What do the Calvary Chapels say about Affiliation, Denomination, Chuck Smith / CCCM’s connection etc?

 

It is clear that as Chuck Smith said from the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa pulpit recently that the “1500 plus” so-called purely “independent” Calvary Chapels out there…are not purely independent and do rely heavily on Chuck Smith and CCCM to draw people in through establishing credibility and Trust through their marketing efforts to connect themselves to both Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.

This thread will provide the opportunity for us to document what the Calvary Chapels promote and advertise on their websites, marketing materials, etc.

File under “Implied Agency”…

 Posted by at 7:51 am

  97 Responses to “What do the Calvary Chapels say about Affiliation, Denomination, Chuck Smith / CCCM’s connection etc?”

  1. New page up. What do so-called purely 100% “individual” Calvary Chapels say about their connections to Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa?

  2. (I’m reposting this from another thread)

    Brian Ewing on Calvary Fellowship Juneau (Alaska) also writes on his website:

    “If you would like to be a part of Calvary Fellowship, our only criteria for membership are: 1) Acknowledge Jesus as your Savior and follow Him as Lord 2) Attend faithfully and 3) Support Calvary through active involvement, and by giving regular tithes and offerings. If you are willing to do this, consider yourself a member.:

    I’d like to Sheck to tell me if this would be enough (“consider yourself a member”) for people in Brian Ewing’s fellowship to claim they were members in court, in a case where they were trying to hold the pastor accountable financially?

    I don’t know about all the states, but seems in many places if there’s membership (or even implied membership, maybe?) then the church leader(s) must open the financial books (full disclosure) to the congregation.

  3. I have heard many of Pastor Joe’s teachings.

    Calvary Chapel of Philadelphia website:

    Miles away from Costa Mesa, Calvary Chapel of Philadelphia was born in November, 1981. Pastor Joe Focht started a Bible study with 20 people. God has abundantly blessed the teaching of His Word as this small Bible study group multiplied into hundreds, and then into thousands.

    Today, some 8,000 adults attend Calvary Chapel of Philadelphia with over 4,000 children enrolled in our Sunday School ministry. In the same way that Calvary Chapel of Philadelphia was born out of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, we have also been blessed to witness the birth of an additional 20 Calvary Chapel Fellowships throughout the Delaware Valley area. Home fellowships and additional Bible Study groups have also begun in our area with the potential of giving rise to their own “Calvary Chapels”.

    “Born out of”….

  4. From David Rosales’ testimony-CCCV Website:

    About that time the mailman brought mail to his house and the Lord spoke clearly to him, Your letter is here. Getting the mail, he sat with it unopened at the dining room table praying, You know my desire to be a Calvary Chapel. But if it is not your will I accept that. David turned the letters over and the very first one was from Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa. He opened it and it was a letter from Pastor Chuck. His heart rejoiced as he read the words, Welcome to Calvary Chapel. That weekend, in January 1982, they became Calvary Chapel of Ontario. The church they had been renting also gave them an extension until March 28, 1982.

    “Welcome to Calvary Chapel”.. (Chuck Approved Chuck Invited??)

    Grateful, I see we are going to be very busy today. :)

  5. (Reposting from another thread)

    From Calvary Community Church Phoenix (Not called Calvary Chapel) website:

    A Calvary Chapel

    In 1984 Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, California invited Pastor Mark and the Calvary Community family to join the Calvary Chapel fellowship of churches. Pastor Chuck has often said, “Throughout the years we’ve seen God work in extraordinary ways. We’ve seen through this work that where God guides, God provides.”

    Don’t understand the “inviting” part…

  6. Not sure what “affiliation” means here
    What does it mean that they were “ready to be affiliated”?:

    Calvary Way Website (Don McClure)

    Back in 2002, I made my first mission trip to El Salvador simply to assist in affiliating a ministry that had been operating as a Calvary Chapel for a few years. Once there, it quickly became quite exciting as it became apparent I was there for much more. Not only were they ready to be affiliated, but they were already working on training pastors in their own school, planting churches and schools, and impacting their communities for Christ. The Lord used my time there to place a burden on my heart to assist them to expand their ministry which resulted in a major refocusing of my life and ministry for the future.

  7. Calvary Chapel Simi Valley was founded in January, 1990. We are part of a non-denominational fellowship of churches associated with Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa (Pastor: Chuck Smith). Worldwide, there are more than 600 Calvary Chapels, with seven in Ventura county.

    Each Calvary Chapel is an independent, autonomous church

    Associated..Affiliated?

  8. Just think what all this implies. If each church is actually independent, and does not have any legal membership, then the people who attend these CCs donate their money to senior pastors who literally own the property, and have full control of the bank account. If that is not a scam, I don’t know what is.

    I attended a CC for nearly ten years before I realized this was how things worked. I left for many reasons but this was one of the major ones. I would never knowingly give my tithes and offerings to an organization with that little financial oversight. We can all see why there are so many instances of financial impropriety being reported here.

    In the next several months, we may see some hard evidence that supports what I am saying here. You would have to believe that Chuck Smith and his other SP pals are saints to trust them that much with that much money. I certainly don’t.

  9. Brain Ewing, pastor of Calvary Fellowship Juneau (Alaska) writes on his website:

    “We are not a denominational fellowship, rather inter-denominational. We are in fellowship with over 600 other Calvarys that have sprung up since the Jesus movement of the 70s.”

    Interdenominational caught my eye.

    in·ter·de·nom·i·na·tion·al (ntr-d-nm-nsh-nl)
    adj.
    Of or involving different religious denominations.

    This begs the question of what different denominations are the other Calvary Chapels?

  10. Re: Hannah @ 4 said,

    “Grateful, I see we are going to be very busy today. :)

    LOL! Your posts about this made me curious.

  11. Grateful@#2“If you would like to be a part of Calvary Fellowship, our only criteria for membership are: 1) Acknowledge Jesus as your Savior and follow Him as Lord 2) Attend faithfully and 3) Support Calvary through active involvement, and by giving regular tithes and offerings.

    There is no membership at CC’s, yet this church lists their “ONLY CRITERIA” for membership (which by the way includes not one but 3 criteria!)…..something wrong right away!
    Maybe they just made an honest mistake?
    They need to back this up with scripture!

  12. Many of the websites include the “Statement of Faith” below.

    My questions:
    1. How is this a statement of faith? (Where’s the doctrinal stances?)
    2. It’s verbatim on the websites I’ve read, so does this show there’s a “starter kit” given to newly affiliated CC pastors?

    *************************
    Statement of Faith

    We Believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is His (agape) love, which is greater than any differences we possess and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians.

    We Believe worship of God should be Spiritual.
    Therefore: We remain flexible and yielded to the Holy Spirit to direct our worship.

    We Believe worship of God should be Inspirational.

    Therefore: We give a great place to music in our worship.

    We Believe worship of God should be Intelligent.
    Therefore: Our services are designed with great emphasis upon teaching of the Word of God that He might instruct us how He should be worshipped.

    We Believe worship of God is Fruitful.
    Therefore: We look for His love in our lives as the supreme manifestation that we have truly been worshipping Him.

  13. Re: Hannah @ 11

    My question is can an elderly person, a person with a long term illness, or an unemployed person be a member?

    They may not be able to be actively involved, attend regularly, or give financially.

    It looks like someone meant well, but maybe it’s their inexperience showing through.

  14. I am an unashamed follower of Jesus Christ. I love him dearly. I also love his Church. I hold to some carefully thought out creeds and doctrinal positions. I know what I believe, and am also aware that I must be humble about that because I still could be taught more and refine my understandings of scripture. So I do not think my flavor of church is necessarily superior or above someone elses. What I will fight very passionately about is defense of Jesus in every respect. I do believe he is a saint, and very God. He alone is worthy of my praise. I stopped worshipping pastors long ago. I don’t want to be guilty of idolatry.

    I say all the above as a preface to this. I am quite embarrased to be associated with so many christian followers who check their minds at the door, and worship only with their hearts. Most of the defenders of Chuch Smith and CC who are taking shots at Alex in response to the ‘damage’ this blog is causing, have not read and thought deeply enough to fully know the full ranging issues that are being discussed here. I just read a thread on Alex’s FB where a defender of Smith pointedly suggested that Alex go ‘old school’ and persistantly call Smith until the issue gets resolved. Duh! Where has this guy been? His comments are pure foolishness. I don’t question his sincere desire to see this problem solved but he is like 98% of all the CCers that first jump to protect their pastor before they even thoroughly consider the accusations and the evidence that is being put forward to establish it. Without this blog (and some others), no one would have been aware of a fraction of all this. Alex is sitting on a mountain of information that is potentially more damaging than what you have read so far. I don’t think you can say at this point that his reporting has been far off the mark. I almost immediately dismiss any comment from someone who is not concerned to look carefully at the evidence before they level some diatribe that seeks to question someones character.

  15. Hannah…”There is no membership at CC’s, yet this church lists their “ONLY CRITERIA” for membership (which by the way includes not one but 3 criteria!)…..something wrong right away!
    Maybe they just made an honest mistake?
    They need to back this up with scripture!”

    They need to understand the English language first. Words have meanings, and context supports many ideas. This thread will support the anti-intellectualism I hinted at above. 1500 fellowships with varying statements. Can they really be trusted with the teaching of Scripture?

  16. WA..I “amen” your post.
    Yes, people go on blogs and make comments without spending the year or more gathering the facts that have been laid out here. How can they possibly catch up to all the information. In a way, you can’t blame them.

    My profession includes research so I am on the computer a lot of the time.
    To those of us “called” to this ministry, we get it.
    To the others, it is just a “bleep” sound bite in their hectic lives.

  17. Grateful-You are right about the statements of faith.
    The “we believe” seems to be “we” as in “Calvary Chapels”, not “we” as in “this church”.
    It is obvious to anyone who has been part of CC’s, that the “we” is Calvary Chapels” aka Chuck Smith.
    I think most people would acknowledge that.

    Your #12. If you carefully read those “we believe’s”, and then the “therefore’s”, it is very juvenile.

  18. Grateful@My question is can an elderly person, a person with a long term illness, or an unemployed person be a member?

    You mean, “non-membership” membership?
    Not according to Calvary Fellowship Juneau!
    And remember, this person also has to be actively involved there!

  19. This may be off-topic, and I don’t remember any discussion here about it, but does anyone have any thoughts on that radio whow where Chuck Smith gave the advice to the woman considering abortion of her conjoined twins? It came to mind yesterday with hearing Alex’s radio show.

  20. WA-Can they really be trusted with the teaching of Scripture?

    Good question.
    I had thought that one of the criteria for being a CC was expository teaching.
    My old CC had allegorical teaching, not expository.
    Would that have disqualified them from affiliation? ;)

  21. OK WA- now I see the context of “can they be trusted”…

    If they can’t even make their statement of faith grammatically correct…
    But how many would even notice?

    Offline for awhile….

  22. You get it Hannah. If I am accused of speaking in parables, then blame Jesus. He is my mentor.

  23. This is a huge church in Sac I went to occasionally at one time. I was never sure exactly what its connection, if any, was to CC. I know of no abuses there and am just listing this for informational purposed only. There’s probably a bunch of churches out there under different names that have some sort of CC connection/affiliation without overtly carrying the CC name. Anyway, I did a little research and guess what?

    In a church directory:
    “The Warehouse Christian Ministries church is located in Sacramento, CA and is part of the Calvary Chapel denomination of churches.”

    Warehouse Christian Ministries Website:
    “Believing in the clear calling of God, Louis and Mary (Neely) continued the Bible Study, with the support of a few Christian businessmen who shared the vision. Mary had been following the ‘Jesus Movement’ in Southern California. In short order, Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa flew to Sacramento to meet with Louis. He dedicated the new building, a ‘Warehouse’ that the Bible Study met in. Warehouse Christian Ministries officially opened its doors on April 28, 1974.”

  24. Re: Lone Ranger @ 23,

    “… part of the Calvary Chapel denomination of churches.”

    So they think they are in a denomination. Interesting.

    It sounds like Chuck was proactive in “acquiring” them?

  25. #23 In short order, Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa flew to Sacramento to meet with Louis. He dedicated the new building, a ‘Warehouse’ that the Bible Study met in. Warehouse Christian Ministries officially opened its doors on April 28, 1974.”

    “In short order”….now thats a new one..
    He ‘dedicated the new building”.
    What does that mean?
    Are we supposed to dedicate buildings?
    And if he is the “dedicator”, is that almost like the Godfather? ;)

  26. I just had a feeling that a whole lotta websites may be tweaked…..

  27. PS. Dedicating…
    I know that in the OT there was a dedicating of the temple, thus the tradition of the re-dedicating of the temple after the Maccabees( Hannukah), but I guess I have to now research whether churches are dedicated…

  28. From Calvary Chapel the Woodlands website:

    People would move from Calvary Chapel to other areas of the United States looking for fellowships similar to Calvary. They were often discouraged in their endeavor to find a church and would start sending for tapes and many times begin to invite their friends to come over and listen to the tapes. Soon a group would be meeting together listening to tapes. Their fellowship would grow, and they would write and ask for someone to be sent to pastor. As a result, Calvary Chapels have expanded to over 1400 national and international churches in affiliation. In addition, Calvary Chapel’s Bible College has over 100 campus locations.

    There’s that pesky “A” word again!

    Also, they would write and be “sent” a Pastor?
    From where?

  29. Oh no, not again!

    Calvary Chapel Plano Texas:

    Calvary Chapel is a non-denominational fellowship. It is affiliated with Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, California.
    In the Dallas area, Calvary Chapel was started by a group of people who had heard Chuck Smith, pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, on radio. It began as a home Bible Study with the group listening to Chuck Smith’s tapes. Upon determining that they wanted to form a church, they contacted Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa concerning their desire for a pastor. As a result, Bill Philipp, from San Bernardino, California, felt God call him and his wife to Dallas to start Calvary Chapel in 1980.

  30. You guys are AWESOME! :smile:

  31. Calvary Chapel of Hope (NY):

    I attended an East Coast Leader’s Conference where Pastor Chuck and a number of other Calvary Chapel Bible teachers taught. The conference was totally different from anything I had experienced before. It was a feast in the word of God and an outpouring of the Spirit in worship. I knew then that it was only a matter of time before I too was in a Calvary Chapel type of ministry. I spoke to pastor Chuck about planting a Calvary on Long Island, trusting the Lord to lead through this godly spiritual man. The word’s, (which I am sure are so familiar to other Calvary pastor’s) received from pastor Chuck were, “Go for it!” With those words I phoned my wife and told her we were “going.” It was only a matter of “When?”

    Tell me when you want me to stop!

  32. Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale website:

    The first Calvary Chapel was started in Costa Mesa, California, in the 1960’s, as a small nondenominational church of 25 members, pastored by Chuck Smith. The Lord blessed that small group, and now Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa is home to 30,000 believers and has planted 850 churches in North America and almost 200 churches in South America, Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia.

    Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa “planting” churches?
    As in “affiliation”?

  33. I am posting this because It is very similar to the one above…

    Calvary Chapel Cardunal

    In the late 1960s, the first Calvary Chapel was started in Costa Mesa, California, as a small nondenominational church of 25 members, pastored by Chuck Smith. The Lord blessed that small group, and now Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa is home to some 30,000 believers.

    From the beginning, Calvary Chapel has been focused on leading people to Christ and discipling them so that they can go out into the world and lead others. The Lord has blessed this commitment, and Calvary Chapel has grown to 850 churches in North America and almost 200 churches in South America, Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia.

  34. Oh Hannah stop! You are putting too many pieces of the puzzle together. Let someone else have a turn. lol

  35. WA-lol :)

    Can I put another??? ;)

    Calvary Chapel East Anahein has a curious photo of Smith on one of their slides that reads” Sanctuary dedication with Chuck Smith.”

    There is a photo with Chuck speaking into a microphone.

    I have never really spent much time researching other CC’s
    I have to say some of them sit on some really nice properties with a lot of acreage.

    I kind of get tired reading in the bio’s:
    “I felt called”
    “The Lord led me”
    “I was led”
    with “his direction”
    “as the Lord leads”
    “The Lord changed the name of the church”
    “The Lord placed the desire”
    “The Lord has done amazing things”

    When people speak on this blog, I never hear them preface everything they say this way.
    It just seems so contrived.
    And almost like a sales pitch…catch phrases.

    Do you ever read these things on Baptist, Reformed, churches?
    Has this kind of jargon started with the CC movement?

  36. Hannah, interesting observation.

    It makes sense. The CC Chuck Smith Dynamic is that the Lord speaks to the Chuck Smith Anointed CC SP’s and that every action, thought, decision is a direct revelation from God or something similar.

    Funny how God never or rarely says “NO” to these guys or ever or rarely “calls” them to something difficult that they don’t want to do…or “leads” them to swallow their pride, be honest and do the right thing, even if it’s difficult and might cost them some money in a lawsuit, etc…

    Pretty convenient how God always seems to “Lead” them in the stuff they want to do…and always seems to “tell” them the stuff they want to hear.

  37. Alex-Yes…..The Lord seems to always be in agreement with everything that would profit them.

    I had a hard time reading through all those bio’s.

    I was wondering what kind of influence John Macarthur had on your dad.
    He’s not your “run of the mill” kind of Pastor.

  38. By the way, that new icon is much more threatening than the other skinny shirtless guy!

  39. When Chino Hills was being built those about town at first thought it was going to be a luxury hotel. In fact the pastor joked about it from the pulpit, and commented how blessed they were to have such an amazing place to worship.

  40. Calvary Chapel Leesburg, Virginia:

    ” … first full-time pastor beginning in January, 1991.”

    “The Lord has continued to build His church, adding hundreds of families and single adults to our fellowship. In May, 1994, we became affiliated with Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, CA. This affiliation has served to make us accountable to a credible ministry while still allowing us to maintain our independent, non-denominational status. ”

    Most notable is they are telling their congregation that they are ACCOUNTABLE:

    “This affiliation has served to make us accountable to a credible ministry…”

  41. Oops … Calvary Chapel Leesburg, Virginia is actually called Cornerstone Chapel.

  42. Re: my #23:

    When doing a Google search of Warehouse Ministries in Roseville, CA (northeast of Sac), something very interesting happens. After you click on their website, you’re automatically redirected to Restoration Church in Roseville. Same thing happens when you do a search WITHIN their site. At any rate, the opening page to the right has these words: “NEW NAME, NEW PASTOR, NEW START.” Although I hope this isn’t indicative of a CC direct or indirect fallout that entailed hurt for people, something just doesn’t seem right. Don’t know how much longer that will appear on their website. I wish someone else could give this a try, so it could be verified and I’d know I’m not seeing things! Not sure if this may represent a recently loosely disaffiliated CC via the Warehouse subsystem.

    There are apparently OTHER Warehouse ministries in the greater Sacramento area….Rancho Cordova, Rocklin, and Elk Grove. To the best of my recollection, the Warehouse in Sac was the only one in existence once upon a time. My question is: did this CC offshoot eventually turn around and start its own offshoots? Since Sacramento’s Warehouse Ministries admits CC Chuck Smith connections within its site, are the other Warehouses similarly connected, loosely connected, non-connected connected, affiliated but not affiliated?…..Ah, come on, you guys know what I mean! Someone please translate Calvary Chapelese for me.

    Or can someone that’s still in Sac do a shout-out and simply say, “Yeah” or “Nah”?

  43. Warehouse Ministries is Louis Neely, a very good guy. The dynamic is not much diffrrent than what you saw ans see happening with Harvest, Horizon Christian Fellowship, Refuge, Warehouse. They are chuchbplants springing from those churches.

  44. Re: Not Alone @ 42

    I googled Warehouse Ministries in Roseville, CA. I found a warehouse church at this web address: http://warehouseministries.org/index.html

    Location:
    Warehouse Christian Ministries
    9933 Business Park Drive
    Sacramento, CA 95827

    Is this Roseville?

  45. No, Roseville is a community up Interstate 80 East about 20-30 minutes from Sacramento if I recall correctly.

    Not making any judgments on Neely but was wondering about the offshoots.

  46. Let me try again …

  47. Okay, I clicked on this site:

    Home (Warehouse Christian Ministries – CA)
    http://www.wcmr.org/Cached – Similar
    Not helpful? You can block http://www.wcmr.org results when you’re signed in to search.www.wcmr.org
    – Block all http://www.wcmr.org results
    You +1′d this publicly. Undo
    Life Groups · Ministry Teams · Volunteer. Kids. Our Vision … Happening at Warehouse… View Full Calendar … Roseville, California 95747. Tel: (916) 960-1700 ..

    *********************
    Then I was redirected to this site: http://www.restorationroseville.com/

    It is as you say, “Restoration Church” that says,

    ” * new name
    * new pastor
    * new start “

  48. I got one stuck in moderation.

    Lone Ranger, YES, I had the same experience as you and was redirected to Restoration Church. I have the links I used in my last post in moderation.

  49. Grateful,

    Thanks for trying. I kind of thought somethings was up with the changes on that site. It makes me wonder if there will be name and other changes for CC’s affilitates in an effort to distance themselves….

  50. From Calvary Chapel of Nashua Website

    Calvary Chapel of Nashua is an affiliate church of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. For over 40 years Calvary Chapels have been distinctly characterized by contemporary worship, verse by verse teaching of the whole Bible, and by the Love of the people of God

  51. From Calvary Chapel Little Rock Colorado’s Website:

    Welcome to Calvary Chapel Castle Rock in Colorado!
    Calvary Chapel Castle Rock Church is an affiliate ministry of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.

  52. Calvary Chapel Castle Rock is known for it’s many guns in small building. Lot’s of hurt folks coming out of there.

  53. Grateful,
    ????

  54. So what does the “affiliate church”, “affiliate Ministry” of Costa Mesa actually mean?

  55. Calvary Chapel Bangor Website: (Ken Graves)

    In 1996, with the financial support of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, California, Calvary Chapel Bangor established a full power radio station: WJCX / 99.5 FM, and Ken Graves radio program “Godsword” went on the air. Listeners from all around central Maine started tuning in to the Calvary Satellite Network to hear Ken and a host of other pastors offering up a feast of God’s word. The radio station has truly been a powerful tool in preaching the Gospel of Christ, making disciples and equipping people with Biblical knowledge. It has been a tremendous blessing to Calvary Chapel people as well as to the many other Bible believing churches in the area.

  56. Calvary Chapel Talahassee website:

    Calvary Chapel Tallahassee is an affiliate church of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, pastored by Chuck Smith. Chuck Smith founded Calvary Chapel in the late 60′s during a time when most traditional churches were turning away the next generation because of the length of their hair and the counter-culture lifestyle which they practiced. Driven by a burden for that generation, Chuck reached out to them with love and understanding and without compromise of Christian principles. A result of this outreach was the birth of the “Jesus Movement.”

  57. Calvary Chapel Fort Smith Arkansas Website:

    While many different kinds of people attend and pastor Calvary Chapel affiliated churches, all of the Calvary Chapel leadership (men such as Raul Ries, Greg Laurie, Mike MacIntosh, Jeff Johnson, Jon Courson, Skip Heitzig, Don McClure, and Steve Mays) agree on the essential elements of this summary. Yet, their individual styles of ministry, methods of preaching, and visions for outreach vary greatly.

  58. Calvary Chapel Burbank:
    (not “affiliation” but “fellowship”

    About Calvary Chapel

    Calvary Chapel Burbank is in fellowship with Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, founded by Pastor Chuck Smith.

  59. Hey Motel…are you there?

    If these CC’s are saying they are affiliated with CCCM, and they are not, isn’t there a legal issue here?

  60. This is the first that says “Outreach Fellowship”

    It is a joy to introduce you to Calvary Chapel of Western Massachusetts which is an Outreach Fellowship of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, California.

  61. Hannah: “If these CC’s are saying they are affiliated with CCCM, and they are not, isn’t there a legal issue here?”

    It’s also possible that everybody is thoroughly confused about what exactly they “signed up for.”

    Or at worst, it might be deceptive advertising.

    CCCM’s own Finding a Church list says the following

    All Calvary Chapel churches are independent of one another (not a denomination). Some do not even bear the name of Calvary Chapel but all are connected by the fellowship and like-mindedness of the men who serve as their senior pastors.

    It makes sound like, when it’s all boiled down, the whole system is merely a big fancy private club for “like-minded” senior pastors and nothing more.

    Who knows? It may require a court of law to thresh this mess out.

  62. Oops. Sorry. In #61 above, I pasted in the wrong URL and got the link wrong. CCCM’s church list is really here.

  63. Re: Hannah @ 53

    Yes, I’m aware of a few CC’s where guns are used as intimidation devices. I’ve heard stories from the churches, and the ones that have come out of the Castle Rock one were corroborated by some of the men on the “intimidation team” – oh, I mean “security team” – along with the victim’s stories.

    I’m aware of more stories from other CC’s, as well, but the most corroborated stories I know of have come from the Castle Rock Calvary Chapel. It must be a theme in Colorado, because the other ones I’ve heard the most about have come from that region, as well.

  64. Gratedul,@ It must be a theme in Colorado, because the other ones I’ve heard the most about have come from that region, as well.

    It must be because of all the hunting there. ;)

  65. In my last CC, men on the “security team” actually quit after one particularly intimidating meeting where they had to provide the intimidation for a man they believed was innocent. The pastor did not use Mt. 18 in approaching this man, refused to hear the man’s response to the accusations against him, and never produced any form of evidence or name any of his so-called accuser(s). The security team was demoralized after that. No one really believed the man was guilty, but even if he had been somehow, the pastor’s handling of the situation was terrible. Of the people I know, they either left, or they are still there but they are communicating their disgust and wondering what to do. They have started processing the truth and the veil has been lifted so they can see more and more.

    I’m not sure the pastor, or his assistant, have any clue just how much the seams are beginning to unravel … mostly because they only unravel for those who’ve been there for awhile and in the meantime new people file in because they trust the brand name: Calvary Chapel. They trust the product and trust there is accountability since they are not “independent.” They don’t know there is no accountability and that they claim to be independent.

  66. Re: @ 64

    It’s also probably because of the church shootings that have taken place there. And because the cowboys can still wear their gun in a holster and walk down the street. It’s still WILD out West! ;)

  67. they trust the brand name: Calvary Chapel

    You hit the nail on the head.
    It is like going to China in the 70′s.
    You felt “at home” when you would see a MacDonalds there.
    Those golden arches meant you were “home”.
    Same with the dove.

  68. H@67: “Same with the dove.”

    I’ve said above at #61

    It makes it sound like, when it’s all boiled down, the whole system is merely a big fancy private club for “like-minded” senior pastors and nothing more.

    I said in a different thread

    Regardless of how he might have operated in the past, let us concede for the sake of argument the following: that all what Chuck says is very much true with regard to the current state of affairs.

    I think this would mean the following:

    (1) The CCOF provides nothing more than simply a fancy but informal club to facilitate “like-minded” senior pastors getting together to hobnob or “fellowhip” with each other. Otherwise, they are all entirely independent. Membership in the club does have the following perks: (a) being listed at the CC website, (b) getting invitations to conferences, (c) being pals with famous celebrity pastors, (d) being able to put up the cookie-cutter dove, and (e) absorbing the CC cachet.

    (2) There are no legally binding “affiliation” agreements, which is to say there are no agreements that entail any legally binding obligations or liability. And anything like that which might have existed in the past is now null and void.

    (3) Chuck Smith, CCCM, and CCOF exercise no oversight over any of the club members.

    (4) Neither Chuck Smith nor his corporations have any responsibility for anything the members do. Nor do they have any resulting liability.

    Thinking over things, I had a moment of enlightenment, a feeling of “eureka” swept over me.

    Earlier I had tried to describe the CC system as a “falling-apart empire of loosely confederated satrapies in various states of order or decay.” But this is really not the best way to describe what’s going on.

    It occured to me that at one level Chuck Smith really was speaking the cold sober truth all along. There is no “affliation.” There isn’t any oversight. He really doesn’t have control. Nada. It does not exist. It never existed.

    I know some will stagger at this because it seems paradoxical, but in one sense there are really no Calvary Chapel “churches.” Let me explain what I mean. because it will be difficult for many to break out of the mindset that mistakenly supposes that the Chuck’s
    CC system is somehow like a “denomination”. It never was. It was never designed that way.

    Go back and re-read carefully what the Finding a Church List is saying

    All Calvary Chapel churches are independent of one another (not a denomination). Some do not even bear the name of Calvary Chapel but all are connected by the fellowship and like-mindedness of the men who serve as their senior pastors.

    It hit me just today. This is the key: the connection. All that Chuck Smith has been running all these years is a private club, pure and simple. Let me emphasize that. It is nothing more than a club. That is the sole connection that anything ever had. The nearest analogy would be something maybe like a “sports club” where chums get together to play golf or racket ball or to lift weights—or like those clubs where very rich men sit together in expensive cushioned chairs reading the WSJ and smoking expensive cigars and drinking congnac and talking about which stocks and congressmen they own. The only difference here are the membership requirements, but otherwise the essense of the thing is basically the same. Like all clubs, Chuck’s club has its own perks, some of which I mentioned above. And the members must be exclusively “like-minded” senior pastors. This means, most of all, that Chuck Smith has to like you for you join his club. And it turns out, the more you are like Chuck, the more he will take you up as one of his pals. Are you the supreme pastor-monarch in your church? Are you a dispensationalist? Are you leery of most things charismatic? Do you think Calvin might have had his head screwed on too tight? Do you eschew topical preaching?

    If yes, then Chuck just might like you and let you in his “outreach fellowship” club. You might get to hobnob with Chuck and other celebrities as one of the fellows at a conference.

    Now if an attender sees a “dove” nailed up above the pulpit in place he attends, it means only one thing and one thing only: the pastor is simply asserting his membership in the club, that he is one of Chuck Smith’s pals. However, the dove guarantees absolutely nothing else, and everybody has been confused in thinking that somehow it ever did. The pastor is most definitely not under Chuck Smith’s oversight, not in any way similiar to what most people would call “denominational oversight”. Chuck exercises no control over what happens in the place you attend. And in fact, the “dove” isn’t even owned by you the congregation. It belongs exclusively to the pastor as a kind of membership badge, and nothing more. In a sense, the church you attend isn’t really a “CC church,” because when considered as a congregation, it actually doesn’t belong to anything; it isn’t even “affliated” with anything. In one sense, when considered qua church, it is not even a “Calvary Chapel”. Only the pastor belongs to the anything—the club. The only “Calvary Chapel” that can be said to actually exist is the one in Costa Mesa. Everything else can be considered as a kind of “misleading advertising” to lure you in using the “dovish cachet” or the “brand name aroma.”

    If the pastor-monarch somehow gets himself booted out—say because, for example, he just got sent to prison for a felony conviction—the “dove” goes with him. That’s why Chuck can threaten to yank a dove from a church when its board gives out too stingy of a severance package, because the “dove” never belonged to them to begin with.

    This morning I described to a minister friend of mine all of these matters, and how I thought the system actually worked. He looked at me and marveled, and said that what Chuck Smith had constructed was truely “brilliant,” to use his word. If there was ever a way to extend your influence as widely as possible but with the least amount of problems or responsibilities, Chuck has discovered the way to do it.

  69. Iggy said, “If there was ever a way to extend your influence as widely as possible but with the least amount of problems or responsibilities, Chuck has discovered the way to do it.”

    Except he really hasn’t. He’ll be tested in Court strongly, and he’ll probably lose the argument. He can’t change history, the public record or the Laws of Implied Agency nor can he change his past and recent actions where he did exercise control and influence.

    He’s merely been unchallenged…but Kosnoff (and others) are going to change all that. It’s going to be an expensive lesson in the coming years for the Chuck Smith and CCCM.

  70. Alex@69: “He’s merely been unchallenged”

    I agree. Like I said elsewhere, the next genuine watershed moment will be in the courts.

    We will have to wait and see.

  71. From a Spiritual Perspective, Chuck Smith is guilty as hell.

    Bob Grenier and pretty much a large majority of the CC SP’s call Chuck Smith “Pastor”.

    For example, Bob Grenier calls Chuck “pastor” in his book, which Chuck agrees having written the Foreword to it and endorsed it. Chuck takes the microphone from Bob’s pulpit after being introduced as “My Pastor Chuck Smith”, Bob touts it on his website, etc.

    Yet, Chuck Smith lies through his teeth in the “meeting” and said directly to me “I am not Bob’s Pastor!”

    Liar.

    Chuck doesn’t want to take responsibility when it’s hard, yet loves taking credit when it suits him…like when he gets paid money to speak at Calvary Chapel Visalia…then he has no problem agreeing to “My Pastor!”

    Chuck Smith is a liar and is dodging his Scriptural responsibility.

  72. Alex@71: “For example, Bob Grenier calls Chuck “pastor” in his book, which Chuck agrees having written the Foreword to it and endorsed it. Chuck takes the microphone from Bob’s pulpit after being introduced as “My Pastor Chuck Smith”, Bob touts it on his website, etc.”

    As I said, lots of what goes on is misleading advertising. So I am not surprised that the pals in the club sometimes, in front of the crowds, are slapping each other on the back telling each other how wonderful they are; it’s part of what’s given out for the public to consume.

    Alex@71: “Chuck Smith is a liar and is dodging his Scriptural responsibility.”

    Please understand, Alex, I am not trying to justify things. I am simply trying to understand what Chuck Smith is thinking and how he views what he is doing. I personally think his priorities have gotten pretty twisted up, or so it appears to me. I think I’ve made that pretty clear elsewhere. Remember when I pointed out that Acton said: “power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” I think that once again, Acton has been proven true. And sadly, in Chuck Smith’s case as well.

    Neither you nor I are lawyers, so we can’t say with an expertness how things will finally turn out. But I suspect that Chuck’s Waterloo will be the “implied agency” issue, because he’s basically never done anything to stop the “false advertising” everybody does that’s created the expectations of trust that people naturally acquire when some pastor touts himself as being “CC affiliated”. If anything, Chuck promotes it, because (let’s be honest about it) it really brings in the green stuff in a variety of ways.

  73. Follow the ‘greenbacks’. They tell an interesting story. I’m hearing a pattern of sins…worldliness, idolatry, and pride. God’s ‘anointed’ sure don’t have the same appearance as the God I know.

  74. Alex@71: “Bob Grenier and pretty much a large majority of the CC SP’s call Chuck Smith “Pastor”…Chuck Smith is a liar and is dodging his Scriptural responsibility.

    When pastor X calls Chuck Smith “my pastor,” it seems odd to me that everyone becomes indignant to discover that in actual practice Smith doesn’t fulfill that function. But I think this response comes from the mistake of assuming that all this “pastor over other pastors” nonsense was ever true to begin with, and that the problem was just one of getting Chuck Smith to fulfill the expectations everyone had of him.

    I guess what I am saying, in different words, is that none of this stuff was ever true at all and much of what goes on and gets said is just part of the “misleading advertising” put out there to create an illusion of a “denomination” where there is none. When CC’s print that boilerplate preamble in their church bulletins saying they are not a “denomination,” in a manner of speaking they are absolutely right. Why is anybody surprised to discover this?

    If anything, what I am in effect saying is that the system is a bigger lie than even what Alex imagines. In other words, on one level the CC system was basically a humbug or sham from the get go. Chuck created this “private club” of his (run by his CCOF corporation) as a means of evading responsibility while collecting all the benefits. This is a feature and not a bug, as the threadbare saying goes.

    I have already said elsewhere, the next watershed will be when the courts finally get around to threshing this mess out. I wish I could be on the jury that hears the Kosnoff case. It would be very interesting to hear Chuck Smith get cross-examined.

  75. I was thinking of “Franchises” when I mentioned McDonalds.

    Calvary Chapels are very much like franchises, except you don’t “buy” it but in a way you do, because you have to agree to the terms of the “image” of that franchise.
    I am not so sure the “big guys” in the early “franchises” didn’t get a lot of help from CCCM to get them going.,…to get the “brand” out there.

    The Logo is such an important part of the franchise…er.. I mean Calvary.
    The Dove symbolizing that this Pastor is in agreement with the “movement”..er..I mean “denomination…er I mean “non-denomination denomination”

    All thsoe poor kids who used to have to wear their “sunday best” that can now come “just as you are”..what a great strategy…Madison Avenue couldn’t do it any better.
    It sure worked when Lonnie Frisbee came on the scene.

    I remember when I used to look at the Logo and wonder why the dove was nosediving.
    It just seemed like an awkward position.
    Now I know why.

  76. From Wiki Re: Franchises
    Interesting similarities-See “coventant” used

    Franchising is the practice of using another firm’s successful business model. The word ‘franchise’ is of anglo-French derivation – from franc- meaning free, and is used both as a noun and as a (transitive) verb.[1] For the franchisor, the franchise is an alternative to building ‘chain stores’ to distribute goods and avoid investment and liability over a chain. The franchisor’s success is the success of the franchisees. The franchisee is said to have a greater incentive than a direct employee because he or she has a direct stake in the business.

    Except in the US, and now in China (2007) where there are explicit Federal (and in the US, State) laws covering franchise, most of the world recognizes ‘franchise’ but rarely makes legal provisions for it. Only Australia, various provinces within Canada, France and Brazil have significant Disclosure laws but Brazil regulates franchises more closely.

    Where there is no specific law, franchise is considered a distribution system, whose laws apply, with the trademark (of the franchise system) covered by specific covenants.

    Overview

    Businesses for which franchising work best have one or several of the following characteristics:
    A good track record of profitability.
    Easily duplicated.
    Detailed systems, processes and procedures.
    Around a unique or unusual concept.
    Broad geographic appeal.
    Relatively easy to operate.
    Relatively inexpensive to operate.

    As practiced in retailing, franchising offers franchisees the advantage of starting up quickly based on a proven trademark, and the tooling and infrastructure as opposed to developing them.

  77. Please read the first paragraph again from the last…CC seems to really be a franchise.
    It is free and it avoids liability over a “chain”.
    IF Smith had a “chain”..he owns them all, there would be liability.
    But since CC is a franchise, he escapes liability for the other “franchises”.
    Very interesting..
    Now if this was not carefully planned…we need to give him more credit than we have.

  78. PS..Been pondering this”
    Where there is no specific law, franchise is considered a distribution system, whose laws apply, with the trademark (of the franchise system) covered by specific covenants.

  79. Hannah

    interesting stuff. When Ray Duran (former pastor of CC Rathdrum, ID) started his CC he placed an ad in the paper and had 75 people the very first Sunday! Sounds like McD’s to me.

  80. Re: Iggy @ 74 said,

    ” … much of what goes on and gets said is just part of the “misleading advertising” put out there to create an illusion of a “denomination” where there is none.”

    Correct. In the beginning there is the illusion of a denomination, followed by recognizing that they say they are independent; but the actions of the pastor continue to create the illusion of a denomination.

    The biggest illusion is that there is accountability. Some CC church websites actually say this, or allude to it, and pastors have been known to say it out loud … as in our case.

  81. Franchise is a good definition of CC. However, I hesitate to throw all CC pastor’s into this lot. Chuck Smith included – at least at the start. I think that he is a man who genuinely started out to build the kingdom of God for his savior, but got waylaid by the flesh and the world. It is so hard to continue in Christ when the fragrance of wealth alluring and seducing the soul – in affluent southern California especially. A word study on seduction shows that it is self-induced and quite voluntary. Riches or the hint of the promise of riches seduce. And the flesh too often cooperates. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” This is a dire warning that all should heed. Not that all riches preclude heaven, but that it is extremely difficult for a rich man. With every seduction comes a loss and Chuck Smith, like Solomon, has suffered loss commensurate with an increase in his earthly wealth. Loss of the kingdom of God? God knows and is more forgiving in Christ that we can measure. As his life comes to the final chapter, only Chuck and God know his heart. But, in the end, I will not be surprised to meet Chuck in heaven – as a man with a contrite heart grateful for the grace and forgiveness of his Savior.

  82. Excerpt from Calvary Chapel Southeast Portland, Oregon:
    Found here:
    http://www.ccseportland.com/Body-Life-Series/we-are-the-sheep-of-his-pasture.html

    “I really appreciate the example that Pastor Chuck Smith has been to us pastors. Over the years he has stressed over and over, not only what his heart was and is for himself, but also what our hearts, as pastors, ought to be with regard the ministry that God has entrusted into our care. He has said repeatedly, “Make sure your sheep are the best loved and best fed sheep in town.” I am quite certain that Chuck has never meant that as a church growth gimmick or as a motivation to compete with other local churches, but that us pastors ought know the responsibility of being genuine shepherds over his flock; something that Chuck has modeled so well for all of us over the years. A conscientious shepherd would have several goals in mind: 1) He is to lead the sheep to good pasture where they can graze the most nourishing food. He is to give them the pure Word of God and a love for pure doctrine 2) He would seek to protect the sheep and keep them safe from the elements of danger that surround them.. He would exhort, rebuke and warn of impending danger. 3) He would love and care for each of the sheep, knowing the value that each one possesses. He would leave the 99 for the one. He would chase after the wanderer. Obviously, as a pastor, this gives some serious challenge.”

    ********************************************
    What stands out to me is the following:
    1. I really appreciate the example that Pastor Chuck Smith has been to us pastors.
    2. … give them the pure Word of God and a love for pure doctrine
    3. He would seek to protect the sheep and keep them safe from the elements of danger
    4. He would exhort, rebuke and warn of impending danger.
    5. He would love and care for each of the sheep, knowing the value that each one possesses. He would leave the 99 for the one.

    1. Chuck is an example to CC pastors, whether for good or for bad.
    2. Love for pure doctrine, so long as it doesn’t disagree with Chuck’s, and Chuck doesn’t have to examine his.
    3. Protect from danger, so long as it’s not named Bob Grenier, or any of the other CC pastors who are/have been sexual and financial abusers. And provided it doesn’t mean accountability is instituted by removing the Moses Model.
    4. Warn of danger … see #3
    5. Knowing the “value” of the sheep, except if his name is Alex, or Paul, or Geoff, or Tina, or ….

  83. CC pastor Ed Taylor of Colorado appears to be making the case that he’s in charge of the CC affiliates in his area. According to his statements made in church streamed live over the internet, Ed gives the impression he was in charge of maneuvering a handful of CC pastors in the area to solve the problem of a CC pastor being removed from the pulpit.

    Is this a reinstating of the regional oversight they used to have? Has he replaced Tom Stipe? Or was the last one Gino Geraci?

    In any case, there appears to be a hierarchy when it suits them and not when it doesn’t. Ed was even on the board of the pastor that was removed. He was either fired or he left when he saw trouble brewing. Where was the protection for the sheep back then? Where was the oversight then? How much suffering could have been avoided …

  84. Hannah @ 3.

    From the ccphilly website:
    The roots of Calvary Chapel can be found in Costa Mesa, California. A non-denominational Christian church, Calvary Chapel was founded by Pastor Chuck Smith in 1965.

    My question is: if Calvary Chapel is non-denominational what exactly did Chuck Smith find in 1965? He found a non-denominational denomination in the strongest sense of the word denomination.

  85. @ 68 What you have describes is narcissism at best and corruption perverting God’s word to exploit, manipulate, and ultimately spiritually abuse the body of Christ.

  86. Can somebody please direct me to good (hopefully concise) information sources to understand Calvary Chapel’s (Moses) organizational structure compared to Protestant structures and also, what the Bible has to say about church structure ? Thank you & God Bless !

  87. Clemer-

    This may help you.

    http://procinwarn.com/ccclergy.htm

  88. Thank you Hannah. I took a good look at the website. Other resources I will study include:
    1) Paper: “The Organization of the Church in the Apostolic and Post-Apostolic Days (ca. 35-150 A.D.)” by Justin Alfred
    >> this supports CC position
    2) Paper: Calvary Chapel and Elders By Vance Salisbury
    >> this is a (critical) critique of Alfred’s paper
    3) Book: The Master’s Plan for the Church – John F. MacArthur Jr
    4) Book: Biblical Eldership: An Urgent Call to Restore Biblical Church Leadership – Alexander Strauch

    Any other suggestions appreciated. God Bless!

  89. Lone Mountain Calvary Chapel, Las Vegas NV does not indicate on their website that they are affiliated with CCCM but when I emailed them and asked I received the following reply.

    1. Yes. We are affiliated with CCCM.
    2. There are currently eight Calvary Chapel churches in the Southern Nevada area. Seven of them are in and around Las Vegas.
    3. The name Calvary Chapel is a licensed trademark. It can only be used with permission from CCOF (Calvary Chapel Outreach Fellowship).
    4. We are non-denominational, therefore we pay no dues or portions of our tithes to CCCM.
    5. We are an affiliation, and accept other churches to be affiliated with us if their doctrine is the same as our, they have the same ministry philosophy we do, and we can work together (Amos 3:3).

  90. I received this from a Pastor Friend up in Canada who is considering relocating to Las Vegas NV and planting a church there. He is considering “affiliating” with CCCM and has been in contact via email with the Pastor of Calvary Chapel Lone Mountain in Las Vegas. He idoe not agree with all of Pastor Chuck Smiths teachings and has asked several questions about non-biblical things that Pastor Chuck Smith said on his radio program. Below is the response that he received from the head Pastor of CCLM. It’s a little disturbing that the Pastor accuses him of spreading “Internet Gossip” as the things his asking about are known and documented facts and Pastor Chuck Smith does not deny saying them. Really odd that this Pastor won’t say whether he agrees or disagrees and instead accuses my friend of not having all the facts or spreading gossip. Really sad.

    ————————————————————————————————————-
    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for your inquiries. Let me see if I can address them one at a time:

    1. Affiliation and ordination are two very different things. Affiliation is simply a loose organization of like-minded churches. Each church is independently run, and does not take orders from an outside organization. There are no dues paid nor is there an outside board making any decisions for the direction of the church. Nor do they support you financially.

    2. What does the affiliation mean? It means that we have brothers in the ministry who “do” church like we do, that can relate to what we go through, and that are there for us in our time of need. Calvary Chapel pastors are related to one another by friendship not by law. This means that we get together on a regular basis for prayer and fellowship, we help each other out, and we get each others’ back.

    3. CCOF stands for Calvary Chapel Outreach Fellowships. They are the ministry of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (CCCM) that handles the affiliation of Calvary Chapels. Affiliation is actually handled indirectly through CCOF, but it is coordinated through the local Calvary Chapels, since they are the ones you would have to have a relationship with. Any information about CCOF should be obtained by contacting Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.

    4. As far as Pastor Chuck Smith and any internet accusations go, I would suggest that you take that up with him. The Scriptures have much to say about gossip and the internet is filled with it. If you would like to know the facts, I would suggest going to the source. I would also suggest that you resolve these issues before you pursue affiliation. Why would you want to be affiliated with an organization whose leader you do not agree with doctrinally. I will say that every teaching I have ever heard from Pastor Chuck has been solidly Biblical. If you have heard otherwise, you have probably not gotten all of the facts.

    I hope this answers all of your questions. When you contact CCOF, please let them know that you have been in contact with me. Feel free to send them a copy of this email.

    Sincerely,

    Pastor Jimmy Morales
    Calvary Chapel Lone Mountain

  91. OBSERVATION: This “Pastor” goes out of his way to downply “affiliation” but his final questions are very revealing. He asks

    “Why would you want to be affiliated with an organization whose leader you do not agree with doctrinally”

    Does he realize that he belongs to a “non-denominational” church that has a “Leader” who determines “Doctrine” how is that any different than the Catholic church and how is that “non-denominational”?

    Talk about scales……….

  92. [...] What do the Calvary Chapels say about Affiliation, Denomination, Chuck Smith / CCCM’s connection e… [...]

  93. Because I am very much involved with the psychological underpinnings involving relationships, I naturally gravitate to those things that supports or destroy the marital bond that is meant to develop between a husband and a wife. Divorce rate in the church is higher than outside of it. Domestic violence and child abuse is becoming more and more prominent and victims are coming forth reporting years of abuse and re-victimization by their pastor and its leadership. Why? One word: Accountability. When the system is narcissistic, the very fabric that would threaten this type of authority that which perpetuates an environment that is at best, corrupted. At worse, it uses God’s name while making a mockery of what God has told us to keep Holy, because He is Holy.

    To permit any man to continue in any ministry while practicing or having put a spouse away to marry another (more suitable partner) dishonors the marital covenant and God. To then say to the congregation, not a problem, just repent and you’re home free, we have covered. Sure, take 2 weeks off and go on your honeymoon. I have wondered, what happene to the wife and children who attended church, built relationships, and did everything she was supposed to “as unto the Lord.” So, either the wife is told her husband wants to marry someone else, leaving her to make a choice of divorcing him, but what if he refuses to admit he has been being unfaithful and may even have fathered a child or someone is carrying his child, then what? What if the wife pleads with her husband to repent but he does even admit he’s cheating, but he’s doing everything in the wolrd to bully his wife into leaving the marriage. Yup, it’s called domestic violence, as no man has a right to bully his wife and/or his children. So, she refuses and then go to the CC pastor asking to speak to him, without her husband, because she has been so truamatized over the lying and constant bullying, she is not able to initiallly meet with the pastor and her husband. But per CC, the husband is in charge, therefore, he will determine who and when the wife speaks to the pastor, or anyone else for that matter, while her marriage is being ripped out from underneath her. But she stands in silence, waiting to see what the husband is going to do. He files for divorce instead, without biblical grounds. And CC stands by while lifting him up and welcoming her replacement to sit in the midst of the congregation with the child, she now has birthed. And everyone is good to go, because of the cheap grace that is taught by those who called themselves pastors and godly men of the Cross. What is even more unsettling, these very men will then lift their arms and hands to the Lord while giving praise to the Lord for forgiving them for committing such violence against their wives and children. And call this repentance. e

    Those at CC, be it in the pulpit on close by, you know who you are—-may your heart be convicted and my you turn from your wickedness. May those who support you also repent and hold you to an account to enable you to return to the wife whom you rejected and abandoned, all for the sake of covering you backend and holding onto something that was never given or ordained by God to have.

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/calvary/calvary17.html.

  94. Had given more thought to those who are thrown under the bus due to the laxity of immoral sexual practices that appears to be in CC. So what does happened to the woman, with or without children, who was displaced first by her husband, then by the pastor, then by the congregation that may have or not known her?

    Simple, she either remains unmarried or she can give her consent to be share her bed with another “brother” in the Lord. But then what, that husband does the same as the one now living in an adulterous marriage (if not bigamist)? Not CC’s problem, though–right? Not according to the Moses model, that is.

    And we worry about the gay community gaining legal rights to marry?

  95. CC appears to have little regards for the sanctity of marriage and even less regard for the wife who was thrown under the bus. They were as much a part of the body of Christ, yet was treated as though they never existed. If you know of any case that the CC actually did an outreach with her, that would be good to know. But for as long as I was attending CC, I did not see this occurring. Instead, I saw the husband with her replacement attending the Bible studies, but as for her—it’s as if, she and her children never existed.

    Matthew chapter 5:31-32. (NKJV)

    Marriage Is Sacred and Binding
    31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality[a] causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

    Malachi 2:12-16

    God was speaking to the priest In Malachi telling them what they were doing and leading the people to do the same.

    And we wonder why CC will not repent and rid themselves of the Moses model?

  96. Wit all the respect and love since when, the Church that Jesus found, became a franchise? God bless you all

  97. After over 5 years in the ministry at a Calvary Chapel it became very apparent that there was something wrong within the governmental system (or lack thereof). We were continually told to be transparent and when I brought these problems to light to the local pastor my wife and I were summarily shunned. We were never told that we had done anything wrong or our concerns were off base. We were just never welcome again. That was made very clear. The problem? My wife’s and my lack of respect to the “Moses Model”. We questioned the pastor and the ministry that was enough. Throughout the years at CC I was told to shun others who had done the same. I blindly listened and was convinced that these people were wrong and we were totally right in doing so. I have since called and wrote many of those people I was told to shun and asked for forgiveness. I have asked the Lord to forgive my hurting his little ones as well.

    During the process of leaving one CC and moving to another state we ended up very close to a CC in our new home. I had made the mistake of telling the pastor before we left where we were moving to. When we showed up at the CC in our new location we were not welcomed. Again we were never told we had done anything wrong or even if they knew anything about us. We tried to attend for 3 months and during that time no one spoke to us except small children. After my wife could not take it anymore and tearful drive home from church we went looking for another church. We ended up driving 30 miles to a church where we served our Lord in until my job took me back to our original area.

    I still serve the Lord with an online ministry and in my local church. My advice to anyone is advice I received from a long time CC attendee. Do not get involved with the inner circle at CC. If you do you will have to give up any ideas of your own and agree unquestionably with the pastor. This makes for “his” church to run efficiently. However, it does not make for “His” church to be truly led by the Holy Spirit. The Moses Model assumes that the Lord leads his church solely through the pastor and no one else. I wonder what they would do with Priscilla and Aquila if they corrected pastor Apollos today.

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