Sep 272011
 

“A lie told often enough becomes the truth.” –Vladamir Lenin

“Half a truth is often a great lie.”–Benjamin Franklin

“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.”–John F. Kennedy

“Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD, but those who act faithfully are his delight.”–GOD

Chuck Smith is the President of CCOF.

Chuck, as President, knows or should have known all about “Affiliation” and “In Fellowship” and the many times CCOF/CCCM has “Dis-Affiliated” or “Dis-Fellowshiped” Calvary Chapel Pastors.

In my meeting with him, a meeting corroborated by Dave Rolph, Chuck Smith gave the distinct impression he had “no idea” what I was talking about with regards to “Affiliation” and had no idea what CCOF did, as they were a separate Corporation.

Hard to believe those aren’t lies, when Chuck Smith is listed on official IRS Forms as the “President” of the very Entity he denies knowledge of and “Affiliation” is a construct born from that Entity.

Links to the IRS Documents here:

CCOF 990 FOR 2007

CCOF 990 FOR 2008

CCOF 990 FOR 2009

 Posted by at 8:45 am

  72 Responses to “Chuck Smith listed as President of CCOF in IRS Documents, yet denies knowledge of “Affiliation” and inner-workings of CCOF”

  1. Thank you to Doug Gilliland for doing the detective work on this one.

  2. Seems like a clear link to Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa and Chuck Smith to me, when Chuck Smith is President of CCOF.

  3. Obviously Chuck is a liar, plain and simple can someone say “wolf in sheeps clothing”.

  4. Maybe he is just a figure head there and they keep him in the dark about everything.

  5. Michael, if so, still a lie and still dodging responsibility.

    Words have meaning. IRS Documents have meaning.

    Chuck Smith is Pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa and President of CCOF.

  6. Alex,

    People don’t like their anchors pulled so that’s why there will always be Chuck Smith aplogists

  7. The article asking questions about the Ayub molestation/statutory rape on the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa Campus is back public with the addition of Chuck’s version of events (reported from our meeting).

  8. Perhaps they keep him in the dark at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa too and Calvary Chapel uses the Moses Model of leadership is just another conspiracy theory from the “refuse bin”.

    Wikipedia mentions the Moses Model at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary_Chapel
    This Wikipedia page is obviously the work of an satanic coven that have targeted Calvary Chapel.

    In fact “Calvary Chapel Distinctives” was obviously ghost written by Merrie Destetano and never even read by Chuck Smith. If it was the book was obviously secretly altered before being published.

    In addition a fringe break off sect of Anonymous has apparently hacked many Calvary Chapel sites, such as http://www.calvarychapelsthelens.org/Download.html where Calvary Chapel Distinctives can be downloaded and the Moses Model is laid out in detail. Will the evil plot against Calvary Chapel never stop!

  9. Michael,

    They say one is born every minute, please don’t be that one.

  10. Michael, If that’s sarcasm, it’s hilarious!

  11. MB, hilarious! :lol:

    Yes, a Grand Conspiracy to “destroy the Work of Lord!”

    These guys should just fess up and take responsibility for their lying and covering up and not acting in a righteous manner in dealing with issues like Bob Grenier, etc.

  12. Way to go, Doug!

  13. Alex, do you have any access to the lawyers who are trying to make the case for “agency”?

    They should hire Doug!

  14. The lawyers monitor this site.

    They contacted me through this site.

  15. Good to know.

  16. This is the smoking gun and the cat in the bag that they feared would one day be leaked…

    Alex I believe you just hit the motherload!

  17. Michael,

    If that was sarcasm, then i guees it went over my head. If it was, then it is funny

  18. Here’s the “String”:

    Chuck Smith/CCCM—>Chuck Smith/CCOF—->Calvary Chapel Pastor (Position of Trust) with permission to use name and likeness licensed/owned by CCCM, implied trust, implied accountability to Chuck Smith/CCCM, implied oversight, sells Chuck’s books, dvd’s, promotes Chuck’s Radio Station K-Wave, promotes Chuck’s Website CCCM, promotes Chuck’s Prophecy Conferences, Men’s Conferences, Pastor’s Conferences, etc. Spreads the name and CC Brand.

  19. What was it you used to say?

    I am NOT a duck!

    Waddle…. waddle … quack … quack …

  20. Well, Chuck was obviously lying then, and shame on him. People should know about this snake. There’s no excuse for this sort of crap, frankly.

    From a legal standpoint though, couldn’t Chuck conceivably be the head of two agencies without this entailing a mingling of the two in terms of ‘agency’? So Chuck and CCOF would be implicated in some of the scandals, but this wouldn’t touch CCCM as an organization? Just curious. In any case, it doesn’t seem that Chuck could protect himself personally. He’s quite obviously the head of EVERYTHING in CC.

    Seriously, all the crap about him being such a nice, kind, grandfatherly guy. It’s BS. He’s nice and kind to the extent that everyone falls in line with his absolute authority. He’s a snake.

  21. This is getting more and more to the level of a legitimate media story. I hope it can get some coverage.

  22. Grateful, LOL! Yep.

    “I….AM….NOT….A DUCK!”

    Quack, quack, waddle, waddle, fly :smile:

  23. Gandy, it’s gonna get some coverage.

  24. I wonder if it ever occurred to the CC Elites that God is more powerful than all of us? I hear the phrase “work of the Lord” a lot out of these folks as well as many mainstream Christian groups. What if the “work of the Lord” was to expose the corruption in CCCM and all of it’s “non-affiliates?” Could it be that God is using Alex to do His work? God has used Bob Grenier to do His work. As much as that is sick, God prevails and He will make sure His name is praised.

    Maybe the “work of the Lord” IS Alex blowing the cover on the filth that many in CC seem to be comfortable with. Seems that many are comfortable with Bob Grenier. “They can’t do anything”… more like refuse to get their hands dirty. Sometimes I wonder if that work is forced vs. God really behind it. CCCM/CCOF pulls in some serious cash! People are pretty comfy with their roles. Could it be Jesus walking into the temple and turning some tables? Makes one wonder.

  25. All of you guys are forgetting one thing, Bob Grenier has not been convicted of anything. Just because you say all of the things about him does not make it true. These are just allegations, nothing more at this point.

    This can get all the media coverage in the world, but thinking people are going to say let me see the facts, not allegations.

  26. Fact: Proved it to Chuck Smith. He says he believes us.

  27. Fact: Chuck saw the testimony and Bob’s admission to his Board that he hit Geoff in the face.

  28. George, go “trust the Lord and keep your mouth shut”…isn’t that what you stated yesterday?

  29. Alex, Thanks for making the documents public. I think its actually gracious to Chuck to get out everything in the public before its exposed in court. This at least gives him a chance to come clean and prevent himself from purjuring himself under oath.

  30. I don’t think George has been around here very long, otherwise he’d know about all the evidence you have. *shrug*

  31. I did a quick search and I found CC Redmond states that they are an affiliate of CCCM:Should double check that but not much time right now..they do use the word “affiliate” in the “who we are” part of the website(If my memory serves me correctly).. What exactly does that mean?

    Would Mr. Grenier submit to a lie detector test?

  32. And how do you prove this, George. I’m sick of people saying this. Don’t be stupid. If three sons saying these things isn’t enough, what is?

    If all these people coming out of CCV have the same stories you better listen.

  33. Fact! If you buy 14 completos……….it’s only $14.

  34. * Show copies of IRS documents stating Chuck Smith is the President of the CCOF
    * Make a simple listing of every CC website that states it’s an affiliate
    * Make a simple listing of every CC pastor who states Chuck Smith is my pastor
    * Take a simple poll of every CC pastor to see if they think their affiliation is with Chuck Smith/CCCM/CCOF
    * Convince a few churches to deviate from the CC way and tempt Chuck to remove their dove ;)
    * Etc …

    101 Ways to meditate on affiliation …

  35. “Would Mr. Grenier submit to a lie detector test?”
    Hannah, he wont even submit to a sit down with us. He cant control himself in situation were he is not in control, if that makes any since, he just clams up.

  36. Grateful, good stuff.

    ATTENTION ALL CC PASTORS WHO ARE LEANING REFORMED!

    This is a great time to go full blown Calvinist!

    There will probably be no Dove-Yanking, since Chuck gives a pass to Child Abusers and Molesters.

  37. Any word out of Camp Chuck as to why he missed the deadline and left you with deafening S-I-L-E-N-C-E ……?

    Maybe I should compile a list of good business practices that all include how to contact people within the agreed amount of time? He already knows the scriptural mandates to treat people properly and that’s not working.

  38. Or for those not inclined towards Calvinism, they can just inform their congregations about the Pre-Wrath Rapture position. That’ll really get things exciting!

  39. It was once explained to me the difference between a Vineyard and a Calvary Chapel:

    Calvary Chapels kept the Holy Spirit in the prayer room, while Vineyards let Him out into the sanctuary.

    So those leaning more Charismatic could let the Holy Spirit out into the sanctuary now and still keep their dove, too.

  40. If its truly a free for all in the CC camp now, why don’t a few CC senior pastors denounce the Moses Model. Or is it an oxymoron to have congregational or elder rule and still be a CC church?

  41. Andrew, people keep telling me there are some CC’s that have elder rule, but whenever I ask for names, they won’t say.

    I’ve given out my email address publicly on here and asked for CC’s that have made some changes and listed several to choose from. No one has ever given me the name of one.

    Surely there must be some. PP says some of their guys have and that they have a copy of new by-laws with accountability built in, but they wouldn’t give me a name of a single one, either.

  42. George, you are correct that Bob Grenier is not convicted of any of the allegations. If we are going by the man-law, he is innocent until proven guilty. According to the Bible, there is another method of dealing with this too. Here is the problem, since BG is a pastor over people, no one… NO ONE has brought him in and gone over the allegations. Since BG calls CS his pastor, it just appears that CS should get off his posterior and deal with it at the very least prove Alex and his brothers are lying or stretching the truth, if anything.

    The other issue is that many say they can do nothing. Let’s say you have a peer who you work with and they are stealing office supplies from work and taking them home to use for a side business they started. Let say they also take donations at work and for every $10 given they take $1 and sometimes they just take some petty cash and go to lunch. Another team member comes to you and says… hey, I witnessed all this stuff. Here is some evidence. I tried to tell our boss, but he refuses to deal with this. Will you help me so we can stop this guy. It’s hurting our business.

    You say, gosh, sorry bud. I can’ do anything. In fact, you need to calm down and not say anything because this will all work out in the end. In fact, you are now bugging me with the truth. I know I’m close to our boss, but we all should just relax and sing kumbayah. It will all eventually work out as the Lord see’s fit.

    NO! You will be the first one to report ethics violations so the company can strengthen! This is the point Alex was making with homosexuality and lying. Both condemn you to Hell. One is not greater than the other. So why is it that people say there is nothing they can do, when they demonstrate in other areas of their life that they CAN do something? Bottom line, they are lazy, do nothings that want to “not get involved” in what they “think” is a family matter.

    Sorry to inform everyone, it has NOTHING to do with Alex and his family. It has EVERYTHING to do with Bob Grenier being a pastor over people and a mound of FACTS that prove he is unfit to be in that position, according to Scripture. He continues, to this very day, hurting more people in OUR family. Why is this so hard to understand??

    The funny thing is that all because of Bob Grenier, Alex has been discovering evidence way beyond what he ever imagined about CC and many leaders within. I’m sure there are really nice people who mean well, but they are human and they are prone to sin just as much as all of us are. One would think that this would have been handled long ago, but it now seems that “God’s work” is now peeling back the layers of a movement. Truth will prevail. All this, because Bob Genier was never dealt with. Hind sight now shows the stupidity of it all. So sad!

  43. Grateful # 38, One brother form Calvary Montebello was asked to leave beacuse of his belief in the Pre Wrath Rapture. Not really just his belief but he treid to convince the Pastor that this was the correct position. He also had a mens bible study every other Saturday so the Pastoral staff at Montebello felt threatened and they warned all of us who attended his bible study that we shouldn’t go. I didn’t listen to them as I lean towards the Pre wrath Rapture myself. They told the guy that he wouldn’t teach there as long as he held to that position. He was basically asked to leave nicely and then he started his own home fellowship. Most of the brothers stopped attending the mens bible study that he held after he left Calvary.

  44. “Calvary Chapels kept the Holy Spirit in the prayer room, while Vineyards let Him out into the sanctuary.”

    Hmm…controlling the Holy Spirit in any way…not a good thing.

    Not Alone- Forgive my stupidity. :)

  45. CC Redmond:
    Sorry that I mentioned they were affiliated with CCCM.
    What exactly does the word “affiliate” mean anyway?

    “Calvary Chapel Redmond is the place for you if you’re looking for a laid-back Christian fellowship with electric worship. We are a Calvary Chapel affiliated church with an emphasis on teaching the Word of God”.

    “Electric worship”…thats a new one to me.
    At first glance I thought it said “eclectic”..must be electric guitars?
    Or electric as in “electricity”=powerful?

  46. Re: Hannah

    Both sides, Vineyard and CC, seemed to have good reasons for approaching how they had “order” in the church differently. Don’t think it was necessarily a bad issue, maybe just different approaches.

    My point is just that there are so many ways a CC church can now express themselves and then CC churches will truly be independent, and it will truly be a movement, whereby their “flavor” will have it’s effect across denominational lines.

  47. And us Reformed Presbyterians let the Holy Spirit out into the entire world! Even our mission boards, elders, and pastors had no say in this. It was predestined.

  48. Grateful-

    I should have put a smiley after my comment about the Holy Spirit :) !

  49. Grateful-

    Where did the “order” for church service come from?
    (not to go off topic)
    Did a whole study on the altar call a few yrs ago which was very surprising.

  50. Re: Solomon @ 43 (Warning: off topic)

    After studying the pre-trib in one Bible College, where we were told what to believe, I was shocked to find out there were 3 other main end time views, with a boat load more most people have never heard of. At my second Bible College, they presented the 4 main views and we had to study and make a case for what we believed. The only rule was that we could not violate any hermeneutical principles in making our case. Whew! It was just too much work! I needed years to give each view a fair shake. It taught me that this subject is not “simple”.

    We were warned not to just read what others have decided about the views, because that would just unduly influence us, instead of our trying to see what we can know from the Scriptures, themselves. So upon graduation, I got stuck in 1Corinthians 13, and didn’t make it back to end times.

    It wasn’t until 25 years later, when my teenager read through Revelations, that I was even curious about it. He just read it and said, “Of course we’re going through some kind of tribulation.” Well, if you want just a simple reading and understanding of Scripture, we could just stop right there, I suppose. Wonder why the CC simple reading of it came up with a different conclusion?

    I still don’t know and only pay attention to the book because God tells me to. But when I look, I see through a glass darkly. Seems to me that CC is so focused on Pre-trib that it misses a great opportunity to teach people how to be as clear as Scripture is clear and as unclear as Scripture is unclear. Teach people how to be good Bereans and allow them to ask questions and not be afraid to say, “I don’t know” if you don’t.

  51. Michael B, another Reformed Presbyterian yayyyy :-) Are you part of PCA or PC(USA)?

  52. Re: Michael

    I’d like to be a Reformed Presbyterian when I grow up. I tried recently, but the church split just before I got there. Not a good thing for us at the time. I figured it would do me some good to just sit in that camp for awhile and see what there is to see from that perspective.

  53. Re: Hanna @ 49

    New International Version (©1984)
    But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
    New Living Translation (©2007)
    But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.
    King James Bible
    Let all things be done decently and in order.
    Bible in Basic English
    Let all things be done in the right and ordered way.

    Barnes’ Notes on the Bible: (just one perspective.) Context found here: http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/14-40.htm

    Let all things be done decently and in order – Let all things be done in an “appropriate” and “becoming” manner; “decorously,” as becomes the worship of God. Let all be done in “order, regularly;” without confusion, discord, tumult. The word used here (κατὰ τάξιν kata taxin) is properly a military term, and denotes the order and regularity with which an army is drawn up. This is a general rule, which was to guide them. It was simple, and easily applied. There might be a thousand questions started about the modes and forms of worship, and the customs in the churches, and much difficulty might occur in many of these questions; but here was a simple and plain rule, which might be easily applied. Their good sense would tell them what became the worship of God; and their pious feelings would restrain them from excesses and disorders. This rule is still applicable, and is safe in guiding us in many things in regard to the worship of God. There are many things which cannot be subjected to “rule,” or exactly prescribed; there are many things which may and must be left to pious feeling, to good sense, and to the views of Christians themselves, about what will promote their edification and the conversion of sinners.

  54. Alex, I would be curious to know if Dave Rolph has some response to this.

  55. I.E., the fact that Chuck Smith is president of CCOF.

  56. Doug: try checking a public record…requesting from the secretary of state a copy of the annual “statement of information – non-stock corporation.” It should tell you the CFO, secretary and CEO of a non-profit :

    http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/corp/pdf/so/corp_so100.pdf

  57. Your a good man, Motel, I don’t care what anybody says about you! ;)

  58. Please Motel Del. I now live in Coronado.

  59. Here’s my guess if a lawyer got the CCCM records Motel refers to, they’d find Chuck Smith as the CEO of CCCM, too. My guess is Brian is on the CCCM board, too.

    Here’s my next guess, that a smart lawyer can connect the dots. Chuck Smith set up the CCOF for the express purpose of shielding CCCM if something happens to CCOF.

    My guess is that a really smart lawyer could really connect the dots with the case that the pockets of CCCM are the real deep ones since CCOF only has about a million or two (chump change to Smith) give or take in assets. Not sure what the CCCM assets might be, but certainly in the tens of millions.

    My final guess is that an extremely smart lawyer could make a strong case that CCCM should be linked in any financial settlement given the appearance that the separate incorporation was only done to shield the mothership from liablity.

    I suspect there are a lot of attorneys who’d take such a chance to get a big paycheck.

  60. BTW, I pulled those documents back in February of this year but didn’t imagine that Chuck would feign ignorance of what information anyone could find in a public record. I don’t know anything about Roger Wing, but I feel bad that he seems to be the front man.

    Somewhere I may have ones from previous years. This ain’t my first rodeo. They may have 2010 up by now (didn’t check).

    Might have been strategically smarter to just send them to the lawyer, but they probably would have been disclosed under discovery anyway. Still I would love to have seen this drama play out:

    Lawyer to Smith “What is your relationship to CCOF”?
    Smith to Lawyer “Not much, I don;t know anything about the details of the CCOF”.
    Lawyer to Smith “Have you seen this document”? (Hands Chuck the CCOF 990).
    Smith to Lawyer “No”.
    Lawyer to Smith “On page X, who does it list as President of the CCOF”?
    Smith “Uhmmm”
    Lawyer “Reverend Smith, it lists you as the President, do you wish to amend your previous testimony”?

    At least that’s how it works on TV, right?

    Smith knows all this already. He just didn’t know you would know it.

  61. Doug, whatever we are paying you from the “Refuse Collector” is not enough! Keep it up.

  62. Alex, sorry I didn’t give you the documents earlier. I didn’t imagine they would ever matter to anyone.

    This all reminds me of an SNL skit. In the days when Reagan was in office most people viewed him as a dottering old man. SNL did a skit where when the door was closed you saw a completely different Type A personality Reagan.

  63. Alex: In my meeting with him, a meeting corroborated by Dave Rolph, Chuck Smith gave the distinct impression he had “no idea” what I was talking about with regards to “Affiliation” and had no idea what CCOF did, as they were a separate Corporation.

    Alex, as I follow this story, I can say it has definitely taken a turn for the bizzare.

    The kind of information you’ve presented is not difficult to find. It’s pretty much routine gumshoe work to dig up public records. There are plenty of search engines on the Internet that provide access to various public government databases. And if you are willing to pay a modicum of a fee, you can obtain access to a huge amount of information (e.g. criminal records, etc.) about a person or a corporation. I’ve done some of this kind of research a few years back when I was trying to track down someone’s claims that particular church still existed.

    Even if Smith were not to know how accessible this kind of information is, it is totally beyond belief that his lawyer would not. Consequently, it is very difficult for me to understand why Smith would attempt to feign not knowing about any of these matters, least of all why his lawyer didn’t do anything to correct the situation when she would very well know that things like this can be readily checked.

    I am very baffled by all this. I just cannot understand what motives there possibly could be for even trying to be deceptive. It just doesn’t make too much sense.

  64. Ignominious, the only thing I can think of is they thought I was a total idiot and wouldn’t find out.

    Or, they just don’t care and are that cavalier b/c they’ve gotten away with stuff for so long.

    Motel, you out there? Do you have an opinion re: Ignominious’s questions?

  65. My opinion was that all the way along the meeting with Alex was Smith and atty Carter’s way of feeling out the case that their legal adversaries had against them in a situation where they had no money at stake.

    Smith was floating a few trial balloons and found out just how quickly they popped.

    Best approach would be for Smith to admit he created a monster (affiliation and CCOF) that couldn’t be properly policed so he needs to show it’s not what is currently being done in CC.

    Problem is Smith wants a franchise where he bears no legal responsibility for quality control over his franchisees. He wants brand-name control without making it appear that he has any control over those who bear his brand.

    He wants to have accountability without discipline. Or at least the appearance of some sort of accountability. That’s why the approach to the affiliates keeps changing.

  66. George @25 says, “All of you guys are forgetting one thing, Bob Grenier has not been convicted of anything. Just because you say all of the things about him does not make it true. These are just allegations, nothing more at this point.”

    George, God’s law, “In the mouth of two or three witnesses let all be established.” Even Jesus submitted to this at His trial and they couldn’t find two witnesses who agree.

    Man’s law – The letter of the law, not the truth. There are attorneys on this site that can verify that. Chuck brings an attorney to a spiritual exercise. Which way do you think he leans?

  67. DG@65: “My opinion was that all the way along the meeting with Alex was Smith and atty Carter’s way of feeling out the case that their legal adversaries had against them in a situation where they had no money at stake.”

    From the sounds of it, Doug, you seem to be suggesting that going into the meeting Chuck Smith never had any real intentions of trying to do the ethical or righteous thing; that is, to determine whether an “affliated” pastor flying the franchised logo was unfit to be an overseer over souls—and if so, to determine what effective action to take to remediate the situation in a just manner (if anything, at the very least, to protect the logo and brand name from being besmirched).

    In other words, you seem to be saying that he was going in purely to determine if Alex had any possible leverage to use which could cause Smith any legal problems in a court of law. And once convinced, after talking with them, that Alex really cannot take any action via that route, then Smith saw little reason to say or do anything more once the two weeks had elapsed.

    Doug, if this were the case, it demonstrates a level of cynicism on Smith’s part that borders on Machiavellian. This takes my breath away, and I find it difficult to accept, though I must admit that it’s possible. Nonetheless, I am puzzled and disturbed that Smith tried to pass off ignorance as his position.

    As for the popping “trial balloon”, it seems obvious to me that trying to claim ignorance simply will not fly, and thus doesn’t require any preliminary testing. Any attorney worth her salt wouldn’t even bother to test out flying that lead zepplin, in any venue, because she would already know that Smith is the president of the CCOF, a fact which is readily discoverable by others. As an attorney, she is supposed to know these things. If she didn’t already know the basic facts, such as this, then ’tis a pity for Chuck because he has gotten himself a totally feckless lawyer.

  68. Gandy White: #20

    Has anyone read, “Snakes in Suits?”

    An excellent book to understand tactics used by such people.

  69. DEFINITION:

    AFFILIATION: GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION?

    World English Dictionary
    affiliate

    — vb
    1. ( tr; foll by to or with ) to receive into close connection or association (with a larger body, group, organization, etc); adopt as a member, branch, etc

    2. ( foll by with ) to associate (oneself) or be associated, esp as a subordinate or subsidiary; bring or come into close connection: he affiliated himself with the Union

    — n
    3. a. a person or organization that is affiliated with another
    b. ( as modifier ): an affiliate member

    [C18: from Medieval Latin affīliātus adopted as a son, from affīlīare, from Latin filius son]

    affili’ation

    — n

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affiliate

  70. Wohh just what I was looking for, appreciate it for posting . “Talent develops in tranquillity, character in the full current of human life.” by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

  71. This blog was… how do you say it? Relevant!! Finally I’ve found something that helped me. Thanks a lot!

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