Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia: Good, Bad or Ugly?

 

Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia. Child abuse and child molestation allegations from three of his sons continue to cloud his "ministry". What has your experience been like with Pastor Bob? Servant Leader? Does he model the Qualifications of a pastor in Scripture?

If you attended Calvary Chapel Visalia and were under the “authority” and leadership of Pastor Bob Grenier and you want to share your personal story, good, bad or indifferent…here’s your chance.

Many have shared on other threads. Much has been documented in private personal testimonies from former staff, associate pastors and long-time lay-people who served and gave money to Bob Grenier and Calvary Chapel for many years.

What was your experience with Pastor Bob? Did he model the Servant Leader that Jesus Christ talks about? Or, something else…

If you could say something to Bob Grenier, what would it be? What should he change about how he pastors and acts as an employer, etc?

 Posted by at 5:14 pm

  186 Responses to “Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia: Good, Bad or Ugly?”

  1. I’ll go first on this one.

    My personal experience, despite the vast omission’s in Bob Grenier’s Book “A Common Miracle” (available at a discount in book stores now…) is one of intense physical and emotional child abuse. Blood, bruises, kicking, striking with objects, shoving, rages, etc etc. Too many to count.

    My brother (Bob’s blood son, my half-brother…same mom, different dad) Paul alleges Bob Grenier molested him when he was young (Paul is homosexual). My brother, Geoff, corroborates the intense physical child abuse that went on for years and so does an Aunt. All of us have gone on record with a Police Detective, Bill Diltz of Visalia Police Department…however, the Statute of Limitations have run out…so no arrest.

    Others including neighbors and coaches and friends saw stuff and heard stuff that sounded and looked like the effects of abuse (bruises, screaming, scratches, marks, etc).

    I also witnessed a lot of lying and deception behind-the-scenes growing up watching how Pastor Bob conducted his business of church and how he consistently mistreated people over and over and over.

  2. Besides Paul, does anyone remember when Bob Grenier brought his son with him when he went to the Christian Reformed Church to trash a few former CCVer’s? I think he went to other churches in town as well but don’t have first hand experience of it. Can someone confirm?

  3. Glick Callahan, a former senior elder board member at CCV, brought up a series of financial concerns directly to Bob Grenier. He was severely dismissed for even attempting to suggest such a thing. He had records of numerous dinners at local fine restaurants paid for by CCV because Grenier was meeting with Greg Dowds and his wife for ‘church business’. Glick had very suspicious records of foreign travel costs to Europe that was charged to the church for Bob and his wife Gayle to make an excursion away from their ‘ministry’ location. Glick Callahan, a former banker, felt that there were some serious issues thst needed to be addressed. Bob Grenier strongly disagreed. Others that Alex knows can flesh out this story much more. There were many other problematic expenditures that went unquestioned by the other elders at that time. Only Ray Replogle, another CCV Board Elder, stepped up to investigate these concerns. Ray and Glick proved that they were men of resolve and deep integrity, when others on Grenier’s Board cowtowed to the tirades of Bob Grenier. It was all ignored for a very long time.

  4. Well being under his iron fist for a couple of years as the former Children’s Ministry Director, I can tell you Bob Grenier serves no one, you serve him. I can also tell you it was like pulling teeth to get money for the children but anything that had to do with the adults (things he would benefit from) was first and formost. I can also tell you I never saw a church budget either even as a church staff member. I saw how he would spin webs and lie about other staff members to make them look bad. After I left Calvary Chapel Visalia I attended a church where Bob Grenier contacted the pastor and bad mouthed a former attendee. Not too sure what he said about me at that meeting, but yes he does that. I actually heard him say one time about someone he fired, “I’m going to contact every church in Visalia about this one individual” What kind of pastor says that? Bottom line, Bob Grenier is a very crafty man, one who lies and deceives people. He thinks only of himself and his close relatives who attend there. He makes sure they have the perks (insurance, reimbursements,etc.) but forget about everyone else they don’t matter to him. All he sees people as when they drive in those gates is a paycheck and benefits! Got to love Bob!

  5. Alex- Can I make a suggestion?
    Now that you have the “Pages” section for specific subjects,(and Pastors), will you consider having another page where others can come on here and share their experiences?

    I know that sometimes it seems off topic to post on the thread that is currently active, especially when the comments don’t specifically relate to the thread that is active.
    Just a suggestion. I am sure there are others out there (Former CC’ers) who may be more comfortable posting on that kind of page especially when their posts would not directly reflect the topic that is active.

    I also know that you started this blog because of specifics in your personal situation, so I do not want to interfere with Gods plans for that. I see now that you are “broadening your scope” a little and that thought came to my mind.

  6. Alex-you can delete mine when you read it.

  7. It is very difficult to extend any level of grace to a man so disgustingly evil. I look at a woman with as much transparent love and concern as Tina Jenkins, and get very righteously angry at a man who squashed her spirit as much as he did. I am very grateful that Bob Grenier’s circumstances are finally beginning to turn back into his face. I think of the severity he lead his home and cringe. I think of the many pastors he personally tried to destroy, and bristle with anger. When I think of the many who have turned away from the faith because of his brutality, I want to scream. He can wear his job title on his forehead if he cares to but he gets no respect from me.

    You may wonder if I have any hatred in my heart toward him. I did for awhile. But I honestly have no hatred now. I just pity the poor disgusting man who lives as a charlatan, and successfully dupes many unsuspecting people…and some in very high places. I hope many others like Tina get just as bold as she is, to call Bob Grenier out on the carpet, and expose all his dirty tricks.

  8. Wide Awake, why is Ray still there if he saw these things?

  9. I’m not aware that he is still there. If he is, I don’t have an answer for you.

  10. Yes, he’s still there. He participates with the old people’s ministry quite a bit. Oh wait, ha, the whole church is old people. And the ones who aren’t old chronologically act old.

  11. Summer your funny! That is my other concern, the elderly. They can be so trusting and easy for people to deceive. I would have to say that they believe he is honest. They probablly don’t use the internet and are not interested in “gossip” (that’s what they call this site). So they will be easy to deceive, but I have great concern for them and what they are giving to Bob Grenier in the form of membership dues….ooppps I mean tithes! You would think they would have seen a lot in their years on this earth, but when satan disguises himself he comes as an angel of light. He is not as easy to detect as one would think.

    Wide Awake – you are an amazing person! It is people like you that have given me the courage to go on, to not give up on my faith. You have held me in prayer during my most darkest hours. For that I will always be greatful. Although my spirit was crushed and I did suffer much, you would be pleased to know I am doing much better. I honestly don’t hate Bob either, I absolutely hate what he does to people and in the name of Christ! I pitty him to, but I WILL stand up for myself and for others if necessary. I refuse to let him keep me silent! He held me in silence for the year in a half I stayed after he told me to basically shut up or hit the door.

    So Bob you picked the wrong women to bully around that day….you know when you and Greg sat me down and trashed out my friend in front of me and then told me if I repeated what you just said I could hit the door to! Welll guess what? God is not a respector of persons and what happens in the darkness will be brought to light! 8)

  12. Tina, Summer and WA, I don’t think Bob Grenier ever really wanted to be a church for the Elderly and have to morph into a Southern Baptist…he really wants to be a cool Hipster like Raul Ries or Skip Heitzig…but Bob needs that Senior money.

    Lots of those CCV Senior’s have been courted effectively and have been influenced to leave CCV (which is Bob’s personal Piggy Bank) a lot of money in their Estates.

    Bob gobbled up Floyd Westbrook’s ministry when he saw the opportunity. Much like Bob gobbled up the assets from another smaller CC in the Central Valley that went belly up years ago, much like Bob gobbled up the Reaching Youth money to the tune of a remaining $750,000 plus that he finagled into the CCV Savings Account for his personal use.

    Bob Grenier is a lot of things….one of them is shrewd when it comes to going for the money to keep his man kingdom going. Gotta pay for those Vespas, loaded Tahoes, Tommy Bahama shirts, Cruises to the Med and Alaska, U2 Concerts, Wiggles Concerts for the only granddaughter my mom acknowledges as alive, $175 ‘chaplain’ shoes, travel, meals, car washes, $1800 a month retirement, nearly $100,000 per year salary, housing allowance, car allowance, Lifestyle Center membership, etc etc etc.

  13. Anyone at CCV ever see much Benevolence going on? Any money or outreach to give money, food, clothing to the poor in Visalia? How about people who needed help at Calvary Chapel Visalia?

    I mean, there’s a nice Starbuck’s Coffee Shop that you’d think was making lots of money to give to the Lord’s Work! Nope.

    The Coffee Shop operates at a net loss b/c they pay my mom and her friends to run it.

    Why don’t they VOLUNTEER and try to make a profit there and give the money to poor people in their fellowship who are having a tough time in this terrible economy.

  14. Thanks Tina. I can see the sunshine returning to your smile. The countenance of a person reveals the nature of the soul. I suffered through a few of Bob Grenier’s recent videos last night, and he is cold as ice. A mechanical robot; emotionless. That is what a callous heart produces. His recent blog reports and sermons are very prophetic. I think the Lord is condemning him as he speaks. His recorded messages will haunt him someday. I think the most appropriate sentence for him someday should be to confine him to a 12 by 12 by 12 foot room lined wall to wall with flat screen TVs playing a continuous loop of his lectures. 24/7 of that is like a steady drop of water falling from a leaky faucet.

    Summer…Ray is a fine man as far as I know. I’m disappointed to know he is still supporting Grenier with his presence at CCV. Grenier’s deception is masterful. He is literally one of the best there is. Men like Brent Calvin and Ray would not allow themselves to be anywhere near associated with Grenier if they knew the extent of his dark reputation. I am not at liberty to share all the names of people I know who can verify the deceptive nature of Pastor Bob Grenier. They are substantial individuals with impeccable characters. When they got away from the daily activities at CCV, they were able to see more clearly the crisis that is being fueled by Grenier. I know one man in particular who was a faithful supporter of Grenier, who finally saw the light and left. He is a very guttsy man who is not afraid to speak his mind. I have thought long and hard about why he and others have been so reluctant to confront Bob Grenier. One very big reason is that they do not want to cause division in the Church. They know that determined, persevering confrontation will lead to some innocent people getting hurt. I used to think that. But I have come to the conclusion that tolerance of Bob Grenier’s bullying and abuse of power is a greater sin. If you survey the history of church attendance at CCV, you will see that most people who enter the front door of the church will eventually leave out the ‘back’ door. There are not many there today who were there 25 years ago. The very best people who attended and served at CCV in the past 25 years are now Elders and lay leaders in other churches. And they all have a private story to tell about their run-ins with Bob Grenier.

    Another reason they choose not to confront Bob Grenier is because they have no desire to waste their time listening to a twelve point sermon that tries to justify his actions. His tirades are downright exhausting. And he packs a weapon according to some who know. Someone that unstable could fly off the handle someday. It’s just not worth the time and emotional energy to get into a gigantic conflict with a man who refuses to listen to reason. I have spent way too much of my time on this blog. I don’t even like Bob Grenier. But I know enough to help support the claims of those who share on here. The sons of Bob Grenier are not crazy, Bob Grenier is delusional and the one to blame. Tina Jenkins and others are not making up their stories. They are real stories. There is not gossip here or even slander. As hard as it is to except, Bob Grenier is no angel. He is a depraved man who has not been transformed in action as much as his mouth proclaims. You all will see someday. We are just trying to soften the disappointment when you become convinced of that reality.

  15. Among the many reasons for people’s silence, you must include the “fear factor” – the fear that their deepest and darkest confessions made to their pastor (in honest, trusting confidentiality, and during times of deep sorrow and regret) will now be exposed to anyone and everyone. These people know that Bob can’t/won’t keep a secret, because they themselves have been made privy to so many secrets that others have shared. “Pastor” Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia has a great memory and he’s more than happy to use it to his advantage, whether to keep stray sheep in line, or to keep others from straying away from his “tender” care. Some pastors have worked hard at studying and have obtained an M.Div; Bob has worked equally as hard and has obtained his M.Man – Master of Manipulation.

    I can tell you from personal experience that Bob has told me things about others that would shame and embarrass them to death if they knew that he had shared such things with me. I am fully convinced that he is very selective in revealing just exactly WHAT he wants to share. It’s always just enough to convince you of his own “genuine” concern for their well-being.

    PEOPLE OF CCV – past or present – you can be assured that anything of “value” that you have ever shared with Bob (or probably any of the leadership there) in private has not stayed private! There ARE NO SECRETS kept at CCV, with the exception of Bob’s secrets. That being said – then what’s keeping you from making your stand against his ongoing abuse that you yourselves have witnessed – against you or against those you have loved over the years. Stand up and speak out! What do you have to lose? Your secrets have ALREADY come out – you’re just not aware yet of who knows and who doesn’t know; but be certain of this: Bob has already discussed your secrets with anyone who he wanted to discuss them with.

    I am still ashamed and embarrassed that I allowed this man to share some of the things he did with me some 15 years ago. I pridefully thought that somehow I had been allowed into the confidences of this “man of God” for good reasons and to “share the burden of the ministry” with him, but now I realize the sad truth that this man is nothing more than a Master of Manipulation, and the things he shared with me were simply to allow him more control over his kingdom.

    To this day it causes me grief when I run into some of these people – to realize what I willingly allowed myself to hear about them. May God grant you all the strength and courage to face your fears head-on! Psalm 56:4 In God, whose word I praise, in God I trust; I will not be afraid. What can mortal man do to me?

  16. I didn’t realize how long this post was going to be until I pushed the “Submit” button… I have things to do today! LOL

  17. I wasn’t questioning your comments, WA. Just wondering why someone like Ray would stay. I agree with everything you have said and have seen it all. Some of the elderly there are very sweet, but a lot of them are some of the meanest people I’ve ever come in contact with and I know why it is tolerated. They are very self-centered. The church has a very unhealthy atmosphere. The only good word I have come up with to describe it is ‘inbred’. It would do the people that have gone there a long time good to get out and see what the real world is like. It is amazing to me that some of these actions by some of the old people are tolerated but yet the people who really want to serve others are pushed out and their reputations are muddied.

    The atmosphere there is some of the most psychologically screwed up stuff I have ever seen. Makes you wonder if you are crazy or what!! You could put some of the actions of the leadership right in the faces of some of the people who have been there a long time and they will make excuses for it. This is why I use the term ‘inbred’. They haven’t been anywhere else for so long that they don’t know what is healthy and unhealthy. It’s very sad.

  18. Jon, that is soooo true. And yes, it makes you feel special when he shares these things. The Lord showed me my pride in all this! I was told so many things about past attenders through people in the leadership. I realize now that what I heard was twisted and probably not even totally true.

  19. You are so polite Summer – I would have used the word “incestuous” if it were me…

    You’re absolutely correct though – most CCV folks will quickly turn a blind eye away from anything that confronts them. They will do that right up until it becomes so ugly and personal that there’s no longer any way to keep turning any more. When I left many years ago I tried to explain my actions to many people and became familiar with the hundred and one excuses why people didn’t want to hear what was being said. When you are “comfortable” it’s unpleasant to hear truth that goes against your level of “comfort”. Thank God though – some are fed up and are waking up. We need to keep asking them the questions and reminding them of what they themselves have seen and experienced, as well as what they’ve seen their friends and family have to endure under Bob’s leadership. The tide is turning, a little here and a little there. May God grant open eyes and open ears to them, just like He has done with so many of us.

  20. You are so right Summer about the “inbred”. Someone once told me, “That’s just how Bob is you just have to get use to it.” I do? No I don’t! lol

  21. Bob Grenier is like a big spoild child who has never been fully confronted! He throws his tantrums and makes everyone cower… Oh let’s not rock the spoild child’s boat, he might get ugly. lol Whatever!

  22. I’ve seen his tirades, and watched grown men fall over to make him happy.

    JonD is right…Bob Grenier does share confidential information quite freely. I hope he is sued just for this alone.

  23. I know you have WA, I just would love to see someone put him in his place. I’m not suggesting that anyone is a coward for not standing up to him. I think most or all of the men who have tried to confront him are so godly that they choose to control themselves and not allow their anger to rise up. I’m not that godly, lol. I would love to stick my finger in his face and tell him, “You need to knock it off! You need to step down and get your life straight! You need to quit pretending you care and address the issues against you! You need to quit lying and steeling from God’s people for your own personal gain!” I am who I am, I don’t play church anymore. I’m confident the Lord loves me and I’m grateful to be His child by His glorious grace so I speak with boldness 8)

  24. I have read everything on this site and it makes me sick to my stomach. Makes me upset that my family has had to go through problems for the past 5 years with someone who attends Calvary Chapel Visalia who has a business in the Visalia community. That man is evil as can be but God is taking care of it as we speek. I don’t understand how his wife can just let him try and ruin someones business and do nothing about it. You never know some people who attend Calvary Chapel Visalia hide behind Pastor Bob Grenier and want to be like Bob all I can say is be careful. Do your homework

  25. Why dose’t someone just kick his a$$???

  26. LOL, it has been a big test of faith for sure. That is exactly what that man wanted to make my husband sick, quit or get fired. This man still has a problem letting go and still trying to stick his nose in the business. What did someone call Bob Grenier? was it Narcissist? Whatch out some men that follow BG have the same ways. Does BG groom them that way?

  27. I did attend CCV for a couple months and I didn’t like what I seen my gut feelings are that most or all of what others on here are telling is the truth. Things that people are sharing on here is just not right and should never happen…..

  28. ” I would love to stick my finger in his face and tell him, “You need to knock it off! You need to step down and get your life straight! You need to quit pretending you care and address the issues against you! You need to quit lying and steeling from God’s people for your own personal gain!” I am who I am, I don’t play church anymore. I’m confident the Lord loves me and I’m grateful to be His child by His glorious grace so I speak with boldness.” Tina Jenkins

    You may get your chance Tina. There are an aweful lot of people who have rehearsed almost the same words as you. It takes awhile for a storm to build but it appears that Bob Grenier will have to defend his actions at some point. If he or his lawyers read this blog, they are already aware of what the legal complaints are going to be. I can’t imagine that he doesn’t think about this every hour of the day. He’s a guilty man; a fugitive awaiting capture. That must be a personally terrifying position to be in.

  29. I’m going to scale back my language today and just explain a few things.

    I consider myself an ordinary person. I don’t have community clout or widespread influence like many others do. I’m just an ordinary guy. Years ago, I was a paid staff pastor, and know the internal politics of a functioning large church. Some things that took place in those days discouraged me and made me very cautious about church life and especially a senior pastor’s influence over my life. I believe the Lord taught me to focus my complete faith on Him rather than on any religious leader. When I decided to attend CCV, it was a blessing for many years. I eventually shared a close relationship with many leaders of the church, something the Lord has gifted me with (a desire to encourage pastors in their work). I have had many pastors confide in me over the years, and I believe I understand how they often think and the emotions they often experience.

    Bob Grenier is a complex man and a rather simple man at the same time. The complexity of his life has been very detailed on this blog. Most of the statements here are firsthand accounts, which makes them very credible. You may not know who these people are but I have heard almost verbatim comments from many others that sound the same. He has a very soothing, pleasant public persona. He has a way of attracting many people who find his surface life very appealing. I was attracted to him for many years. His followers are loyal followers. The simple side of Bob is that you think what-you-see-is-what-you-get. A totally devoted man of God. But most of us who have known him for a very long time eventually see his complex nature, and it is very unnerving. You have read some very direct hits made by me on this blog. I have not held back my words and my conclusions about the crisis surrounding Bob Grenier. I have stayed under a fictitious name for a reason…I have witnessed his fury, and I don’t want to be targeted by him again. I am hoping and praying that Alex and his brothers, Tina and the other staff members, Glick and his former colleagues, and the scores of former attendees of CCV will be vindicated and have their smeared names restored as soon as Bob Grenier is required (by law now) to give an account of his abusive behavior mostly behind the scenes at CCV.

    Let me be reflective for a minute. Do I or any other person on here believe that we are holier than Bob Grenier or the other CC SPs? Absolutely not. But we believe that God is no respecter of person’s; no one have a higher rank of importance before God, even a Senior Pastor, and we have a right to share the truth about what is and has been going on at CCV for more than 30 years. Bob always seems to characterize his bad deeds as something that used to be a problem. Well, I for one, would not be concerned at all if these things had taken place long ago and were reconciled not only with God, but also with the person offended. But we are witnessing a continuous flow of abusive behavior for three decades at least. There are people we can name on here that had their lives rattled back in the 80′s, the 90′s, and now in the new century. He has burned his own staff and long time members in just the past year and a few months since this blog began.

    I think we are much too tolerant a people. Christians are so wimpish sometimes thinking that holding someone, especially a pastor, to a minimum standard of behavior is being judgemental and unloving. We need to get some teeth back into our faith and stand with the Lord against all forms of evil, even evil within Evangelical Christian leadership. I am inspired by Tina Jenkins who’s stand against Bob Grenier was and is a real display of courage and holy righteousness. Tina is no wimp, and that is why I love her. May others be inspired by her indignation and be determined to never let a man, and especially a religious leader, lord over their souls again.

  30. Mr. Wide – or is it Mr. Awake? Anyway, your summarization of the complexity/simplicity of BobbyG is dead on! We all thought that we truly knew the man standing in the pulpit, but just like Dorothy and Oz, all is not as it appears once you’ve looked behind the curtains.

    I agree with your last paragraph. Just this morning I read on MSNBC about a pastor being charged with several counts of rape, some of which occurred behind the sanctuary. A congregational member was quoted as saying, “Nobody is leaving, they are staying right here. They are just worshipping God. They are not condemning. They are not tearing down or poor-mouthing or bad-mouthing him,”. OK, I can hear it now, “…presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law…”.

    Sadly though, that same reaction will more than likely be repeated even if that pastor is found guilty. It’s the same line of reasoning that many of the CCV/Grenier faithful hold to: No pastor is perfect… There’s sin in every pulpit… Let him who is without sin… etc. I think that the fact of the matter is that most American Christians would defend their pastor way beyond the point of being loyal and supportive. I know that most of the CCV “faithfuls” will refuse to discipline Bob, even though the truth will be shown “beyond a reasonable doubt” because they THINK they know him too well. They will need to look behind the curtains before they will really know the authentic Bob.

    May God be glorified by pulling back the curtains so that the truth can be known by all.

  31. JonD-

    What you are saying is exactly what I have found in my own experience and what I believe is true about most at my old CC.
    They will defend the Pastor even if proven he has sinned because for some reason grace triumphs over discipline all the time.
    I remember when I had a situation with one of my children at a church bible study. One child was constantly bullying mine (this child had a history of previous bullying mine which is another story all together) and it got to the point where I believed that discipline was in order, and expressed it to the leader of the study. I was not present at the study but other mothers who were volunteering expressed to me that with this child in the study (this “child” was actually 12 or 13 years old so old enough) was making them “pull their hair out” (or similar words spoken to me). I asked the leader why she won’t discipline her, and that I was very upset this behavior is continuing. I will tell you that the response given was similar to this ..”We are all sinners and we need to show the love of Christ to this child”. So I expressed that I did not believe that allowing this behavior is pleasing to God and if they were unwilling to show godly discipline and correction, I was taking my child out of the group. Guess what? They let ME leave and continued to MINISTER to this child!

    So my experience is that they will favor the sin, rather than correct the sinner.

    So how can we expect these people to want to correct the Pastor, when under his authority, the sinner gets away with the sin?

    I think it must have made that group leader feel really good to have my child sacrificed in order to give her a sense of accomplishment in trying to convert this sinner to better behavior..eventually. I just can’t figure out the thought process of how the minds of some of these believers work. Needless to say it was very hurtful for my child to experience this, gave her justifiably a bad witness for the “church”.
    Of course I can’t judge anyones thoughts but what I have been told over and over again is “We are just gonna “love on them” (oh, how that term annoys me) and show them the “love of Jesus” so we can convert them. I say love without discipline is no love at all.
    I remember this leader saying that to me with a big smile on her face…as we ealked out the door.

    Even when you give them the verses “To whom God loves, He disciplines”, it goes out in one ear and out the other.

  32. “I believe that God allows the evil and the evildoers to have their fling; He allows them rope, licence, as it were, in order to make their overthrow more complete and sure. Biblical history is really an exposition of this principle. God seems to be asleep and the enemy rises. He blasphemes the name of God. Think of it in the case of Assyria. … They inflated themselves almost to the heavens … Then God suddenly pricked the bubble and the whole empire collapsed…”
    Martyn Lloyd-Jones

  33. WA-

    Yes, but it doesn’t seem to help at the time your kids are getting a view on the corrupt thinking and values of the church, and this poor witness turns them away from “church”… When everything you are trying to teach them about God gets thrown right out the door.

    The Calvanists may say that God in His sovereignty allows all things for His purposes so we are to rejoice in persecution of any kind.
    Still trying to get my mind around all that and of course Romans 8:28.
    Guess the blessings for all this will come one day..in heaven

  34. “No one will calmly and quietly submit to bear the cross except those who have learned to seek their happiness beyond this world.” John Calvin

  35. Did you ever consider that the Lord may be using this blog as a voice of final warning and call to repentance within CC before He judges???

    And He said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? Is it a trivial thing to the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they commit here? For they have filled the land with violence; then they have returned to provoke Me to anger. Indeed they put the branch to their nose. 18 Therefore I also will act in fury. My eye will not spare nor will I have pity; and though they cry in My ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.” Eze 8:17-18

  36. Wide Awake #29 – Amen and Amen!

  37. I distrust the wisdom if not the sincerity of friends who would hold my hands while my enemies stab me.

    Abraham Lincoln

  38. God will take care of all the problems that are happening at Calvary Chapel Visalia and the other CC’s as well. We just have to be patient and trust in him which I continue to struggle with at times.

    Hannah I think I read a post by you and I also believe God has kept me as a loner so to speak as well as my husband, so we could deal with our situation. God will use the strong people to complete his tasks at revealing corrupt people. Be strong!

  39. Eyes Wide Open-

    As I have been pondering my posts this morning, I am reminded as you say Who is in control.
    I vasilate (Sp?) back and forth, so I guess it is a matter of trusting God in all things regardless of whether I see the results now or later.
    Paul is a good reminder of waiting on God and trusting God.
    It is all a lesson on growing in our faith and relinquishing our lives to Him.

    I think at this point I will take some time away and just pray that God’s will be done in this situation.

    Prayer is really all we have.
    To rehash the past is not productive.

    Peace to all.

  40. I know in my situation my faith has grown through all my troubles and it has made me a stronger person. He has led me just where I am at even though it can be painful Thank you God for everything you have done….

    My prayer today is for all our Pastors that are abusing Gods children to repent.. Just please stop..

    I also pray for the person that has hurt my family and wish him no harm just to realize hes wrong and stop…..

    We don’t have much time left here on this earth this place is only temporary my heart cries out for everyone today…

    God Bless…

  41. Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia, I am more convinced than ever, that your day in court is coming. You, Dino, and Raul may have a lot of time to review your verses together. Better buy a new Bible while you still have freedom to.

  42. If you are all beginning to follow these recent revelations, keep in mind that Paul Grenier has accused his father of sexual molestation, and three of Bob Grenier’s sons Alex, Geoff, and Paul) have filed a police report stating serious child abuse in their home. One recent former CC pastor has been sentenced to 18 years for molesting young girls/daughters in his home. Now this huge suit leveled against CCCM. Bob Grenier must be ‘on deck’, because the allegations against him are incredibly damning if found true. This is all an incrediblly sad state of affairs. I don’t care what biblical justification Chuck Smith used to create the CC model, he is responsible for setting the example of ‘restoring’ fallen men back into the pulpit. No man who @#%*s another child or woman should ever be allowed to call themselves a pastor of anything. That includes David Hocking and all the other bozos who have golden glands and live far above the law.

  43. I’m sorry folks but I can’t resist. Just listened to one of Bob Grenier’s most recent videoslicks. He is one of the biggest windbags on YouTube. When the context of his life changes in the next couple of years, relisten to some of these recordings to see who was the greater fool.

  44. I watched some of his videos also, I agree with Wide Awake. He is so busy with his Blog, Twitter if you read his tweets kind of makes you disgusted. He is so full of himself don’t know how people who attend Calvary Chapel Visalia can continue to follow this man after reading all of the complaints of Pastor Bob Grenier on this site. Alex you and the others who have been hurt by BG will win in the end never give up. This blog has helped me and many others.

  45. By the way if you have a problem at CCV with someone who attends there and you confide or ask for advice from BG he will ask you what the other parties name is. Wouldn’t you think that he wouldn’t want to know the name since that would create a conflict. Naw I think he likes gossip also. :)

  46. Eyes Wide Open, yes, I can confirm that.

    Bob would talk about intimate details of counseling sessions and people’s (what they thought was) private counsel from their trusted Pastor. Not so.

    Bob talked about the stuff, was very interested in it and even tape recorded counseling sessions of a woman.

    Bob Grenier later used information he gained from counseling people against them when they ended up on the wrong side of him. He was very sly about getting the information out there…but make no mistake, he got it out there…and behind the scenes he would be much more direct about it.

    Bob loves having the dirt on people and uses it to try and keep them quiet and to smear them to his remaining faithful by deflecting attention away from his sins, abuses and wrongdoing by pointing the finger at his victims.

    Bob Grenier won’t win any Righteousness Contests…he will win quite a few Sin Contests though.

  47. Now that many of you are tuning in, if you can stomach this, watch a few of these infomercials. This guy has lost it and has a completely seared conscience…

    http://www.ccvisalia.com/pastor-bob/daily-devotional.html

    “Secondly, have our conduct, or to conduct yourselves day to day, honorably….or in the right way, or righteously, to live righteously, among the Gentiles, or the unsaved of this world.

    Two reasons are given here. When they speak evil of you, and against you, ( which they surely were, and do today ) they may by your good works, or the right way that you are living, ( as they observe you ) which they were then, and are today, that they may Glorify God in the day of visitation.

    Unbelievers will slander those who believe, they will call what you are doing evil and wrong. But, as they witness your good deeds, in what Peter calls the day of visitation.

    That could be the day these unbelievers come under conviction, and their eyes are opened to see what you truly are, or it could be reference to the day of Judgement. They will admit it on that day, that you lived the right way, and it will bring honor to the Lord, who has saved you and worked in your life.

    Well, that’s plenty to think about today, and to digest, and to put into practice.”

    Today’s devotional from the high and holy Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia. My mocking him makes me an unbeliever according to him. I can make a similar case about him.

    Jesus once said which is easier to say, “I forgive your sins, or say, Get up. Pick up your stretcher and start walking.” When I actually see enough practical living and walking of these truths in Bob Grenier’s life, then I’ll begin to believe that God has done a miraculous work in his life.

  48. Wide Awake, that was sickening. He looks terrible, even for him.

    Every time I hear him speak, I can only think of Matthew 23, 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, Matthew 18 and 1 Timothy 5:19-22.

  49. I hate to drive web traffic his way but I want people to hear for themselves how this imposter spins his webs. No pun intended.

    Pjay, Jeff S, and the others who have come to Alex’s aide, bless you! I don’t know anything about you but sense from your writings on here that you have counted the cost to stand against this detestable evil. None of us want to believe any of this is true but it is. Someday I would like to shake your hands. In your presence, please forgive me for taking too much liberty in my writing here. I have been extreme sometimes and it has probably not sat well with some. My take is that these men have been corrupted by the big sins the Bible plainly warns about. I have never felt CC was a special child of God with a clearer vision than other hair-splitting denominations. I saw the same spiritual pride that many denominations fall into. This day was bound to come in light of the way Chuck Smith positioned himself.

  50. I suggest contacting the state Attorney General in writing to see if they will pick up the case of financial irregularities. I think that any church bringing in over a certain amount, say $100.000, in offering should be required to file a form 990 with the IRS so that the expenditures and salaries are not kept secret. I am sure the church lobby would hate that but any nonprofit that is not a church has to file a 990 if they bring in $25,000 or more, and you can go to guidestar.org and check out charities. Also the IRS may be interested although I have never seen a church lose its nonprofit status.

  51. I received this comment from a FB friend who I grew up with at CCV and who was a friend of my brother Robert/Bobby, before Bobby Jr. freaked out on him. This person is a credible known quantity who many people know and respect in Visalia. He has no reason to lie.

    I have been told similar before from other friends of Bobby Jr.’s One thing about Robert/Bobby, he has a hard time towing the lie Bob perpetuates.

    Here’s the comment verbatim (you now have ALL FOUR brothers corroborating physical child abuse, Bob Sr. would be in jail and a felon for this and he is a liar and hypocrite and is lying to this very moment):

    “Alex, for the record, I believe you about Bob. I took Bobby to a race back in 2007 and while driving down, he was telling me how Bob used to beat down you and Jeff in these knock down, drag out fights. (I remember thinking…dang, Jeff was pretty big, your dad must have been pretty tough.) But it just rubbed me the wrong way how he was describing it like it was totally normal stuff. And you can’t tell me that kid isn’t messed up…yikes. I already told you how he turned on me.”

  52. I will be sending the above comment that is evidence of corroboration of the child abuse by the fourth brother to Chuck Smith, Roger Wing and Brian Brodersen of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. I am sure, however, they will continue to ignore the allegations against Bob Grenier who is in a Position of Trust as a Chuck Smith endorsed Dove-toting Calvary Chapel Pastor.

  53. Crosbycat, yes. That option is going to be pursued and not just for Calvary Chapel Visalia and Bob Grenier. There are some pretty serious issues that the California AG’s office needs to look into with some SoCal CC’s as well.

  54. Haha…check this out. Bob Grenier giving advise on:

    “How to get along with your boss..

    The verses below in 1st Peter 2:18-21 deal with how a servant/slave in the culture of Peter’s day was to relate to their master. The teaching here would apply also to modern day employees and employers.
    Please see the two different scenario’s that Peter lists. And the example God has given us to follow in matters of work, suffering etc.

    1Pet 1:18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

    1Pet 1:19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.

    1Pet 1:20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.

    1Pet 1:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

    Firstly, servants were to be submissive to their masters, and they were to do this with all respect, and it was not only to the good and the gentle, but also to the harsh.
    Submission, means to come under, to rank under, to submit yourself to, place yourself under your master.
    And Peter says, to be submissive, not only to a good, and gentle master, but also to one that might be harsh. Harsh means, crooked, untoward, unfair. ( Note, this is not a call to participate in any action or attitude that is against the Word of God, or one’s own conscience. It’s just speaking of the general attitude one is to have towards their master, boss, employer )

    Secondly, Peter explains that this attitude of submission, ( especially if you are submitting because you know it’s the right thing to do, and you happen to be enduring grief, and you are suffering in this situation ) That, one’s submission, is commendable to God. Which means the gracious and kind thing to do.

    Peter then reasons, that if you are suffering because of your own faults and you are taking it patiently, that is really no credit to you. But, if on the other hand, when you have done well, and done what is right, and you are still suffering, and at this point you take it patiently, then, this is indeed commendable before God. It means, that you are showing grace and kindness in the face of difficulty, which is the call upon our lives.

    Finally, Peter explains that this gracious attitude, is what we are called to. Jesus suffered for us, and He had done nothing wrong, yet He was gracious in His sufferings, and He left us an example to follow. His example of how to act when being mistreated.”

    What do you think about that Jim, Tina, the Johnson boys, etc., etc., etc.? He has the gall to tell you how to behave toward your Boss?! His very next infomercial tells you how to deal with suffering. Dear God, please help this man. He has been stuck on that topic for decades now. Come on Bob…it’s time for some fresh new sermons. Why don’t you go into the Minor Prophets for awhile, or camp on Malachi? Teach the whole counsel of God. The ‘simple’ stuff is no challenge for you anymore.

  55. Interesting. So when someone else uses the Calvary Chapel Church Credit Card/monies for something personal, Bob calls it “Stealing”…and it’s a fireable offense.

    When Bob Grenier uses Calvary Chapel Church monies for personal items and expenses like buying his son Paul Grenier a pair of expensive sun glasses at South Coast Plaza from cash from the church envelope and doesn’t pay it back or account for it, and when Bob Grenier spends the church money on all manner of personal expenses like paying his gas, etc to go to a U2 Concert etc, it’s called “Doing the work of the Lord!”.

    Bob Grenier is a thief and a liar and should be judged by the same Standard he judges others.

  56. Amen…that punk has gotten away with far too much…

  57. Wide Awake, that’s some classic Bob Grenier right there in that devotional above.

    “You are called to take my abuse and corruption! Suffer it for Christ! Obey the Word!”

    What a crock.

  58. Today Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia (want to help boost his Google ratings don’t you?) published a new infomercial on how a wife can win the heart of an unbelieving husband. In the background I could her his wife Gayle banging a few pots and pans in the kitchen. I wonder if that was her contribution of worhsip music or just a way to cover up the white noise she was hearing out on the porch?

  59. Just thought I would tell you mr. bob grenier that your videos are as up to date as your shirts. I suggest you get a better cameraman. Your head is very disproportionate to your body. Everytime you speak, I can see the roof of your mouth. Just trying to give you a heads up about the amateur appearance on the blog…call your webmaster asap.

  60. Greg and Susie Dowds, and Mike and Terri Buford are guilty of aiding and shielding the victious behavior of Bob Grenier. We all know what goes on behind closed doors, and you all should be ashamed of yourselves!

  61. Amen, WA! I don’t understand, are they just weak people?

  62. That infomercial is just a way to keep us woman in line. We are to keep our mouths shut and just say nothing.

    If we are witnessing abuse or are being abused. Or someone who steals or lies and is a christian….are we to keep quiet?

    I am a sinner but stealing, abuse is not something I will keep quiet on…

    I am a very gentle, loving, quiet wife but I gave “someone” the benefit of the doubt and waited for years to gather all the evidence to mount up to see “PROOF” then I said something. What does a person do when the Pastor of a church tells you don’t have both sides to a story ? But you don’t need it because you have seen the proof…?

  63. I have so much I want to say but don’t have the right words..

  64. Alex,

    Just a suggestion, maybe another blog can be added for some people that are having experiences they have had while attending Calvary Chapel Churches.

    But there situations may not directly relate to some of the situations on here. I feel that is where I would leave my posts.

    IMO, there would be many who would leave posts who have had an experience they would like to share but don’t feel as though there input is as important as the others on here or don’t have the right words as I struggle with also..

  65. Since the site is about Abuse and Corruption with Pastors, Leaders at CC and some may feel there story isn’t quite that. The posts can be intimidating at times to respond.

  66. EYO, just share your heart. Abuse of the Spiritual Relationship between what is supposed to be a Scripturally Called and Qualified Servant Leader and a lay-person is wrong and something that should be called out and corrected/repented of.

    I can start a separate Thread. What do you think it should be titled?

  67. WA and Summer, Mike Buford is scared to death of Bob Grenier and Mike has been groomed by Bob for a long long time…much like a pedophile grooms his victims.

    Mike Buford has Battered Wives Syndrome.

    The Dowds? No excuse. They are privy to way too much, have facilitated way too much and they have compromised big time. They have been paid monies to Sue Dowds for work that Greg Dowds does in the Calvary Cafe so as to avoid Disability Conflicts with Greg’s situation.

  68. Your better at that :)

    Sometimes it happens when fellow Christians that attend CC abuse, steal, lie as well and the pastors won’t do anything about it…
    We need to remember that there are new christians within CC and are in smaller churches in places that we may not think of abuse happening. Make it so people feel comfortable, able to share but let them know there posts will be removed if anything is off base.

  69. I would like to thank Alex for this. My discernment level has just kicked into high gear as I attend a CC in NORCAL and have had Bob speak once at our church. Keep up the good work I am praying hard for you and for Bob to be removed from his position. God has a plan for him and it’s going to be interesting watching the downfall.

  70. Quickgreen71, welcome. Sorry it’s under these circumstances, but welcome just the same.

    Bob Grenier has carefully constructed quite a facade over the many years. He is not Qualified to be a representative of Jesus Christ as a Pastor/Elder. I don’t assume to know his Salvational Status as only God can make that Judgment (as Bob ‘professes’ Faith and says some of the right words etc)….however, there is little good fruit and much bad fruit.

    I have followed the Scriptural Process from day one. Bob hasn’t submitted to that Process and hasn’t been truthful. Much much more has come out since I started that Process over 6 years ago.

  71. Alex,

    Like I stated before my discernment meter is cranked to the max, but I believe our CCSP is one of the good fruits. I am composing an e-mail tonight to ask our Pastor what he thinks of the abuse by Bob and as CC as a whole, and am praying I don’t get the standard CC answer.

  72. Recently Alex shared that there has been 40,000 original hits on this blog with an overall visitation of 500,000 hits. That is just astounding if you dwell on that. I don’t know how many of you will read this particular post but I want to share something with all of you. The origins of this blog are the result of a complete shunning of Alex Grenier and his two other brothers (Bob Grenier’s son’s) for attempting to confront their father with alleged child abuse in their home as children. They were faced with no recourse to get a fair hearing regarding these allegations, so they went public. This blog seemed to uncover a pattern of behavior no one in their wildest dreams thought was possible. And that was just initially focused on the life and behaviors of Bob Grenier. But now we know that there appears to be a very tangled web of relationships among some prominent senior CC pastors where these behaviors appear to be the norm rather than the exception. Bob Grenier and his Elder Board’s stubbornness to address these accusations in a Biblical manner has lead to this becoming an international story. (Look on the visitor map to see how widespread this blog is) Two years after its inception, only after Alex Grenier calls Chuck Smith directly, Chuck Smith agrees to a formal hearing for Alex and others to lay out the allegations so many can consider what may have taken place. I applaud Mr. Smith for agreeing to this meeting but the readers must be clear on this fact, Chuck Smith must have known about these allegations at least a year ago (Due to a story that broke in the OC Weekly naming Bob Grenier and his sons, and their connection to CCCM) and he did nothing about it. Within that year, CS came to CC Visalia on a Reunion Tour, and acted as though there was no crisis in the works. At that very time, CCV staff members and church attenders were dropping like flies and all the leaders turned a blind eye to it all. I think you can understand why it is so difficult for Alex to keep his cool during all this posturing and indifference.

    I believe, from what Alex has shared on this blog, that he has been given many pages of carefully written testimonies that outline some very startling things that Bob Grenier has done as recent as this past month. As an advocate for justice on this blog, I would like to appeal to those of you who have first-hand, eye-witness accounts of Bob Grenier’s alleged misconduct to stand with Alex as much as possible at this time. He still has vivid memories of his life at home under Bob Grenier.(Alex cover your eyes hear) He is reading horrendous accounts that others have experienced under BG’s authoritative hand. He is viewing BG’s recent daily devotionals to have a context to speak from, and believe me, if you know BG well and are aware of what can and does go one behind closed doors, then you would find these videos infuriating. I do not encourage any of you to watch these on the CCV website, mainly because they would indirectly stroke his ego. But all 40,000 of you…if you want to see a wolf in sheeps clothes, there is no one better to view than Bob Grenier. He has assumed a Napoleon-syndrome, acting as a General to rally the troops before they suffer ‘righteously’ once again.

    Mr. Smith, if you or any associates are reading this blog at this moment, the pile of refuse is so thick at CCV now it’s hard to find the cow.

    mr. grenier…you are going to eat your own refuse before too long, and I hope you eat it slow. You cannot beat the crap out of your kids, and squash the spiritual life out of so many fine children of God and get away with it. I am going to refer to you as Napolean Ichabod from now on. You are a stench that needs to be cleansed. May God strike your ability to speak.

  73. WA~

    I for one am reading your post and agree with you on every point!

  74. I just wish Wide Awake would say what he/she really means! ;)

  75. Whoops…was I beating around the bush again?

  76. Thanks Janelle…breathing that pure Oregon air makes you a very reasonable, as well as a cool, person!

  77. Very nice WA. Well put.

  78. Ok everyone…critical mass has been nearly reached. The ball is rolling and now we will see what happens with mr. bob ‘Ichabod’ grenier. Love you Alex. Time for me to cool my jets…

  79. The opening chapters of The Divine Conspiracy, by Dallas Willard, speaks to much that is cast as christian discipleship today. It may be possible to get your mind around how a man like bob grenier can say and do what he does in public, yet be so polar opposite in private. Those of you who have read Willard carefully, may find his assessment close to what Ichabod Grenier displays in his life as a consistant pattern of behavior.

  80. Through backchannels, I keep hearing of many significant former members of Calvary Chapel Visalia who have chosen to leave for good. I won’t mention their names here due to the uncomfortable position it puts them in. It is not the intent of this blog to bring division within CCV but only to put the church on high alert as to the tactics and character of their ‘pastor’. We are so relieved that many of you reading here no longer have to live under the cloud of oppression that bob grenier held you under for so long. I hope you will eventually reach a point that you can discuss your trauma on here. Be assured of this, bob grenier is clearly in the wrong no matter what public image he is able to craft for others to see.

    bob grenier of calvary chapel visalia is currently intensifying a propaganda campaign to clear his tainted image. Today, he is leading a Community Service in honor of the 9/11 Victims. Once again, he has successfully co-opted the larger ministerial association of area pastors to join him in this event. His name was in the first sentence of an article in one of the local papers stating that he and the lead pastors at First Assembly of God Church in Visalia, along with other area minisrty leaders, were offering a memorial service for the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 tragedy. He is a predictable opportunist, and is advertising to draw more to his fellowship due to a rapidly declining attendance. I find it very hard to understand why the Visalia religious community is not more suspicious of this man. All I can think of is that few in Visalia are willing to go public and insist that this ‘pastor’ answer to the serious claims against him.

    To those who are now free of bob grenier’s oversight, I wish you nothing but the joy unspeakable that comes when God fully invades your soul. I wish it would be appropriate to mention you one by one on here and bless you for your courage. Please stand with us to expose this sick and deceived man.

  81. Ever have the old Bob use something you shared in confidence against you as an object lesson in one of his sermons? Naaaah, he doesn’t gossip. He just spins it in his crazy spiritual washing machine and out comes your dirty laundry. Great control tactic for the newbies/uninitiated but won’t phase his “experienced” targets. It’s also not exactly consistent with having the heart of a pastor.

    Listen to the oldie “Dirty Laundry” by Don Henley and see if anything remotely rings a bell or fits:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46bBWBG9r2o

    I make my living off the evening news
    Just give me something, something I can use
    People love it when you lose, they love dirty laundry

    Well, I could’ve been an actor, but I wound up here
    I just have to look good, I don’t have to be clear
    Come and whisper in my ear, give us dirty laundry

    Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
    Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
    Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
    Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em all around

    We got the bubbleheaded bleach-blonde, comes on at 5
    She can tell you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye
    It’s interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry

    Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet?
    You know the boys in the newsroom got a running bet
    Get the widow on the set, we need dirty laundry

    You don’t really need to find out what’s going on
    You don’t really want to know just how far it’s gone
    Just leave well enough alone, keep your dirty laundry

    Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
    Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
    Kick ‘em when they’re up, kick ‘em when they’re down
    Kick ‘em when they’re stiff, kick ‘em all around

    Dirty little secrets, dirty little lies
    We got our dirty little fingers in everybody’s pie
    Love to cut you down to size, we love dirty laundry

    We can do the innuendo, we can dance and sing
    When it’s said and done, we haven’t told you a thing
    We all know that cr@p is king, give us dirty laundry

  82. Ok…now for some word associations…

    What do these men (Bob Dowds, Mike Buford, Doug Garrison, Jeff Fly, Brent Calvin, Sheriff Bill Whitman, DA Phil Cline, and Andy Mangano) have in common with Bob Grenier (an accused abuser of his three sons,etc.) ? They have all defended Grenier’s character up to this day. I will submit that that is a thoroughly unwise thing to do. It’s time for you Visalians to garner up some courage, and ask these men what convinces them that Bob Grenier’s sons are lying. They are all rational men. Let’s see if they give a rational answer.

  83. That is very disheartening to see public safety backing up someone with many years of allegations of abuse. What would be there reasoning to back that person up?

  84. This is an open letter to the Pastors of Visalia California

    Many years ago, Bob Grenier lead a large group of local pastors to sign a public rebuke of a ministry called Set Free. Alex Grenier now has a copy of the original letter circulated throughout Visalia. This public rebuke was effective in running this ministry and the minister out of town.

    This blog has spent two years documenting far worst offenses that Bob Grenier commited than what concerned Bob Grenier about this Set Free Ministry. I would like to alert all Visalia and Tulare County area ministers to be on high alert about the wreckless behavior this Calvary Chapel pastor is accused of. I can assure you that everything shared here can be verified and documented. Many of the victims I am aware of were willing to take a legal deposition to underscore their testimonies. The testimonies are very damaging and their truthfulness can be substantiated by enough eye witnesses. I know you may find this hard to believe but in time, more information will become public to show that what was shared here is only a sampling of the depth of this problem. It pains many of us to make this so public but Bob Grenier is a very stubborn man and will not listen to anyone other than himself. If you have worked with him in any capacity, or have listened carefully to the many former CCV member’s painful personal stories, then you know I am not fabricating a story here. Again, I say be on your highest alert regarding your association with this man.

    (If you care to, please pass this open letter to any local pastor in the Visalia area that you know personally. We want them to be prepared for the fallout if and when Bob Grenier is fully exposed, and removed from his position.)

  85. Recent quote from Michael on the Phoenix Preacher blog:

    Bob Grenier is “hosting” a pastors conference this week…which is like me “hosting” the next conference of the Womens Christian Temperance Union.

    I don’t think he will be ‘hosting’ anything from this day on except a tea party with his favorite cat.

  86. WA, Looks like those pots are gone

  87. posts

  88. so far…

  89. There’s a new youtube video that BG has done for ATN World News. I went to the ATN site and thought to myself, “Is Bob going Robert Tilton on us”? He’s telling people to call in for prayer. It very much reminds me of some of these televangelists!

  90. Here is the link. Check out the videos posted.

    http://www.atnworldnews.com/

    It seems pretty kooky to me.

  91. And…..here’s another one. Really?…….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khojk68zrUw&feature=related

  92. All I can say is WOW!

  93. Thanks Summer. For what is now known about bob grenier, he is a thoroughly deceived lunatic. He has denied his sin for so long that he believes everything he says about himself without being rooted in reality. Thank goodness that a critical mass of humanity are now completely convinced that this man is unhinged. Just keep watching to see what length he will go to to fight the accusations. You haven’t seen anything yet…

  94. Summer, he’s one weird dude. Yikes.

    Hey Bob, are you really from Calvary Chapel Visalia in Visalia California? Maybe you could repeat it a few more times for us…I don’t think we grasped that.

    Oh, and make sure to speak slower and over-enunciate each word for us. Thanks.

  95. Here’s another link on the same site. This man says he’s a pastor to the abused.

    http://chaplainpastor.wordpress.com/about/

  96. Thanks Summer, I’m going to ask the ATN “pastor to the abused” to see if he can help me with his buddy Bob on the ATN site.

  97. Well, I posted on his blog, but it’s in moderation.

  98. Summer & Alex~

    I just viewed a couple of the videos of bob and is it just me or do his eyes look as if he is on something? My own personal opinion is yes they do. Be sure to put a dislike or comment if you would like too.

  99. ATN News…now that is one heck of a professional news organization. Leah’s home videos are a little worst than the Calvary Chapel Visalia of Visalia California pastor on call for prayer dude. (Just trying to sound as hip as the ATN reporter). They are a happenin’ crowd. I see why they welcomed hipster bob grenier. He’s got great hair!

    Here’s some news for you Leah…Bob Grenier is a man on the run. Why? Because the gig is up. He’s been found out. Keep your eye on the future. I don’t think the Lord will return before your realize that you have a devil on the Evening News. Beware.

  100. It’s probably just another attempt at getting his websites at the top of the search engine pages, instead of thone site and the other negative publicity sites. I’m sure someone he has paid a bunch of money to has given him this over exposing advice. Probably sunk a lot in adwords also. But it won’t work. We talk about him way more then he can. He does seem to be very serious about being heard. The same boring babble he has always droned on with. Like he’s talking to a sofisticated 3 year old.

    Hey bob, how about you talk to us so we can shut this whole thing down and go away. Wouldn’t that be easier? Cost a heck of a lot less, I’m sure. How’s that character holding up bob? Still think people think highly of yours?

  101. Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.
    Abraham Lincoln

  102. The reason this guy is going on ATN and “volunteering” himself and his “team” (I wonder if there is a team that he has actually informed yet) it very simple. M O N E Y. If you can pull in people and get them to believe that you really care about them, toss them some good bones, win them over to you, etc. Then he will go in and ask those to support the “ministry” to continue the help he brought to them. My goodness, wouldn’t he be super busy with his own church and not have time for this? Guess not. He needs to “partner” with those who know nothing about him to gain followers. I just can’t see any other reason for him to get involved. You may think he is nuts, but I tend to think a con artist or Pharisee is quite smart!

    I sure hope he would repeat who he is. I wasn’t sure I fully understood what he said. Was it Pastor Bob, Pastor Bob Grenier of Visalia or Pastor Bob Grenier. I must go watch that again. His eyes just suck me into this hypnotic state and I want to give him all my money.

  103. Lol

  104. I don’t feel right commenting on a man I don’t know, but I do feel he has a “stare” that scares.
    And I do agree with Janelle that he seems as if he is “on” something.
    Also, it is very unprofessional as a Pastor to do Youtubes in your own home.
    Just my opinion..
    But it does promote the “comfy” feeling that you can know him.
    There is no emotion in him, he is monotone. It is almost as if he is not real.
    No change in facial expressions. I have watched about 10 on his website. All the same.
    But on the flip side, I am used to the “celebrity actor” type Pastor. Overacting.

    Alex- I have said this several times and maybe you can ask others.
    When I try torlead any of the first few CCabuse pages, when I search “Bob Grenier” I can’t get this blog. The sites appear on the search page, but then when I try and open,iIt says “pages not found” for the first 2.
    Could that only be happening to me, or do you think someone can be doing this to prevent others from seeing this site?

  105. torlead= to read…

  106. OK..I tried again.
    When I tried “Pastor Bob Grenier” I got “website page not found” on the /abuse and corruption thread
    Then I tried “Bob Grenier” and I could open the ?abuse and corruption.
    I also tried “Bob Grenier Visalia” and could open.

    So then I went back and tried “Pastor Bob Grenier” and the same /abuse and corruption now opened!

    So I have no idea why it doesn’t open on “Pastor Bob Grenier” the first time.

  107. OK..So now I try “Pastor Bob Grenier”again, it lists the 7/20 thread and again when I click I get “web page not found”…
    :(

  108. Captivated…I have begun to use the term ‘lunatic’ to describe bob grenier but I have always thought of him as a Master Con artist after I was made aware of the numerous times he escaped having his facade exposed to the world. I agree with you…he is very cunning and quite smart in a bad way. He once told me he would make a good lawyer. I don’t doubt it. I now move to a ‘cunning lunatic’ because his rationality is causing his known world to constrict around him ever more tightly. Fewer and fewer people will associate with him, and he will find himself preaching to the mirror. If he stays on this path of stubborn and willful defiance (something he completely redefines as ‘suffering for righteousness sake’), then I believe he may take the path of King Saul in the Bible, eventually eating grass, and mumbling incoherent phrases into the wind. I am completely serious here. Just watch. Right now his actions are very carefully calculated. His rope is very short now and time will reveal his fate.

  109. For years, I haven’t wanted to believe Bob was a con-man, but rather just deeply entrenched in sin and deceived (but not intentional).

    Now that stuff has gone this public, even to Chuck Smith, and that I’ve found out how much bad stuff he’s done for so long (in addition to the Child Abuse, etc)….I have deep suspicion it’s all a big Con.

    If he still doesn’t come clean after all this, it tells me he is completely intentional about his wrongdoing and a con-man.

  110. Hannah, sorry, don’t know what to tell you, when I google Bob Grenier this site and the Abuse and Corruption article comes up, same with Pastor Bob Grenier, etc.

  111. I think the ATN thing is to try and up his SEO (Search Engine Optimization) ranking, to try and get money and because Bob thinks he’s important and should be on the news, even if it’s some obscure site like ATN.

    Well, Bob Grenier’s gonna get on the news again, eventually.

  112. He sure is…I picture in my mind Haman striding through town with a silly grin on his face, never realizing he is the object of scorn and laughter. What a colosal fool he is!

  113. “If he still doesn’t come clean after all this, it tells me he is completely intentional about his wrongdoing and a con-man.”

    But if the dove is taken away, he will have to come clean, right?
    His empire is taken away.

  114. To all the former CCVers who have chosen to leave and find another fellowship to join,

    Because you have been under such an oppressive system for a significant period of time, I suggest you allow yourselves some time to debrief before you settle back into a church fellowship. Find one or two couples or individuals to stick closely to for accountability. In transition, the Devil will tempt you in your weak areas where you are most vulnerable. Be on high alert. Find someone to counsel with about your experience at CCV. Get it out of your system so bitterness does not take root. Then find a church where one of your friends attends, and consider staying there until your mind clears and your spiritual footing is firmly back on the ground. If you must go on a search for a new fellowship different from your friend’s church, you will be in a much better frame of mind to discover where God is leading you.

    You will have been changed forever. You will be disappointed with church at times. It won’t feel exactly the same as your best days in the past. There are no perfect church settings but it is possible to find a satisfying place to worship. Keep an open mind and seek to learn something from a different perspective. Grow in the Lord. He is found in many places you would be surprised about. Walk in humility because there are alot of burned people out there, and you don’t want to cause any to stumble in their weakened state. God bless your new adventure in faith.

  115. Alex…how much longer must this bag of over-composted bovine fodder be around plaguing Visalia? I would much rather listen to the moo of a cow than to hear the steady drone of a pesky mosquito. Waiting to see who is going to swat that nasty thing…

  116. Looks like Bob and clan are planning a June 2012 Alaskan “inspirational cruise.” Check out the speakers that he’s invited as you may get a better idea of who’s currently still “aligned” with him. It’s all CC stuff–no outside speakers apparently.

    http://www.inspirationcruises.com/christian-cruises/calvary-chapel-visalia-alaska

  117. Maybe we should have a sidebar of all who show actual support for Bob like this.

  118. OK, those people (pastors and wives) obviously have no common sense.

  119. Bob’s wife doesn’t look too happy in the photo.

    Maybe it is just me, but is anyone else bugged by the fact that these Pastors, their wives, and their staff get to go free while the rest of us have jacked up prices to pay for them?

    It is really, to my, nothing more than a paid vacation for them all.

    I was once a few yrs bacvk going to go on one of these Alaska cruises with a well known ministry and after getting the rates, I checked with the cruise line how much it would be as just a passenger without the group. It was more than 400.00 a person less. So I asked the agent selling the cruise (I think it was imagination cruises) why it was so much more. She said, well, you are paying for the Pastor and the staff to go”. I had no idea they were free..secretary, etc, etc.

    I didn’t think the few sermons were worth the extra $800.00 for us.
    And it rubbed me the wrong way that we were paying for their cruise.

  120. In case my post was confusing…

    $400.00 more per person ($800.00 a couple) more to go with the church than on the same cruise withotu the church.
    Of course if you did not go with the church, you would not be able to attend the sermons.
    Not worth the $800.00 extra.

    So, if there is anyone going on that cruise, book the cruise without the church, hang out with your friends anyway, don’t go to the sermons, and save about $800.00 of the Lords money to give to the needy :mrgreen:

  121. I sound very judgemental so I am repenting publicly.
    I do realize that many would have no problem paying more to afford this “blessing” to their Pastors.
    And they would enjoy the time of worship and fellowship.
    And not even consider the fact that they are “giving” this way, as they see it as giving to the Lord’s servants.

  122. But the giving to pay for the pastor, et al, to go on such a cruise should be public info. People should know up front and not have to find it out on their own. It should be a choice to bless the pastor with this. The pastor should receive it as a blessing humbly, and not present it as the people’s vacation and how they are getting a great deal with being able to hear their preaching.

    My better half and I went to a marriage conference put on by the church to the tune of almost $400. The special speaker was, of course, another CC pastor who knew little about marriage, or longevity of marriage. Both CC pastors speaking were too young and had too many issues in their own marriages to speak to the subject. Frankly, it was a huge waste off money and time.

  123. I have been married for 11 years – if anyone wants to give me $400, I will come and talk to them :) But, you also have to pay for my traveling expenses!

  124. In all fairness, I have to say that the ministry I was going to go with was Chuck Swindoll (or was it Charles Stanley?) It was about 3 yrs ago…maybe that church has many more staff to pay for! But considering how many Pastors are going to be there from other CC’s, maybe it balances out.

    Yes, you are right Grateful. People should know.
    Why does that surprise us?
    But how many people are as scrutinizing (aka annoying) as I am?? :mrgreen:

  125. Hey Ron, what will you be speaking on? :)

  126. Ron…….not married long enough to speak on that!
    You’re still in the “Honeymoon phase”!
    (Unless you have teenagers) :)
    We all know that it takes at least 20 years to have the maturity to speak about marriage… Mid-life crisis+marriage…… :)

  127. Hannah, it would have been my wife who was going to speak – she takes care of me! I would just have been along for the ride :)

  128. Grateful,

    What if the church came away ahead on the deal?
    I was just thinking…how many at 300-400.00 extra (depending whether you have inside cabin, oceanview, balcony) would it take to pay for the staff’s cruise?. If I remember it was anywhere from 800-1500. a person for the cruise, so with that extra $, it would pay for a whole lot of staff. Some churches have staff in the hundreds…maybe almost as many attendees of the church who would go on the cruise .
    Maybe with the extra $ they can go on paid excursions. They are usually in the amount of 50.-150.. per day depending on where you are going.
    I wonder if that is paid for as well, and what catagory of cabins the Pastors get.
    The suites are very costly on cruises.
    Some have butler service as well.

  129. Good answer Ron!

    About the cruise, I have no idea if CCV is handling it the same way as the other ministries, but if they are going with Imagination cruises, this is the same agent the other ministries have used. So I really should not have commented without the facts. I can only comment on what I know.

  130. In Bob’s latest “devotional”, I was struck by how what he was writing and wondering how in the world, *if* he has the Holy Spirit, can say such things without being convicted?

    “Peter goes on to describe the false prophets as being those who are “wells without water” In other words, one would expect to find something in a well, but, these false prophets really have nothing. They appear as if they do, but, they don’t. They are actually being carried about by a tempest. Meaning, there is a power about them, but, it’s a destructive power, a demonic and a lying power. The power of satan. They are in fact, big empty wind bags, with nothing to give.”

    Maybe he should stand in front of a mirror and stay there so that he doesn’t forget what he looks like.

    If you can stomach the rest, go here: http://pastorbobgrenier.blogspot.com/2011/10/false-teachers-what-have-they-done-and.html

  131. Confused…if Bob Grenier says it enough, it becomes true.

    What we need to do is counter-balance it with statements of truth about that windbag. He is that empty windbag he often talks about. He is that demonic, lying, destructive power. If we say it enough, it may become true.

  132. I can’t help it…
    Bob Grenier is the most pig-headed, pompous, arrogant son-of-a-biscuit-eater walking the streets of Visalia, California. He is down-right the most hateful, strife-ridden, crisis-maker this side of the Mississippi. He is the most calloused, wart-like abnormality in ten thousand human beings. He is evil personified. Everywhere he walks, he leave devastation in his wake. A good man? A fine pastor? Are you kidding. Those who really know him, know that he is the suckiest person within this half hemisphere. Do you agree?

    Go soak your head Grenier. You stink!

  133. Well, that sure is putting it nicely. ;)

    I just despise the fact that he is mocking my Lord by writing these “devotionals” when all he is usually doing is using it as a platform to point the finger at people. He does it from the pulpit at church and he does it from these “devotionals”. That’s just sick. Where does his inspiration come from? Certainly not the Holy Spirit.

  134. That’s right Confused. He is dispicable! A shame to humanity. They don’t sink lower than Bob Grenier very often. He is mocking the Lord. He has been mocking the Lord for way too long. He needs his booty kicked in a ‘metaphorical’ sense.

    His ‘devotionals’ are not that. They are infomercials! They are attempts to manipulate and sway. He is not fooling anybody. He is a jackass to the max.

    Roger Wing may have told him he is in the clear but Roger Wing has no idea what is about to slam good old Bob Grenier.

  135. Oh dear God…please hear our petitions tonight. We are overflowing with grief at the mockery that Bob Greneir is bringing on your Church. How can you stand it Lord? I often read of King David’s pleadings with you about the injustices he faced while leading Israel. You always came to his rescue. Are you going to remain silent while Bob Grenier continues to abuse person after person? Certainly not Lord. You are high and lifted up and will not tolerate anyone mocking your holiness. Please swell his tongue in his mouth to the point he is unable to speak more filth. Please liberate your people from this evil man. Bring justice to him now Lord. Please vindicate those who have been crushed by Grenier’s powerful manipulative sneering and conniving personality. Help us Lord keep our sanity and show us we have not failed in following the true Savior. We love you Lord and are very tired of this river of false piety spewing out of Bob Grenier’s mouth. Come and help and show us your mighty hand.

  136. Grateful,
    Just a comment about the marriage conference you attended. You said that “both CC pastors speaking were too young and had too many issues in their own marriages to speak to the subject.” Well, didn’t you recognize this going in? There was a marriage conference in my area a few years ago, the pastor speaking would have been about the same age as the ring bearer in my wedding. I laughed at the ideal and didn’t attend. Sorry it cost you $400 to figure that out.

  137. Luke 12: 1-3

    “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the housetops.”

    This day is coming bob…beware!

  138. Re: Undercover @ 137

    The marriage conference was advertised as just one speaker from another country. We found out after we were there that it was another CC pastor and our pastor, a man we have warned people against going to for marriage counseling under any circumstances.

    The visiting pastor had logged in more years of marriage, but his speaking left much to be desired.

    I do accept full blame for paying $400 for any conference. We don’t do things like that anymore. One of our major beefs with any church is when you have to have money in order to get help studying the Bible, or to attend retreats, etc…

    During a financially tight period, we found we could only go to church on Sunday morning. The Sunday night meeting required money to buy a book they were going through. The Wednesday night service had a kid program that cost money for the kids to attend and didn’t have anything for the kids not doing that program. Kids were not welcome in the service, either. Then there were the home fellowships that required purchasing books or bringing food. And the adult Bible studies were almost always $20 to $30. We couldn’t afford anything but church on Sunday morning.

    I remember thinking that it shouldn’t cost money to gather as Christians and study the Bible together. Jesus was expensive. ;(

  139. #122 Hannah- I agree with Greatful #123. People ought to know they are paying “extra money” if that is the case. So they know what they are paying for and can decide if they think its worth the extra money.

  140. Does any one on this blog recall Aaron Newman? He came to pastor at CCPR. I was the secretary, and a lot of the goings on by Bob are familiar in ccpr before aaron, financially especially. “BOB” i believe was suppose to come over to CCPR and be the guiding force. Aaron systematically dismissed all previous leadership in place and left noone on the “board”. Not once did i see this BOB. Calvary Costa Mesa was made aware by several individuals what previous leadership put the fellowship through. It’s a long story. I feel like I’m not alone after reading all this. Believing in fact that CC leadership has no accountability and left to their own wickedness and abuse of their followers. i do believe cc are cults. the funds that bob “stole” i believe was the non profit, that aaron was in charge of??

  141. Yes Jax, I knew Aaron. What was the story with him? Is he still there? Has he proved to be a “good guy” or bad one? I hope good.

  142. Hi Jax, glad you don’t feel alone anymore. It helps.

  143. I absolutely detest Bob Grenier. Have I ever stated that before? You know why? Because he is a lying sucker who continues to make his sons look like the villians. Grenier is pure evil and his day will come just as the scoundrels in the news today. Mark my words…

  144. What father would not put everything on hold to sit down with his sons and do everything possible to work out whatever has put a wedge between them?

    How much easier when you know what you did was wrong, to then work through it with them, to find out what they need for closure, to find out what you need for complete repentance and total relationship repair.

  145. I hope this post will not get lost in the pile.

    I would like to give tribute to a man who did serve under Bob Grenier as a senior elder board member, and did confront him according to the Scriptures. This man is still alive, in his eighties, and as cheery and godly as ever.

    He was a senior leader in the church at CCV for a long time, a bank officer by trade, and had his signature on the original property note for about a million dollars. He was a man thoroughly versed in the scriptures, as gracious as you could find in a man, and easy to talk to. While serving as a board member, he noticed a number of pastoral expenditures that were questionable. As a bank officer, he knew when things were out of the ordinary. So he did his homework to be truthful in his approach. He brought his concerns up directly to Bob Grenier privately, only to be shut down. He then went to a few others, current pastors and other senior board members to get their advice as to how to proceed in settling these potential improprieties. Once Grenier became aware that these conversations were going on, he went ballistic. This was back in 1994-1995. From that point on, this elder was summarily character assassinated until he was run out of the church. Other individuals who helped this man follow a path that would cause the least amount of harm to the church, were also character assassinated by Bob Grenier. The CCV ‘history books’ tell a very different story of these days. But there are at least 100 people who can confirm that Bob Grenier went all over the city of Visalia to smear this man and his friends. That ladies and gentleman, is the Bob Grenier way to hide his sins.

    I have always felt that this man was thoroughly castigated for no legitimate reason, and to this day (12/9/2011), Bob Grenier has never called GC to apologize for his terrible actions. The former elder moved on in his life and harbors no malice toward BG but if Bob Grenier allows this godly man to die without ever hearing an apology, the sins will become permanent stains on his hands.

    I love you brother GC. You took a stand for righteousness sake and paid a dear price. Thank you for your example of boldness with grace. There are hundreds in Visalia, if they knew what you did to help stop the misappropriations of money at CCV, would pour out their gratitude to you.

    The actions of this man, if they had been paid attention to, could have spared CCV the blood-letting that is happening now, and possibly the indictments that may follow.

  146. As a follow up…

    There were three other senior elders at that time. One was Bob Grenier’s closest friend, the other two were busy businessmen. Of the four senior elders who served in 1995, only two are still at CCV. The elder who has had his letter to Chuck Smith exposed on this blog, has experienced similar treatment as GC by Bob Grenier. This elder has called Bob Grenier to task many times over the years, and one of the Grenier brothers said, “he was a thorn in Bob’s side for years. He was criticized all the time in our home.” This elder was never aware that Bob Grenier had such ill feelings toward him because Grenier was such a smooth operator. Grenier has his spell on one remaining former church elder, a good man like these other two former members, who seemingly cannot see the true nature of Grenier. We all need to pray for him (RR).

    I will tell you all that when these two former senior elders became aware of issues, within this ‘vortex of demonic deception’, that they didn’t sit idly by. They did speak up. But the weight of the problem again should be placed on the shoulders of Bob Grenier for spending so much of his time as a pastor smearing the reputations of good men to cover a multitude of sins that run rampant in his life. Chuck Smith recently said that Alex has no idea the pain he has put his father and mother through in recent years. I say that Chuck Smith has no idea the pain Bob Grenier has put hundreds through over the past 30 years. Chuck said to extend forgiveness and not harbor anger and bitterness. We have and we don’t. Bob Grenier is a ‘loose cannon’, firing at will, and lives without impunity under the holy glow of Mount Calvary. I just want the record to be straight. Bob Grenier is no angel and he has not stopped sinning long enough for us to decide which sin to forgive…

  147. Some of Bob Grenier’s sins:

    He has offended so many brothers, it is impossible to name them all. Because Bob has never reconciled to his brothers in Christ, the Bible says he should not be receiving the Lord’s Supper. He is in essence, taking on the wrath of God for unrepentant sin.

    He has offended and harmed several former senior elders.
    He has offended and harmed several former pastors on his staff.
    He has offended several former church employees.
    And he has offended and harmed countless former CCV church members.

    That’s a big list for a man in his 60′s. No time like now to start the process to seek forgiveness as his Pastor (Chuck) recommends.

  148. Just seems to beg the question though… is Bob an unrepentant believer? or is he a complete phony and an unregenerate man with an evil heart who has found his way into a position of respect and trust?

  149. WA, totally agree. And, I will say this again. If he and his best buddy really loved the sheep they would have stepped down already. Instead, he would rather drag the sheep through the mud with him, using congregant’s loyalty to prop himself up. Even if, for argument’s sake, he was not guilty of anything. It’s reprehensible that he would allow this to go on. I don’t know if he realizes that his name is so looked down on in this community. He is not respected. I talk to people all the time who have no respect for him at all outside of the CCV community. The church needs to wake up and realize this is NOT persecution because he is the ”only” one who teaches the Word in this town.

  150. Hi Summer…The irony is just as you say, Bob Grenier is special in his own eyes, and revered only by those still duped in his church. I saw him last week coming out of a Chipotle Grill restaurant at dusk wearing dark black glasses to cover his eyes, and a black hat pulled down low on his forehead. He has had at least two run-ins at public establishments this Fall, and if another newspaper article comes out, he will have to hibernate at home for a long time. His name is as close to dung as anyone would think. He has burned literally (lit-er-ally) hundreds of people in Visalia, and I know a few pastors that have him figured out already and stay clear of him. I said it before, Bob Grenier’s best days are long gone. And if he is now feeling the pain as a result of this blog, thank God. I was beginning to wonder if he would ever sense the consequences of his horrendous sins.

  151. I was going to post on another thread, but figured I was being long-winded and didn’t want to clog up that thread. Instead, I will continue where I left off in my first post where I replied to Michael Newnham’s podcast. I want to share about our experiences with CCV but I want to do so in a way that brings some closure to my own heart, helps others to see why we left, and to help them to see that all is not as it seems at that church. There are many details to my story and I am not sure how or when I will share some of the details of what exactly took place that caused both of us to leave. But for now, I’ll just leave you with some facts.

    Many of you may know that my husband and I both posted on the old Topix thread, trying to defend Bob and to condemn Alex and the others for their actions for what I believed to be all lies. I believed Bob and Gayle very easily. They were very convincing and I had no reason to think my Pastor was lying to me. They took us in as “family” (so they said), and treated us very well. We struck up a friendship with another couple through this and felt comfortable where we were. So, we felt that our poor Pastor, his wife, and remaining son, daughter-in-law, and granddaughter were in the cross hairs of something really horrible and that Alex (as we were told) was a bad person who was out to ruin poor “Pastor Bob”. I felt compelled to say something to defend them, and I did. Even my quiet husband wrote a few posts accusing Alex of hurting his family, etc. We were aware that people had left the church, but did not know any of them. We were only familiar with this church because they had supported us during our time in Ukraine. So, we really had no idea what had happened or why. We just trusted Bob and thought he was telling the truth.

    As time went on, we started seeing things that we would question, but didn’t want to believe. I guess you could say that we were happy and didn’t want to rock the boat. We had only returned from our time as missionaries to Ukraine earlier that same year and getting back into the swing of life here (including finding employment) was pretty difficult. We just wanted things to stay on an even balance, I suppose you could say.
    My prayer is that those who are there will look to the Lord and will see what is really going on over there at CCV. In the beginning, I wanted so badly to defend myself because I felt so hurt and offended when I wondered what people thought or whether they believed what they were told about us because we did nothing at all wrong. (I am always in wonder of how Jesus was never offended. So hard to learn that lesson!) But I finally came to a place where God showed me that it didn’t matter what others believed about myself or my husband and why we were suddenly gone off of staff and gone from the church. The lead

    My husband was seeking other employment for quite a while as we were not able to make ends meet with his small salary. They were aware of our needs (we had quite a bit of debt from our time as missionaries in Ukraine) and reassured us that they wanted to do more but were unable. We were understanding of that and kept our minds on serving the Lord and not worrying about finances. After all, we were happy there and felt we were where the Lord wanted us, and that is what mattered to us. But, what held us back was having insurance through Greg’s full-time employment, since they reimbursed all of your medical expenses as a full-time employee. When I was hired, Kevin Mizner and Bob Grenier were both aware that I had health problems that needed attention and they were happy to provide the insurance. As time went on and our reimbursements grew due to our medical issues such as neck surgery, discovering I had an auto-immune disease, and towards the end, realizing my oldest son has permanent atrial fibrillation that was/is quite symptomatic that required a cardio-conversion surgery and a referral to a specialist in San Francisco in order to perform a much needed ablation ASAP (the insurance has a deductible of $6,000, which we still carry today through COBRA, as we had no other options up until a week ago!), the administrator who took Kevin Mizner’s position was quite troubled at how high medical reimbursements had become. Shortly after this, my husband was suddenly offered a job (the details of this job were mainly relayed to us by the daughter of the employer since she said she knew all of the details better. I had my suspicions, but my husband told me not to think such things. Since this new employer did not offer insurance (would only give an extra $300 a month toward your own plan) we were reassured by the daughter that our finding insurance would be “no problem at all all” and that she would even help me! She gave us a figure of how much money Greg would be making and so we decided to pray about it. Well, Greg was worried about leaving the church as their Facility Manager since his position covered SO many responsibilities with no one to take over. His first concern was for the welfare of the church and his job responsibilities. He decided he would take the job, but phase out of his position of CCV very slowly to allow enough time to find a suitable replacement who could be trained and for us to find insurance. Well, it was when I saw Greg Dowd’s (the current administrator) reaction to Greg’s news of his departure that I knew, deep inside, they wanted him off of staff because our family cost too much in insurance. It all felt just so… well, planned.

    I worked there part time as their bookkeeper. I can say that I crossed every t and dotted every i. They would be hard pressed to find a mistake on my part. I was very organized, detailed, and thorough. My conviction was always that my job was confidential and that God’s money was something very sacred and to be handled with the utmost care. I deposited every stray penny I would find under my desk. :) I loved my job and enjoyed learning how to be a bookkeeper, something I never thought I’d find myself doing. But the Lord is the one who enabled me to learn and I am grateful for the learning experience. I took my job very seriously and I know that there wasn’t a person in that office who thought I wasn’t doing my job correctly. I am a people pleaser by nature and I always aimed to please those above me and did so happily.
    So, giving my notice to them came as quite a shock.

    Being depressed about it got me no where and left me feeling spiritually drained. It’s hard when you lose every friend you had all because you choose not to attend church with them. I was/am very hurt about some of the friends that left us and either lied about their reasons or just left in silence. I tell myself they don’t see yet… just as we didn’t. One day they will. I pray for them all and hope that they know my heart never harbored ill will toward anyone. I know I have reacted out of my hurt a few times and didn’t handle myself well. I am not perfect.

    But, It’s like starting over. Now, I am seeing the wisdom that God is bringing to us and I see the blessings all around us. So, no more whining from me! I am looking for solutions. Just wanted to bring myself out of “hiding” and show my support for Alex and his family, as well as the many that post/read here and can relate or understand the persecution and hurt imposed by such a corrupt leadership and pastor. Actually, I blame Bob because he controls them all and will allow no one to question him. It’s scary to see that people actually feared him. Not normal and not biblical. Certainly not what I had seen modeled EVER before! People don’t see it until they are on the inside…. that’s the scary part. Bob is a very good actor. :(

    The leadership never announced our leaving staff to the church, and never had the typical “going away party” that I had been to for every other staff member. Wouldn’t have mattered much because by the time I was at the end of my two week’s notice, I could hardly stand to step foot in there anymore, even though my hubby had a few weeks to go I sure am proud of how he handled and still handles this. He is a good man. He worked hard for that place but does not regret it because he made those grounds beautiful for the Lord and he loved every minute of it. He always did what he was told and worked more hours than anyone on staff did (I had heard rumors that he was lazy, that really upset me).

    I miss Terri Buford, the office manager. She is a good lady and was so good to me. She is one that knows some of the details of their schemes that led to our leaving. Even she was in shock when I told her (she asked me why I was crying in my office one day and I just broke down and told her…. she was shocked, as was I). I feel sorry for her husband. He was so over worked and stressed out. Yet he never complained and did everything they told him to do. I admired that. Now, I am just left with lots of questions…. but the answers are only all too obvious now as to why some of these people stay.

    You know, it all just takes me back to the book of James. And it’s always a good lesson to me to never turn someone away that you have the means to help. I guess I judged the meaning of “we love you as family” wrong. That can be taken both in the spiritual and familial sense. But spiritually, that is what led me to see the truth about Bob and his leadership. I ignored so many things for so long. We both did. We both allowed ourselves to get sucked into a friendship that was not pleasing to God because the friendship was not a healthy one in the spiritual sense. We are to blame for allowing ourselves to get close to people who brought us down spiritually all because we thought we could minister and love people who we thought were so wounded…. We were naive and chose to love and believe. We know our faults before the Lord and because of this, we are grateful beyond measure that the Lord allowed us to leave because in doing so it has served to renew us and restore us spiritually.

    Don’t forget Jesus’ words in the bible… he said… “Don’t ALLOW yourselves to be deceived.” We allowed it, but so did the Lord. He has and will use it for His glory. Please pray that the Lord will soften my heart so that I can forgive and love completely.

  152. I was going to post on another thread, but figured I was being long-winded and didn’t want to clog up that thread. Instead, I will continue where I left off in my first post where I replied to Michael Newnham’s podcast. I want to share about our experiences with CCV but I want to do so in a way that brings some closure to my own heart, helps others to see why we left, and to help them to see that all is not as it seems at that church. There are many details to my story and I am not sure how or when I will share some of the details of what exactly took place that caused both of us to leave. But for now, I’ll just leave you with some facts.

    My prayer is that those who are there will look to the Lord and will see what is really going on over there at CCV. In the beginning, I wanted so badly to defend myself because I felt so hurt and offended when I wondered what people thought or whether they believed what they were told about us because we did nothing at all wrong. (I am always in wonder of how Jesus was never offended. So hard to learn that lesson!) But I finally came to a place where God showed me that it didn’t matter what others believed about myself or my husband and why we were suddenly gone off of staff and gone from the church.

    Many of you may know that my husband and I both posted on the old Topix thread, trying to defend Bob and to condemn Alex and the others for their actions for what I believed to be all lies. I believed Bob and Gayle very easily. They were very convincing and I had no reason to think my Pastor was lying to me. They took us in as “family” (so they said), and treated us very well. We struck up a friendship with another couple through this and felt comfortable where we were. So, we felt that our poor Pastor, his wife, and remaining son, daughter-in-law, and granddaughter were in the cross hairs of something really horrible and that Alex (as we were told) was a bad person who was out to ruin poor “Pastor Bob”. I felt compelled to say something to defend them, and I did. Even my quiet husband wrote a few posts accusing Alex of hurting his family, etc. We were aware that people had left the church, but did not know any of them. We were only familiar with this church because they had supported us during our time in Ukraine. So, we really had no idea what had happened or why. We just trusted Bob and thought he was telling the truth.

    As time went on, we started seeing things that we would question, but didn’t want to believe. I guess you could say that we were happy and didn’t want to rock the boat. We had only returned from our time as missionaries to Ukraine earlier that same year and getting back into the swing of life here (including finding employment) was pretty difficult. We just wanted things to stay on an even balance, I suppose you could say.

    My husband was seeking other employment for quite a while as we were not able to make ends meet with his small salary. They were aware of our needs (we had quite a bit of debt from our time as missionaries in Ukraine) and reassured us that they wanted to do more but were unable. We were understanding of that and kept our minds on serving the Lord and not worrying about finances. After all, we were happy there and felt we were where the Lord wanted us, and that is what mattered to us. But, what held us back was having insurance through Greg’s full-time employment, since they reimbursed all of your medical expenses as a full-time employee. When I was hired, the previous administrator and Bob Grenier were both aware that I had health problems that needed attention and they were happy to provide the insurance. As time went on and our reimbursements grew due to our medical issues such as my neck surgery, discovering I had an auto-immune disease, and towards the end, realizing my oldest son has permanent atrial fibrillation that was/is quite symptomatic that required a cardio-conversion surgery and a referral to a specialist in San Francisco in order to perform a much needed ablation ASAP (the insurance has a deductible of $6,000, which we still carry today through COBRA, as we had no other options up until a week ago!), the administrator who took Kevin Mizner’s position was quite troubled at how high medical reimbursements had become. Shortly after this, my husband was suddenly offered a job (the details of this job were mainly relayed to us by the daughter of the employer since she said she knew all of the details better). I had my suspicions, but my husband told me not to think such things. Since this new employer did not offer insurance (would only give an extra $300 a month toward your own plan) we were reassured by the daughter that our finding insurance would be “no problem at all all” and that she would even help me! She gave us a figure of how much money Greg would be making and so we decided to pray about it. Well, Greg was worried about leaving the church as their Facility Manager since his position covered SO many responsibilities with no one to take over. His first concern was for the welfare of the church and his job responsibilities. He decided he would take the job, but phase out of his position of CCV very slowly to allow enough time to find a suitable replacement who could be trained and for us to find insurance. Well, it was when I saw Greg Dowd’s (the current administrator) reaction to Greg’s news of his eventual departure that I knew, deep inside, they wanted him off of staff because our family cost too much in insurance. It all felt just so… well, planned.

    I worked there part time as their bookkeeper. I can say that I crossed every t and dotted every i. They would be hard pressed to find a mistake on my part. I was very organized, detailed, and thorough. My conviction was always that my job was confidential and that God’s money was something very sacred and to be handled with the utmost care. I deposited every stray penny I would find under my desk.  I loved my job and enjoyed learning how to be a bookkeeper, something I never thought I’d find myself doing. But the Lord is the one who enabled me to learn and I am grateful for the learning experience. I took my job very seriously and I know that there wasn’t a person in that office who thought I wasn’t doing my job correctly. I am a people pleaser by nature and I always aimed to please those above me and did so happily.
So, giving my notice to them came as quite a shock.

    Well, to get to the point, I found out that no one would insure myself or my son due to our health issues. That was pretty frustrating. I was told by an insurance agent that our best bet is a job with group insurance, like we had. Greg and I discussed it and decided that it would be best if we just stayed on at the church. Figured that would be no problem since they really did need Greg and there was no replacement. We were sure that they would understand and it would be no big deal. Well… That is where we were wrong. My husband was told by Greg Dowds (they all knew my son needed heart surgery and that I was in the middle of getting started with important treatments with my new Doctor, a Rheumatologist at UCLA) that Bob still wanted him to take the other job because they were just gonna save money by using volunteers. Wait…. Really?!?! Okay, so I took a deep breathe and thought I had a solution. I emailed both Greg and Bob and asked if it were possible to keep Greg on in some capacity to finish out the year and offered to pay our share of the premiums on THEIR health plan. I also offered that I wouldn’t ask for any reimbursements either. I hit send and figured it wouldn’t be a problem since it would cost them nothing and it would allow us to pay a cheaper rate than COBRA and give us time to find other coverage and a job for Greg, and my son and I can get the medical help we were in the process of obtaining.

    I received the email back that the answer was no. I was also informed by Greg Dowds a few days later that Greg would have one more month on payroll and insurance. My heart sank as I struggled to find the reasons of how they could be so callous to the people they had in their own home and claimed to have love and respect for. I felt crushed and abandoned. During this time, our friendship with a certain couple started running into some problems that we struggled to understand. We did our best to mend fences with them, but we were beginning to see their true colors as well as the staff at church. All of it was following a disturbing pattern that we had seen with previous employees. We were beginning to see that we were on the chopping block, so to speak. Why? I don’t know. What I do know is that Bob does not think about the welfare of anyone but himself and those that he knows are loyal and close. Even then, I have seen those people disappear as well. We couldn’t face the facts – it was staring us in the face and all we could do is say, “Why, Lord?”

    A few days later, Greg Dowds had come to my office and gave me a list of things that were approved by “the board”. They were pay increases and some extra pay for someone. When he handed me that paper with the pay adjustments, all I could feel is anger and sadness. It was like taking salt and just rubbing it in a wound. I let my anger get the best of me and said something to Greg Dowds that made him uncomfortable, but I was just stating my feelings. So, he prayed for me right there that God would provide what we needed for our family to find health insurance, etc. He left my office and I shut my door so I could cry. I cried there in my office but I knew the Lord had a word for me in the Psalms. He gave ma promise that day and today I know it is true, because I see it in my life now. Psalm 34:4-10.
    I sought the LORD, and He heard me,
             And delivered me from all my fears.
     5 They looked to Him and were radiant,
             And their faces were not ashamed.
     6 This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him,
             And saved him out of all his troubles.
     7 The angel[a] of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him,
             And delivers them.
             
     8 Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good;
             Blessed is the man who trusts in Him!
     9 Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints!
             There is no want to those who fear Him.
     10 The young lions lack and suffer hunger;
             But those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing.
             
    Greg and I went home and just knew in our hearts that everything that was written about Bob is true. We knew it in our hearts because we experienced it for ourselves. There are some other things that happened that don’t need to be on the blog, but through a series of talks I had had with someone close to Bob, this person felt the need to complain about me to Bob. I had already felt convicted inside that some frustrations I aired with this person (who also had my same views at some point before that about a particular family and some behaviors being allowed by their children) needed an apology because I felt she had felt offended. I went to this person and asked for forgiveness through lots of tears since this is someone I really cared for and didn’t want to soil our friendship over something so petty. She kindly accepted my apology and said she was fine and everything was going to work out, not to worry.

    A few days later, we were summoned to a meeting with Bob where I was chastised very harshly and talked to as if his assumptions were right. When I tried to speak up to let him know what had transpired, I was quickly hushed and told not to speak. He instead spoke AT me, and told ME what had “happened” and what he supposed out of all of it. To him, what he was saying was fact and therefore, I needed to listen and just agree that he was right in his assumptions I was not allowed to share anything regarding the matter. I have never, ever been treated this way by a secular boss, let alone a Pastor. I just sat there and cried, as my husband squeezed my leg to let me know to be quiet. That was hard. I sat there and and listened to his version of how he believes the situation had occurred, what he believed the motives were, and it was like Bob was the Judge and Jury, case closed. I was told to drop it and never bring it up again. And then….. I was told my older son was free to attend church elsewhere (this matter involved him in a certain sense, but he didn’t have a desire to leave the church over a few incidents that he witnessed.) The matter we discussed was blown out of proportion and the “story” Bob had was relayed to him by son. They were his son’s opinions over the matter. They became Bob’s measuring stick in which he used to judge us and the situation. It was all wrong. All I could do was cry. I couldn’t understand how something SO SMALL turned into what it did. We realized it was just one more nail they had for our coffin… We no longer had a place there and it was made VERY clear. We felt like outcasts there. Just shunned and treated like dirt. Yet, we had seen this pattern happen before with other staff. Now, it was happened to us. Just like the rest. Just like Alex said on his blog. We had knots in our stomachs as we slowly realized that all of it was true. These people had no care for us or for biblical principles whatsoever. It’s like a family run business, but it’s a church. It’s a strange and twisted dynamic.

    After Bob’s wife, his son and daughter-in-law ALL blocked me on my Facebook account (they did this when my husband told Robert we were seeking the Lord in regards to leaving the church), I added someone who friend requested me (Tina Jenkins). Apparently, someone on my friend’s list found it appropriate to report this back to them and my husband was called a liar and every other name in the book for allowing me to add this woman who he doesn’t even know. I didn’t even know her for that matter! I knew her name, as she is a former employee of that church. But my poor husband, who is very gracious, honest, and decent, was called a liar and accused of knowing all about this person and what she has supposedly done to their family. A slew of cruel and harassing text messages ensued from Bob’s sob which were extremely offensive and hurtful. As a result of my adding a friend, a big argument took place over this and the job that my husband was offered was “on hold”, as he was told, due to his anger of my husband allowing his wife to add this person to Facebook. My husband made it easier for them and just declined the job offer. We had also come to find out that the daughter who promised me health insurance would be no problem, knew insurance would be an issue for us. She suffers from an auto immune condition that does;t allow for her to individual insurance, just like me. This is probably why she started back at the church… she works there very part time and has free insurance, Although, she won’t need to worry about being replaced due to her high reimbursements. But, we believed her and had no reason to doubt. I always assume the best out of people. When it bites me, I tend to bite back. The Lord is using these things to calm me and teach me to wait on Him. He is my only hope!

    A few weeks later I was threatened on my private property by someone in the Grenier family. I wrote about it on a more current thread. The police were called to take a report, as this person was uninvited onto private property and threatened my family with harm, all using disgusting profanity and declaring how angry she was for seeing a picture I was tagged in in Facebook that had Greg and myself, along with Alex, Amy, and Geoff (Alex’s other brother) How they could see it, I have no idea. What I do know is that this person made good on her threats after finding some things written on another blog site about someone close in my family. The contents were things know by only one person. The information written was designed to hurt, threaten, malign, and dole out retribution towards us. But, how could we be surprised? It has happened so many times before to others. What makes us immune to this behavior if they have disowned their own flesh and blood? And if you go to CCV and are reading this – you need to understand that the stories you are told about people and events are not true… They are twisted or just plain fabricated. Follow the Lord and his commands, not a man. Be careful. You will be deceived. Some people who I know read this do not realize that there are people you think are your friends but they are not. I will not name names here. But be aware that I am saying this to help you, not harm you. If you want to be Godly and be like Jesus, surround yourself with those people who act like Him. Don’t be fooled any longer. You may not see it now, but one day you will. When you do, my words will ring in your head just as they did mine. I’ve learned this pattern goes back a very long time. :(

    Being depressed about it all of this got me no where and left me feeling spiritually drained. It’s hard when you lose every friend you had all because you choose not to attend church with them. I was/am very hurt about some of the friends that left us and either lied about their reasons or just left in silence. I tell myself they don’t see yet… just as we didn’t. One day they will. I pray for them all and hope that they know my heart never harbored ill will toward anyone. I know I have reacted out of my hurt a few times and didn’t handle myself well. I am not perfect.

    But, It’s like starting over. Now, I am seeing the wisdom that God is bringing to us and I see the blessings all around us. So, no more whining from me! I am looking for solutions. Just wanted to bring myself out of “hiding” and show my support for Alex and his family, as well as the many that post/read here and can relate or understand the persecution and hurt imposed by such a corrupt leadership and pastor. Actually, I blame Bob because he controls them all and will allow no one to question him. It’s scary to see that people actually feared him. Not normal and not biblical. Certainly not what I had seen modeled EVER before! People don’t see it until they are on the inside…. that’s the scary part. Bob is a very good actor. 

    The leadership never announced our leaving staff to the church, and never had the typical “going away party” that I had been to for every other staff member. Wouldn’t have mattered much because by the time I was at the end of my two week’s notice, I could hardly stand to step foot in there anymore, even though my hubby had a few weeks to go I sure am proud of how he handled and still handles this. He is a good man. He worked hard for that place but does not regret it because he made those grounds beautiful for the Lord and he loved every minute of it. He always did what he was told and worked more hours than anyone on staff did (I had heard rumors that he was lazy, that really upset me.)

    You know, it all just takes me back to the book of James. And it’s always a good lesson to me to never turn someone away that you have the means to help. I guess I judged the meaning of “we love you as family” wrong. That can be taken both in the spiritual and familial sense. But spiritually, that is what led me to see the truth about Bob and his leadership. I ignored so many things that were wrong for so long. We both did. We both allowed ourselves to get sucked into a friendship that was not pleasing to God because the friendship was not a healthy one in the spiritual sense. We are to blame for allowing ourselves to get close to people who brought us down spiritually all because we thought we could minister and love people who we thought were so wounded…. We were naive and chose to love and believe. We know our faults before the Lord and because of this, we are grateful beyond measure that the Lord allowed us to leave because in doing so it has served to renew us and restore us spiritually.

    Don’t forget Jesus’ words in the bible… he said… “Don’t ALLOW yourselves to be deceived.” We allowed it, but so did the Lord. He has and will use it for His glory. Please pray that the Lord will soften my heart so that I can forgive and love completely.I want to trust again and I don’t want anything to hinder my passion for the Lord. I have left names and many details out of this because it serves no purpose. There is much more to this, but the Lord is leading is to handle it differently. God is good and He will not give us more than we can bare!

    God Bless you all.

  153. Edna,

    In reading your post.. so much of it was like our experience.
    You have done others a service by sharing this story., especially myself who has held on to the pain too long.
    I applaud you for moving on with your life.
    As someone who only came to the faith at 40 years old, the “church” was a new and wonderful experience for me.
    I, like many others, put too much trust in it.
    I never realized how much it would attempt to destroy myself and my family.
    The one place that ought to be a place where needs are being met in love, was anything but.

    You are right to say that one’s eyes need to be open, and many are blinded..
    There are so many who Satan has planted there to destroy the true believers.
    Yet if you would say this (and I have to some after we left), they would think you were lost to even make a “judgement”…of course they have never had any personal attacks, so they are blinded.

    The Pastors and their “elite” staff gain many benefits, yet others are literal slaves.

    I am disgusted by the “church” at large, and believe that the only true peace is outside of it, where one can allow the Lord through these trials to grow in the knowledge of Him.

    Having said that, I really believe in my heart that the ONLY way to really know Jesus is to be seperated” to” Him. We are the “called” out…is it no wonder that we have to get “out” to really be sanctified? In the aloneness we are oneness. The true spiritual experience is not amidst others, but alone. The Bible hero’s are an example. Always called out, always redirected.

    You posted:
    Psalm 34:4-10.
    I sought the LORD, and He heard me,
    And delivered me from all my fears.
    5 They looked to Him and were radiant,
    And their faces were not ashamed.
    6 This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him,
    And saved him out of all his troubles.
    7 The angel[a] of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him,
    And delivers them.

    These verses you laid out really say it all to me.
    If not for our circumstances, for the Lord to allow this tribulation , we would not seek Him.
    We cannot seek Him when we have no need for Him.
    And when we truly know Him,There is a radiant light that now will shine to make our path clear.

    The good news is that God is not done with any of us.
    You as you admi,t were defending BG against Alex.
    Just like the Jews were yelling to crucify Jesus.
    They didn’t know Him
    Some really don’t know the Lord.
    They say they do but as Jesus said to Paul “Paul, why are you persecuting me?”
    And when they were convicted,( as Paul met up with Jesus) they were saved.

    Did you ever notice how when you read blogs, you will skip over some posts and tend to want to read those where the person shares your experience? You just gloss over others.

    Unless we are ready fo rthe message the message has no meaning.

  154. PS.

    I am a sort of “scrooge” who really does not “get into” the whole “Christmas experience” per se, but I want to wish everyone special times with their families this Christmas, and for us not to forget that this is supposed to be about Jesus. Who He is, what HE has done for us. He reached out from heaven to grab us out from drowning in the pool of our sins, and has rescued us to make Himself Lord over our lives. Let us each remember the sacrifice that was made, so that we could have life eternally, and be made righteous in His power.

    I pray for those family members whose eyes have been closed by the “god” of this world.., That they will discover a Jesus they never knew., May we all be lights to them.
    As we open our gifts, we have already receieved the gift that comes to us through suffering, not neatly tied up in a colorful package.

    May this New Year be one of many blessings for us all!

  155. Thank you Edna, and thank you Tina.

    These are two women who have dared to challenge Bob Grenier. That is anethema in a meglomaniac’s mind. I find it interesting that many of the blog accounts are from women. I don’t know about other CCs but at CCV, women are systematically oppressed, ironically, using the Word of God.

    These two women are the closest recent eye-witnesses of the cruel and twisted behavior of Bob Grenier. He holds the position of Senior Pastor, and Visalia Police Chaplain. That is the height of irony! Edna, as bookkeeper, and Terri Buford, office manager, are aware of the ‘schemes’ being done at CCV. Notice that Bob Grenier and his closest family members are in on it. Notice that Greg Dowds is actively involved in internal church affairs. All as we have been reporting on this blog and other places for over two years.
    Mr. Grenier’s gig is up. He is so deep in doo doo now, that there is no turning back. Many of you outside of this story can hardly fathom the depth of corruption involved at this church. It is centered around Bob Grenier, he controls every detail and every movement by any of the key players. It is sinister.

    Here is an alert once again to a few community leaders who should take notice of what is about to come tumbling down…

    Mr Mayor (Bob Link), please do an investigation into the claims against Bob Grenier, and have him removed from the Police Dept.
    Mr Sheriff (Bill Wittman)…please look into the criminal complaints that have been filed against Grenier. Compare them with what is going to be revealed fairly soon.
    Mr DA (Phil Cline)…please protect Tulare County from this vile man at CCV.
    Mr. Brent Calvin (College President)…please deal with this now!
    Mr. Jeff Fly (Turning Point Ex. Director)…please protect the mental health of the citizens of Tulare County as you are being paid to do.

    All of you can be responsible to make a personal call to either Tina Jenkins or Edna to hear for yourselves what the details of this situation are. I can assure you that this information will eventually go completely public, and it would be wonderful if all of you can testify that you made an effort to find out what was going on. Don’t forget to call Alex and Paul Grenier as well. This is a tragic story but it is in your jurisdiction to get involved. The health of our community is at stake.

  156. And mr. grenier…(from now on I will address you in lower case letters because you do not deserve to be given any capital attention.)

    Your life as a pastor is soon going to end. Your schemes are going to made fully known, and your little parade of innocence is not going to believed much longer. You are a complete fool mr. grenier. That’s the nicest thing I can say about you.

    Remember mr. grenier, the Christmas story is not as glamorous as some make it out to be. Herod, a man similar in many way to you, was determined to kill Jesus in his infancy. Many innocent babies died because of his cruelty. Yet Jesus survived. You mr. grenier have slain many innocent babes but guess what? Jesus is the true King, and he is a compassionate man, full of genuine love, and mighty to save. There is no way that you will succeed in your charade. Jesus lives for the oppressed, and will not hesitate to deal with you in an appropriate way. I hope to God that you begin to shudder at the thought of God judging your soul for what you have done in his name…

  157. mr. grenier…here is another documented fact of your obstinancy. This, and many other recent lectures of yours, point to the fact that you do not follow your own pontifications.

    http://www.ccvisalia.com/media/index.php?option=com_preachit&tmpl=component&id=115:jude&view=videopopup

    “Do not speak evil of others..it is a sin.” Shut your mouth then. Is it ok for you to speak complete untruths about Edna and her husband Greg? Is it ok for you to speak viciously about Tina Jenkins or your sons? Was it not sin for your words about your faithful elder servants? Was it not sin when you spoke unflatteringly about my entire family? Be sure of this mr. grenier, your sins will find you out, and your very words will condemn you!

  158. RE: Link WA posted

    at 19:52 mark…
    “People creep into the church,,,,Authority is place to restrain them…they won’t accept it…they speak evil of dignitaries…backbiting those in position of leadership. In church there are people who do not recognize and submit to authority.”–BG

    I do not know BG and have never met him, but I have heard that many times when others begin to see the truth and begin questioning authority at church.

  159. I think that may be 29:52 if not 19:52 Cant read my own handwriting.

  160. Hannah…bob grenier is a broken record on the teachings of submitting to authority. He is going to become a case study for manipulators and con artists. Any man who can hide behind the facade he has devised for over thirty years deserves a place in the Circus.

  161. mr. grenier and family…glad to hear that you all are keeping up on the posts here. There is a lot of dirt on you dude. You and your buddy Greg better be prepared because you are in for a ride. Wait until the world finds out about what you guys actually do behind closed doors. We are no fools, and you guys have justified your wrongdoings for far too long.

    Let’s play a who knows who game mr. greneir. You first. Is the high holy Chuck going to share his attorney?

  162. Assuming the grenier family is tracking all these posts, we just want you to know that things are progressing nicely. The scoundrels who have been conning the heck out of innocent people for so long are going to face the music eventually. This charade will not last. It’s a sad reality that bob grenier, and several enablers, have been scalping people from the beginning. This has not been a church…it has been a privately owned scheme to profit off the unsuspecting. God will not allow His name to be abused forever. Pleasant dreams mr. grenier!

  163. @# 156 Wide Awake

    Amen with your words about Jesus Christ!! He is the King of Kings! He does love His children and hates those who will profit off of His children! It is evil and the Lord will deal with accordingly.

  164. Leaving Bob to be dealt with by CCCM or CCOF is unrealistic. It just won’t happen. Bob and many others of his ilk carefully aligned themselves directly or indirectly with those in law and law enforcement. The Visalia/Tulare County Good Old Boys’ Club needs to be exposed for what it is. The DOJ needs to do some snooping along with having broader coverage, as in secular. Some things have been really rotten in Visalia for a loooong time. Alex, his family, and others who have been slammed by CCV need some long-overdue justice. The long-reaching arms of judicial oversight and broad news coverage may do the trick where the CC system has been failing and flailing all along.

  165. I wholly agree with Lone Ranger at 164. Time to turn up the heat on Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia (Everyone keep using his full name to keep this site at the top of the list when his name is searched). Alex, you mentioned in another thread that he has been asked to “provide documentation to authorities”. Can you comment? I recall there was mention of possible FBI and IRS involvement — are they finally acting? I can’t believe he still has followers.

    Since the sham of coverage that the local newspaper provided, this story has been crying out for national media — any contacts or stories in the works? And wasn’t the original Fresno Bee reporter planning a follow-up?

    For those who were abused in his employ, have you considered filing a suit about abusive work conditions? Not for the sake of litigation, but to protect/prevent future victims. Perhaps a religious discrimination case: he’s discriminating against people who believe the Bible means what it says!

    For the newcomers, please take the time to read about his atrocities and the lack of accountability indigenous to the CC Movement before writing us off as vengeful lunatics. Alex and many others have followed Matthew 18 with no result. I want Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia brought to justice bc he mocks God’s name and continues to hurt people.

  166. Yikes. I stumbled across this site to see what Bob and Gayle were up to. Looks like things really morphed out of shape for them. Shiloh days of the 70s seems like a long long time ago. Bob was always one of what’s-his-face’s pets…I believe he had been (I decided to delete part of this reference) then became a Christian- or as his story went. The only thing I had a problem with ( and this SO SO SO trivial now) was that he reprimanded me while watching Saturday Night Live back in 1978 as is was evil. Then I heard the next week he watched it and was laughing hard at it. I called him a hypocrite and he was embarrassed. Pretty mild stuff compared to what I am reading here. So this is what became of this Shiloh Royalty member.

  167. Alex, you’re completely off your rocker if you think Grenier is affected by the volumes you’ve written abuot him. Both him and your mom are twin devils of deception. They deserve each other and she’s no victim either. This is one messed up situation and it’s time you realize he wants you to keep blogging til you’re old and grey. It’s therapy right? Right. And they know that as long as you keep blogging you’re getting therapy and they can watch to see how much progress they think you’re making or not.

  168. Fooled… (still?)

    why the hate?

  169. Fool me Once.

    I really think this blog is about warning the innocent rather than expecting an abuser to change. At least that is the way I see it.

  170. I met Grenier at Calvary Chapel and he didn’t seem very friendly to me. Of course most of the folks I met there at Calvary Chapel seemd like a bunch of fakes and flakes!

    If you’re familiar with BTK (Dennis Rader), he was the leader of his church and he seemed to fool a lot of people in Park City, KS… including the police! I’m sure most of you out there know the BTK story.

    Not just Grenier, but most religious leaders at any church do this to cover up their personal criminal lives. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out!

    Some of the BEST CHRISTIANS don’t go to church! I strongly believe that!

  171. I am so sad for all of you who have endured the churchianity of so many Communities, Families, Parents and Pastors. I am glad many of you have endured in the Faith and become complete victims. I am proud that all of you are standing up and speaking out! I was born a Roman catholic but became engulfed in the Jesus Movement and Charismania that my Mother adopted after her divorce.
    I remember those 70s days well, and have witnessed the havoc this Christian Counter-Culture and it’s Leaders and Ministries has wreaked in my Family, My Friends I grew up with and those I once admired. I left it all for Orthodox Old Catholicism and I and my Family are secure and live a simple but ancient Faith.
    It seems what was truly planted in the Mid 60′s has born the real fruit of the bad seeds. A Tree is known by it’s fruits, and so is the orchard it cross pollinates with. The entire orchard becomes a horrid forrest of deception, lies and defiant cover ups.
    It is sad my generation of “Jesus Movement” believers were groomed spiritually, mentally and emotionally for such hidious abuse of our entire being: Spirit, Mind and Body. Do I think Calvary Chapel and all the different cloned associations of churches like it were a move of God? No. Churchianity in America has had many movements….and they have all ended up stinking and gathering flies…as movements do. You see, those who seek revivals actually admit that they are in fact already dead. Only those with cardiac arrest need a electric jump start. Cyclical Religion never truly feeds the Spirit of Man, and those always hungry for more and always thirsting have neither eaten the Bread of Life nor Drunk from the Well of Living Water. And it always has a financial price..a merchandised Gospel and Fast Food Jesus. Customizable Churchianity for those who only seek an spiritual opiate to either kill their true pain or get them spiritually high….and health, wealth and social status doesn’t hurt either.
    America has not become disenchanted with Christ and the Gospel…it has in most places never met Him or Heard it or seen it Lived. God be with you all….and His Peace.

  172. Rev Ken Huffman,

    Funny, these same people preach that you are the lost one, well at least that is what was told from them years ago. Anyway thank you, for your sentiments a little curious how you came across this blog,

    I will assume you are a praying man, would appreciate that as well. Do spread the word so that more can avoid being apart of them.

  173. Leave Bob Coy alone. He’s correcting his mistakes but this explains everything and the 27 pastors covering for him. If the cruise got cancelled maybe it’s for the best bc it seemed quite pricey. It will all pan out folks, in His time.

  174. So what is the answer to all this? Bob should step down innocent or guilty. This whole ordeal is just continuing to tarnish Christianity . At least Nixon resigned when he ended up in the corner and could not lie anymore. Keep on pressing until Bob resigns for the good of the church. His lies and his addiction to power and money will not go away until he is stripped and broken. Don’t give up but be are your motives and heart is in check.

  175. So what is the answer to all this? Bob should step down innocent or guilty. This whole ordeal is just continuing to tarnish Christianity . At least Nixon resigned when he ended up in the corner and could not lie anymore. Keep on pressing until Bob resigns for the good of the church. His lies and his addiction to power and money will not go away until he is stripped and broken. Don’t give up but be are your motives and heart is in check.

  176. [...] Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia: Good, Bad or Ugly? [...]

  177. [...] Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia: Good, Bad or Ugly? [...]

  178. The Jesus movement in the 60 & 70′s was then…. and now, I’m still a “Jesus” freak. Another words Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.. Always and will forever be! I have choices to make in my walk with Him. I choose and I walk my path. If I make a bad choice… I pay the price. If I hear God’s word preached, it is my responsibility to confirm what is preached by reading His word. If I ignore a crime againt man, woman or especially a child and not report it, then shame on me and God have mercy on me. If you do the same, then shame on you and God have mercy on you. Just because we cover our eye’s or hide in a closet doesn’t mean that God can’t see us.

  179. Moses,

    Thank you. On Judgement Day all those who were able, and I think there will be fewer than what is commonly thought, to keep their sins hide will come to a devastating end.

  180. I read through this blog several years ago because of an abuse that occurred with my husband by a C.C. pastor in 2004. It was in regard to a stupid choice and sin on my husband’s part. It was not handled well at all. We left and went to another C.C. where the pastor and elders all welcomed, comforted and nurtured us; as it should be. Years later, after repentance, restoration and a growth in our walks with Jesus, things are well. We still attend the same Calvary Chapel. The pastor there is wonderful. He is a great pastor/teacher that loves his sheep! By the way, the other C.C. has gone Emergent! The best thing to have ever happened with us was to get out of there when we did; albeit a difficult experience.

    When I read this story the first thing that comes to my mind is how this man ever became a pastor in the first place. And, how is it he is still the pastor at the same church? It baffles my mind. The Scripture speaks quite clearly to the qualifications of a pastor. 1 Timothy 3 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

  181. I just ran across this site. First I don’t go to this church second I don’t know this pastor Bob. With that said you all sound like a bunch of babies. If you don’t like this guy here is a thought don’t go/work there. the way you trash each other is why I don’t go to any church. Grow up move on and get a life

  182. John Clay – Would you say the same about the sexual abuse in the Catholic church? Would you tell the victims and their families who want to discuss what happened that they should grow up and stop being babies? It sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to not go to church. Since you aren’t interested in church, why did you even bother to stop by this site?

  183. When someone says they don’t go to the church and don’t know Bob Grenier, it makes me think that they actually do.

    When someone comes on to bash the participants for “bashing” each other, he is not living up to his own standard. He’s doing what he says shouldn’t be done.

    Drive by …

  184. Re: Ruth @ 180

    If your husband was truly repentant, with the fruit to back it up (and it sounds like he was,) then it’s great that the next CC took you both in, nurtured you, and restored you.

    The CC problem I have is when some fallen pastor says he’s repentant, but it’s clear that it’s in word only and not backed up by actions; then someone like Chuck Smith restores the fallen pastor to ministry within weeks of the offense. That is what I’ve seen …

    Or when a pastor is let off the hook after being caught with his hand in the Lord’s money, calling it grace, only for the offending pastor to reoffend again. It’s a misunderstanding of grace and a misapplication of mercy.

    Happy for you that life is good for you two, now!

  185. None of the other churches i know of share in these problems. Only Calvary Chapel has ministers who act like this and can’t be controlled. It reminds me of something St. Paul mentioned in Scripture: you gladly accept people who slap you around. The only other instance of this widespread problem would be Rome.

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