Chuck Smith’s Creeds: The Calvary Chapel “Distinctives”

 

Each Calvary Chapel Senior Pastor must “apply” to be an Official Calvary Chapel and get approval from CCOF (Chuck Smith and CC, CCCM) to get to use Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa rights owned Calvary Chapel name and Dove logo etc.

These “Creeds” must be agreed to in the Affiliation/Fellowship Application and subsequent Agreement (a Contract between CCCM/CCOF and the Pastor/Applicant who wants to be CC).

What do these Creeds state? Well, here ya go (Click on the link below in blue):

distinktives

 Posted by at 6:11 pm

  28 Responses to “Chuck Smith’s Creeds: The Calvary Chapel “Distinctives””

  1. New page up. The Chuck Smith Creeds: Calvary Chapel Distinctives…

    (Becky, there you go :smile: )

  2. Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel: “We are NOT a denomination!”

    Definition of Christian Denomination: “A Christian denomination is an identifiable religious body under a common name, structure, and doctrine within Christianity.”

  3. I was trying to copy and paste a few paragraphs but the pdf was a locked file.
    Pages 20 and 21 are particularly disturbing.

  4. From the Church Government section, Chuck offers this little “gem” (and yes I am being sarcastic):

    “When I was a very young pastor in Tucson, Arizona (the second church that I pastored), we had an annual Fourth of July picnic at Mt. Lemon. Now Tucson on the Fourth of July, is 110 degrees in the valley, so we would go up to Mt. Lemon where the temperatures are cooler.
    The state park on Mt. Lemon had a great area for picnics. They had restrooms, running
    water, tables and playgrounds. I t was a wonderful place for the church to go and have our
    Fourth of July picnic. And it was a good time for fellowship. Before one Fourth of July one
    of our members said, “I have an acre of ground up on Mt. Lemon. And rather than mixing
    with the worldly crowd in the state park, I think that it would be great if the church would
    come up and have the picnic on my acre of ground.” We said, “Do you have any water?”
    And he said “No.” “Do you have any restrooms?” “No, just an acre of ground.” It was also
    another five miles up the road from the state park to his acre. He countered with, “But it
    would be great to have a day of fasting and prayer.” Now how can anyone, as a pastor,
    speak against fasting and prayer without appearing really unspiritual before the people?
    So a group of people in the church discussed it, and they agreed it would be wonderful to
    have a day of fasting and prayer up there on the acre of ground. It would be just us, and
    we’d have a glorious time.

    There was another group of people in the church who said, “We’re not going to take our
    kids up to a place where we don’t have water. And who is going to watch the kids, and
    what are they going to do while we’re fasting and praying? There are no restrooms. If you
    go up there we aren’t going.” Now the spiritual group said, “Well, if you go to the state
    park, we’re not going.” They were manifesting real spirituality. There was a very sharp
    division in the congregation.
    Here our whole Fourth of July picnic, that had been such a glorious delight year after year,
    was going to be scuttled because of this division. Both sides came to me and said, “Chuck, where are we going to have the fourth of July picnic?” So with wisdom from the Lord beyond my years, I said, “We will let the Board decide that.”
    We had a Board Meeting and it was unanimously decided to go to the state park. I went back to the people and said, “The
    Board has decided that we should have the picnic at the state park.” I was then able to go
    to the spiritual ones who wanted to fast and pray and say, “That’s a great idea. It would be
    wonderful to spend a day fasting and praying. Maybe we can go some other time, just us,
    and fast and pray. But as far as the picnic goes they felt it best to go to the state park.”
    Because the Board made the decision, I was free to minister to both sides. The Board
    became the buffer. And it’s great to have a buffer like that because then people don’t
    polarize against you saying, “I t was the pastor who decided, and I don’t agree with his
    decision.” The Board decided, and they became a buffer for me.”

    Apparently the ones who were concerned for the safety and welfare of their children weren’t the “spiritual” ones.

  5. Franchise is a good definition of CC. However, I hesitate to throw all CC pastor’s into this lot. Chuck Smith included – at least at the start. I think that he is a man who genuinely started out to build the kingdom of God for his savior, but got waylaid by the flesh and the world. It is so hard to continue in Christ when the fragrance of wealth alluring and seducing the soul – in affluent southern California especially. A word study on seduction shows that it is self-induced and quite voluntary. Riches or the hint of the promise of riches seduce. And the flesh too often cooperates. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” This is a dire warning that all should heed. Not that all riches preclude heaven, but that it is extremely difficult for a rich man. With every seduction comes a loss and Chuck Smith, like Solomon, has suffered loss commensurate with an increase in his earthly wealth. Loss of the kingdom of God? God knows and is more forgiving in Christ that we can measure. As his life comes to the final chapter, only Chuck and God know his heart. But, in the end, I will not be surprised to meet Chuck in heaven – as a man with a contrite heart grateful for the grace and forgiveness of his Savior.

  6. The section on church government, specifically on the “Moses” model of leadership, gives permission to wiley opportunistic men, that leads some to despotism. This really is the intellectual justification that fertilizes these type of “Leaders” thinking.

    This, in my mind, is the most damming of the distinctives. Moses was the most humble man, yet some of today’s leaders lack humility. Without humility and a true love of the sheep, many of men slide into the trap of the “One Man Show” with no accountability, fiscally, spiritually or otherwise. It has been said before, Moses, the most humble man, did not enter the promised land.

    There is a better way!

  7. Re: Frank said,

    “This, in my mind, is the most damming of the distinctives. Moses was the most humble man, yet some of today’s leaders lack humility. Without humility and a true love of the sheep, many of men slide into the trap of the “One Man Show” with no accountability, fiscally, spiritually or otherwise …”

    Agreed.

    CC pastor Brian Abeyta of Calvary Chapel Castle Rock, Colorado, operated without a legally required Board for 2 years, according to CC pastor Ed Taylor, one of the former board members and CC pastor of Aurora, Colorado.

    These are normal men with feet of clay like all of us. This is precisely why these leaders must have real accountability, a series of checks and balances, and a removal of the arrogant unbiblical Moses Model church government style that promotes an arrogance that leads to unnecessary downfalls.

    Nomatter how efficient being a despot can be, we still cannot ignore that the New Testament church is always in the context of a plurality of leaders. Maybe God doesn’t value efficiency? Maybe He has something else as a greater priority … something like, uh … love … maybe?

  8. Bob Grenier of CC Visalia, California, was quoted once speaking to his staff regarding church structure, ” We are more like a benevolent dictatorship.”

    Think of that. That was said at the time he was allegedly molesting one of his sons, and physically abusing the others. What is Grenier’s definition of ‘benevolent’? Did he have a Freudian slip and mean to say, ” We have a malevolent dictatorship”?

  9. I do believe most CCs are extremely myopic and can only see their form of Christianity through the consumerist American megachurch mentality. Every senior CC pastor I have known had to build their own chuch building. Why? Isn’t there enough vacant Kmarts to rent space from? This is sad. You don’t see this “Touch Not God’s anointed” mentality as much in other parts of the world. The church is made up of the believers in a certain region and usually the church as a body has more responsibility and say than the pastor or even the board. This is a completely foreign concept to Calvary Chapel. Calvary Chapel members have no say since they have no membership. Unfortunately what happens when a CC mega church pastor falls or gets sick, this apparent church ends up losing over half of its attending members and another pastor who was probably on the board that no one even knew about from a nearby church will probably take over. The glue seems to be the pastor which is very unhealthy. If you have a falling out with the pastor, every relationship you have in the church is destroyed. The pastor has gifts like we all do, but the pastor just shouldn’t be this important. Jesus should be upmost in importance. After that the congregation as a whole. No individual, pastor or not should be elevated above anyone else.

  10. Andrew said, “No individual, pastor or not should be elevated above anyone else”.

    Amen Andrew, the pastor is the leader of equals…

  11. Moses spoke directly to God.

    The Distinctives are not a creed. The distinctives is an argument that was created to justify placing a pastor in Moses position. My bible does not bear witness to this argument presented.

    We are all annointed, filled with the spirit, a royal priesthood, and able to discern the truth of God’s Word, exhortin, admonishing, and encouraging one another. We are all a part of the body of Christ and one is not more important than the other.

    However CCCM is set up in such a way that does mirror the distinctives. Meaning, CS and the leadership has little or no accountability, there are no church membership, and what more, no financial disclosure of involvement on the part of the body to participate or to know what’s going on. We are pew warmers and anything more than this better not rock the boat or cause “division” or question these things that pertain to the church.

    Whoops, the church is consider beneath and apart from the leadership?????

  12. Andrew is right in what he said in # 9 above:

    I do believe most CCs are extremely myopic and can only see their form of Christianity through the consumerist American megachurch mentality. Every senior CC pastor I have known had to build their own chuch building. Why? Isn’t there enough vacant Kmarts to rent space from? This is sad. You don’t see this “Touch Not God’s anointed” mentality as much in other parts of the world. The church is made up of the believers in a certain region and usually the church as a body has more responsibility and say than the pastor or even the board. This is a completely foreign concept to Calvary Chapel. Calvary Chapel members have no say since they have no membership. Unfortunately what happens when a CC mega church pastor falls or gets sick, this apparent church ends up losing over half of its attending members and another pastor who was probably on the board that no one even knew about from a nearby church will probably take over. The glue seems to be the pastor which is very unhealthy. If you have a falling out with the pastor, every relationship you have in the church is destroyed. The pastor has gifts like we all do, but the pastor just shouldn’t be this important. Jesus should be upmost in importance. After that the congregation as a whole. No individual, pastor or not should be elevated above anyone else.

  13. Throughout history, the Roman Catholic church has claimed that the true church consists only of the pope, the cardinals, the bishop and the priests. Thats the church.
    To me this sounds eerily similarly to Calvary Chapel’s idea of church membership. This is just an observation I recently made.

  14. Very interesting details you have remarked, thankyou for posting . “Death is Nature’s expert advice to get plenty of Life.” by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

  15. The “distinctives” are an easy- to -read compilation of Chuck Smith’s early experiences developing a church from scratch. It is clear that he was not interested in having input then, and he has continued in that line of thinking. He makes it clear that the Board is there primarily for the Pastor’s political convenience. He is clear that in his view, having congregational input results in conflict of preferences and he sees that as “division” in the church. His answer to that is to have one leader and one leader only, who does not accept input and is not in a position of accountability. And since in the Calvary Chapel model the Pastor selects (and therefore also unselects) the Board, there isn’t really any balance of power. That doesn’t make Calvary Chapel distinct! That’s the Catholic Church model….before Martin Luther :-)

    The Pastor’s are those “called” and do not need any scholarly background. In fact, scholarship is actually resisted in the Calvary Chapel system. Their Bible School/College does not have tests in the classes, only journals where students make entries as to your growth. That is really not a very credible “degree” program.

    So, each Pastor is theoretically reliant upon the Holy Spirit as well as following what Chuck Smith’s experience and practices have been. That explains why there hasn’t been any further actual maturation in the CC system since it was first established very long ago during an era of hippies, in my opinion.

    I don’t believe the example of the murmuring of the Israelites against Moses is a valid example of a congregational church format. The Israelites in Chuck’s example were people who had just become a nation while in captivity and servitude and were suddenly delivered, and moved out as a nation under God for the first time. They did not have a frame of reference as body of God’s people, and they did not acclaimmate quickly to their new circumstances. As God said to Samuel “They are not rejecting you, they are rejecting me ruling over them.” In contrast, today’s members of church are there voluntarily. They are there to be in one accord with the body. They choose to be there and not a result of circumstances. They are not in a basic state of rebellion.

    A second reason why there is no true comparison is because at the time of Moses after the Hebrews were delivered out of Egypt, the Holy Spirit only spoke to one person at a time. In that case, it was Moses. Only Moses had the direct Word of God at time and received it from God, and the annointing of the Holy Spirit was not on the people. Today, each one of us have the direct and full Word of God, and each one of us has the opportunity to hear from the Holy Spirit and be led by the Holy Spirit. That makes today’s congregation as a group much spiritually different.

    Chuck Smith reveals his disrespect for and disregard for the rest of the body of Christ in his expressed perceptions of the rest of the body of Christ – those who are church attendees and members. This is what I believe is the core of the problem with CC. In Chuck’s analogy, whatever the body of Christ would be saying is presumed to be
    “murmurings and grumblings.” That shows contempt for the input of the body, in one broad stroke. That is so pridefully dismissive

    There is a lack of scholarship in the Calvary Chapel Pastoral system, a lack of accountability for the Pastors, and a lack of value for the members by the Pastors.
    It has been successful over these decades in many ways maintaining the original format. Therefore, everyone at CC clings for dear life to what worked 50 years ago. They must believe they will sink if they let go of that original formula.

    No church is perfect. No Christian is perfect. But the day we start thinking that we cannot benefit from the input of our fellow body of Christ family, and consider their input a nuisance and murmuring, we need to recognize we have gone in an unwise direction.

    But for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

    Praying that the whole body of Christ be revived, restored, and rededicated, and ready with oil in our lamps.

  16. On Narcissist/Sociopathic/Psychopathic Identifiers (Wolves and False Teachers)

    A narcissist doesn’t see ‘love’ like the rest of us. He views ‘love’ for another only based on what that other person can add to his life or his image. Once the person can no longer add ‘positively’ to his image, or threatens to expose the narcissist’s real self, he simply will not only fall out of love, but has the capacity to completely erase or eliminate …that person from his life all together. …Whether that person be a child, a spouse, a best friend, or even a parent is not of importance to the narcissist. Any relative or partner that, by the very means of their existence is viewed as a threat to the image the narcissist has created can be eliminated without a second thought. To a narcissist ALL people in his life are ‘expendable’ and useful only as long as they serve to positively enhance his ego or his image.

    Taken from FB posted by party who which to remains anonymous. Nevertheless, is clinically correct in defining such character traits of such persons. Moses’ model only serves to attract such persons. What is even more dangerous, it prevents others from exposing them.

    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men (and women) do nothing.” (Edmund Burke).

  17. Correction: “which” should read “wishes”

    Christianity is not passive—it is alive, active, and ever so involved in what comes in and what goes on in the lives of its members. CC does not even have membership. Why? Because it is not a church, but rather a corporation that sells God’s Word while separating itself from that which is the church itself. It uses God’s Word and music, while promoting the idea that that those who attend are there to serve them instead. What more, it has an association that is for pastors only. Not for the body of Christ. There is not any accountability other than if you are not following after them and serving their agenda. That is not Christianty, people.

    Many will say that they are Christian in order to seduce and to groom others into believing that they can be trusted and that they are interested in the welfare of the church, individually and as a congregation. In truth though, scripture reveals the truth and we are to apply this truth in exposing corruption, abuses, and the leaven that may be present, publicly, if necessary. What do you think Jesus did when He spoke quite sternly to the Pharisees and Svribes. What do you think Paul did when he spoke to the churches. What do you think Peter did when he told us to get rid of such things. What do you think Paul did when he told us that we are no longer to be bounded to flesh, but to walk in power and in love of the Holy Spirit.

    All of these told us to: Grow us, stop being led astray, search the scriptures, get rid of the leaven, hold each other to an account, do not permit such things to be named among you, if necessary, hate the very garments they wear, in order pluck them out of the very fires which are seeking to devour them. What did the rich man say when he was thirsting for a drink of water—-tell my brothers, so they would not suffer a similar fate as himself.

    The Mose’s model is an abomination to the Lord. If this is not so, then Paul would not have taught us a different gospel, as only a Pastor would have access to God, as Moses did while being in the desert with God’s chosen people. But we being under a new covenent and being set free from having to sin, being now filled with the Holy Spirit are now a royal priesthood (men and women, alike) to serve and to submit, one to another in all things. Not to feed into or to cater to one ego or false image that only serves to take capture that which does not belong to him.

    Repent and know that He alone is God and that no man has a right to Lord over or to dominate another, nor to separate the body in such a way that approves such things. That is not love, nor is it exemplifying Christ in any way, shape, or form. Not by a long shot and certainly, not according to scripture and the gospel of salvation and the doctirnal teachings set forth by Paul and other apostles.

  18. The Word helps us here. 1 Sam 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

    One thing I have learned from this whole story and the prophet’s dealings with Saul is that the spirit of control is the spirit of witchcraft. Within the clergy who emphasize the so-called clergy/laity distinction there is an addiction to control. Power is their drug of choice. More hope seems possible for the recovery of drug addicts and alcoholics than for the recovery of those addicted to power and control.

    Other passages in Scripture come to mind. In the Gospels we read:

    Matt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

    This makes me think of people who have come into the church and their fascination with the celebrity status of the clergy is all consuming. I see their desperate desire to be like the pastor or like his wife, even to the point of dying their hair or re-doing their outward appearance so as to imitate the leadership of the church. They seem to have an overwhelming need to be identified with those at the top of the pecking order or those near the top of the spiritual hierarchy in the institutional church. They want to be popular, like the leaders are popular, and they will do anything to achieve this goal. Sadly, these people who crave to be like the clergy or recognized by them fail totally to embrace a relationship with Jesus Christ. They embrace rather a relationship with the power elite in the church. They get involved with the married couples’ political cliques but never connect with the Holy Spirit. It is the deeds of the Nicolaitans that brings this about: the lust to lord it over others. What kind of a family is that? Not the family of God surely, not the Body of Christ. No it is a counterfeit of the Body of Christ. It is a realm where power reigns and masks are worn and spiritual abuse is rampant. Perhaps Hosea speaks to this when he points out the difference between talking the talk and walking the walk.

    Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

    David learned this principle and sought forgiveness from God.

    Ps 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

    Perhaps we are living in the last days when our Blessed Lord’s admonition to the Laodiceans speaks to the American church in the 21st century:

    14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
    These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
    19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
    21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

    God help the Calvary Chapel Movement. Pray for them. Pray for them all.

  19. Truly a sad display here of a lack of understanding. While the are SOME pastors, not only in CC but in every church “denomination”, who betray the Word of God and fleece the flock, that is not the majority. And while your opinions are interesting, they are biased and not based in the Love of Christ, or a desire for truth. You come up with all these examples of poor leadership and error and how a church should be run, but you have no examples of what you believe to be good churches, you are not taking the commission into your own hands and shepherding a flock yourselves, but criticizing without accountability. Look at the “this vs. that” of the churches… How do CC pastors live? What are their salaries? If you think they are not scholarly” enough, then point out errors in their doctrine or teachings.. Based on biblical truths… Calvary Chapels have accountability from other “peer” churches in the area, and the one I attend has a weekly meeting where the area pastors meet and talk to one another. The Calvary Chapel I attend has a pastor that is more than willing to listen, discuss, defend, or change based on reason… You try to paint the system with a brush of corruption to your discredit. Your hostility and contempt is evident, and you are in fact, “judging the book” by one cover…

  20. Patrick,

    Thank you sharing your perspective regarding what this site is attempting to bring forth into the light to warn others of the corruption and abuses inherent in the CC churches.

    You stated in part that: “You come up with all these examples of poor leadership and error and how a church should be run, but you have no examples of what you believe to be good churches, you are not taking the commission into your own hands and shepherding a flock yourselves, but criticizing without accountability. Look at the “this vs. that” of the churches… How do CC pastors live? What are their salaries? If you think they are not scholarly” enough, then point out errors in their doctrine or teachings.. Based on biblical truths… Calvary Chapels have accountability from other “peer” churches in the area, . . . ..”

    What these statements tell me is that you have not really spent much time on this site, because if you had you would have found:

    1) Information concerning a healthy church that included church discipline of congregants and leadership alike, with scriptural reference being constantly offered.

    2) Information the Moses Model and why it is not scriptural and how it literally separates the church from the leadership. Information regarding the nom membership status of people who are not in a leadership role.

    3) The historical underpinnings of Calvary Chapel and its “distinctives” with various discussions concerning the lack of scriptural basis for such.

    4) The lack of scholarly academia preparing such for ordination.

    5) The lack of scholarly criticism that would include teachings beyond Chuck Smith tapes, books, and videos. The lack of accreditation of CCBC and justification it uses to avoid such accountability. The very nature of the brain washing that takes place that does not permit a much broader education that would include far better hermeneutics and other area of studies that would provide a far better understanding on how to address the leaven and abuses that takes place within the body of Christ.

    6) The rampant abuses of women, children, and those who would ask question concerning church funds, tithes, and offerings.

    7) Your own lack of failing to read through the frequent testimony that such abuses and corruption has been brought to the leadership, but to no avail.

    8) Your assumption that those who support this site have not gone on witnessing to unbelievers while supporting their brothers and sisters in Christ as they go through the suffering and grief of not being protected by those who did abuse them within CC.

    9) Although there are churches mention at time concerning some comparison relating to a specific practice, overall no list has been provided. But then again, no list is required and your argument that since one is not provided, therefore, there is no substance in CC needing to repent and to make right the wrongs done does not stand, simply due to one reason and one reason alone. We do not need to compare CC with other churches, as we have God’s Word to determine these things. God does not like child molestors, adulterers, fleecing of the flock, liars, and those who cover up these things. Period. What more, Paul teaches that we need to expose the evil and hold to an account those who would commit such things.

    10) I think you greatest error is your understanding regarding accountability. It is the same error that many of us held at one time, so I don’t fault you too much for not knowing. But now you have come to a site that have step out to warn you and to ask you to read some more before you jump ahead of yourself and speak of things you obviously do not know. Calvary chapel are not affiliation with one another. The Pastors are affiliated with one another. No Pastor can remove another pastor from his church, because the Pastor is not accountable to anyone per Calvary Chapel Distinctives and Moses Model. What more the only way that a Pastor can be remove is to take the Dove away from him. That, my friend is not accountability. That my friend is in essence is like having a men’s club without members but supported its nonmembers by selling a product that appears to be founded upon the Rock of Salvation.

    On this site, most are comments made by those who have attended CC for a good length of their time. What more the occupations or profession of these are teachers, businessmen and women, accountants, attorneys, clinician, counselors, wives, husbands, and children who have grown up in CC. We don’t do this to split the body or to bring a false witness against any. Quite the contrary—it is because we are Christians that we do possess the conviction and the love to step up out of the darkness placed upon us due to the ungodly activities, behaviors, and attitude of CC leadership to speak that which was an effort by CC leadership to cover up by silencing or to be silence on that which aught not even be named with the church body of Christ, Jesus. And in that, being a brother in the Lord, be careful to be so readily to criticize us and tell us that it is we who are in error instead. What you believe to be true about CC is only the surface of what we thought to be true at one time. But the truth that lies beneath is the fruit that bears witness to these things can be found on this blogsite.

    So, please spend a lot more time on this site and take the suggestions offered to find out for yourself. It’s easy to determine if these things be true in what has been shared, that is if you know what to look for after being better informed.

    Will be looking forward to hearing from you again after you do.

  21. Patrick, one other comment I would like to make to you. We know that there are some CC churches that are much better than others. At the same time, we also have attempted to state that if an affiliated pastor is aware or have become aware of a pastor abusing its church attendees (can’t say members, because CC do not acknowledge them, no matter what they may tell you—-they don’t have a voice in church decision and they cannot hold the leadership to an account), and have been asked to step in to enable that accountability to take place, but do not, scripturally speaking that Pastor or church leader is as guilty as the person committing the wrong doing.

    There are a lot of nice CC Pastors in the system. But to remain silent and claim that it is not of their affair, yet to gain benefit from the CC Dove, may assure them of not being place at risk of losing their livelihood, but it does nothing in the way of honoring the Lord and walking in obedience to His word regarding “His” church.

    You being a brother are also now held to an account of these things as you are now aware of what, in particular, Alex has shared, as well as others. What will you do to step up to the plate to address these things? Will you write a letter to the pastors, incuding Chuck Smith and the Regional Leaders asking them to bring Bob Grenier to an account. It is a systemic problem that affects all the CC churches and those who seek to be a part of it.

    Patrick, please understand, it is highly unlikely that there is one CC Pastor who is not familiar with these things. They have just chosen to go along to get along. That’s all.

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  24. […] Chuck Smith’s Creeds: The Calvary Chapel “Distinctives.” […]

  25. Rachael: I have moved your comment to the current post here for discussion.

  26. Hi,
    How does Greg Laurie and Harvest Christian Fellowship fit into the fray of things here? Would you consider him complicit as well to the various accusations and indictments that are being made on this web site against the Calvary Chapel system?

    No ax to grind here but rather just curious …?
    Respectfully in Christ,
    T.P.

  27. I don’t get zillions of complaints about Greg Laurie, so that’s a good sign that he’s doing something right.

    Here’s my take on Greg (my opinion based on personal experience, friends who know him well, observations over the years and the feedback from the blog):

    Good guy, big celebrity, more a politician than a statesman.

    His endorsement of TBN is troubling, his endorsement and going with the flow in Calvary Chapel (despite his knowledge of abuses, but choosing to politician over them for the good of the Brand and his relationship with Chuck).

    Greg strikes me as a guy who is like a Rick Warren, a good-hearted celebrity pastor who likes being popular and wants to be everyone’s friend.

  28. Wow… this is a bitter site. Lots of planks here, thats for sure.

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