Christ. What more, as an attendee, you have no voice, particularly if you are a woman. Simply because CC has no membership for its attendees.
So PLEASE, read through the comments and check yourself for being defensive towards things you simply have chosen to ignore or to shut off. We are as Christian called to speak the truth and to walk in love and obedience to His Word. Not to hold any up on a pedestal where they are untouchable or to have to fear that if one who abuses another that person would be enabled to hide behind the cloth or the CCGGP.
Linda Pappas
All this is nonsense. Ries and a bunch of other CC pastors are so unqualified. Who cares he has a mega church. Ted Haggard & Eddie Long, Paula Whte etc….they all have massive followings but what does that really mean? C’mon guys.
This just breaks my heart. I know of so many pastors who have fallen from grace when the power and pride got to them. May God have mercy on them for He is very clear about how awful it will be for those who have been led astray and deceived by them.
We have never met Mr. Ries, nor have we attended CCGS. However, we have had similar experiences with other CC pastors and pastors from other denominations or groups. It is heartbreaking to see so many hurt.
My heart goes out to each one of you who has spoken up. Thank you for taking a very unpopular position to do what the Lord has required of you. I know it wasn’t easy, for not one of us wants to speak up when we see things that are amiss. We stick it out and make excuses until we just can’t do it any longer. It is so hard to leave a church body and a pastor for whom you have had such a great love. We pour ourselves into ministry, convinced we can make a difference. Finally, it is over and all we want to do is save others from the heartbreak. I don’t know what other word to use, because it hurts so much.
Anyway, my prayers are with you. God bless in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Gayle, your post is salve on wounds, for sure.
Gayle, it is like a cool drink in the midst of the crucible and a desert that is longing to be reconciled to that which brings healing and reconciliation.
Truely, as Grateful expressed: “salve on the wounds.”
We have not left our faith, we have only left those who would persecute us and cause us further harm by turning a blind eye and a deaf ear. Our love for the body of Christ remains stedfast in all things. And that is why we seek to warn and ask for accountabiity and repentance, for the sake of all and for the Glory of God.
Well, I don’t know where to start. Don’t even know what prompted this search and how I ended up on this site. I guess it has started with my search for the TRUTH. Truth in ALL things. Do I believe pre-trib, mid-trib, post….what should I believe? I’m no scholar. I don’t know the original languages, history, authors, etc. Who should I believe those who say McDonald made this up or Missler teachings? That’s just one topic, it’s all enough to make someone’s head explode.
There are sincere christian’s with different views on so many topics. I read the Word for myself and pray for God’s revelation to me but I continue to listen to so much radio and DVD’s that I hear contradictory teaching from different sources. I do internet searches like this and come up with so many sides and arguments as to interpreting certain scripture. It’s all too much.
Which is how I eventually ended up on this site.
I searched Kestler and Smith because a few months back, I read the article about the legal matter and I was quite shocked. As I was listening to Every Man An Answer today, I realized that this was the Mike Kestler I had read about. Which lead me here.
It’s very disheartening to hear all this about CC as I had come to faith through CC and Raul Ries when he was in West Covina in 86/87, He is the one who really inspired my walk and through CC teachings of the bible it was the first time I came to understand the bible and teachings.
I moved away and have gone to other churches that just didn’t feed me and have the same zeal that CC seemed to have.
However, all of that being said, it doesn’t surprise me to hear all the evil that is in the world, is occurring inside the church. The bible says that it will happen in the last days. And with as big as CC has grown, it seems to breed power and corruption. This is the way the devil breaks us down. He will feed our flesh. So even though I’m shocked by all the allegations of the CC pastors, I’m not totally suprised.
I think it should be exposed as quoted by scripture so that it can be dealt with. To some, I can see how we can ignore it, because how do we know who to believe? Allegations could be to destroy (by the devil) or build up (by the Lord). How do us from the outside know what the truth is?
It’s all so sad for those believers who are young and new that they may become discouraged as they have put their trust in the pastor or the church. I personally am learning almost everything I read has to be scrutinized through the lens of the LORD because there is so much garbage out there it is hard to discern truth from lies, or truth from misunderstanding.
Only thing I can say is keep your eyes on HIM and the path will be clear.
Sounds like SOME in CC have been mislead, corrupted, and abused, but I don’t think that spoils the whole bunch but it does give it a bad smell. I hope the rotten apples are dealt with so that the bunch won’t go bad.
Eyes on Him
Thank you for making your presence known to us. I agree with all that you shared. I have one additional suggestion to make to you and others.
We do not deny that there is good teaching that goes on in CC.
We also have learned God’s Word as a result of our own attendance at CC.
God’s Word does not change and His Holy Spirit will teach us regardless of the how CC may be structured and what abuses may be, being committed against the body of Christ, individually or corporately. However:
Being a part of the body is not just about reading, understanding, and giving out the gospel message that you have and are learning. but rather, and please put a HUGE emphasis on “rather”, to do the Word as well.
When we know or hear of the types of things that you say :
“Sounds like SOME in CC have been mislead, corrupted, and abused, but I don’t think that spoils the whole bunch but it does give it a bad smell. I hope the rotten apples are dealt with so that the bunch won’t go bad.”
Then, I must say to you, as well as others who have come and gone from this site, what will you do to help stop this? Because when one in the body is hurting, then it does hurt the entire body of Christ. Scripture is clear on this. We, incuding yourself are to stand up and make sure that it is not happening in your church. The things we have brought out, they are happening in all CC. CC is founded upon the Moses Model, What more there is no accountability within the leadership to those who attend, nor is their adequate recourse or an established structure for church discipline with a ministry of reconcilation that sufficiently addresses and provide adequate intervention for those who are abused, molested, betrayed, or practicing such behaviors that these types of sins are being committed against not just the immediate person (s), but also towards you as well. Particularly, if you are a woman or child. Not to say it does not happen to men, as they do. That’s not the point. The point is, it is happening and yes, you are correct, for those that it does happen to and for those who hear of these things, this will posed a huge challenge to their faith.
But we ought not to then say to ourselves that in order to protect myself or others from faith being tested, challenged, or protected, we should behave as though these things are not present in the body that we come together to learn and to socialisze. But rather, we ought to put feet to our faith and do what Paul has told to do. That is to not participte in this by either enabling or turning a deaf ear or a bllind eye, saying to ourselves, “that we will just focus on learning God’s Word and not to get entangled, for then we are as guility of the sin that we would like to ignore. We are also essentially saying, “God bless, be well.” Then moving on leaving them in the same state that they were found to be in by you.
So, to each who have visited this site: What will you do to address these things? How much do you know about the operations of the CC that you attend.
I would invite each of you to go through this entire site and write down notes for you to search out to see if what we have shared be true of the Moses Model. I would invite you to find out how your offerings are being spent. I would find out about how much training your pastor have has on abuse. I would strongly encourage you to give him a copy of Pastor Jeff’s letter to Pastor. I would also encourage you to buy a copy of Lundy Bancroft’s book, then ask the church to provide training and a copy of this book for each person in leadership role and their respective staffpersons.
That would be a way of not just growing in the Word but actually becoming a part of the body of Christ, by paying attention to the harder things that have, that does, and that is taking place right before you very eyes and as Paul as told us, ought not to be. Then tells us what we must do to stop it, individually and as a group.
Not to just go to church just to feel good and then go on your way, turning to your neighbor and the pastor, saying “God bless,”
Are you willing to call and write the CC Association in California and request that Alex and other cases of abuse and betrayals be investigated by groups made of the their Senior Pastors and attendees, including those trained in such matters? Are you willing to pass a petition around in your CC to be integrated with other petitions to ask the CC Association to form such a committee, as suggested? If so, please contact this site.
Just when I was thinking I should find a church to be among good and honest people, I find this. Now, I wonder if the rapture has already happened and we didn’t even notice. This is exactly what I would expect for the left-behind croud; endless arguments over who is more and less rightious.
When the church was just getting started, the Apostle Paul told the elders in Ephesus that not only would people come in from the outside to try and damage the sheep, but some would rise up from within the church to cause damage.
For some reason God built into the design of the church that we would have to deal with such things. It’s not that He told us to just live with it; rather He told us to deal with it. So we are supposed to rise up to the challenge, not shrink from it. Somehow the God of the universe decided this is good for us.
When the church was just getting started, the Apostle Paul told the elders in Ephesus that not only would people come in from the outside to try and damage the sheep, but some would rise up from within the church to cause damage.
For some reason God built into the design of the church that we would have to deal with such things. It’s not that He told us to just live with it; rather He told us to deal with it. So we are supposed to rise up to the challenge, not shrink from it. Somehow the God of the universe decided this is good for us.
One bad apple doesn’t spoil the whole bunch…….
Only if you toss the bad apple, so that it can’t infect the others.
I have listened to this Pastors teaching for many years. From this I have learned sooo much about the Bible and God. I am sooo thankful for Godly men & women who are not afraid to take a stand even when its against popular belief, I respect Pastor Raul and thank God daily for him.
I have been very blessed by listening to Raul on the radio for years and attending his church. May God continue to bless Raul and and use him to save thousands upon thousands more.
On Oct-10-12 on my way to work, I heard the brother on the radio say something to the effect that, if any one back slides into sin, whether it be, alcohol,sex..(sin is sin) that person will end up in hell. I was flabbergasted. immediately he said, I know what you are thinking, once saved always saved. but I say, he continued, in John 15:6 “he who does not abide in Jesus”.. that those will end up in hell. I thought of Peter, he denied the Lord 3 times..n even cursed on the 3rd time, how many have denied him in scripture, through the Bible in disobedience. Yet, the Lord pursues us. he went after Peter, and restored him. You are preaching, loosing our salvation. The Lord said, “It is finished”..nothing we can add or take. By our merits, we are doomed. Man I thought you were ok..untill i heard this this morning. i changed the station right away.
I was involved in a door to door ministry that presented the Gospel in and around the area of Rauls Church. The most insecure Christians I encountered where those that came out of his CC, it would break my heart to hear that they had no hope.
Romans 3:25 NKJV “whom God set forth as propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His rigteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins “that were previously committed.” 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who “has faith in Jesus.”
Peter denied Jesus 3 times before receiving the Holy Spirit. All the disciples deserted Jesus. None had the power of the Holy Spirit because Jesus had not died yet. None were born again, until Jesus shed His blood and resurrected from the dead, then breathed on them just before He ascended into Heaven.
Jesus, while on the cross stated: “It is finished.”
Meaning there is no need for further payment needed for any who walks in faith and obedience to Him as their Lord and Savior. And if they sin, after having the sins of thier past forgiven, but confess and repent, He is faithful and justly able to forgive them, but if they then continue to live in the flesh then what does the Scripture say:
Please, consider this, that although God is faithful by His Holy Spirit to convict us of our sins, but He will not go against your free will to continue to sin. Here are just a few verses to consider.
NKJV I Timothy 4:1-2
Now the Spirt expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having therir own consceince seared with a hot iron.
2 Peter 2:15 NKJV
They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor who loved the wages of unrighteousness.
2 Peter 2:1 NKJV
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will “secretly” bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who “bought” them.
2 Peter 2
I John 3:10
I John 3:17
1John 3:6-8
Jude 1:4-24
James 4:4
James 2:14-26
2 Tim 4:1-4
2 Tim 3:1-7
Gal 5:18-21
Gal 6:7-8
I Cor 10:21
I Cor 6:9-10
I Cor 5:5-8
I Cor 5:11
I John 3:1-8
Jesus paid the price for our sins, but unless we are born again and abide in Christ in the Spirit, we will sow to the flesh and we will lead a lifestyle of sin, thus were we ever saved in the first place. May be, for Scripture tells us in the latter days, many will fall away from the faith. I believe we in the latter days for I have seen so many claiming Christ as their Savior, but not their Lord and their lives exemplifies this as well.
Listening to Raul Ries daily along with many other pastors, Raul is the only one that with 1 sentence can make me feel bad about myself. As a newer Christian he just said last week that social drinkers are not christian. so I am not a christian even though I Love and believe in Jesus with all my heart. Thanks Raul
Raul, so someone who might drink sociably is not a christian. OK. What about someone who condones and cover up child abuse? What if that person moves pedophiles quietly to a new church giving the pervert access to fresh victims destroying innocent lives?
Would that person be a christian?
Lori, @ 255
Please tell which day Raul stated this. I would like to hear the entire statement and the context that it was stated.
I am interested as I am an addictologist. The term “social drinking” is often used by those who before finding out that they had developed a dependency or was abusing alcohol. My guess is that Raul was saying that alcohol does effect the brain with just one drink. It is mood altering and it does change reality, therefore, even the smallest decisions can be made through the lens of alcohol. What more, it will impact every relationship one has although to the person who drinks, it seems as though it is not.
As for being Christian or not, I would guess what he means is that the consequences of drinking does lead to a skewed relationship with others and the Lord. That’s my guess and that is why I really would like to know the date he made this statement.
The Bible instructs us not to be DRUNK.
Jesus changed water into wine, and even made it better (and stronger) than the first batch!
If he was against social drinking, I doubt he would have made this his first miracle.
He even shared several glasses of wine with his disciples at the Passover Seder/ Last Supper.
Timothy was advised to have some wine for his stomach.
That’s what comes off the top of my head.
Theres a lot of scripture about drunkenness, but don’t do as I did and listen to your Pastor lay a guilt trip on you for having an occasional glass of wine. If it causes someone to stumble thats another story. My Pastor said that he did not want to cause anyone to stumble so he did not drink when he was out. He never told anyone else NOT to do this. It can become legalistic.
Another thought regarding what context Raul Ries was making this statement regarding the usage of alcohol could have to do with stumbling another.
1 Corinthians 8:13
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.
I Cor 8:13:9-13
I Cor 8: 9-11 Trying to figure out how to put in to get the all the verses. duh–lol
I Cor 8:9-11
Linda,
I guess that would also mean not to eat a bacon cheeseburger if anyone Kosher eats with you!
Hannah,
Good point. However, the alcohol we drink today is not the same that they did then. It is far more damaging to the brain than one can imagine. I see nothing wrong with an occasional glass of wine.
That’s why it’s important to know what context Raul made this statement, don’t you think?
I agree that it’s important to always know the context.
People say the same as you do about the wine not being as strong then.
When I was in France in the 70′s a pitcher of wine was cheaper than bottled water, and it was on every table at the bistro’s…and it is amazing how even though the wine was “young”, people drank far more than we would, so maybe it balanced out the amount of alcohol we ingest in one glass.
Some peopel can stop at 3 ounces (the “healthy” amount), and others have to drink the whole bottle.
I think common sense goes a long way on this issue.
Hannah,
You’re funny.
That’s a really a great observation, Hannah.
In light of what Scripture states about stumbling another, however, we then need to abstain for the sake of the gospel out of love towards that person that is either weak in the faith or in the case of not offending another.
Yes….
I will tell you a funny story.
Years back, I had a big party at my house and had Christian friends from church and also non-believers who were business assoicates.
I made a fairly large bowl of sangria (lots of fruit juice and some wine) thinking the Christians wouldn’t drink it (I was not drinking at that time and didnt drink any wine for almost 8 years).
Well, the Christians came to the party first and drank all the sangria, so when the non-believers came, I had none left!
I could have used Jesus that day!!
Usually I never served any alcohol because of the stumbling issue.
But I did not want to take away from the others what they enjoy…
Thankfully we had some bottles of wine around and opened them for the others!
Carrying the “stumbling” issue a little further, we can also say that we have to stay away smoking cigarettes around someone who has quit and is still tempted, stay away from eating dessert at a mean with someone frowho is diabetic, stay away from eating meat when eating with a vegetarian who can’t kill animals for food, stay away from carbs when eating with a carbohydrate addict, stay away from eating pizza with someone who is lactose intolerant and has Celiac Disease, and not mix meat and milk at the same meal when eating with someone who is Kosher.
I thinka t some point people need to take responsibility for their temptations, without blaming their stumbling on someone else.
I know I blamed my husband for years for my chocolate addiction!
Who can I blame for all my typo’s??
In my home, drinking and drugs are not encouraged or enabled. I have seen too much destructive including traffic deaths and domestic violence and so, as much depends upon me, I chose to abstain from it.
When entertaining, for those who drink and do not have a problem, this is not an issue for them, but for those who do have a problem, they usually don’t show up. Good Red flag for a person to guage if thier brain is or has become hijacked by alcohol. Because, it no longer is about socializing, but rather an opportunity to drink instead.
As for eating or not eating something, if it would offend than I neither serve or order it when keeping company with someone that may find it offensive due to their faith or cultural beliefs. It is far more important to me that I be able to find common ground with them as I am always looking for a door open to speak with them regarding Christ.
Would I drink with someone who drinks in order to do this. No, I would not because the conversation would be colored or washed with that which is being filtered through a mind that is being altered. And beside, when one drinks, it does funny things to the memory.
I’ve attended CCGS on and off for more than a decade.
I can’t say much about Raul Ries, except to take his messages with a grain of salt. I remember he once said something to the affect, “dogs don’t go to heaven” and the little girls next to me looked like they would burst into tears. *rolls eyes*
He also had an annoying machissimo about him, all his stupid stories about when he was in Nam, or his fighting days, or when people would challenge him, and he knew he could kick their arse but he withheld himself. *rolls eyes* He’s annoying as *bleep*.
But I’d go to CCGS as the back-up church when I couldn’t go to CC Fullerton or Costa Mesa. He’s not for everyone, but I was attending an Anger Management class with my now ex-boyfriend, and the speaker, who was a cop, couldn’t stop raving about Ries. My conclusion is those suffering from anger issues or machissimo, or are in a violent career (like police and military) can deeply relate to him and are not annoyed as me. It’s no coincidence Bob Greiner picked him for his advisory board. God works in mysterious ways.
I’ve never heard anything about him abusing his position, I know that he doesn’t make any money from his martial arts class he teaches at the church. I would think a lot of punks love to challenge his arrogant bravado, but I’ve never heard of an incidence where he got in a fight.
My advice would be: he’s a man of God, if you don’t like him, don’t go to his church. I think God is doing a work there. And he does preach from the Bible and CCGS does have a Bible school.
One last comment: the people that serve at CCGS are the rudest people I have EVER encountered at any church. I was laughing hysterically reading the Yelp reviews about CCGS because they’re all true. I don’t know how Ries can get volunteer to be kinder and friendlier, but it’s a turn-off, especially to new visitors. And if I may be so bold, they aren’t overly friendly to Asian people, but that’s just an opinion.
I forgot to add a few more things I remember about Raul Ries, don’t worry they are good!
1. He once said that he doesn’t believe that Pastors deserve 401k packages, retirement packages, or healthcare. He said he doesn’t believe Pastors retire, but they keep preaching till their last breath (something to that effect). He felt his health was something he left in the Lord’s hands and he lived by faith.
If someone knows I’m completely wrong, please correct me. I’ve attended CCGS for a long time, I don’t remember when he said this, he could’ve changed his mind.
2. I believe someone wrote somehting in this blog that he was skimmed money from the church. I don’t believe this is correct… or it may have been something he done a long time ago. His actions (or so he says) prove otherwise. For example, he shared that he wanted a new Escalade or Expedition and he brought it up to the board of elders. He said he wanted a big car so he can transport children to/from church. And the elder board told him to shove that Escalade up where the sun don’t shine. LOL.
He got in an accident right behind me one day (true story) and he was driving some kind of truck. I think this was 2009 or 2010, very recent. So no… he never got his Escalade, or if he did, he never drives it to church.
3. All the money he makes from his Martial Arts class is donated to the church. I don’t know anything about it, but someone told me the prices for his class are more than fair. I think it’s cool that would volunteer his Tues night to bond with the youth and help the church make money.
4. The CCGS bookstore and coffee shop prices are very reasonable, I went to the CCGS bookstore for years because they offerred the lowest prices on their music CDs. I’ve also bought a nice leather-bound bible there.
In short…. there’s a lot of good that Raul Ries has done for his community. I do believe he has God’s best intentions at heart. There’s some things I can’t stand, but it’s more a personal preference kind of thing.
Re: Post # 30 — This is a perfect example of a trend that I am seeing so much on this forum, by people who support these pastors. “Oh, well, their teaching has helped ME, and I was blessed by that church, so who cares about the people who were hurt by them?”
About a year ago, I left a spiritually abusive situation, nothing to do with Calvary Chapel, but it was a non-profit where the arrogance and lack of accountability of the leadership caused a lot of hurt to a lot of people, including myself. I actually ended up writing a blog about my experience, and of course, I was confronted with the typical “No one is perfect” or “The Bible commands us to love, and that was extremely unloving. What would Jesus Do” comments. A lot of what I am reading on this site, ironically.
The leader actually contacted me, and said that she wanted to reconcile — but the problem was, reconciliation were to be strictly on HER terms, that is, recounting everything I said and supporting her in ministry again, which I refused to do. That is not reconciliation, and she would not reconcile when I told her that she needs to step down.
Something I am noticing in this thread, is the people who say “Oh, so and so is an amazing person and annointed by God.” I have come to HATE when people use the words “amazing person” because it TOTALLY falls under the category of pastor-worship, praising the pastor. Also, it seems like everyone here in support of these pastors support them because THEY have had good experiences — like, never mind all of the people who have been hurt. That is irrelevant. To me, that is just selfishness. One thing I have come to learn, is that people need to be called out on their sins and abuses, and sometimes that entails betraying a friendship to save another person from harm. THAT is true love.
“Unfortunately, from what I’ve learned from many former CC insiders and employs of Raul Ries, and my own direct experiences, he is a liar and is more concerned about protecting his man kingdom than doing the right thing. He just had accused child molester and child beater Bob Grenier preach for him at Calvary Chapel Golden Springs and Raul knows there was physical abuse as his brother-in-law Gary Ruff witnessed Bob striking my brother Geoff in the head repeatedly, pushing him into hotel hallway wall and dragging him into a room and the noises that occurred after that.” From comment #2.
Alex, what’s the latest story on this? I am curious.
Very bizarre behavior, as Raul Ries’ autobiography was very explicit about his abusive childhood, I would think Ries’, of all the CC Pastor’s, would have no tolerance for child abuse. And trust me, if Ries’ get passionate about something, oh boy…
Was Ries one of the three pastors that was going to see Bob Grenier? I know he’s on his advisory board…
As for the Iglesias thing, although I have attended CCGS for years (decades?) I don’t know the story, except Iglesias is serving jail time. I don’t know if he was found guilty, never knew him personally.
I’m not standing up for Ries or CCGS, as you can see from my previous comment, I have a love/hate relationship with them. But I’m utterly disappointed in Ries if he did nothing about your child abuse claims, as he was abused as a child himself.
It makes me think: how far do the CC Movement’s tentacles reach? Or are the pastors completely full of crap, or so beaten down by others in the CC Movement, that they are powerless to do anything, even if it personally disgusts them?
what did pastor Raul did?
I am very sad to hear all these things about Raul and this church, Is there a CC anyone can recommend that have good pastors and that they are also truly good men. I left the Catholic church due to so many lies and abuse of power, I agree the volunteers there are not very friendly, there is a superior attitude. I also do not appreciate all the political advertisement.
Hello Alex, and all the others who have contributed to this blog.
This is the Wittenburg door for reformation within the Calvary Chapel movement.
Listen and be informed. Speak out and be rejected. Seek for accountability and not be acknowledged. But if one speaks out that one will an outcast by the CC system. I am no longer within the CC system so I can speak objectively.
This is a 2 Way Street. If one speaks out to inform others, they may be seen as a misinformed or vengeful messenger. But to those of us have firsthand experience and knowledge Alex’s quest is bold and needful. For what one must say?
This is a quest for truth within the inward parts that pulls down arguments and strongholds of Satan. It is a quest for redemption. It is a quest for others to seek restoration. It is a journey to seek justice. It is a crusade for the mighty to admit they are wrong sometimes; there are consequences for every action against a saint. Sometimes the people we think are saints are really the devils advocate. There is a very fine line.
The voice for accountability always seems to be quenched by the powerful. Unless the powerful humble themselves as true listeners to the still small voice of God. . . to actively seek peace by admitting there was a wrong committed and that wrong needs to be addressed and confessed. Yes, there are times even a Calvary Chapel pastor is wrong and needs to say he is sorry the things he is done. Not only that, but restitution also needs to take place. This is true Biblical accountability. The type of accountability that Jesus taught regarding the church. It is amazing that Matthew chapter 18 is always quoted but seldom practiced in the Calvary Chapel system.
I’ll stop now and talk a little later about this…
Worship Leader Assaulted by Raul Ries:
Many years ago, say early nineties one of Raul’s worship leaders was assaulted in in Bernie Grant’s office after a Sunday morning service. The worship leader had scheduled a group of worship leaders who were a little too Latino for Raul’s liking. (Raul really doesn’t enjoy Latino praise apparently)When the worship pastor was called in He thought Raul was just playing when he grabbed him by the throat and backed him over to Bernie Grant’s desk. He then proceeded to lay the worship leader down strait way on the desk still grasping his neck tightly. He then told the WL never to embarrass him (Raul) like that again. The WL still thought it was kind of a joke but Raul was not joking from the stern look in his eyes. “I don’t like to be embarrassed ______; I don’t want Vato worship here! Do you understand?”
The WL nervously shook his head and agreed not to schedule the group anymore. I suppose the WL could have filed charges of assault on Raul but never did because he said the Book of James prevents christians from suing other christians.
This story is true and from a highly reliable source.
Thank WW. Not surprised, RR should have had his behind kicked that day. But I’m sure the WL was frozen in astonishment at finding out his leader was a complete fake.
Re: Kathy @ 10/21
“Everything rises and falls on leadership.”
If the volunteers are rude as the norm, then you can bet they picked up their ” attitudes from their Leander’s example.
The Ral Problems withThe Calvary Chapel Model:
1. It turns good simple men into little tyrants
2. No acountability for the Senior pastor
3. No one sees the books except a very few
4. No budgets for individual ministries
5. The Immoral pastor is restored by bypassing the local church board and forming an “elite” board of croanies that are friends of the pastor
6. Staff members are paid peanuts compared to the Senior Pastor
7. Wrong leadership model (Moses) vs. right leadership model (Elders)
8. The pastor is treated like a god
9. Nepotism is the norm since each church is a little pastoral kingdom
10. Blind devotion in overlooking the sins of the pastor
11. Babylon syndrome ( Look at this great Babylon which my hands have built) . . . taking credit for the growth of the church
12. Never any apologies from the pastor even when he’s wrong, even when he is confronted wth a sinful decision
13. Fear of the staff from “touching the Lord’s anointed” the pastor( correction of the pastor is always a no no
14. Chuck Smith looks the other way when his boys are in sin
15. Quenching the Spirit by exalting a man instead of God
16. The exalting of themselves and putting down other denominations (Raul makes a fool of himelf by doing this)
17. Incorrect teaching. . .A doctrine of works (abiding doctrine) RAUL most definately teaches this
18. Trickle Down Anointing ( A belief that the anointing in the Church starts first with the pastor then “trickles” down to the secondary anointees (staff then lay personel.) I heard Raul say that the only reason the staff was anointed was because of his anointing.
19. Serious materialism fetishes (Huge houses, $8000 watches, sports cars etc) Tis is sad especialy when the pastoral staff drives around in junky used cars
20. Competition with other Calvarys Chapels = coveting what others are doing
21. Pastors stealing money from the Church whenever they want to to start businesses for their kids; then boast how their kids are millionaires. Raul Jr. His company started with Church money that was stolen to start his company. No accountability.
Most of WW’s list describes unrepentant former CC pastor Brian Abeyta, now in the New York, New Jersey & Pennsylvania area.
His social media communications continue to flaunt his faked semi-repentance; but he has very specific people he must repent to and specific things he must do in order to begin to make things right. He’s made zero efforts. Incredibly sad.
And the RAL(Raul And League) list continues . . . .
22. Most Calvary Pastors deem going to seminary (cemetary) a waste of time. So most of them are mentored by other disfunctional pastors and end up even more disfunctional themselves . . .
23. The role of the pastor’s wife is that she is the “queen” of the ministry. and by the way you better watch out if you ever try to disipline her kids (even when they are disruptive in Sunday School). I’ve seen several good men removed because of Sharon Ries’ paranoia that her kids were being picked on because they were ministry kids. . .hmmn
To be continued . . .
The Case of former assisitant Jim Sheets (an incredible servant of Jesus Christ)
Around 1995 CCGS assistant pastor Jim Sheets was asked by Raul to start a Calvary Affiliate in Raul’s former ministry are i.e. West Covina. Many people followed Jim and Jeanette over and they started having church in a school in West Covina
The problems started when Jim decided to ask the former worship leader at Raul’s church Dave Messenger to come one evening and do a worship concert. Raul the previous winter had fired Dave so that he could put his Brother In Law Norman in charge of the worship ministry. Dave apparently touched a nerve with Raul when Dave had quetioned Raul’s decision to put his BIL Norman on staff (Looks like another case of Nepotism)
After Dave Messenger sang at Calvary Christian Fellowship (now New Life Christian Fellowship) Raul decided to disfellowship Jim Sheets from ever becoming a Calvary Chapel ever again. Boy how does that power to disfellowship anymore he pleases feel?
Jim over the years tried to get affiliation but failed because of CCFOC fear of the punk Raul Ries
Just a thought…I find it a bit funny how when a man of God (ref. Pastor Raul Ries) is blessed with a nice watch or nice car (big deal), everyone has a cow and immediately jumps on the bandwagon of criticism, accusations, and anger, etc., BUT, if a person is just an everyday Christian who, as an example, runs a successful business and has “a nice watch or nice car,” it’s suddenly OK. We even admire him or her. It seems people are saying concerning a pastor; “well, that is different; you keep em’ poor, we’ll keep em’ humble.”
What does it matter? These are temporary things and not something to concern ourselves with. If Pastor Raul Ries got it honestly, THAT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, if he got it dishonestly, well then, pray for him. I’m surprised some of you people aren’t trying to find out how much he paid for his blasted underwear!!
We have more important things to concern ourselves with besides Pastor Raul Ries’s car or watch. Grow up, saints! What God blesses him with IS NOT YOUR CONCERN. If you don’t like the watch he wears, go talk to God about it.
And by they way; next time you spend 30 to 50 Grand on a car (going into debt), $1000 on your next MacBook or blow $180 taking your wife out to dinner, MAKE SURE YOU REPORT TO THE REST OF US so we can heap criticism on you and spread it all over town. GROW UP!!!
Anthony,
You stated, “MAKE SURE YOU REPORT TO THE REST OF US so we can heap criticism on you and spread it all over town. GROW UP!!!”
When you say the things that you do, you need to make sure you put them in the proper context. It’s like taking one thing out of scripture and then interpret it, but in error. Or coming in on the middle of a conversation, then sharing your opinion of only what you heard, not realizing that you totally missed out on the point being made in the context that was or is being referenced. What more, when you use decide to place what you have stated in bold, then tell someone that it is not their business, you are being abusive and what more you attempting to silent another from speaking the truth. Is this what you have learned to do by an CC pastor example, or is that just what you do when you don’t like what you are hearing? For scripture tells us that we are not to participate in doing evil, but to expose it. I would strongly suggested you begin to do a study of your own to search out scripture to find out if we are to go beyond praying for those who have offended us, particularly on the more serious issues, and hold these to an account. Then I would suggest that you “make it your business” to find out if any of the things that you have read about on this site is true.
I would encourage you to spend more time on this site to learn more so that you would be able to intelligently respond, to argue, or to even develop a better sense of what the issues are concerning the corruption and lack of accountability that has led to abuse, neglect, and even the misuse of God’s word to justify these offense.
That would, certainly in turn, bring about a far more mature response from a person such as yourself as well as, be more productive when speaking to brothers and sisters in the Lord, which you take offense.
Anthony, I trust that you are in the Lord, as we are. In this sense, the only difference is that we have done our homework and you have not. You have only become offended because someone made a comment you did not like hearing about Raul Ries. But you failed to go beyond this, then decided to rail on on here.
I stand by what I said; I read the material on this site and I made my comment; I take back nothing, and I would encourage you to keep your eyes on God, not all the faults (which you can always find) if you look closely enough at anyone.
I would further point out that this blog has NO answers from the people you are making accusations against. In other words; the claims on this blog are EXTREMELY one sided and made in a vacuum. You have NOT done your homework unless this blog has answers from the accused herein. I would bet that if they did answer the content of this material it would be rather different. I suggest you do so; it would give your site far greater credibility. As it stands right now, it’s nothing more than unsubstantiated claims with little proof and other point of views examined.
Hope that helps.
Anthony,
Thank you for responding to my comment. What you stated was far better stated than the first time around. In fact, each one of us have done our homework in that we did follow Matthew 18 and the result of this on the part of various CC Pastors mentioned was as we have already stated over and over and over again. That is the part that you are ignoring and discounting. We have received answere from them the process of following Matthew 18 and there has not been repentance of their part. Your argument that since none of these CC Pastor have responded on this site pertaining to these accusations does not weaken or discount the fact that they are true. As mentioned in my prior comment, you need to do your “homework” because for instance, the radio program that Alex did involving his conversation with Chuck Smith should help you out a bit. The evidence presented involving Raul Ries and his behavior regarding enabling pastors to continue in this position even though he himself had knowledge of serious abuse towards children as well as others. These do not require those accused to make a comment on this site. To do your homework, Anthony means you would need to look into these matters a bit more than just dismissing it because the person who had committed such offense, as well as, the whole structuring of CC being such that people like yourself really have no recourse within CC should they be violated by a Pastor if that Pastor decides to do so.
Anthony, do you really believe that the people on this site are so mean-minded that they would spend this amount of time to share the things that they have if they had not been betrayed, abused, and persecuted by the very church leadership and those within the inner circle? If so, obviously you haven’t been exposed yet to such things or you have not been a part of the ministry that everyone knows that goes on behind the scene. That could be the trouble you are having in believing what is being shared on this site. Please keep in mind, each one of us have attended CC. Most of us for many years and we were all as loyal as you are at one time. So in the sense, we understand you mindset and attitudes towards anyone that would say anything that might mess with your perspective and belief regarding these things. In this, I would say just keep your eyes open and your heart on the word of God while also being mindful to just how well the congregants are or are not being tended to in concrete ways. By reading through this site, we have listed many things that would help a person to know and to ask question regarding how their church is operated. How much of a say-so do you have Anthony regarding the decisions made in your church and how money is disbursed? Being a non-member means that you do not participate in this whatsoever. And if you should ask certain questions, then what happens, Anthony? How many people do you know are practicing sexual immorality and abusing their spouse and children, starters? What about within the leadership? What is the process that takes place for such church discipline. Because I Corithians 5:6-13 and I Corinthians 6:1-9 for beginners make these things quite clear. You have stated that people who are violated in such a way ought pray about it. But God tells us, Anthony that we are to hold these to an account and to warn the entire congregation. Guess what, Anthony? You are now being warned—will you open your eyes and your ears, and ask God to show you what we are trying to say to you and everyone else, including the CC leadership? Anthony—one last question. Are you stuck in Romans 7 and have yet to decide to begin living in Romans 8? For if you sow to the flesh you will reap to the flesh, but if you sow to the spirit, you will reap to the spirit. Light cannot dwell with darkness and when leaven is permitted to be in the church body and among the leadership, then what is being sown is being done upon one’s own efforts and charismatic personality. It is not of the power of the Holy Spirit. Either we walk in obedience to God’s word, or we will reap the whirlwind thinking that somehow to do otherwise is not mocking what God grace.
In Romans 8, we are told to put these things away and that if we are saved, we have the power of the Holy Spirit to do so—–and to hold one another to an account—not to do them harm, Anthony, but certainly to proctect the body of Christ and hopefully, to cause them to repent and to stop hurting themselves, as well as, others.
Anthony, you say you have read through this site—I find that difficult to believe, becuase if you had, the level of empathy, understanding, and discernment would be far more evident than what you have expressed here, towards those who are your brothers and sisters in Christ, Jesus. So, dear one please slow down and reconsider these things and know that those who have spoken the truth on this site in no way have done so to bare a false witness or to mislead you or anyone else. It is because of the love that we have in our hearts and the grief, as well as, the pain that we have experienced with the desire for reconcilation with those who have been a party to those things that have caused us harm that we speak the truth and warn others, asking that others would stand with us to bring these things into the light so that CC would reestablish themselves to better reflect a church leadership that not only cares about its lock but also recognizes it as being a vital part in the decision making processes necessary to hold everyone to an account, including the leadership in order to protect and to get rid of this leaven that is so rampant within the Mose’s Model that it is seated upon.
So, just because those who are guilty and have cause harmed have not made any comment on this site does not mean they have not done wrong. Quite the contray—it is thier silence that bears even further evidence how rebellious and hardhearted they are in their own arrogance in thinking that to do so will enable them to continue to commit such things. We are not dealing with the way man’s law deal with things. We are dealing with those things that God clearly tells ought not to be taking place in the midst of the congregation and among those who place themselves in leadership roles. So to remain silent after being addressed by these who have made the effort apply Matthew 18 and were ignored by using silence, they are committing a even greater wrong. For it is just another form of lying and hiding the truth.
“I would further point out that this blog has NO answers from the people you are making accusations against. In other words; the claims on this blog are EXTREMELY one sided and made in a vacuum. ”
I don’t moderate this site, so I don’t know whether Alex allows the other side. I suspect he would since he allowed your comment to remain.
However, I would encourage you to take a step back and look once again at your claim about one-sided comments. Would the comments and concerns made here on this blog be allowed at Calvary Chapel churches? I’ve been told and have read here that there are repercussions for those that speak out. Why is that?
If the “other side” has free reign to say whatever comments they desire, but does not allow dissenters, why can’t Alex have his own blog to allow those who have been silenced to have a voice?
How pastors spend the widow’s mite is the congregations business. God uses people to hold others accountable, most often.
I’ll no longer give $ to any ministry that doesn’t have open books and built in accountability from different angles.
Any pastor living above the average person in their congragation isn’t worth his salt.
“Andrew” (or are you Raul?),
It doesn’t matter how much you try to put a spotlight on us and make us look unfavorably for pointing out the excessive spending of the sacrificial giving of people, most people end up here because they have already see serious sin issues in their Calvary Chapels. Once they’ve seen it, they recognize the connection between the lack of financial accountability, excessive spending, and the other sins of spiritual abuse+ more.
You can’t convince the people reading here that we should all just ignore what excessive spending indicates.
We don’t moderate anyone unless they continue to be abusive. We warn them that their behavior is wrong and that they will be moderated if they continue this behavior. If they stop, great! If they don’t, then they are banned from commenting.
It’s to bad CC can’t do the same.
As far as the other side of the story. I would like to point you to the leader of the whole CC movement and his phone call with Alex. You can hear the heart of this “man of god”.
Anthony: we do have a say in what the pastor buys/wears/drives. We funded it. I never want my tithes going to a 60,000 car. That is ludicrous. I trust CCGS is going to use that tithe money for the glory of God, such as helping the poor, helping the sick, helping widows, giving scholarships. I would NEVER give money to the worship band, or fog lights, or a Christian concert.
If it’s from his side endeavors (books sales, ghost writing, etc…). that’s ok, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, he’s making all this money because of JESUS, I would hope he uses it to glorify him, but… it’s his money, he can use it for whatever he wants. But it is setting a bad example.
But when it’s the church being overly generous towards the leaders, that is WRONG, especially because I know a poor person who has graciously given past years, cannot go to CCGS and ask for help. If the church doesn’t have enough money to help the poor, then it doesn’t have enough money to give extravagant gifts, or expand their buildings, or give generous severence packages, then let the pastor come back after a year (Skip Hezig)
Most people do NOT think this behavior is okay. If someone keeps posting about the abuses, they will stop tithing to the church, and give their money more directly to the poor (which I have started doing). Of course the CC Movement condones this behavior, but that’s why Alex’s blog is so important. Because if people keep posting stuff, and it’s proven true, then CC will NOT get funded. No funding = very unhappy pastor, elder board. And things will start to change.
BTW: I don’t think Ries abuses his finances. I still haven’t seen anything that shows without a doubt that he skims funds for his personal use. The closest thing would be his son’s business and hiring his BIL, but until someone has the courage to post the full story, I’m going to say that CCGS is acting honorably with their finances.
I hate nepotism… but I don’t have the full story, I didn’t even realize the worship leader was his BIL. Is it the guy with the trumpet? Yeah, he’s annoying.
Just curious, does anyone know who owns Calvary Chapel Golden Springs and other ministries under this umbrella? I ask this because it is my understanding that each Calvary Chapel owned by the Senior Pastor. Imagine that, the church is own by its pastor, but the church has no membership or is able to participate in any of the administrative decision making processes including budget and leadership assignment, vesting, and church discipline.
So, in essence the Sr. Pastor owns all assets, but the guest pays for these things and the “privilege” of hearing the word and being entertained as long as they don’t rock the boat.
And this is why I do not “pay tithes” or give a “donation” or “offering.” I believe the Lord has told us to be good stewards of what He provides. Investing in the Pastor retirement fund and building his kingdom is not in my mind taking care of the flock who are hungry, homeless, sick, and without jobs. Therefore, my offerings will be given to those who are in greater need and more humbled and grateful to receive it instead. Thinking of Lazarus and the rich ruler in Abraham’s bosom comes to mind when I think of these things. In my opinion, CC pastors puts themselves in the role of Moses and the levitical priesthood living under a theocracy. Not the N.T. church that was a community of believers pooling their resources together helping one another and by the way each other to an account, as well.
So, if you know who owns CC Golden Spring and the other ministry that branches out from it, please do share, along with why or why not this would be appropriate in terms of financial accountability and administrative opersations and lack of membership among those who name this CC as their home church. Thanks.
Testing, testing—–wanted to add, but for some reason when submitting not listed or being placed in moderation. Will try again.
You can search corporationwiki and get information on owners and companies listed using data from data from California Secretary of State and Dun & Bradstreet.
Uriah: I used to work for the property management company that CCGS sits on, and the bills were paid by CCGS, as an entity (I think… it may have been called something else, all I remember was it was an organization, not a person).
I guess this doesn’t really help… because the organization would have to belong to somebody…
this is a great question… I’m curious as to how this works also… who has the “legal” rights to CCs? Maybe it works like a corporation?
Wow, if CCGS “belongs” to Ries, he’s a fraud. He always mentioned about his martial arts class being run as a “donation” to the church. In essense, he would be donating to himself. LOL… that would be a definiton of a fraud.
Uriah: I can’t find CCGS on Corporation Wiki because they are under a different name, which I can’t remember. CCGS is part of another bigger entity, that serves as an umbrella for other organization. This name doesn’t even have Calvary Chapel in it. Does anyone know what it’s called?
Uriah: I just want to thank you for posting here. You’re such an encouragement, a real beacon of truth and knowledge. It was fascinating to see that there are CCs that are owned by one single person, usually a lead pastor. I’m not saying that’s bad/good, but it’s another notch in my church politics education.
Anthony:
it’s 2am, and I can’t sleep. Congratulations. Your comment was disturbing enough for me to think about it.
Well, I guess I could disagree with you… but then, I prayed about it, and a still small voice spoke to me, it said, “maybe he’s right. maybe we are in a vacuum. Maybe people that are being accused should come on here and defend themselves?”
Personally, if we have the truth on our side, we’ve got nothing to fear. I would LOVE to hear from Bob Grenier speak about his son, and see him face up to all the rage this site has caused (rightfully so). But that’s the thing… our voices are ignored… it’s like church has operated in a vacuum for years,abusing God’s glory for decades. Now there’s an outlet where people can air their grievances, and the church is silent. They do not dare come into an environment they cannot control and acknowledge the complaints before them. Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to the body as a whole to have the leaders come here and publically air their side of the story? Why are they so afraid of putting EVERYTHING down in writing? Jesus wasn’t afraid… he wanted EVERYTHING recorded, even the mistakes (aka David and Bathsheeba).
This hits a raw note with me, because I had very real grievances with my past two churches (not Calvary Chapels) and they have done everything they can to mute me instead of patiently and kindly explaining themselves. I found it hilarious that one of the leaders from my old church told me she didn’t want to communicate with me via email, but we could “talk” about it in person. LOL. How fortunate that I now live 5 hours away! I guess a phone call would be out of the question, my same phone number is only good for soliciting donations, but no good when I’ve got an issues that need to be explained.
So Anthony, besides coming on here, then disappearing, and not addressing the issues that we have stated (with proof!), why don’t you tell us your side of the story?
Perhaps the most important question the sheep need to ask their ceo-pastor…
“who owns the title deed to the property?”
The answer will speak volumes if you get one…
“I am very sad to hear all these things about Raul and this church, Is there a CC anyone can recommend that have good pastors and that they are also truly good men”
Hi Marcy: I think giving recommendations on church is subjective, everyone is different, churches are different because people are different. I used to attend CCGS for years, but as more allegations against Ries arise, I’m starting to have 20/20 hindsight, and see under the veneer of religious piety, there’s a lot of problems with that church.
I used to live in the area, so I’ve attended most the churches in that area. I have nothing bad to say about Morningstar Christian Church in Whittier. I’ve read horrible things about Calvary Chapel Montebello. I attended CC Fullerton for 7 yrs, and served there. They also had a lot of problems, you can read my Yelp review, but the teaching is solid and I really flourished as a Christian there. But they did have a lot of problems, so I would tread lightly, a lot of people hate that church. Also, I have nothing bad to say about CC Anaheim, probably one of the most transparent and sincere churches I’ve attended.
As I stated before, finding a home church is a personal, heartfelt thing. The real recommendation will come to you in prayer. But I hope my little blip helped you decide.
sorry, my 301 should have said,
“whose NAME is on the title deed?” because that person owns the property.
Kathy, go to corporationwiki and look click on “names” then type in Raul Ries. You will find everything you need to know. CCGS is not listed at all by that name but is listed as something else—you’ll figure it out when you see all the property and how it is split off to protect each one–corporate style, that is.
It’s not what most people would think that a church aught to be but it is definitely a business.
Kathy, would that be Andrew Productions?
Andrew Productions, Inc. has a location in Diamond Bar, CA. Active officers include Raul A. Ries.
There are 5 different corporations listed, but they all trace back to Andrew Productions and each corporation is owned by Raul Ries and list him as the President.
It appears that Andrew Production corporate status has become inactive. However, it also appears that it is not being incorporated under different name: “So I Send You”
So Send I You has a location in Diamond Bar, CA. Active officers include Raul A. Ries and Hector Martinez. The company’s line of business includes Religious Organization Individual/Family Services.
So does that mean that people are not attending CC Golden Spring, but rather are meeting at the corporate building of “So I Send You” instead?
Kathy asked:
“I am very sad to hear all these things about Raul and this church, Is there a CC anyone can recommend that have good pastors and that they are also truly good men”
I would like to point you to Chris Lawson’s site and encourage you to research his history with CC. I have been following his warnings to CC and the outcome of those warnings.
If you notice the last paragraph of this article, you will see that Chris says there are good CC pastors but they don’t speak out for fear of losing their pastorate. Then I would encourage you to look at John 12:42-43. I was a worship leader for 7 years with 4 of the 5 CC’s in the Las Vegas valley. My wife and I left for reasons (most of which have been expressed/experienced on this site by abused members/ non-members of the congregation ) and many more.. Now I warn and try to discourage anyone from attending CC. To any of you still attending and defending CC, I would tell you this. You are being deceived! In direct violation of the commandment of Jesus in Matthew 24:4-5. I readily admit that I too was deceived and often defended the “pastors” in these “churches”. I no longer do that, having my eyes opened and comparing what is taking place in these facilities to the word of God. It does not line up! You would also do well to research Roger Oakland and his history with CC.
http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/SRN_blog/2012/11/For-the-hurting-who-have-left-Calvary-Chapel
God bless you, and your safest place is in the word of God.
It appears that Andrew Production corporate status has become inactive. However, it also appears that it is now being incorporated under different name: “So I Send You”
So Send I You has a location in Diamond Bar, CA. Active officers include Raul A. Ries and Hector Martinez. The company’s line of business includes Religious Organization Individual/Family Services.
So does that mean that people are not attending CC Golden Spring, but rather are meeting at the corporate building of “So I Send You” instead?
But then again, this is the Mission Statement provided on CCGS site:
The mission statement of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs and Pastor Raul Ries is based upon Acts 1:8:
“But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Under the leading of the Holy Spirit, Hidden Manna Corporation, with the establishment of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs, ministers to those in our Jerusalem which is Diamond Bar and the surrounding communities of the San Gabriel Valley, the Inland Empire and North Orange County.
Judea and Samaria are reached through EXIT Concerts, Somebody Loves You Concerts and Somebody Loves You Radio. All of these ministries reach further a field than the immediate communities surrounding Diamond Bar and have even gone to the end of the earth through our international concerts, Spanish radio program and websites, http://www.calvarygs.org and http://www.somebodylovesyou.org.
Another branch of Hidden Manna, So Send I You Missions, reaches out to the ends of the earth. We have churches established throughout Central & South America which are ministered to through Pastor’s Conferences and Women’s Conferences.
Hidden Manna Corporation was established with the express intention of fulfilling the commission that Christ put forth to His disciples in the Book of Acts. That commission was not to end with His disciples but to go on as God adds disciples to the church day by day.
Each entity has Raul Ries as President. On the site, no other pastor or assistant pastor’s name is listed, nor is there a directory to contact specific staff personnal. In my mind, this makes it difficult to talk with anyone and to do so ends up being a bit of a maze to get anything addressed, resolved, or to even file a complaint or to know what the chain of command might be in order to have a complaint, grievance or even an something of a more positive nature communicated.
researched my old CC on the corpwiki. interesting stuff, 4 different corps all with the head pastor as president or the CC as managing partner.
looked up my new church, only thing listed is the church and who the officers are and how to contact them.
Excellent, Brian! John 12:42-43 bears repeating! The silence and/or excuses from current CC pastors refusal to speak up for the abused in CC, against leaders in sin… Not even an investigation of serious allegations …. It’s sad and pathetic.
Brian: thanks for the Lawson article. I completely agree. Even when I was serving at CC Fullerton, a church I respected and loved, many left because of the Moses model pastorship. I stayed for my own reasons, but I empathized with those that left and agree that the pastor was wrong and the situation at CC Fullerton was an abuse of the Moses model. But I directly confronted the Pastor about the situation and he was very honest about what happened, so I decided to overlook it, and I’ll still recommend that church to people.
Uriah: that’s very disturbing stuff about Raul Ries. 20/20 hindsight…. I see it so clearly now. Ries is a defintion of a fraud. I wonder if “hidden manna” is some sick joke, where he’s funneling church money into these other corp. that belong to him, and it’s being lost in the papertrail.
i think the best way to not be swindled is to judge the fruit of the tree. Ries was never a model of compassion, patience and empathy. His congregation is no different that what you’d find at a sportbar (maybe worse! at least the people at the sportsbar are having fun!). I should have left that church the first time (when I was appalled at how rude they were) and never looked back. But I trusted the Calvary Chapel brand, which I think so many are mistakenly doing. They’re not doing their homework and researching what their church is up to. It’s so much easier to say, “I leave it to faith.” then to take the time to read or listen to others and ask the harsh questions about their church.
Uriah,
Hidden Manna Corporation is the main board which oversees all operations. The officers and directors listed are those which serve within the inner circle of CCGS.
Andrew Productions, (by the way, Andrew is Raul’s middle name), is the production company for his recent movies, which were primarily funded by an outside investor. A widow that desired her monies be used for Vietnam stories through Raul.
So Send I You, has Hector Martinez as a director. Hector and his wife are very close to the Ries family. Long story there. This organization owns all the mission’s property (Chile, Colombia) and manages all the crusade and outreach events.
Logos Media was started in the late 80′s, as an effort of Peter Claproth and John Frattarola. Both men were great leaders at CC West Covina. Yet, both men were (in my opinion) tragically cast away due to personal issues with Ries family members.
The bookstore has always been the golden egg for Sharon’s projects and women’s ministry funds.
You now have a good detail of the rationale for each of the organizations and their operating purpose. Welcome…
Some of God’s word for our consideration:
Jeremiah 5:31 ” The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priest rule by their own power, and My people love to have it so. But what will you do in the end.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers, and they will turn their ears from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.”
2Th 2:3 “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition…”
Thanks for the info, Uriah & FWIW.
Sounds like a convenient shell game.
Re: Kathy
You asked if there are any good CC pastors? Well, to me CC churches are set up like corporations with the pastor acting as the CEO and teacher. I don’t see(or hear of) a lot of true pastoring/shepherding being done.
Even if the role of a CC pastor is not an issue for someone, and even if the pastor is a decent teacher, I still could not recommend them because the CC culture and organizational structure’s design corrupts even good men.
Without meaningful accountability for CC leaders actions and finances, while they hold all the power and assets, I cannot trust that these men with clay feet won’t fall. At least in other churches they have checks and balances of accountability built into their structure, and I choose churches that have more than oneself with all the control.
Oneself = one person
What are the other checks and balances that are in place?
Sorry for my ignorance, I’m very naive about church politics and administration.
And I don’t go on this site to specifically bash Calvary Chapels. Out of all the denominations (movements, whatever….) I found Calvary Chapel to be the best. But that’s not saying much, I’ve had horrible experiences with the other churches. My passion is church accountability. that’s why I support Alex fervently, I believe CC Visalia is the perfect example of church abuse. And my other passion is to comfort those who have been abused (or hurt, abuse is a strong word) by “church”.
I believe in freedom of speech, and I believe airing out grievances is godly and it heals the soul. I believe there needs to be an entity that speaks for the individual versus the church, and the individual not be judged or ostracized.
Unfortunately, Calvary Chapel has been the center of abuse, so I support this site, even though I don’t hate Calvary Chapel. I’ve seen the evils of the Moses model firsthand, but I haven’t seen anything that is foolproof that can replace it. What are some of these checks and balances in other churches?
Kathy,
Thinking about you last comment and a couple things jump out at me. First, whe you stated:
“And my other passion is to comfort those who have been abused (or hurt, abuse is a strong word) by “church”.
IMO if someone had just hurt me, it would be something that I could work through with or without the person having offended, but when someone abuses me then it has to do with violating me as a person psychologically, mentally, spiritually, economically, sexually, and or spiritually, in such a way that if is not expose, it would continue become progressively worse, as well as being perpetrated upon others.
So when thinking about CC and those who have been injured, I would not considered to as being “hurt,” but rather abused. Now in the process of being abused, one of the feelings they may carry within them is of hurt, but also many other feelings that would be quite normal to feel in light of being betrayed, traumatized, and victimized by a person or system that attempted to silence them to avoid accountability.
When you stated: “I’ve seen the evils of the Moses model firsthand, but I haven’t seen anything that is foolproof that can replace it. What are some of these checks and balances in other churches?”
I’m certain that others have also posed this question in figuring out what to do and where to go in lieu of attending a Calvary Chapel. My concern is making the mistake in thinking that it is better to stay at a CC until you can find something else to replace it. On one hand you yourself state that you have “seen the evils of the Moses model firsthand” yet seem to be hesitate in calling these things that emanate from this system abusive and if I’m understanding you correctly, that unless someone can tell you where else to go, then you will continue attending until someone gives you the name of an alternate place to go to fellowship.
In my mind this is like people asking the woman that is being abused why she does not leave her husband? Or why she goes back to an abusive husband. by the way, a woman does this because she has no place to go or lacks the funds and support from others to make it on her own. She will also stay if she has children because she knows how difficult, if not impossible to get the support and be able provide for her children alone. this is why abusive husbands doe what they do in the way that they do.
There is a motto in the military that is used among Command when running the recruits through boot camp that goes something like this: keep them from thinking and they will be unable to form an opinion of their own.
Abusers know that if they can make you think there is no place for you to go and that if you did you would fail without them “taking care” of you.
So, Kathy, I would say to everyone, get out and get away from the brainwashing, because until you do, then you are only going to see things from being in that environment. But as you move away from it most are quite surprse at the objectivity gained as a result of being able to see the trees from the forrest. Don’t let not having another church to go to keep you in a system that you know is not abiding in God’s Word. Don’t let the teaching persuade you to stay when you see with your own eyes or convince by the witnesses of others that the fruits are such that has been named on this site.
This site also provides information relating to what to look for in a healthy church. Don’t join a church just because everyone is friendly, but take the time to sit down with the pastor and ask him the questions you need to have answered in selecting where you and your family might congregate. Take the time to research various denominations online, going beyond their site. For instance, you might want to look into “Hope Alive,” a church I just recommended to you, and since you like me–you decide to visit their webpage and see all kind of activities and family oriented or other activities portrayed. There might be a message from the Sr. Pastor. There may be a statement of belief (doctrinal belieft) that you can check out or there may not be one at all. This for me would number one in ascertaining if it was truly a Christian church, at least in doctrinal statement. But go beyond this and find out about the type of government this church has and how the congregation participates personally and as a group. Write down your questions and make an appointment to see the Pastor. This meeting will tell you just how available and transparent the Pastor is when asking questions., because you are going ask them about how they handle the budget and who is involved in the decision making process concerning finances, as well as, church discipline. If they back on you, then thank them for their time and move on. For some, it could also be used as an opportunity to witness to them regarding their need to be more in line with the Word and N.T. Church. But please do this respectfully and ever so considerately.
You may also want to find out what and how they teach God’s Word. Many sites now have a sermon or study that you can listened to online. I like doing this as it gives me the ability to be more objective, rather than to be swayed before hand by the “friendliness” of the welcoming committee., which is last on my list of priority. It is important, but it is also last on my list. In my experience, I have found churches who do not believe in hell or believe in hell, but don’t teach on it, or stay out of the Old Testament, “because, people get bored, too easily,” or break up into groups for the group to give their own interpretation base on the experiences in life or have rules such as not being permitted to be in a swimming pool when someone of the opposite gender is in it as well–this goes even with young children all the way to being an adult—-for real!!
But whatever you do, like others have shared—don’t ever take your focus and mind off of Christ, Jesus and stay reading the Word and in prayer while you are making the transition. Whatever you do, don’t think that just because you have not found another church, that CC is better than having no church to go to at all. This cannot be viewed as an option or “all or nothing” or “it’s better than nothing.” Not when leaven is so rampant and if you cannot address within the church, but must remain silent while knowing that it is going on, then to remain means you are participating even if you are silent. So listen to the Holy Spirit and pay attention to the rotten feeling you keep getting in your gut other red flags that you are sensing and make up your mind—–don’t be deceived, because IMO it is exactly what Satan would have you to do—that is to paralyzed you into being a bench warmer and a water boy to build a kingdom that is not of the Lord after all.
Don’t get sucked into that type of mindset——the church is wherever you are gather with another who is truly in Christ. For instance, on this site you might hear or even feel that we are a church gathered as well in His Holy and Precious name, speaking the truth and enjoying the blessings of sharing His word while we struggle through similar or like issues that prompted Alex in the first place to warn the church and hold those to an account who had abused and harmed that which is so very precious and near to his and God’s own heart.
I realize I’ve been long winded on this. I think Kathy brought up some excellent things to consider and I believe others are also thinking the very things she has shared. With that, I thought it expedient to share what I have as well. Hope they are of benefit to all and for those who haven’t, but are able, please don’t forget to stand with Alex in his attempt to protect and to speak the truth by donating to his Legal Fund.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
Uriah: I’ve taken what you said to heart. You’re right, the Calvary chapel system is corrupt and leads to abuse, so instead of being the wife who stays in an abusive relationship, hoping that her husband will change, I’m going to completely cut myself off from the Calvary Chapel Movement. The Moses model, and all the problems it creates, is now their problem, and until there are checks and balances of power, I will not step into another Calvary Chapel again.
Of course… then there’s the problem of what church I shall attend? For now… none. I’m going to de-program myself into thinking God = church, but instead stay quiet and listen to the still small voice in my heart. You’re right, church isn’t an organization, it’s a body of believers that know Christ.
But I disagree that this blog is church. I don’t come here to worship Jesus, but to educate myself on church abuse.
“Don’t let not having another church to go to keep you in a system that you know is not abiding in God’s Word. Don’t let the teaching persuade you to stay when you see with your own eyes or convince by the witnesses of others that the fruits are such that has been named on this site.”
Uriah, I just want to thank you again for your words of wisdom and what you bring to this blog. I’m so encouraged by what you post.
As I look back on my long, and embittered relationship with church… there has only been two churches that have really helped me in my relationship with Christ and helped me in my life (practically) and both of those churches have been Calvary Chapel. More importantly, it was a Calvary Chapel where I learned to read the Scriptures and learned what it was to have a relationship with Christ. So, I will always have a nagging loyalty to the Calvary Chapel movment.
On the other hand, I can honestly say CCGS has done nothing for my spiritual walk with God, outside of some cheap worship CDs. The spirit I feel at CCGS is the same as I do with other churches, who are into “church” for their own personal gain. 20/20 hindsight… I cannot believe I tolerated the abuses of CCGS for as long as I did (just as I can’t believe I tolerated the abuses of the other churches that were not God centered) but it’s there damning theology that we must go to church and obey and submit to their leaders (the Moses model). And it is my deepest desire that this blog frees people from that suffocating burden of works, to expose those churches and leaders for who they are, and allow people to freely worship Christ without all the external baloney that “church” has created.
Here is the most damning revelation of all: nowadays, we can go about God’s work without having to answer to an organization or a church, and have to submit to a church’s leadership that may/may not have God’s desires at heart. There’s so many online sermons that are free. Since we don’t have to tithe, we can 100% donate our resources to whatever we feel best glorifies God. If we want to serve the Lord, we no longer have to look very far to see a brother or sister in need, as the economy is so bad, and many people are in need.
Kathy,
It is important that you not forsake the fellowship of those who are in Christ. So whether it be on line or with your next door neigbor or a weekly get together in your own or someone else’s home to share God’s Word and to sharpen your spiritual sword to keep you on track and to one another along the King’s highway, be sure that you do not remain in isolation for very long.
In the meantime, I would encourage you to visit the various sites that Alex has listed as ministries where you can continue to learn what a good church looks like and how to locate them. I would also encourage you to stay on this site as there is always a steady stream of new information being provided as well as the opportunity to minister to one another and if nothing else to know you are not alone and that others understand or can relate to this transition out of Calvary Chapel that does take place. It is important to us to know how you are doing so that we can pray for you and offer words of wisdom and encouragement as well as to hear what you have to share with us.
What more we need you as a sister in Christ to stand with us as we seek to warn and to hold CC leadership to an account. We need your prayers and we need your presence among us. Okay?
I can see that several people have complaints on Paul Ries. In the words of Chuck Smith although we are told not to judge one another, he said that we are to judge by their fruit. And it is true by the Word of God, that Deacon and Elders (and certainly pastors by implication!) are held to a higher standard than the congregation. That’s the Word–judge the fruit and have stricter standards for leaders–no matter how much we like or love him–that is GOD’S WORD!
But I didn’t seek out this site to talk about that–I never met him but have heard both his and Sharon’s testimony more than once. There as something gravely wrong with it. It is a fact that most people shall not be saved–and what if you’re married to one and you hear this marvelous testimony and then you feel like a total failure. Reminds me of the Pastor in the Queen’s NY area who had a Ries Mindset and told the abused church member who ran to his house for protection to have faith and go back to her husband. Well, she didn’t have to live in abuse much longer–she was greeted by 17 stab wounds and died. That’s just one true story I know. There are several more.
The Ries’ are so irresponsible to fail to make a disclaimer and say that if you’re in danger, here’s a number to call and call 911 first. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR WOMEN BETWEEN THE AGES OF 17- 44. It’s just as common in churches. The Ries’ should be speaking about this and protecting the victims of abuse & injury–instead of profiting off their rare testimony to make them famous and cause divorced women to feel like failures because they divorced their husbands. God knows I prayed for mine for 24 years while he was abusing me and other church members encouraged the abuse by telling what a saint I was for suffering. Some would blithely say, “Well the worst that can happen is that you go straight to heaven!” Yeah? Like the father goes to prison and my small daughters are left ORPHANS?
We have a sweet couple like the Ries at our church do a healing seminar and I don’t believe that they realize th dark side to their great but RARE testimony. A few years ago God allowed me the privilege and rescuing a woman in our church who and been crippled by her husband. I’m now working with a lady who’s lived her entire marriage of 46 years in physical, verbal, financial abuse and her husband isolates her and I alone am her only friend–because I’m not afraid to stand up for her. Instead of giving speeches, why don’t they stand up for the estimated few million women living in fear and abuse???
I won’t take my friend to hear the couple at my church. She is already extremely damaged and hearing them would bring guilt and shame upon her for leaving her adulterous and violent husband! The watch and all that are not so important as women’s lives. The Bible in several places commands us to protect women and children.
Has any woman been injured or died under their because she thought her abusive husband would repent like Paul did–an I believe he genuinely think he did! John 8:32
Gossip, gossip, gossip. Way to try and tear down a ministry. God WILL handle it in His time, if there is something to be handled. I think you should all get in the Word and stay out of peoples business. The Bible lays down the rules for how to deal with church dicipline and I’m pretty sure babbling on the internet is not in scripture. All the righteous good you could be doing hear and you choose this. Sad. And if God decides to bless him and he can afford a nice watch, who are you to question God. Dangerous ground bro. Instead of trying to hurt him did you ever think of just putting a call out for everyone to pray for the Brother. And we wonder why the church is falling apart. You have put yourself under a heavy burden my friend along with those who take part in this.
james: And we wonder why the church is falling apart?
hey James, don’t blame us because the church is falling apart, we are just the fruit of that fall… I believe we are trying to stop it from falling further.
someone once said, remember therefore from whence thou art fallen…
James: You have put yourself under a heavy burden my friend along with those who take part in this.
someone also once said, then you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free!
James, the Kool-aid is strong with you
“gossip” is a convenient smoke screen often used by those who are corrupt and abusive to obfuscate and poison the well of those exposing their bad actions so the giving sheep won’t hear of their misdeeds.
The bible does speak of church discipline and the bible commands us to “warn”, “expose”, “publicly rebuke”, “tell it unto the church” etc.
It also calls Pastors to a very specific set of Qualifications and sets a “higher standard” and “stricter judgment”.
Regarding Raul’s Omega watch etc. Raul is a rich man. Kind of like the Rich Young Ruler and the rich Pharisees etc.
…if Raul is “specially anointed’ by God…seems he’d be more like Paul the Apostle who lived hand-to-mouth serving the Lord. I don’t think Paul the Apostle ever sported Omega watches and drove expensive sports cars.
Raul would no sooner part with his beloved money and riches than the Rich Young Ruler did.
Alex and James:
Alex stated: “Regarding Raul’s Omega watch etc. Raul is a rich man. Kind of like the Rich Young Ruler and the rich Pharisees etc.
…if Raul is “specially anointed’ by God…seems he’d be more like Paul the Apostle who lived hand-to-mouth serving the Lord. I don’t think Paul the Apostle ever sported Omega watches and drove expensive sports cars.”
We who have come forth out of the corrupted and unbiblical CC Moses’ Model to speak the truth as the Lord has dictated to us through His Word to warn, to exhort, and to admonish to bring repentance and reconciliation can be liken to the Rich Man and Lazarus.
When people boldly speak of matters that do not address the underlying issues that are easily veriable, but rather judge things from those things that gives an appearance of godliness, then they also contribute to that which is not of the Lord. It would be better to first search out the truth from the foundational structure which CC has set its house upon and go from there. Church organizations have fallen a long way from the example of seeing to the flocks as Paul has set forth in the New Testament. What more, at no time was the congregation ever treated as separated from the decision making processes that takes place concerning any matter that effected the church at large.
James stated: ” I think you should all get in the Word and stay out of peoples business. The Bible lays down the rules for how to deal with church dicipline and I’m pretty sure babbling on the internet is not in scripture.”
To say that the “Word” and “People Business” are to be treated independently is not scriptural. For we as a body of Christ, individually and as whole, if in the Lord cannot separate even the smallest matter that pertains to our very being from the Word. For no matter how one would try, the reality is one does effect the rest. Just as leaven destroys the whole loaf. When a child is molested or spouse is betrayed for instance, it does affect the entire body of Christ, as well as brings a reproach upon the very name of Jesus. To say, pray about it and then let God settle it, then ignore the very mandates given by Paul himself —that is, to apply church discipline is walking in disobedience and invites even worse sin into the church. To say these are “family matters,” yes, it is —- it is the very family of God that are told to deal with these things.
What more to use the tithes and offerings to build one’s kingdom upon this earth while ignoring those things that leave open sores and injured brothers and sisters just outside the doors of ones congregation is a direct analogy of the rich man and Lazarus. No matter what type of watch this person might decide to purchase.
As for “babbling” on the internet, I take this to mean that you mean to offend or to reduce one down to not being worthy to be heard by the church at large. Careful, James for it is you who do not know that you are also speaking to the church on this site who have and will continue to speak those things that we know to be true. As for the “Internet” being used to do this, think of it this way. James, if after we have follow scripture in bringing these things to that person or person who has offended, did not repent, we then went to the leadership, but then the whole matter ignored, then sought to bring it to the church to warn others and to hopefulling accomplish that which as yet to be addressed, does it matter how it is done, as long as our hearts are right before the Lord?
Does not CC use other media other than the pulpit to promote CC? Of course they do. Can you imagine what may have happened, had we had the Internet, in the days when Jesus, or any of those who followed after him? We have the chose to use these modes of media communication for good or for evil. So you may call it babbling, but if it is the truth, is it babbling or is it a case of you contributing to the offenses that have caused much harm to the body already?
James, finally—when the leadership owns all assets and the body is separated from that which holds itself as the “head” not being accountable to any, except for God—-then you know longer have a New Testament church. The Bible in deed has rules to live by and at its core, it tells us the “all” things are to be under Christ, Jesus. It tells us that we are to expose that which is evil and not to participate in it. Be it done in the home, work, community, and place people gather together in His name, it is to be exposed. To do anything less than this, is simply living in the flesh and promotes the persecution that has and is bringing much harm to the true body of Christ, that is in the Lord. James, that body which you have so arrogantly and ignorrantly accused of being “babblers.” All because you have failed to search the scriptures, outside of a Mose’s model that would bend scirpture to fit its own ungodly agendas, instead.
James, would you not rather have the truth known and evil exposed, or would you rather protect a person who have used scipture to build that which is not of the Lord? Or does this have more with wanting a God that does not interfere, using His people to hold you to an account those things that pertain to what you would deem to be, “People Business?”
Quite frankly, when is people business not the business of God and where in scripture does God ever tells the church to ignore these things and just pray about them? Who is the church, James. For the Moses’ model created by Chuck Smith does not recognize them, but rather set the leadership apart and above it all.
sad about reading all this stuff:(Raul is a good teacher. I go to Calvary Chapel golden springs and I used to work for somebody loves you radio. it doesn’t matter what church we go to is long as the we are Bibles and trust in the Lord. the devil can’t win because Jesus is the owner of our souls. Raul does care about the church and lost souls. we shouldn’t judge people only love. and Raul is not rich. love with Jesus yes. Jesus is our love and hope.
Cynthia,
When you say we shouldn’t judge people, only love. What do you mean by this?
I am asking because in loving people we must also be able to hold them to an account and not permit sin to contaminate that which is good. So if someone is harming the church and they are not being held to an account, then are you loving the church by not protecting it?
Just curious… why the targetting of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs specifically?
I currently attend a Calvary Chapel and absolute adore/love it. No one there is perfect, including the staff but I have grown in my walk with the Lord exponentially and am blessed to experience such a free, loving congretation that truly embraces what the Bible teaches and seeks earnestly to live it out. It is amazing to, for once, have people in my life who actually stand beside me. Our body is healthy and excited about what the Spririt is doing in and through us. We pray that things stay that way, knowing what has happened and is happening in churches around us.
I have never attended Golden Springs as a member but recently attended the Bible College on their grounds this past semester. If I were to contrast my home congregation with what I sensed at Golden Springs I would say that I detected a complacency and lax attitude for sin. Each time I left the Golden Springs campus I was hungry for my own church and fellowship from those who sat under the sam e pastor I did. Sometimes I would leave and immediately phone a friend in an attempt to cleanse myself from the contentious, abusive, corrupt, and manipulative individuals I came into cotact with either as a peer or someone who was a teacher or just a staff member.
I remember meeting one young lady who stood out among the group. She had a freshness and a life about her. She was actually happy and she was smiling. One of my first questions to her was, “You don’t attend here do you?” I was correct… she was from another fellowship.
Over the past few days I have been wanting to write the fellowship a letter… specifically those who I was in contact with in the Bible College. I believe the fellowship there is … “being weighed in the balance and found wanting…?” I believe that’s the correct passage for this context. They are missing love. They are spiritually dead I believe. They are the second Calvary Chapel to reach this verdict from me.
Perhaps God will do a new work in the future and Calvary Chapel’s will no longer be. He will do a new thing. I am looking forward to that!
ALEX,
Who are you?
You seem to be awfully lonely, and bitter. Find some friends.
Jessica, who are you? Do you wanna be friends?
Actually, I’m married with kids and have a ton of friends, I’m very social, life of the party as they say.
Not bitter, just disgusted with some stuff and not afraid to speak out about it.
Your comment was very judgmental and sounded bitter
Jessica,
Your question to Alex is curious, as this site explains alot of things, including giving a lot of information about who Alex is and is not.
So, did you ask it without being duly informed and is that the way you usually go about finding out things or do you just make a habit of driving by to drop an offense that is obviously founded upon anything except hot air.
Who am I—–a person who has also been a witness and subjected to similar offenses committed by CC leadership and a congregant. Am I bitter—not at all. More importantly, I am a Christian 24/7 who stands up against abuse and corruption in the church that I had attended for over 34 years.
I would invite you to spend time on this site and consider what we have shared. I would asked that you also follow through with the suggestions that have been offered. I would then encourage you to ask yourself, how is that you were brought to this site, then made the off handed remark you made to Alex. After that, I would then encourage you to share a little more your heart, your thoughts, and an apology to Alex and anyone else that has been abused in the manner that they were. For if you slack back from this, one then you are the same as having committed these things yourself. Its easy to keep your head in the sand. It ‘s difficult and heart breaking to gather the courage to speak out against abuse and corruption in order to warn and to hopefully provoke CC to repent and to understand by nature of the constructs of the Moses Model—it is not built on a solid biblical foundation, but rather that which is ready made for such offenses to be committed. God has told us that there is only one Moses and no other should follow in his footsteps, but rather set forth in the N.T. how a church should be formed and governed instead. WE are to submit one to another. WE are to hold one another to an account. WE are to be a church—-not a donor’s base to build a company inherited by the leaderships family members. The church belongs to God and all that is contributed is to be spent and invested in God’s kingdom, feeding, housing, educating, clothing, counseling, while enabling each person to exercise their gifts and talents, recognizing that each has the Holy Spirit and none has a special knowledge or understanding of God’s Word. As Paul have said, why is it that you have need for me to tell you these things over and over again. Why is it that you boast of yourselves, being tolerent of such that commit such offense (s). Why is it you count me (Alex/Us) as an enemy when we have told you the truth? Why is it that you continue to feed on milk when you ought to be taking in meat, teaching others.
Have you grown in your walk—if so how do you determine if you have. That you become more and more saturated with feeling “more” love base on what? For I tell you this, ignoring the leaven, the corruption, and the abuse is not a mark of mature Christian. It is a mark a person who drank the kool-aid instead and never looked beyond the messenger and the music. Just soaked up the good feelings and believed that God’s grace is to be used as a cover up for sin instead.
Having one of my moments—-the irony of it all. And we shall know them by their fruits.
Alex
ROTFLOL——-oh my goodness, in the midst of the seriousness of it all—Amen!
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It is an old, though still wise cliché, that if power corrupts then absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think abuse of power is an epidemic in CC leadership. In the early 80s I worked for a very, extremely small “Christian ” radio station and thus heard Raul’s teaching almost every day. I thought he sounded more than a bit controlling and egotistical even then. Don’t get me wrong; he’s an excellent kung fu master. Just not wholly suited to have authority over anyone.
My husband and I attended Calvary Chapel 2 weeks ago and I was amazed I loved everything about my experience my 10 year old son could not stop talking about it. I have only respect for Raul he has a gift and I am thankful to him and to the Lord for having the abiltiy to teach as he has taught me God Bless Raul and may the Lord continue to guide your path.
Re: “Linda Montes”
If you’ve only been to the church once, why would you be so bold as to post that you think it’s great on an abuse site where many say they’ve experienced serious problems?
Doesn’t sound very wise to me. At least look into what a Moses Model style leadership actually is so you can be informed and alert if there really are dangers as so many of us have experienced.
sniff, sniff, sniff …
About the “judging” and the financial discussion of this Pastor and other CC and affiliated Pastors. The reason discussion about their finances and expenditures is relevant and even incumbent upon Christians is because –> Calvary Chapel DOES NOT disclose church or denomination finances transparently to donors, attendees or others. Therefore, it is part of the Christian responsibility to look into the signs which are obvious. An $8K watch is something to note. Other prominent CC and CC affiliated Pastors have similar expensive watches (plural) and expensive sports cars. And houses. And vacations. And attend conferences all over the world. And more. Since they are using the money from “the flock” without accountability, the flock has the duty and right to observe, comment, and even question.
Me, is right, and aren’t I always, lol.
If you go to the website http://www.ecfa.org/ and search for calvary chapel in california you will be surprised to see are less than five CC’s as members of this Evangelical Financial Accountibility Organization. I am a five point calvinist and was shocked to see how they bash our segment of thie christian community on KWVE. I am bothered by this because such bashing on us, for what is basically a secondary idea that has no bearing on one’s salvation. I miss my old church grace community and john macarthur.
God bless you all and may you all have a discerning heart where you will be fed the word of our Heavenly Father
Stephan, yes they do bash you guys, sorry your not rapist, molesters, thieves, and money grabbing sinners perhaps than you would be in titled to grace.
Stephan, sorry I forgot child beaters, and suing parents.
Lorenza De La Llata says:
November 18, 2011 at 2:52 pm
Barrack Obama does not support gay marriage nor does he support abortions.
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LOL LOL LOL…you want to say that with a straight face again honey…the man has publicly come out for homosexual marriage and his votes on abortion are on record and clear. Clearly you are a koolaid drinker. The man also loathes Israel and is supporting er enemies with much cash and military equipment via the Muslim Brother hood. If you chose to side with those who are sworn enemies of God’s Chosen people , ones He swears He will defend, you shall reap His curses, You have His promise on that one.
James says:
January 1, 2013 at 3:03 am
And if God decides to bless him and he can afford a nice watch, who are you to question God.
____________
hmmmm…you DO realize Pastors money from the Church i.e tithes, i.e other folks money (unless they have an outside job), do you think they are tithing to buy a pastor an $8000 watch ? There is church here locally ( not a CC) where at Christmas time the congregants all chipped in to buy the WOF pastor a brand new Cadillac…his “ministry” also own an airplane. I suppose you think that is ” God’s blessing” as well ? I think Jesus would have much rather had those congregants chip in and collect $60K and give the money to some folks who need food, have children dying of cancer and are in need etc. But the Pastors Caddy was more important. But hey Praise the Lord !
AddisonDewitt said, “I think Jesus would have much rather had those congregants chip in and collect $60K and give the money to some folks who need food, have children dying of cancer and are in need etc.”
Big AMEN over here…
God will judge us for our avarice. We hoard will the world suffers.
I was saved thru Raul’s radio ministry in the late 1980′s, and I used to listen to him quite faithfully. However something has changed….Recently I was listening to him speak at a Calvary Chapel pastors and leaders conference where he said, “Outside of Calvary Chapel, you don’t get the Word of God”. This struck me like….is Calvary starting to act like a cult???
Raul’s a good guy. He is 100% into saving souls and when he says he was cured of cancer, I believe him. I was cured in the same manner of a skin disease. I don’t really understand how his church got so big.
He comes across as though he knows everything though which surprises me considering his low level of education. For some reason he says “you will never see your animal again after it dies”. This offended me and he sure as heck didnt care whose hopes he shot down. It’s not like he’s defending gays or anything. Couldnt he have just clammed up on the subject? And why would someone like Raul Ries knows he feel he knows so damn much???
On the positive side, his church is beautiful (too crowded though). I dont mind if he wears an expensive watch. Big deal, he doesnt push for money the way they do at other churches, demanding, & putting members on a guilt trip. They do not push for money at his church. Another thing I like about the pastor is that he tells girls to tone down their dress, dont show leg, feet, that sort of thing.
I think Pastor Matthew Barnet is better in some ways
Glenn: How does he explain away his Porshe Boxster?
Porshe Boxster seems hypocritical, especially after messages where he alleges that he doesn’t have healthcare or retirement and he says that no true pastor should get healthcare or retirement but should live by faith.
I have never met Ries even though I’ve attended his church for over a decade. BUT I have interacted with his staff. The general feeling is they are uptight and rude. Where are they learning this?
And (unfortunately) I’ve subjected myself to listening to Ries for just as many years, and he does not exude love or seems to be a man consumed by God’s grace. Actually there are many times when he insults people he interacts with (such as people at the gym) and he insults his wife. He seems to think that if you’re late to service, you’re not worthy of salvation. You need to stay home.
It’s up to you whether you want to support his ministry or not. But I’ve learned when the tree isn’t bearing fruit, it’s not a fruit tree, it’s a phony. You can spend your water, soil, and labor trying to nourish it, but it will never bear fruit.
Oh… I forgot something else about Ries that set off the phoney-baloney meter… ALEX!
Ries loves to get mileage that he was abused and beaten as a child. He loves to talk about what a sin his anger is and how he hates it.
BUT… he never stood up to Bob Grenier when he witnessed one of Alex’s brothers being beaten by Bob. (Alex, could you link the story, I don’t remember the details, it may have been Pastor Rosales, not Ries). BUT it doesn’t matter… gossip travels faster, even faster in a church. Ries should’ve been outraged. Ries had the power to do something, he is on CCV’s board (or was at one time).
What does Ries do?…. nothing. He ignores Alex. Never set up a meeting to iron things out. Never investigated the allegations. Covers the whole thing up, like it never existed.
C’mon everyone… give me a P!
Give me an H!
O!
N!
E!
Y!
Why depend on any man or woman concerning your walk with the Lord. Why not depend on the Holly Spirit to guide you on what you need to know for yourself. Raul is saved man of Jesus Christ and God is working.g on him the same as all of us. There is no such thing as perfection with any man. Only Jesus is perfect. The pastors of any of these churches are men like rest of us. They make sinfully mistakes like the rest of us. Stop depending on these people for your salvation and your walk with the Lord. Go read the Bible yourself and find out what the Holy Spirit is saying to you through Raul. He is just a messagenger for the Holy Spirit. Jimmy Swaggard sinned big time years ago. He openly admitted his mistakes. I forgave him. I give to his ministry every month. Their ministry is still going. Stop this about Raul. Pray and back him up. Let him read these comments. Maybe the Holy Spirit will let him see something about himself to keep changing fro Jesus Christ. Amen to God