Aug 142012
 

Despite "scoffing" at the charge that Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel have a "doomsday" emphasis, Chuck's popular book "The Final Act" describes in detail Chuck's vision of the "doomsday" End Times scenario that he believes will befall this generation.

Calvary Chapel: “We simply teach the Bible simply”. Bible: “An overseer must be above reproach” and “an elder must be blameless”.

The Marine Corps Times reports that two Atheist Groups and one Religious Freedom Group (Atheists Inc., the Freedom from Religion Foundation and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation) have submitted a letter to Military Officials alleging that Camp Pendleton has denied them equal treatment in access to the base…while other Groups with a dubious reputation are granted a lot of leeway.

From the Marine Corps Times article:

They single out the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in Southern California, the mother church in a network of roughly 1,300 Calvary Chapel congregations nationwide. Its head pastor, Chuck Smith, has been mired in controversy for years, with critics blasting his teachings that center on predictions the apocalypse is near. He and other leaders within the congregation also have been accused of not doing enough to prevent the alleged molestation of several children.

“We are disturbed that the government is giving such extensive support, including assets, resources and personnel, to a single sect of Christianity,” the three groups wrote in their letter to Mabus. “Even more troubling is the ‘doomsday’ nature of the CCCM. … The last thing Camp Pendleton needs is a large group of well-armed Marines convinced of an imminent doomsday crisis.”

Smith told Marine Corps Times that said he hadn’t seen the letter — but he scoffed at any characterization of his church as doomsday-focused. CCCM, he said, supports “a pretty strong ministry” for Marines at Camp Pendleton, and he does not oppose other organizations, include nonreligious groups, accessing the base.

“We have men that go down [to Camp Pendleton] and we provide food for the fellows and … parties and picnics for them and their families,” Smith said. “We do spend quite a bit of money helping them.”

First things first, Chuck Smith will correct you big time for using “1,300 Calvary Chapel congregations”…he has clearly stated it is 1,500…err, no 2,000…and he’ll let you know it! Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6ydHm_lwKs and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yE6p1WgNM

I’m no Atheist, but Spiritual Leaders like Chuck Smith who lie, protect child abusers and cheat the Church sure are the best argument there is for “No God”.

CC’ites will spin the blame onto critics and whistleblowers for Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel’s bad reputation…however, the finger of blame points squarely at Chuck and the corrupt and unjust Calvary Chapel System. This is the fruit of not dealing with your problems in a right manner Calvary Chapel. Your reputation is terrible…and well deserved. Shame on you.

Unfortunately, the Atheists and the Religious Freedom Group make some valid points if their allegations of special access for Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel…while limited or no access for their Groups…are true.

1. Calvary Chapel is a terrible representative of the greater Church Body. The CC history is marred by scandal after scandal and toleration of abuse and corruption at its highest levels. Chuck Smith is currently protecting a Child Abuser in one of his Calvary Chapel pulpits this moment.

2. Chuck Smith does promote a “doomsday” form of End Times theology…no matter how much he “scoffs” at the idea (hey, I thought “scoffing” was a bad thing and that “scoffers” were going to hell or something like that, but I digress). To deny that Calvary Chapel has a Rapture Now, God is Coming Soon, End Times emphasis is laughable. The Chuck Smith Calvary Chapel “Movement” / Association (whatever) is largely built upon the End Times Eschatological Premise that the “End is near!”…so much so that Smith used to predict specific dates, but got out of that business in the early 1980’s when he was wrong several times. It is well documented that Smith thinks the generation that saw Israel become an official Nation was the last generation before the Rapture. Chuck, who can spin and lie with the best of them, can “scoff” all he wants…but it is what it is. Calvary Chapel is largely a Millerite type Group…though they’ve stopped the Harold Camping stuff. If CC isn’t “doomsday” / End Times like Chuck says, then I must have the wrong DVD’s with his name on it here: http://store.calvarychapel.com/cccm_store_/catalog/display.php?cat=185&zid=1&lid=1&cartid=201208142460744

3. Other Groups should have similar access, like it or not…especially in light of how poorly Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel represent Evangelical Christianity. If the litmus test is integrity and ethics within the Leadership and Structure of the Organization doing the proselytizing/helping folks at Camp Pendleton…then CC has set the bar very low.

Personally, I love our Marine Corps and I’m assuming that much of what Calvary Chapel does at Camp Pendleton is net “good”…despite the terrible Leadership and example by Chuck Smith and the CC System when it comes to child abuse, molestation, corruption etc in its ranks. As long as Calvary Chapel’s Agenda with the Marines is practical help for families and morale through providing food, entertainment, fun events, etc then no problem. If their Agenda is for political favor and/or Chuck Smith’s personal Philosophical / End Times interests…then problem.

Either way, even the World smells the stench coming from CC Land…it’s getting harder and harder for Chuck and Costa Mesa to cover it over with spiritual threats, denial and PR spin.

Full Marine Corps Times article here: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/08/marine-atheists-pendleton-access-complaint-081312/

 Posted by at 6:05 am

  68 Responses to “Atheist Groups “touching God’s anointed”: Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa singled out for being allowed access to Marines at Camp Pendleton, despite bad reputation of abuse scandals and “doomsday” end times emphasis”

  1. Obviously, it’s an “attack from the devil!”…as is all legit criticism of Calvary Chapel…so CCool Aid drinkers…beware :smile:

  2. alex,

    interesting that they should use the words ‘touch not…’ to protect the system and not the children? hmm… interesting…
    -mike

  3. MiC, LOL. Yes, that and some of the CCSP’s don’t mind being touched by women who aren’t their wives…until they’re caught. But, it’s usually covered up quite well by the CC Leadership…and it’s quickly back to business as usual.

  4. remember the SNL skit with Deiter? I changed it alittle…

    “Do you want to touch my Dove?”

  5. “CC’ites will spin the blame onto critics and whistleblowers for Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel’s bad reputation…however, the finger of blame points squarely at Chuck and the corrupt and unjust Calvary Chapel System. This is the fruit of not dealing with your problems in a right manner Calvary Chapel. Your reputation is terrible…and well deserved. Shame on you.” –Alex

    Yeppers.

    When you get up close and personal with a white collar criminal, as I have been, it reminds you of just how similar their narcissistic, taking and using ways are so very similar.

  6. Meant to say, “…so very similar with how many Moses Model Calvary Chapel pastors act.”

  7. Remember this quote a couple of months ago at the CCSP conference?:

    “The work we do for Jesus should give off the fragrance of Jesus,” said Guzik. “What does your ministry smell like?”

    This is embarrassing for Chuck and I hope he comes clean because now our military is taking notice.

  8. MiC, bonus points for Dieter reference :lol:

    Grateful, yep.

    Andrew, yes, many folks are taking notice outside the Stone Walls of Calvary Chapel. Their reputation is terrible…and should be for how Chuck has acted through this whole Bob Grenier saga (which is a microcosm of many more similar CCSP situations).

  9. This is something to behold.Calvary Chapel is getting skewed by the God haters.If the group was SBC or IFB they would be getting the same treatment.The country is in rebellion at the moment if my memory is correct. Alex why don’t you take a closer look at this one and revise the post a little bit.The G haters are raising HADES all over the place……This is not giving a kunos to CC,just trying to keep things in context.

  10. Blessed by God….the Atheists are doing what the World does. It shouldn’t surprise us “Christians”.

    Paul the Apostle speaks to “Christians” about the dynamic here:

    1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

    I am not concerned about the Atheists wanting equal access…I am concerned that they have legitimate beefs with Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel for being a stain on the Christian Ideal for their actions and inactions.

  11. Does the CC leadership understand that covering up scandals is exactly what Penn State did with Jerry Sandusky? But now at least Penn State is making some corrections.

  12. Andrew, the first thing “CC Leadership” does publicly is lie and deny there is any Leadership Structure and that Chuck Smith has any responsibility or control or authority…but privately they send NOTICE to 2,000 CCSP “affiliates” of the “changes Chuck has made” to the entire Ecclesiastical Structure of the Calvary Chapel System.

    Penn State is a good example. A Worldly Org has done a much better job of dealing with their scandal…once it came full blown…than Calvary Chapel. Penn State has more of a sense of justice and protecting children than this “church”.

  13. Alex, I think they are perpetuating the lie as well. I have yet to see a Calvary Chapel pastor tell their congregation about any of the changes that went into affect. Shouldn’t the congregations know about the letter Don McClure sent to the affiliates or is this all sworn to secrecy? It appears that the people giving the money may have no clue.

  14. BBG,
    the God haters will hate regardless and i’d rather we as Christians be known for confronting, owning up to and correcting our failures than hiding them for fear that the God haters will have more ammunition. out in the open so at least they can’t say we’re like Penn State. Who knows, if the God haters see us developing a track record of integrity, they may just stop having ‘stories’ to deflect them from actually considering our words.

    stop blaming the people trying to bring the corruption to light and start blaming the ones who are responsible for the corruption. that’s an honest argument and position to take up.
    -mike

  15. This is still on almost every CC website out there:

    Church government at Calvary Chapel is very simple, not a complex bureaucracy, committees and sub-committees are essentially non-existent.

    I bet you dollars to donuts that they won’t say a peep about the NEW CCA org. Keep the congregation in the dark and lie in public seems to be the strategy.

  16. Andrew, as is typical in the CC System…only the “anointed” will probably hear of the real changes going on…unless some of the CCool Aid drinkers happen to stumble upon it here.

    MiC, yep.

    I’m not shocked when an Atheist points the hypocrisy finger at the Church, nor am I shocked when they argue for equal access.

    It’s funny, Jesus didn’t really rebuke the World…He strongly rebuked the Hypocritical Religious Leaders. Interesting no?

    I should be shocked when Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel cover up abuse and corruption and protect it in their pulpits (but I’m increasingly less shocked…still disgusted, but less shocked).

  17. Andrew said, “I bet you dollars to donuts that they won’t say a peep about the NEW CCA org. Keep the congregation in the dark and lie in public seems to be the strategy.”

    That’s been the CC Strategy for years. Do all your business and dirty deeds behind closed doors and in secrecy and present a False Image and Appearance of Accountability to the giving unit public…who has no power or say in what goes on.

  18. “That’s been the CC Strategy for years. Do all your business and dirty deeds behind closed doors”

    And that will be fine with the congregations. The less they know, the less responsibility they have to take action. That’s why bob Grenier is still in business. Lazy fast food Christians.

    “if it’s not my problem, it’s not a problem”

    They don’t tell thier congregations because nothing has really changed.

  19. The Bible says a pastor must be “above reproach” and “able to teach”.

    I feel that CCCM’s senior pastor Chuck Smith’s aberrant eschatological teachings coupled with a plethora of CC scandals to which he has turned a blind eye have given the atheists groups something to hang their hats on and legs to their story.

  20. LHL, yep.

    Not Alone, I got this recently from a CCV’er:

    “Hey Alex. Out of respect for Pastor Bob, I’m going to have to remove you from my Facebook account. You haven’t done anything to offend me personally ( I appreciate your words of encouragement this weekend)…but I’m doing my best to forge ahead with these folks.

    I don’t know the details of your history with Pastor Bob (& I don’t need to)…but I believe in reconciliation & I hope that someday, the two of you can work out your differences.

    I know your Mom loves & misses you too.”

    This illustrates a big part of the Problem. This is from by all I gathered a very good guy. He just simply doesn’t care enough to want to know. He’d rather remain ignorant of the facts and be blind to injustice than face up to the stuff. It’s part of the CC Dynamic in action and it’s not right.

    I responded that if my Mom loves and misses me so much, why doesn’t she respond to calls and emails and why did she have 6 Calvary Chapel ushers kick her grandkids and my wife out of CCV when my wife tried to introduce her to her grandson for the first time?

  21. Alex, there is an old saying. Party trumps person. It was used to quiet the voices of people who supported a particular party, but disagreed with the person running on that parties ticket.

    “…why did she have 6 Calvary Chapel ushers kick her grandkids and my wife out of CCV when my wife tried to introduce her to her grandson for the first time?”

    There ya have it.

    Why has not a single pastor of some 300 pastors contacted me since my fallout with Calvary Chapel Charlottesville and Chad Myhre?

    Party trumps person.

    If ever there was a cold hard case for blatant idolatry in Christianity today…

    Well, there ya have it.

  22. reuben,

    ‘now’ you find your voice to agree and speak up for alex? well, at least you won’t be banned for it. (sorry alex)
    -mike

  23. Reuben’s been supportive many times. He was in a tough position being a moderator and had others to consider as well…and there were many times I deserved moderation. I never felt he dealt with me unfairly…and he was one of the few who didn’t sugar coat stuff with regards to CC.

  24. Reuben: “party trumps person….”
    yup, and that’s why alex was banned and why MN shut down the PP to protect the Good Guy CC Pastors. and istead of just ‘warning’ people to stop talking about alex you didn’t just start ‘moderating’ those comments in the first place, maybe even ‘banning’ the ones who failed to stop bashing alex even ‘after’ he couldn’t defend himself…

    party trumps person… really?
    -mike

  25. sorry alex, i’m done with the rant…

    sorry reuben, didn’t mean to spill ALL my brains on the floor. i should use more restraint. i will in the future.
    -mike

  26. Alex said

    “It’s funny, Jesus didn’t really rebuke the World…He strongly rebuked the Hypocritical Religious Leaders. Interesting no?”

    Yup in reading the Gospels this is very evident. Even John the Baptist rebuked the religous leaders and political leaders

  27. MiC, I can’t really say much to you b/c it would be the pot calling the kettle black times a million :lol:

  28. SolRod, yes same with John The Baptist.

    So gracious to sinners and the World (unlike Chuck Smith and CC) and so harsh with the Religious/Political leaders.

    The example of Jesus and John the Baptist speak volumes and have never been lost on me.

  29. mic,

    I have to have a bit of thick skin if I am to exist in the blogging world, especially PhxP.

    I have never once roasted Alex for his case. I believe him 100%. I agree with a vast majority of his arguments and conclusions. I despise BG for more reasons than just Alex. I equally despise the CC system for more reasons than just what Alex has presented. I carry the shame of being a staunch defender of all things CC. I also carry the shame of being an idiot. I take the criticism, because I brought it on myself.

    Alex asked to be banned. He was.

    The bulk of the regular posting community was asked, by me, rather nicely, numerous times, to drop it. Exact quote…

    “I do not turn a blind eye to dishonesty, moral failure, and the loss of brotherly love. I fight the urge to plant a cyber slap across the face of the one who drives us nuts almost daily. I fight it because he is doing something about the dishonesty, moral failures, and loss of brotherly love. I also acknowledge that in so doing, he has violated all the aforementioned items, and is totally unrepentant for it.

    Michael and I have a very similar opinion on the matter. None of this would have ever happened had CC owned the faults, and repented. That makes me angrier at the powers that be, than AG.

    AG requested ban, was banned, and has hit the blog from every IP/e-mail/alias angle he can since. This happens because he is still the object of discussion here. I don’t know how to effectively ask people to cease. I actually had to make the call to put his name in the word list that automatically puts comments into moderation. The other words in there should not have to be associated with a person’s name. It is a shame. People walked right around it. I am not their parents, I don’t put food in their fridge, or pay their bills. There is only so far I can go.

    I have been admonished by a fellow loved moderator for saying so, and I will be admonished again, but I have to say this again. Wounded people wound people. It is all he knows, and it is how he acts. He has the choice to stop, but we know that AG is not capable of that level of restraint.

    I love this community, I love this blog. I serve in whatever way I can. I intend on continuing through the 39 articles, here or elsewhere. I do so because unity in the faith is an epic deal to me. Bigger than Bob, Skip, Chuck, and so on. The Body of Christ often times looks like a million Hannibal Lecters. Some of those Hannibals have household names, have written books that we own, and preach to tens of thousands every week. That is what I view to be my fight. I am going about the solution (as I see it) the very long way around.”

    There are 4 people that I know of banned from PhxP. You know 2. The one that I single-handedly banned from PhxP was none other than Chad Myhre, owner/operator of SMP. I was banned from his blog for reposting things he said on his private blog in a case used against him in his own church, because he is a filthy scum liar, telling his church one thing, and CC pastors something else. I also allowed access to his blog to people involved in that case.

    Long and short, no need to apologize. I frustrate myself most of the time.

  30. http://youtu.be/db3yxVijD_A

    New music for Gov. Romney

  31. brian,

    isn’t this the guy who does the crazy ‘endtimes’ vids?

    -mike

  32. yes the second eagle of the Apocalypse or some strange thing like that.

  33. brian, I miss your posts! How are you?

    Doomsday dude is still at it I see…

  34. Al, that is so frustrating. To know that this person de-friended you because he wants the approval of a child molester more then yours. The mom thing was good but I would have asked if he knew that his pastor had molested his own son? How do you reconcile that? It just goes to show that maybe people do need to know more at CCV. Whether they want to or not. CCV congrigation and Penn State students are very similar. The students defended Jo-paa knowing he had protected a pedafile for a number of years. Same at CCV, they protect thier own lazy selfish need to not feel like the idiots they are by denying anything happened.

    I know your step dad is madly spinning all this in hushed tones to those he thinks will blindly follow and subtlely share with the friends that they have influence over. I’ve seen it, I’ve heard it, it’s what first opened my eyes to his true character. He is a gossipy women with an agenda.

    I’m sorry that happened to you Al, that sucks.

  35. It also sounds like this person is jockeying for a position in bob’s small man-kingdom and needs to clean the door of his closet to better hump the leg that rules.

  36. An aside I now this is most likely wrong as I have come to learn in the evangelical community two truths, not really taught in the bible, which is totally irrelevant if it does not support the status cue. Cash is king and might makes right, I could add another spiritual virtue winner takes all. This is why we as true followers of Christ should not support any type of campaign finance reform. The office should go to the highest bidder. Always. I got that part.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/nyregion/linda-e-mcmahon-wins-connecticut-senate-primary.html

    I find this troubling. I need to repent.

  37. This seems to be a good time for me to finish my discussion on, “Why Calvary Chapel keeps getting away with hurting God’s people?”
    I posted points 1 and 2 in the July 5th article on this website at posts 16 and 20. In summary CC gets away with what it does because:

    1. It is doing God’s work (proven wrong)
    2. It is not nor has been a work of God (hard to accept)

    Now for point 3 on my journey to understand why CC is allowed to do what it does. Revelation 3:14-22 summarizes what has happened to CC:

    14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

    When I first started to attend CC in 1985, I often heard these verses and the proceeding verses taught. Of course each of the churches in revelation where real places with real problems, but I was taught the churches in Rev were in the order of church history. Furthermore, it was implied that CC was the church of Philadelphia, brotherly love. Even back then as a baby Christian I had a hard time with this teaching. Why? Because at the same time that I heard Chuck teach that his church was the Philadelphia church he taught we were in the end-times. If we were in the end-times wouldn’t that mean that the church is now the church of Laodicea?

    Whether CC was the church of Philadelphia or not back then does not matter, now days it is the church of Laodicea. Money drives its leader’s decisions. If it is true what you wrote in a previous article where CS wanted to step down because of sin, but was not allowed to by his board. The real reason would have been revenue loss. Chuck would have lost his many “ministries”, members would have stumbled (left), others (pastors) would have had to trust God for success not the CC dove, because the Calvary dove (a symbol of Chuck’s spirit) would have been tarnished.

    In conclusion: If CC is the church of Laodicea, its leaders have not heeded God’s warning and therefore have chosen to be spit out of God’s mouth. Their ministry is without God. God is not in it and therefore CC is not disciplined by God on earth, its time is coming in the future. Can we reform the church of Laodicea? Does not the end come instead? CC may make it through the tribulation. Not the believers, but those that are playing church for financial gain. What a curse for CS to face. His great love for God lead to the building of a church organization that will last through the tribulation appearing hot but being lukewarm; because it has become something that God has rejected.

    I’ll write another post to show how this relates to this blog article.

    Yours in Christ,

    Chuck S

  38. Brian, I’m working on a comparison between a white collar criminal and a narcissist CC pastor. So far, the characteristics I’ve observed up close are eeerily similar.

    Characteristics in common:
    I will lie and play on your emotions to get more money than I need.
    You will not hold me accountable for how I take or use the money or assets.
    I will over promise and under deliver.
    I will never apologize.
    I will accuse you of what I’m guilty of.
    I will befriend you only for what you can give to me, serve me, till I use you up.
    I’m actively building my back story so you will already have a false answer when you are presented with the facts and then have the question.
    I will deny, deny, deny when caught.
    I don’t care about you, I just say I do.
    I’m incapable of seeing the situation from your point of view, since your’s doesn’t exist to me.
    I am able to fly under the radar of the law, commit wrongs and still avoid prosecution.
    There will be no in house accountability, because I won’t put myself in those situations where it exists.
    You can get mad and leave, because there are so many more fresh faces I can steal from and use to support my system of scams.
    If you corner me with facts, or police action, I will burn you … I will. (and he does.)
    If you are a threat to me, even subtly because you are unwilling to show your allegiance to me, then I will punish you in a passive aggressive way.

    My list is longer, but I’ll spare you.

  39. brian, good to see you!

    Hope you are doing well despite the losses you’ve experienced. It sucks, no way to sugar coat it.

  40. Grateful,

    LOL

    I know you were being serious and it all fits, but it is funny to see it listed like that.

  41. The Marines and Calvary Chapel win lawsuit!

    In a stunning upset for atheists throughout America, the Supreme Court has ruled that the Marines do not have to allow other groups on its bases.

    Calvary Chapel helped the Marines argue their case before the Marines. A representative of CC explained CC’s stance before SCOUSA. Here is part of the transcripts:

    CC representative:

    “Your honors I humbly stand before your today to explain our stance about atheism. As you know for years we have presented ourselves as a Christian organization doing God’s work. However, as our opponents have pointed out, recently we have been embroiled in lawsuits, accusations of covering up illegal activity and using people for financial gain. If these accusations are true then, as the book of Revelation in the Holy Bible points out, God has left our ministry. We are without God; he has spewed us out of his mouth.
    Seeing we are not challenging the other side’s accusations against us of doing evil, we will accept the argument that our ministry is one that does not have God’s involvement. Seeing we are without God, we are atheists.
    Please let me explain. The word atheist has been accepted to mean in the lack of belief in God. If one examines the word it would be found this definition is wrong. Atheist is composed of two parts “a” and “theist.” “A” can be interpreted as “not, without, and against.” “Theist” means belief in God. Now if one’s actions are without God in them, what good is their belief in God? The book of James tells us even the demons in hell believe in God. Our actions are as though we do not have a belief in God, or in other words we act without the belief in God. We are atheists. “

    Justice R.:

    “It appears to me you are playing word games. You tell everyone you believe in God, but now you say that your actions are like those of an unbeliever. These actions should be used as proof that you are an unbeliever, there for you are an atheistic group? Do I understand you correctly?”

    CC Rep:

    “Yes your honor, that about sums my argument up. Dare I say there are blogs out there that agree with this argument?”

    Justice S.:

    “How is this court to believe that your argument today is not an argument of convenience? In the past you have argued in one lawsuit that you had ecclesial authority over all CC, and then in another argument you have stated that you had no authority over any other CC affiliate. It does not seem to me that your yes is yes and your no is no.”

    CC Rep:

    “Justice S., you are looking at this all the wrong way. It does not matter what we did as much as the situation we were in when did what we did. As the philosopher Sartre would say, “The truth is whatever is, is.” The situation defines our truth at the time of the situation. I know this sounds like a house built on the sand, but if you stick around long enough you will get used to our way of thinking.”

    All the Justices:

    “He just quoted Sartre, and his actions match those Sartre would support. Their group must be atheistic. We side with the defendants. Case dismissed.”

    Our perhaps this is it will go down.

    Yours in Christ,
    Chuck S.

  42. Chuck S. said,

    “The situation defines our truth at the time of the situation. I know this sounds like a house built on the sand, but if you stick around long enough you will get used to our way of thinking.”

    That is rich!!!!……. LOL

  43. Chuck S, ROTFLOL! Brilliant :smile:

  44. Chuck S.

    as usual. direct, succinct, truthful and unapologetic for both your commentary on CC and revelation and the ‘play by play’ of the SCOTUS.
    Awesome satire! you rock.
    -mike

  45. Re: Raymond @40

    It’s funny and scary at the same time.

    This white collar criminal went to church to scam there. He was a quick study on what to say, what to do, what catch phrases win people over. His speech to the men in the singles group about not sleeping with the women was to win over the unsuspecting women with deep pockets and soft hearts.

    He tried to get a class to open up about their struggles … so he could exploit them.

    Thankfully, he is doing this in a church that has lots of wisdom, accountability, and decades of experience, so this criminial will not get much traction. He’s already been found out. BUT if he knew about CC’s and what he could do being an unaccountable moses model pastor, I guarantee he’d be drawn to that role.

  46. The world will confirm CC’s righteousness. Now God is another story.

  47. one more …

    The criminal was about to be arrested for theft (scams against people in transition from sold homes to apartments) when he figured out a deal to avoid being arrested. He’s as skilled as my old CC pastor.

    When I made a comment about this man being worse than the CC pastor, several spoke up and made it clear that I was wrong. This man is a criminal with a religious scam on the side. The old CC pastor did evil in the way he manipulated, controlled, stole, and got away with it in the name of God. It doesn’t get worse than that.

  48. Excellent, Chuck S.!

    You must be a lawyer. I’ve been listening to this kind of talk all week.

  49. brian @36

    so, what were some of the positions she held that you disagreed with?
    -mike

  50. Grateful,

    I’m not a lawyer. But I was a CC pastor. Now I am a man without a reputation. I left the dark side years ago. I couldn’t stand the words coming out forth from one whose voice was deep and commanding, such as “Luke I am your father.” Especially, when I saw the price one need to pay to serve the dark side.

  51. Mike in Chandler I live in Gilbert, AZ. You are close, perhaps we can have coffee sometime. Let me know.

    Alex, Next summer I will near Salt Lake City for a week or two. Perhaps we can find a way to meet half-way to have a face-to-face. I’ll bring the wife and we could have dinner. Until, then do not doubt yourself, God is doing a good work.

  52. Good to know you got free, Chuck S.!

    Alex, I agree with Chuck. Don’t doubt yourself. God h

  53. as and is using you/this.

  54. chuck s.
    “Mike in Chandler I live in Gilbert, AZ. You are close, perhaps we can have coffee sometime. Let me know.”

    i’d love to. we can get together by email if you’d like. can you comment on one of the posts on my blog so i can get see email address without exposing it or mine to others? sorry, i’m a bit of a neurotic/paranoid when it comes to putting my email out there for everyone to see.
    hope to get together soon brother.
    -mike

  55. Thanks Grateful and Chuck S.

    Ya, I tend to second-guess myself at times…but there’s always a burning passion underneath the surface that I can’t shake and I’ve tried many times.

    Some would frame it all as “bitterness”…but what if it’s holy indignation and disgust and I’m supposed to be speaking out as are you and others?

    I’m going with my gut and what I believe is the right thing to do…and continuing to speak out and keep the flow of information going.

    I know 100% for sure that there are bad injustices that are occurring, as I personally experienced them directly and have witnessed much. It is lied about and is not repented of and Chuck Smith facilitates it and endorses it by his failure to act…even knowing the details and expressing out of one side of his mouth that he “believes” us.

  56. Alex,

    if you are labeled as bitter then you are in good company: Nehemiah, Micah (1 King 22: 9,10). When truth hits home and one does not want to repent they call if judgmental or bitterness. So if we speak the truth, then let those who do not like the truth call us bitter.

  57. About her politics not much, but she outspent her opponent by many times and that bothered me, and that makes me sick. As a Christian in the american tradition one should always understand that might makes right, winner takes all and cash is always KING. This is why I need to repent of my repugnant emotionalism.

  58. brian

    thanks for the response. i’m not sure why you should feel bad though. correct me if i’m wrong, but my understanding of your comment and your answer to me is that you feel it might have been ‘unfair’ for her to win because she had more money to spend, both of her own and from those who freely supported financially because they agreed with her positions on the issues.

    you are right. i agree with you. might doesn’t make right, and cash shoudln’t be king. but is that what really happened? it possible to look at it a different way?

    1. she was free and willing and legally allowed to ‘risk’ and spend her own money, just like the other guy. the fact that she had more of it is not a ‘fairness’ or necessarily a ‘moral’ issue unless it’s morally wrong to be sucessful in business and frugal in personal finance. is it possible that her own ability to fund at least part of her own campaign was just a fruit of “sometimes doing things ‘right’ makes might”?
    2. as far as other money, apparantly more people gave to her campaign than to her opponent. could that not show that people supported her ‘ideas’ and positions more than others supported the opponent’s ideas and positions? people freely, willingly and ‘legally’ support candidates with whom they agree or whose ideas they want to further. is it necessarily ‘unfair’ for them to support her more? fairness and morality are not really the issue at all… unless she lied, coerced or broke the laws in getting those people to give to her campaign, and i don’t see the IRS or the campaign watchdogs coming down on her yet.

    like i said, you shouldn’t feel bad for feeling the way you do and should feel free enough to express your true opinions without unnecessarily trying to apologize for them. but your underlying premise that she may have won ‘only’ because she had more money or because some unfair ‘cash is king’ or ‘might makes right’ is coming from what I would say the ‘real’ unfair assumption… that everybody should only make what everybody else does and it’s only ‘fair’ to spend what the other guy ‘has to spend’, even if that guy has less because he personally has less or is unwilling to risk what he has in his own campaign or because less people may support his ideas and positions.

    not trying to knock, just want to offer a different perspective for your consideration.
    -mike

  59. Alex, the new website is up. http://calvarychapelassociation.com/. I am glad I heard about this first on your web site. You have credible information and credible sources.

  60. Servant Leadership

    by Damien Kyle

    
One of the things the Lord has been pleased to bless in Calvary Chapel is its emphasis upon servant leadership. This is the conviction among its pastors that the church we pastor does not exist to serve us, but that we are called to serve and lay our lives down for them. Jesus taught that we are not to be like the rulers of the Gentiles who lord their power and authority over others, but rather that the way to greatness in the kingdom of God comes by being a servant. He declared of Himself as our example in this, “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:25-28).
Pastors who consider themselves to be too important to do anything and everything needed in order to serve the flock entrusted to them, reveal that they have come to think of themselves as more self-important than our Lord. As pastors we cannot represent our “Servant” Lord, without being servants ourselves.
Pride, harshness, a sense of self-importance or a dictatorial spirit is inconsistent with Jesus’ example.
There are wonderful promises in God’s word toward those who choose to live a life of servant leadership, including 1Peter 5:5, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

    Damien, do you really think the Lord is so pleased with the reputation of Calvary Chapel Moses Model pastors who all they seem to know how to do is Lord over the flock?

  61. “Ministry Business Section
    This section will offer samples of bylaws for churches to look over, how to incorporate, set up an accounting system with sample charts of accounts, government reporting issues, setting up a board of elders and their roles in ministry.”

    Yet nothing about the safety of children, only government reporting issues?

  62. Nice new Calvary Chapel Association website. Well, sure looks like a Denomination now.

    Hopefully they’ll be better stewards of their authority from here on out and address beefs with CCSP’s and not just be a marketing arm and information gathering Stone Wall of protection for CCSP’s who do wrong.

  63. Good words, very good, from Damian Kyle above. My concern is that the words ring hollow when CCSP’s who demonstrate the opposite of what Kyle states are endorsed and affiliated.

    That is the true teaching of Calvary Chapel…action and example…not the words only.

  64. MiC,

    Brian writes with sarcasm and somewhat tongue-in-cheek. It took me a while to catch on. A lot of his comments are quite good: inciteful and expressed in an interesting way.

    I certainly hope he’s not as negative as his writing seems. He is a good guy making a point about modern Christianity and money. Greed may be the major sin in the US today, and the church, at least some churches and pastors seem to be just as guilty.

    Christ said something about the rich getting to heaven, eye of a needle, camels, etc. I think that’s Brian’s point.

  65. I wanted to offer my point of view, yes some of what I say is a bit tounge and cheek but it is also very serious. From day 2 or three of being a christian it was made very clear
    1. God was really pissed of at us because we did what we were predestined to do. (sorry about the language but it was clear).
    2. True believers would never commit sins of fellowship like showing a need, actually needing a savior and the vilest sin by far, showing grief of any type for any time. The True believer never grieves they move on, get over it and deal with it. Always.
    3. True Christians should never actually need Jesus. I will admit I never got this aspect of the true faith but it is very clear. True followers of Jesus, do not, ever for a second after the apologetic salvation ever need Jesus.

    In some ways I kid but it kills me to see the Gospel of faith and grace traded in for a gospels of works that would but the most virulent “Romanist” to shame. I chuckle when protestants talk about grace, through faith alone. Not a chance if Jesus himself appeared that could not happen, acceptance in the Body is always based on works.

    In some ways it can be tongue in cheek but in some ways it is a raw nerve of a soul wanting salvation and loathing myself because I am a weak piece of sh*t that actually needs salvation. The true follower never needs, anything for even a second. I have said this before and I say it again. From the very cheap seats where most of us sit, it is not good news, it really is not, and never will be. Please stop calling it that.

  66. brian,

    i’m sorry you seem to have been sold such a poor bill of goods in the past as to what it means to be a ‘christian’. we’ve all been there at one time or another. please don’t let it define your responses now. bitter, angry, and sarcastic swipes at ‘charicature’ don’t help dissipate the false teaching or abuse you obviously have suffered from others, does it? and i’m not sure if it’s even honest to do so.
    if you will allow me to be a bit direct without feeling like i’m attacking you? what you call tongue in cheek ‘may be’ just an excuse to be unfair and unkind to people who ‘haven’t’ hurt you and may not be doing anything wrong other than reminding you of those who have hurt you in the past. that in itself is not really fair to them the same way that what others did to you what they did.
    in my comment to you above (the macmahon election story), i was just trying to ask you to see that situation objectively and challenging you to see past your filter. i have faith and trust that you ‘can’ but only you can choose to do so. that’s all i will say on the matter. i will let it go.
    -mike

  67. Fly on the Wall said,

    “Brian writes with sarcasm and somewhat tongue-in-cheek. It took me a while to catch on. A lot of his comments are quite good: inciteful and expressed in an interesting way.”

    I agree.

  68. Brian is great. You have to learn “Brian” to understand Brian. He is one of my favorite PhxP personalities.

 Leave a Reply

(required)

(required)

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>