May 042012
 

Grace* for pretty much every sinner in Calvary Chapel...except the homosexuals? Seems to be a double-standard. Child abusers, liars, adulterers, thieves, etc are tolerated in Calvary Chapel Leadership...but homosexuals? Not so much...

“Burn homos at the stake” is the vibe I get from many Christians in our Evangelical Bubble. And, the more Fundamentalist…the higher the pyre.

Full disclosure (and for clarification): I am not a homo, I love the ladies…probably a little too much at times…but my heterosexual lust is not taboo, heck, it’s kind of ‘wink’ ‘wink’…’nod’ ‘nod’…encouraged or enabled or graced over in my experiences in the Evangelical Church. I do, however, have a brother who is gay…so I have some insight into the situation…having watched (and journeyed) with him navigating life as a PK (Pastor’s Kid) in a very strict (and abusive) Calvary Chapel upbringing.

FULL ARTICLE LINKED HERE: http://blogs.christianpost.com/voices-in-my-head/burn-homos-at-the-stake-9732/

 Posted by at 1:04 pm

  36 Responses to “Burn homos at the stake. That’s the attitude from some in Calvary Chapel Land. Grace* for child abusers, adulterers, liars and thieves…but damn those homos!”

  1. Might be because of the virulent in your face aggressive militant agenda of the homosexual “community”. Also homosexuals generally loathe Christians REGARDLESS of how they have been treated by individual Christians, they have a real hatred of Jesus. Have you seen the annual ” Hunky Jesus” festival in SF ? Where homos dress like Jesus or undress…if you can stomach it Google it…you will pictures of said homos spread representing ” Jesus” spread eagle with their rectums in view for the camera… so don’t bother defending them just because you have an issue with the way you were personally abused by a Pastor-now you want to braoadbrush ALL Christians and Pastor’s as homosexual haters ? Please get a grip man..your credibility is slipping down the drain

  2. I think the point is the lack of consistency. Picking out sins that make us more uncomfortable, or are more in our face, but gracing over other sins because they don’t bother us as much is a real problem.

    The sin of the aggressive homosexuals who press their agenda in our public schools bothers me. But so does the sin of the oppressive, controlling, abusive Calvary Chapel pastors. The selfish ambition of some of these men is very damaging. Maybe even more damaging than the in your face homosexual political agenda. At least you know they didn’t sign up to order their lives after the Scriptures. But the pastor claims to be a spokesperson for God … yet commits such damaging sin against believers when there weren’t expecting it, that people run wounded and bleeding from the church and don’t want to go back to any church.

    Now that’ serious.

  3. Who did Jesus save his most frequent and scathing remarks for? The Pharisees.

  4. Yes, that’s one of the major points Grateful. Calvary Chapel practices and teaches “Grace, grace, grace!” for their CC Pastor scoundrels…but not so much for homosexuals. If CC is going to be a Strict Fundamentalist Church…and act like one with dudes like David Rosales and others crusading against Gay Marriage and homosexuals etc…seems they should take issues like Child Molestation, Child Abuse, Lying, Stealing, Prescription Drug Abuse, etc etc more seriously as well. But, nope. Just crusades against the homos.

  5. V said, “Might be because of the virulent in your face aggressive militant agenda of the homosexual “community”. Also homosexuals generally loathe Christians REGARDLESS of how they have been treated by individual Christians, they have a real hatred of Jesus. Have you seen the annual ” Hunky Jesus” festival in SF ? Where homos dress like Jesus or undress…if you can stomach it Google it…you will pictures of said homos spread representing ” Jesus” spread eagle with their rectums in view for the camera… so don’t bother defending them just because you have an issue with the way you were personally abused by a Pastor-now you want to braoadbrush ALL Christians and Pastor’s as homosexual haters ? Please get a grip man..your credibility is slipping down the drain”

    1. 1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

    2. Homosexuality is clearly sin, along with a bunch of others sins God “hates”.

    3. Homosexuals who reject Christ are lost, as are heterosexuals who reject Christ and do aberrant things like heterosexual pornographic things.

    4. I think there is a double-standard that I’ve personally witnessed in Fundamentalist Evangelicalism broadly…and more specifically in Calvary Chapel.

    5. Credibility is in the eye of the beholder. Chuck Smith has “credibility” and he’s lying about a lot of stuff. If you don’t like my opinion on this matter, no problem. I suggest you don’t read my stuff. Unlike “pastors” in CC, I could care less about growing a following. I have my take on stuff, I could be wrong, could be right, but it’s my take at that particular time, until convinced otherwise.

  6. Grateful said, “The sin of the aggressive homosexuals who press their agenda in our public schools bothers me.” Yes, bothers me too. I have no problem with raising the issue of bullying someone b/c they’re gay…that’s wrong. I have no problem with homosexuals expecting to be treated the same as others in our System. I do have a problem with any Agenda that imposes itself, especially in a Public Institution, on others.

  7. Well, its true but Calvary isn’t the worst and Lonnie was able to get away with it for years in both Calvary and Vindyard before he was booted. The churches that hate Calvary sometimes are worst actually on the homosexual issue-ultra fundemedlists.. Chuck and company are from the old school more critical against gays because of the bible but St Paul was harder on gays and regular sex fornication and he lived in a time were homosexaul sex was considered ok in the Greek and Roman world. In fact, homosexauls outside of the church have gain a lot in 1965 they could still be jailed for sodomy and Oscar Wilde in the late 19th century was jailed in England. Kids in high school are stupid and gay kids in paricular have it hard since they out of the mainstream which is important in the high school years.

  8. ‘Gay’ sounds so Happy don’t you think? How about ‘Randy’? Sounds like the world has suceeded in changing the portrayal of a Sin that God repeatedly condemns.
    I agree, people need to be loved, affirmed and accepted into the Body of Christ regardless of the type or flavor of their sin, but repentance toward God and faith towards Jesus Christ (acts 20:21) must always be the asking price for grace and forgiveness. They need to put away what God calls sin and ‘put on’ the New Man in Christ and follow Jesus.
    Just because there seems to be double standard and hypocrisy on other sins in the Church doesn’t mean we compromise our stand on homosexuality.

  9. M in C said, “Just because there seems to be double standard and hypocrisy on other sins in the Church doesn’t mean we compromise our stand on homosexuality.”

    Agreed, to a degree.

    Homosexuality is sin, can’t compromise on that..acting on it that is, not the inclination or tendency, but acting on it…just as heterosexual tendency to “desire” to fornicate is not sin…it is acting on it in the form of lust and/or the physical act.

    We call acting on homosexuality what it is: sin. We call it sin just like all the other sins listed in Scripture.

    We shouldn’t make it a special sin, unless we address other sins that God “hates” in a similar manner. I’d like to see a guy like David Rosales write a Letter to the Editor about his pastor friends who are liars, child abusers, thieves etc etc. Nope, that’d never happen, he’s too busy judging sinners “outside” the church for being sinners, rather than judging “inside” the church as the Apostle Paul commands.

  10. Cynthia, Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel do their best to distance themselves from Lonnie Frisbee the homosexual…even though the Movement was really started by Lonnie and co-opted by Chuck Smith.

    Yet, Chuck Smith has no problem embracing an adulterer (heterosexual) like David Hocking…probably b/c Chuck Smith, Don Stewart and many other CC Pastors are heter adulterers.

    Grace* for the hetero adulterers in Calvary Chapel…not so much for the homos and Lonnie Frisbee.

  11. How is homosexuality ‘in our face’? When I check my email daily, I have straight porn thrown in my face. When I turn on the television, all I have to do is watch a Carl’s JR (Hardees for you East Coasters :) television commercial to get ‘straight’ porn like substance.

    Sodomy is not a homosexual issue. Give me one example of a despicable “gay” act and affront to humanity, and I will find you the straight equivalent.

    The truth is…if anyone really wants it (that darn truth word again)…straight porn/sex is 1,000 times more in our face than homosexuality. It’s a societal taboo, and nothing more. Sin is sin, no matter how one likes to categorize it.

    What should REALLY trouble us…is that divorce rates in the church are on par with the world and heterosexual sin is nearly applauded nowadays.

    Is homosexuality sin? yup. Is it more detrimental to family than heterosexual sin & divorce? Nope. Numbers don’t lie.

    Don’t even get me started on Prop 8 garbage. Once the church figures out how to ‘stay married’ is when they have a right to define what family is imo.

  12. Steve B said, “What should REALLY trouble us…is that divorce rates in the church are on par with the world and heterosexual sin is nearly applauded nowadays.

    Is homosexuality sin? yup. Is it more detrimental to family than heterosexual sin & divorce? Nope. Numbers don’t lie.

    Don’t even get me started on Prop 8 garbage. Once the church figures out how to ‘stay married’ is when they have a right to define what family is imo.”

    Just a big AMEN over here. It’s pretty absurd. We’re a bunch of hypocrites in the church and making homos the taboo sin and bogeyman makes us feel better, I guess, about our own depravity.

  13. Good points, Steve B.

    Fwiw, religious literature from the 14th, 15th, and maybe 16th centuries do not make the sin of homosexuality more prominent than other sins. It appears it wasn’t considered strange that people had such desires or temptations, just noted that Scripture tells us not to act on it, in the same way a heterosexual is not to fornicate or commit adultery.

    All one has to do is think about a time when they felt intense anger … did they act upon murderous thoughts? Experiencing intense desires of one sort or another is not the sin, it’s acting on it in thought or deed with the later causing more intense consequences in the here and now.

    My CC pastor preached against homosexuality (because the text brought it up) while he was absconding with the church coiffures, having an “emotional” affair (so he claims,) being abusive to his wife, regularly spiritually abusive to congregants, etc…

    I think Alex’s point is key: 1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

  14. The common Law and the Justinian Law codes charged Homosexauls with sodomy that what I’m talking about. Homosexuals today are rarely jailed or in the old days they could be put to death. I think that homosexuals are treated a lot more humanely today. There’s a double standard but a recent issue of christianity today talks about the monsters among us and in today’s society with the exception of some churches, child sexabusers are treated worst than gays. Mainly since abusers are foring themselves among children. Child abusers have been murdered in prison and after being released from prison its hard for them to find a place to stay before the community runs them off. Granted, certain abusers get away with it.

  15. Cynthia, good info…and yes, abusers get away with it and there’s a lot of it in Calvary Chapel….more than people know b/c they hide it.

  16. Something else to worry about besides homosexuals “ruining family & church”:

    http://www.holylandexperience.com

    THIS is what should worry you.

    Its nice to see the Trinity Broadcasting Network is finding good uses for God’s money…after all, who wants to feed the starving and clothe the naked when you can send your children to Messiah mountain to ride the Jesus coaster?

    Lets think of some other creative names “Red Sea rapids”, “Pilot’s plummet”, “Judas suicide swings”?

  17. Steve B, YIKES!

    It’s Disney Land for false prophets, money changers and hypocrites! Woohoo! Jesus, Inc. is good business.

  18. It has been awhile since I have responded. I am not addressing the blog statement. I prefer to address the misuse of 1 Cor. 5:12. Please keep it in context. The issue of not judging non-believers was addressed due to the result of becoming pharisaic. The Christian would have been reduced to avoiding what could be defined as unclean. Paul was saying that we weren’t to fellowship with those who claimed to be Christians but were acting like the world. This gave the believing brethren the freedom to live in the world without having to pass the same manner of judgment on unbelievers and therefore, not associate with them.
    Jesus states it in this way; 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
    John 17:14-19 (KJV)
    However, it was not intended to mean that we shouldn’t judge the actions of those in the world.
    Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
    1 Cor 6:2-3 (KJV)
    You’ll notice that this verse comes shortly after the misquoted verse of 1 Cor. 5:12.
    Furthermore, you’ll notice that Paul recognizes the prior inappropriate behavior of the Corinthians;
    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
    1 Cor 6:9-11 (KJV)
    This is still in context and Paul is judging the mal-behaviors of the world. He is just not separating himself from the world as he would a professing believer who is living after the world. 1 Corinthians is written prior to Romans. It stands to reason that Paul could be recognized as a hypocrite with respect to his statements of Romans 1.
    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    Romans 1:25-32 (KJV)
    In this passage he is calling them out and stating that their end (all sinners who die apart from the grace of God) is death. In reality we have to judge the non-believer to determine whether we will share Christ with them.
    The reason I write? Calvary Chapel is rapidly becoming a theological disaster. Furthermore, they lack the wisdom to exercise scripture and to address sin in the camp. Misquotation of scripture should not be taken lightly.
    God Bless

  19. Re: Raymond @18

    You are right. I should have been more careful. Thanks for the correction!

  20. Re: I heart Sheck,

    Does this mean there will be pressure applied to the police dept. where Bob Grenier is chaplain to do something about the sexual molestation accusations made against him by his own blood son?

  21. Speaking of police abuse: Anyone want to chime in on the Kelly Thomas murder in Fullerton by thug police who were caught on film torturing him to death???

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/orange-352641-county-rackauckas.html

  22. Looks like with all the pedos coming out of the woodwork, Uncle Sam needs to do some fast thinking to keep all its ‘buddies’ safe:

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11602955-viewing-child-porn-on-the-web-legal-in-new-york-state-appeals-court-finds?lite

  23. #22 Once – That was horrible what happened. Where is the Rev Al sharpton, or Jessie Jackson, etc. on this one? I guess whites don’t matter – which seems pretty racist.

    As far as homosexuals and Christians, I don’t blame the ones who are disgusted with Christians and therefore are said to “hate” Christians. Christians imo have grossly misrepresented God’s love to homosexuals.

  24. Just ran across this article in VTD about a police chaplain being recently charged:
    http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012205100309

    Don’t know anything about this man/can’t comment on his guilt or innocence, but thought I’d post it as public record since so many of the posts here involve extracurricular activities of people in “high places.”

  25. I love the push-back that our long-time posters are giving to the simplistic sycophants here and on other threads. That is why this blog needs to continue. People come on and criticize without educating themselves on the big picture that has divinely emerged over the last two years. Perhaps a new thread giving a succinct summary of CC’s atrocities along with a list of Scriptures supporting our Biblical stance on corruption would help the newcomers better grasp why we do what we do. Thank you Alex for maintaining your presence here while you ratchet up the heat through your other blog as well.
    Regarding the arrested Exeter police chaplain (two towns over from Visalia), I find the contrast between the handling of his and Bob’s cases alarming. Exeter policemen expressed shock and disappointment, whereas VPD bungled Alex’s police report and VTD rose to Bob’s defense. Do I recall correctly that the police report completely left out Paul’s allegation of sexual abuse? If Bob’s evils are “beyond the statute of limitations”, how were so many grown-up altar boys’ testimonies used to oust the pedophile priests? Also, the Exeter guy was removed upon accusation, not conviction. Yet Bob gets a glowing VTD piece on “Business As Usual” after his “trial” (a trial from Satan, not trial in the legal sense). Common sense and best practice dictate removal of the accused while an INDEPENDENT investigation is performed. I hope I’m not the only Joe Citizen who picked up on these contrasts, and I hope they will catch the eye of higher officials, or at least the national media. Please tell me the IRS, FBI, and national media will be on the scene imminently.

  26. I heart sheck said:

    “…If Bob’s evils are “beyond the statute of limitations”, how were so many grown-up altar boys’ testimonies used to oust the pedophile priests?…”

    I think part of the answer is in the semi-submerged anti-Catholic bigotry that still swims about in some Protestant circles. It wasn’t too long ago that the bigots feared a Catholic President as much as they feared the Red-threat.

  27. In all the Church fellowships that I have attended, Four Square, Regency and Calvary, fornication and adultery was preached against more than homosexuality. The reason why there is a perception that homosexuality is railed against more than those other two sins is that when you speak against adultery and fornication you will get very little pushback from people. You may get some regarding sex outside of marriage but none against adultery. Even those in the world will amen a preaching against adultery. So when a preacher speaks against those two sins nary a peep will be made by anyone thereby not bringing any attention to the issue. However the minute you preach against homosexuality be prepared to be labeled all kinds of nasty things by those sympathetic to the homosexual cause. It’s those that protest that make the most noise so it seems that homosexuality is being singled out when in reality it was just one of a myriad of things preached against. I hear people saying the church does not have the authority to speak on such things, to that I say hog wash, if the Church can’t speak on issues of the day then who can? I am the Church and I refuse to let the false institutions of this day ruin it for me just because they have corruption and hypocrisy. I will speak God’s word without fear of man no matter how unpopular it is. I could care less that some well known Christians have gave us in the church a bad name in this regard. I will still preach the gospel and preach it with love, boldness and wisdom not worrying about what so and so at so and so’s fellowship did three years ago to ruin the Christian testimony. The Church does have authority to speak the truth, we have the keys to the kingdom. The Church is not some organization; it is a living breathing organism, called out ones. Satan wants to shut us up by holding it over our heads that some Christians have acted hateful to homosexuals, I refuse to let that stop me from speaking the truth.

  28. SolRod, I mostly agree.

    Homosexuality is clearly sin, like adultery, fornications, pride, lying, smuggling cash to south america to avoid taxes/customs, forging signatures, prostitution solicitation, child molestation, child abuse, nepotism, misusing church funds, etc etc.

    My beef with CC on this issue is the hypocrisy and in my experience the taboo they’ve made of homosexuality, while tolerating, practicing and enabling the other sins in their Camp.

    The Jesus Movement and Calvary Chapel was founded by Lonnie Frisbee, a homosexual, not Chuck Smith. Chuck co-opted Lonnie’s “success” as an evangelist and institutionalized it and capitalized on it. You don’t hear CC embracing and gracing over Lonnie’s homosexuality, but you do see Chuck Smith embracing David Hocking (adulterer) and child abusers like Bob Grenier etc etc etc etc.

  29. I hear you Alex and Iknow that you were privy to see things up close. I have seen some things about my former Calvary that were very concerning. Nothing outwardly abominable although I heard rumors about those things. The things I saw were more having to do with pride and arrogance. Also celebrityhood seems to have bitten the pastor there. Also don’t like that they closed up shop on the womens mission in Mexico but continue to build up thier man kingdom at the palace they call a building. Also they are making merchandise of God’s people with all their conferences and car shows and cinco demayo celebrations, fashion shows and haloween celebrations, be prepared to bring your wallett.

  30. Sheck, LOL. Free advice, always look for an Adam’s apple. Lump in the throat area means lump in the groin area ;-)

    Keeping with your theme:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0oXY4nDxE

  31. It comes across strange to me when people think they know what Satan is thinking.

  32. I do not believe homosexuality is a sin. I think this is an outdated concept. Jesus never mentions homosexuals in the Bible.

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