Aug 192010
 

Searching for a man of God...and not a lawyer and/or businessman to pick up the other end of the rope and bring resolution to this terrible situation. Brian Brodersen of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa...are you that man?

Brian,

I am sending this correspondence to you instead of Chuck Smith and Roger Wing. I’ve been told Chuck is pretty much not active anymore…and/or has reviewed the Bob Grenier situation and given Bob a thumbs up as is. I have contacted Chuck privately…no response. I’ve sent much communication to Roger Wing…and I don’t trust him after learning about much corruption and cover up. What is the deal? Are you guys really men of God…or rather businessmen? Why is the Bob Grenier situation being stone-walled and not dealt with?

Read CalvaryChapelAbuse.com. Read all the testimonies. Bob has a trail of hurt lives and ruined lives in his wake…and more are being hurt right now due to his terrible leadership.

You guys give him power by giving him a Dove. You need to hold him to account and bring some discipline. Bob should not be a pastor…he is disqualified per 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Why have you not taken action? Why does Bob Grenier still get the full endorsement of Calvary Chapel by the fact that he is still affiliated? I’m asking you Brian, in the hopes that I can find one man in a leadership position at CC that is Spiritual and worried more about doing what’s right…than protecting the Business. Please contact me so we can discuss this matter.

Matt DeWitt has given me some counsel…and I’m open to it…if I have a willing partner on the other end of the rope. If you guys simply ignore this and stone-wall and/or endorse the Bob situation…that is not right in my opinion. You can reach me at xxx-xxx-xxxx or by the email address I’ve provided.

Sincerely,

Alex Grenier

[This communication was sent via email to two separate email addresses at CCCM with a return reply that it was received]

 Posted by at 7:10 pm

  80 Responses to “Open Letter to Brian Brodersen Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa”

  1. The shock waves that are rippling across the international CC movement are a direct result of Bob Grenier’s stubborn refusal to be held accountable by his Elder Board and church for his many acts of abuse over the past 25+ years. He has three (not one) sons who are bringing these charges of child abuse into the light. There are former Elders and staff members that want to be able to have Bob Grenier answer to his heavy-handed harassement and slander of their reputations. There are church members that want to know where and how their sacrificial gifts have been spent. There are hundreds of CCV members that want answers to these claims, and if they prove true, they want Bob Grenier removed and forced to pay restitution to the CCV church body. The communities near Visalia want to see this crisis get taken care of now.

    It is incredibly hard to believe that Chuck Smith would allow a scoundrel like Bob Grenier to bring down wrath on the entire CC movement. Don’t all you worldwide readers find that to be one of the most unwise decisions Chuck has ever made? It appears that there is enough genuine dirt surfacing to make BG’s crisis seem like a kindergarden playground in comparison. And to think, if only BG would have met his three sons last year, we may never have heard of the scandals that are seeing the light now.

  2. The facts are, as long as the checks keep clearing and the sheeple keep coming the religious “leaders’ will keep ignoring and buying their Tommy Bahama’s. Much like PP, the majority wont find anything out, or if they do they will consider the facts then go on. As long as they are comfortable they wont want to overturn the applecart.

    Justice this side of Heaven can only be found when the leaders find themselves slightly uncomfortable. CC is no more honest or pious than the Rome they claim to detest. They decry the rape of children of God by the priests and the Papal coverup…and then they do the same and their Pope gets to cover it up. AHHH but he is Papa Chuck and can do no wrong.

    This is why i have joined Anne Rice and left the “church” entirely…its just another club like the elks and the Masons…and Christ is not to be found within. He is with the individual, not the organization

  3. Much like PP should be, much like with Phoenix Preacher and Alb or CSN, people will ignore the facts presented if they make them uncomfortable

  4. I want to offer an Open Letter to Bob Grenier:
    I, and many others, have sound reasons to believe you are a fool by biblical standards. Your silence and pompous grandstanding does not fool us anymore. I have some questions for you:
    Did you abuse your three sons in any way? I want to hear Gayle’s response to that question too. I would like to see your faces when you respond to read the body language as well.
    Did you abuse Gayle in any way over the years? I want to hear Gayle’s response as well.
    How do you answer the very revealing comments that Gayle’s mother made on several occasions about family matters?
    Some people in public have heard a relative of yours admit that the Grenier family has been ‘dysfunctional’. (Someone not related to Alex, Paul, and Geoff) What do you say to that?
    Did you ever call Glick Callahan a ‘senile’ man? Did you ever slander him in any other way? Glick is advanced in years, and time is limited to reconcile with him before he is welcomed home by Christ.
    Have you ever slandered Glen Cardaronella? Are you still enjoying a warm relationship with him? If not, why not? Glen is a man of very high character. What reason did you give for removing him from the Board?
    What did you actually write to the Johnson brothers? They only served in Visalia for a year. Why? What lead to their removal from the staff?
    Where did this Mr. Gold come from? Is he serving an internship for a few months, or is his contract indefinite?
    Is it true that another of your staff members (Josh Bruno) is leaving? Why? What is your or his reasons for leaving?
    Is it true that you can basically spend the church finances as you see fit? Is it true that you purchased a vehicle with church money without the approval of the Board? Why did you do that?

    Bob Grenier, you are deeply in sin and very self-deceived. You are the enemy. Did you hear that? You are the enemy. You will be the last man standing…”Standing your ground”. But you will be the last fool standing. In the next six months, your comfort zone is going to evaporate, and your only recourse will be to beg for mercy. I am not sure there will be many if any who will extend that to you. I think the only thing you can do now is to minimize the extent of your discipline when it comes. You are in deep water and I don’t think you will be able to swim out of this one. I don’t think I even have any pity for you anymore. I am ashamed of you. I really do not want to associate with you or know you anymore. Your silence and stonewalling has absolutely convinced me that you are hiding all this from the public. You have no defense. I think it is time for you to give up or be removed. Choose your way while you have a choice.

  5. eric, yr right. i heard him call Glick a “senile old man” with my own ears. and I know from a reliable source that one of the Johnson brothers saw his employee file while in the office very recently…total lies were written in it to justify the “difference of ministry philosophy”…he was very hurt.

    and what would several women who give their lives in service to CCV say if i revealed their names as those who Gayle and Susie Dowds counselled me years ago, as a “young ministry up-and-comer”, to not hang out with…instead, i was told to fellowship with one of the pastor’s wives who was later found to be in adultery…

    everything is wrong here…shame on those still there who are defending Bob because of their own comfort…

  6. Jason and Ann Gold need to be warned. Before they make the biggest mistake of their lives. It looks like (on facebook) that they have children. Help save them. Under their Face Book name Jason and Ann Gold is a list of 2 websites with phone #’s and other contact info. At least FB message them to pray hard and investigate.

    Don’t you wish someone had warned you.

  7. These days in Costa Mesa the one man who may be able to take any action and who is a fair thinker is Brian. I was told by a man whom I used to respect that Brian has done some horrible things. The man who told me these things himself proved to be talking out of both sides of his mouth and I no longer consider him trustworthy. Another man who I respect told me Brian is fair. In this case, I would ask Brian to be fair, not to listen to the voices of Wing or Rosales, but to take an object look into this situation. I know that Brian is quite busy, but I ask that he take some time and give this situation an objective evaluation. Of all people, Brian knows that many times things are not as the are presented.

    Calvary Chapel Outreach Fellowship needs to take some type of responsibility over the pastor whom they affiliate. To not do so casts a shadow of doubt over all of us.

  8. Undercover, Matt DeWitt has reported similar…in regards to Brian Brodersen being a reasonable and good man…and that Brian has the “authority” if you will to do something…as Chuck Sr. is pretty much on the farewell tour and not interested in dealing with anything…though I have conflicting reports from others within CC who say that Chuck Sr. looked into the matter and endorses Bob Grenier as is…meaning Bob hasn’t done anything in Chuck Sr.’s judgment of the situation that would require Calvary Chapel to disaffiliate Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia.

    It is interesting to me that Roger Wing of CCOF and Chuck Smith Sr. himself got directly involved with regards to a particular Calvary Chapel in SoCal in the not too distant past about an issue, in my opinion, much less serious than the MOUNTAIN of abuses and corruption by Bob Grenier.

    Why did they drop the hammer and bring “accountability” to right what they perceived was wrongs in one situation…(and in my opinion…the leadership at that CC did the best they could with a bad situation and did not require Chuck Smith Sr. and Roger Wing coming down on them like a ton of bricks)…yet stonewalling and/or complicity in the Bob Grenier situation?

    Do the Bob Grenier abuses and corruption not measure up to a Calvary Chapel standard of abuses that require “accountability”?

    …because I’ve got several examples of other actions “they” have taken where the violations were similar or inferior to what Bob has done…and CC looked into those other matters quite extensively.

    Why are they handling the Bob situation so differently?

    …and if “they” have looked into the Bob situation…why have they not spoken to me or my brothers? Why have they not interviewed the long list of those making accusations? Why have they not communicated what “they’ve” done to look into the matter? Why no proclamation of their findings and the rationale of their choice to endorse Bob as a Calvary Chapel pastor in good standing?

  9. Good luck getting a biblical response if any. When I wrote to Brian about a new young Pastor at Calvary Chapel Vista acting contrary to what God requires I was called an accuser of the brethren (satan) and was also told if the heading of my next email did not contain the words I repent, it would be deleted immediately. Brian is not interesed in what is correct biblically. He is however very protective of those he has chosen as the called. He will even completely disregard scripture to further his agenda.

  10. know better now says:
    August 20, 2010 at 12:13 am
    [eric, yr right. i heard him call Glick a “senile old man” with my own ears. and I know from a reliable source that one of the Johnson brothers saw his employee file while in the office very recently…total lies were written in it to justify the “difference of ministry philosophy”…he was very hurt.

    and what would several women who give their lives in service to CCV say if i revealed their names as those who Gayle and Susie Dowds counselled me years ago, as a “young ministry up-and-comer”, to not hang out with…instead, i was told to fellowship with one of the pastor’s wives who was later found to be in adultery…

    everything is wrong here…shame on those still there who are defending Bob because of their own comfort…]

    Know Better Now,

    I am so very disappointed in what you were a part of with the inner circle. You were told not to fellowship with certain women at CCV who were “giving their lives in service” to the Lord and were instructed to fellowship with an exclusive group. Yup, you just confirmed what I always suspected and could not figure out for so long. It’s called favoritism and it’s evil and it’s hurtful to those who were snubbed. Is there a written list or do the women just whisper to each other and shake their heads in disapproval. I don’t think the women who you were told to snub would benefit from this information.

  11. Know Better Now,

    I commend you for seeing that the counsel you were given many years ago was wrong and that you can move on like many of us have and even forgive Susie and Gayle.

  12. Alex,
    Can you remove my 8:07 post? I wasn’t quite finished and it posted twice. Thanks. YM

  13. YM…done. :smile:

  14. Admin,
    Has Brian responded?

    I’m holding my breath….

  15. WTC…no, Brian has not responded.

    …you’re probably going to pass out waiting ;-)

  16. WTC…just called CCCM…and asked for Brian…he is out teaching…etc.

    Anna took the message, was aware of the emails…and said she’d tell him I called.

    …we’ll see what happens.

  17. Okay,
    I do believe Brian is a reasonable man. I am hoping that he, and he alone will step in.
    I must also consider what he is going through… It must be very tough to walk in his shoes and deal with all the issues at CCCM, CCOF and also know there are several long-time CC Sr.’s that would love to take off his head.

    I’m still going to pray about this!

  18. WTC, I believe at some point…a leader within CC…who represents the Movement in a senior-level capacity…and make no mistake…there is a Hierarchy…needs to step up, step out and take a clear stand for addressing the Bob Grenier situation (which is an example representing all of the other situations)…and take a stand for what’s right.

    There must be some sort of Church conflict resolution process…and some sort of Pastoral Standard…if a Movement/Organization such as CC is going to be “affiliating” and endorsing 1400 Senior Pastors around the World.

  19. ALEX SAID:
    “WTC, I believe at some point…a leader within CC…who represents the Movement in a senior-level capacity…and make no mistake…there is a Hierarchy…needs to step up, step out and take a clear stand for addressing the Bob Grenier situation (which is an example representing all of the other situations)…and take a stand for what’s right.”

    Alex you should change your name to “Way Too Niave”. They’re not going to do anything because they figure this blog you’ve got going is giving you all the therapy you need to deal with your problems all by yourself without any intervention from them! If they believe your blogging is a way for you to validate your feelings and purge things inside of you why would they interfere with that? Earth to Alex. Poor Alex ;-)

  20. Mike S…have you considered that this is not about me…

  21. …this isn’t just about “me”…it’s about my brothers, my mother, the large group of former CCV family/friends…the Faith Lowery’s, the other girl who was molested and told not to report, the woman who was given cult-like counseling and almost ruined, the Tina Jenkin’s, the Lori B’s, the Janelle Aldrich’s, the Johnsons, the Your Mom’s, the Freedoms!, the Wide Awakes, the former staff, elders and pastor’s who have been chewed up and spit out…the WTC’s, the Sheck’s, the Michael N’s, many of those on the Phoenix Preacher…and many nameless, faceless “vote with your feet” ex-CC’ers out there.

    …it’s also a form of accountability for those who remain in sin…and a “tell it unto the church”.

  22. Alex I support you and are fully aware that this blog you started is mainly about your and your brothers’ abuse, the Grenier family conflict and CCV and all those other people you mention. Sure the domain name is calvarychapelabuse.com but we are aware that the main focus is CCV and your endless effort to get your dad to submit to a Biblical resolution. It’s ok that this is your blog. Sure abuse victims from other CCs are happy and thankful for a chance to weigh in from time to time but it always comes back to you and CCV as well it should. We respect the time and effort you’ve invested in this blog, and from time to time the frustration you feel is easy to observe by all,and we share your pain.I bet this blog has the potential, if it hasn’t already, to take over your life. I’m sure there are times when a new comment can totally change your mood and run you through the gammut of emotions…make or break your day. In the end, I believe resolution will come for you/us when we begin moving in the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit as part of our relationship with God. And, no this is quite that Todd Bentley stuff like visiting Heaven and meeting with the Apostle Paul etc…

  23. should read: “…no this is NOT quite that Todd Bentley stuff like visiting Heaven and meeting with the Apostle Paul etc…

  24. And it’s NOT the speaking in tongues stuff either which I have yet to see serve any meaningul purpose in the local church today

  25. Mike S…it is impossible to remove my personal experience, emotions etc. from this.

    However, the issue is multi-faceted…and not “just” about me. That was what I was trying to articulate.

    Bob is a microcosm of the problems that can occur (and are enabled) by a Church Government structure (or lack of) that is perpetuated by the Moses Model…and the CC ethos/culture. Obviously, not in nearly all instances…but we have rules in our society to protect people from the Bad Guys. Within CC, there is little if no structure or venue or procedure etc to do such. That should change. It isn’t Scriptural.

    So while on one level…this situation is focused on Bob and CCV…and is dearly personal…it is on another level a much broader issue.

    If any good is going to come of this…I hope people are warned…and that people make changes….and that people avoid the same mistakes that I’ve made…that Bob has made and that CC has made….(and are currently making).

    “Vote with your feet” is not a Just or Biblical option, IMO.

    Neither is sweeping sin / abuse / corruption issues within CC under the rug and behind the Stone Wall of silence and secrecy.

    The Bible says, “those who remain in sin, rebuke publicly so that others may take warning”…the Bible also says if Matt. 18 is ignored or fails to bring repentance…to “tell it unto the Church”…

    …nowhere do I see a Scripture that says the remedy is “Vote with your feet”…

  26. For the record…in my opinion the Todd Bentley’s and Benny Hinn’s of the “Church World” should be run out on a rail.

    They are charlatans and deceivers…and if Jesus were walking the earth today in physical form…He’d be turning over some tables with regards to those money-changers.

    However, there will always be people who gladly give their money to hucksters…and there will always be hucksters who are glad to take their money…supply and demand…I guess ;-)

  27. “…nowhere do I see a Scripture that says the remedy is “Vote with your feet”…”

    But CC pastors do not interpret scriptures the same way as other protestant church pastors. That is the reality of what we are dealing with. Don’t know if their failure to interpret scriptures properly is due to ignorance or deliberate sin/disobedience.

  28. “For the record…in my opinion the Todd Bentley’s and Benny Hinn’s of the “Church World” should be run out on a rail.”

    I listen to them all and it’s like eating fish: you eat the meat, but spit out the bones. And you have to be on your spiritual toes to be able to discern meat from bones.

  29. usually there’s too much bones you have to spit out…

  30. …I was gonna comment Mike S…that picking meat out of a Benny Hinn or T.B. circus performance would be like picking meat off a three-month-old Saharan Desert carcass.

  31. Obviously, Mike S., you are not on your spiritual toes if you watch them! Are you kidding me?! These men make a mockery of Jesus, and teach the opposite of what Jesus taught.

  32. “Obviously, Mike S., you are not on your spiritual toes if you watch them! Are you kidding me?! These men make a mockery of Jesus, and teach the opposite of what Jesus taught.”

    Not true Sunshine. In fact, because I am on my spiritual toes I CAN watch them. See how that works?

    1 Thess 5:21 “By all means use your judgment, and hold on to whatever is good.”

    A.W. Tozer: “Among the gifts of the Spirit scarcely one is of greater practical usefulness than the gift of discernment. This gift should be highly valued and frankly sought as being almost indispensable in these critical times. This gift will enable us to distinguish the chaff from the wheat and to divide the manifestations of the flesh from the operations of the Spirit.”
    ———————————– ;-) ——————————
    Hold on to the meat not the bones, the wheat not the chaff! Goddit?!

  33. Mike…I understand your point. People like you who have a clear gift of discernent have an obligation to use that gift for building up the Body of Christ. Many do not have an ability to sort meat from bone. Because of that, they can get ‘burned’. So those of us who see through the superficiality of someone like Benny Hinn, must warn believers to be very cautious in placing their loyalties in a mere man.

    I’m sorry if I appear to be straddling the fence on this one but I also agree with Alex. If someone has demonstrated a pattern of ridiculous and unstable behavior that has lead to the instability of sound faith in others, then I would seek to run them out of town. Charatans that tell the truth all the time are rare. Charatans generally bring mockery to the name of God by their foolish lives. We need to help them with career counseling and move them into something more appropriate like used car sales.

  34. Would you people stop waiting for ‘Brian’ to come to your rescue like a knight in shining armor! Start the lawsuits! Get on TV! Make some waves! If you think ‘Brian’ will do anything, then you must believe that Congress will listen to the little people! Wake up and smell the coffee!

  35. anonymouse…I am giving it another try on the advice of a friend I trust. Matt DeWitt believes there is a chance with Brian Brodersen. There are others who I trust and receive input from who believe there is a chance with Brodersen as well.

    I will exhaust every last opportunity. This isn’t a sprint…it’s a marathon.

  36. Alex,

    My main concern about Brian is that he is part of the establishment. At some point he will be ‘reigned in’ and will be made to ‘understand’ why they don’t want to get involved in this. Whenever you go up against the establishment (religious or government) the most common tactics are delay, deny, destroy evidence. So maybe he’ll be used to string you along for a while or maybe he won’t respond at all(that’s my bet). I think enough time has passed already but its your call and I wouldn’t want to advise you not to follow your heart. But if this doesn’t go anywhere fast, then its time to go big or go home as they say.

  37. “People…who have a clear gift of discernent have an obligation to use that gift for building up the Body of Christ. Many do not have an ability to sort meat from bone. Because of that, they can get ‘burned’. So those of us who see through the superficiality of someone like Benny Hinn, must warn believers to be very cautious in placing their loyalties in a mere man.”

    There is a price to pay for having that gift, and at times it can be very high. It is a tough call and calling to disturb the peace, cause a ruckus and upset church leaders with the Truth. It involves having the mind of a scholar, the heart of a child, and the hide of a rhinoceros all working in perfect harmony. The problem is how to toughen your hide without hardening your heart. Such a calling can be lonely, sometimes discouraging and usually misunderstood.

  38. It’s a tuff job Mike but somebodys gotta do it and where God guides He provides. So stay strong bro. Your reward will be great!

  39. There is a price to pay for having that gift, and at times it can be very high. It is a tough call and calling to disturb the peace, cause a ruckus and upset church leaders with the Truth. It involves having the mind of a scholar, the heart of a child, and the hide of a rhinoceros all working in perfect harmony. The problem is how to toughen your hide without hardening your heart. Such a calling can be lonely, sometimes discouraging and usually misunderstood.

    Know first hand what you are saying. I am that man.

  40. Alex,
    Perhaps you should call the FDA to investigate CC Visalia. They just inspected their first farm due to the salmonella outbreak from eggs and they found a whole host of flies, maggots, worms and the like.

    Just tell them there is salmonella at CC Visalia and I bet they discover the same conclusion located in a 21 X 24 office.

    Just sayin’…. ya’ know?

  41. Update: 6.034 unique IP address visitors to date…from all over the U.S. and the world.

    Over 142,000 hits since July 3, 2010.

    “rebuke them publicly”…”tell it unto the church”…

    …and from Chuck Smith Sr., “where God guides, He provides”…

  42. Alex, I want to encourage you in speaking out and trying to resolve this issue. Although your situation is none of my business I cannot understand why no one in the Calvary system addresses this issue. The failure to engage you and the others harmed by someone who represents themselves as a CC pastor is shocking. If there is any shred of compassion towards those who have spoken up on this blog your cries can’t be ignored. Why have the cries of the wounded gone unanswered? Is Brian afraid to respond or even acknowledge your letter? What could he or anyone else from CCCM possibly have to lose that is worth holding on to? There appears to be an unhealthy bondage in the system that endorses one who displays none of the love that Christ represents to us. The Moses model is an unhealthy model filled with opportunities of abuse by those in leadership. Why do so many who seem so loving cling to these unhealthy values?

  43. Just want to encourage anyone who reads this to get Esther DeWitt’s book, ‘There is a Cult Leader in My Kitchen’. It doesn’t take too long to read it for those of you who are busy, but it has helped me in my understanding of unhealthy church and spiritual relationships and spiritual abuse. As lovers of Jesus we do make excuses and overlook behaviors that aren’t always healthy. We are forgiving by Jesus’ nature but there comes a time when we need to ‘step up to the plate’ and speak up against these dominating, spiritually abusive behaviors. There is a link to the fiftyhours.com website under the blogroll, you can get the book there.

  44. I have been goin to calvary for about three years.Although i dont attend all the time,i enjoy and appreciate my time there.My kids love it there,and so does my family.pastor bob has brouhgt me out of the darkness into the light.i had been to many churches in visalia,and none of them compare to calvary.i have talked to pastor bob,he told me about all his kids.i dont think its fair to see 4 people on here blasting my pastor.im sorry but the truth hurts,one is a lady that said pastor talked to her rudely,then she stayed for two years after that,then she finally left.im sorry but if it was that bad you shouldve left right then.we are suppose to be christians,we are to love our enemies.we have to be honest no pastor in this world is a saint,that doesnt mean hes a bad guy.and it doesnt matter what the pastor gets paid thats his buisness,and as far as his family buisness thats suppose to stay in the family,once again if it was that bad you wouldve said something right then and there.calvary chapel visalia is the best church in the valley,and best cafe.it has brought me and my family to a great place with jesus.im sorry but this is typical america,a bunch of whining and crying cause things didnt go your way.well i love calvary visalia thank u pastor bob for showing me the light,for i once was lost ,but now im found god bless everyone

  45. Red Dog, I totally understand how you feel. I used to be you. I thought like you. But, now my eyes have been opened. I don’t want to be rude but you really have no idea what you are talking about. These people on here have been wounded and crushed. I know many of them personally. The whole world is not wrong! It is the same story over and over. Obviously you have never been hurt like this. It is arrogant of you to say that they are a bunch of whining, crying people. They are not. Many, many, many good, wonderful people have left this church. Do you think they are all a bunch of cry babies? Please don’t acquire the arrogant attitude that I have seen at this church over and over again. Jesus loves mercy and so should you and so should all of us. Many at this church bring reproach upon the name of Jesus. CCV brings reproach upon the name of Jesus. There is hardly a time that I go out into the public and not hear a bad story about Calvary Visalia or it’s leadership. I hear stories from individuals and other churches. And, these stories do not have anything to do with this blog. They are personal stories from people who have had bad experiences with some from this church. Why do you think this is?

    I’m glad that you have been shown Jesus. God’s Word never returns void, or, God’s Word always has a good affect on us, no matter how we hear it. I’m glad you like the cafe, but that really has little to do with anything. Seek Jesus and remember that Jesus Never Fails, but man will always fail us at some point.

  46. RED DOG,

    Very cult-like response…sad, but a good reminder of the dynamic at play there.

    RED DOG…your comments, though sincere, are very disconcerting.

    Very “man centered”…”prophet-centered”…and not very “Christ centered”.

    “Pastor Bob has brought me out of the darkness into the light”….

    And….

    “calvary chapel visalia is the best church in the valley,and best cafe.it has brought me and my family to a great place with jesus.im sorry but this is typical america,a bunch of whining and crying cause things didnt go your way.well i love calvary visalia thank u pastor bob for showing me the light,for i once was lost ,but now im found god bless everyone”

    No commentary required on that testimony. Prayer, however, much required:

    God, remove idols that we men place ahead of you. Knock them down…take away our comfort so our Faith is in You…and our worship and adoration for You and You alone. You are a Jealous God…and rightfully so. You are a Just God…and rightfully so. You are a Loving God….and rightfully so. Save us from ourselves.

  47. Red Dog, I find it difficult to believe you are a real person and not a fabrication of a CCV insider. While your comment appears sincere at first glance the more I read it it does not appear to be that of someone truly seeking the truth. You begin by saying how Bob has brought you out of darkness into the light, glorifying Bob. Then you go on the attack. Diminishing the other churches in the community, trivializing the horrible claims of others who who have come forward on this blog and then implying that those who stand against Bob are not behaving in a “proper” Christian manner. Then you say that the behavior of a pastor in private towards his family is none of the congregations business. What bible is that statement from? The one that says “God helps those who help themselves”? Then you finish your letter with an endorsement of the church, the pastor and even the cafe. Sounds more like a political endorsement than a true letter. We all know how genuine those can be. I believe these comments to be very damaging to the truly wounded who have found the strength to finally stand up to the abusive bullying techniques of some in the pulpit. May God comfort and heal their wounds and rejoice in seeking righteousness and truth.
    If I am wrong in my estimation, Red Dog, then my prayer is that you find strength and hope in the only true savior in your life and that is Jesus Christ.

  48. I will add that God hears our prayers. My prayers…and the prayers of the many others on here who have suffered much hurt and pain from “pastor Bob”…

    God heard my prayers crying out to Him as a young child.

    God heard my prayers crying out to Him as a child and then teen.

    God heard my prayers crying out to Him as a young adult.

    And, God has heard my prayers now.

    God hears…and He is a God of Justice…as well as a God of Mercy and Love.

    Galatians 6:7 God will not be mocked, a man reaps what he sows.

    Romans 12:19

    Micah 6:8

  49. Max…good points…I may have been wrong about the “sincere” part.

  50. Red Dog, you sound so very young. If your post is genuine, I can tell you that many of us were more or less where you were at one time. Whining? Hardly. I, for one, did speak up immediately but was also immediately censured for it among other things. If it hadn’t been for family members, I would have left CCV earlier than I did. My “handle” here, Saw the Light Early, actually should be amended to something longer–Saw the Light Early But Not Soon Enough. Your fearless leader projects a pseudo-calm, clever, charismatic exterior that has fooled many–me included, at one time. He was wreaked havoc in my family’s lives in ways I have yet to articulate fully with Alex. To say he was a stumbling block in my spiritual life would be a gross understatement. I have kept silent for YEARS w/o whining–I went on with my life, albeit with spiritual scars that bear the name of CCV and its “benevolent dictator.” He excels in intimidation and subterfuge and has carefully formed mutually beneficial connections, some of which I was privy to their inceptions. He is not the only one with connections.

  51. We worship the Lord God Almighty…..not an earthly man…..never put a pastor on a pedestal. Worth mentioning here: cult like atmosphere, nepotism, preferential treatment, financial secrecy, ushers used as guards, closed circle of chosen staff. Just there a very short time and began to notice a controlled church. Some that have left are concerned Alex that you are just angry and trying to get even. I’ve read all of the blog, and I do not agree, but do be careful. You are quoting scripture which is the right thing to do, but that can be countered by defensive scripture when someone approaches those who defend the church. Satan knows the scriptures well. We are all praying for truth, but it may take time. All who read this may God bless you and keep you and give you His discernment for truth.

  52. Red Dog is one of many who still believe in Bob no matter how many of us stand up and share our experiences from our hearts. I don’t want to be negative, in my opinion Bob will always have worshipers. We seem to have a built in wickedness that drives us to worship the golden calf.

  53. moving on…good input, IMO.

    and about this, “Some that have left are concerned Alex that you are just angry and trying to get even.”

    They’re right, I am angry. I’m not trying to “get even”…I’m trying to get Justice and Accountability.

    Is it wrong to want Justice and Accountability? Is God not a God of Justice? Are there not Pastoral Standards in the Bible? Are there not Spiritual principles…and societal rules that are opposed to abuse and corruption?

    When you have been abused like I have…and witnessed the abuses I have…the anger is part of the deal. Especially when it is your pastor and it is ignored and enabled by your church.

  54. I WAS abused…..I feel your pain believe me. It takes one to know one in that sense. Anger can be okay when it’s righteous anger. Justice may not always be possible, but with God all things are possible. So we have to pray, pray, pray! I do pray you receive God’s healing and that this is resolved here on earth. Not many will discern truth, not many will question, and some may leave. I have no way of knowing how many have left the church. All I know is that I feel better now that I have clarity. You almost have to leave to get it too. I pray those who are staying will be on “their toes”. I know you need to resolve the issues. I’m assuming Brian hasn’t answered you. What we have here is that the focus is two fold. One is church abuse and the other child abuse. People have said to me….it happened….but that was a long time ago, and who hasn’t done some sin? A clear dismissal of such a horrible thing. Fear drives some from getting involved, and comfort drives others to contribute. Abusers are trapped in a mindset that they are totally accepting. They rationalize and are very manipulative. I don’t have first hand knowledge of any of your issues, but I do have my own personal experience. Not hard to accept this as truth. Too bad some won’t believe it. The interesting thing is that people who have left do see church abuse. Blessings.

  55. The church abuse has happened…and is (present tense) happening now. There are many potential ‘whistleblowers’. We are not talking about a few dozen, we are talking about hundreds who have first hand experiences to share. Will they share? Maybe. But most are desiring the bad taste to leave their mouths by distancing themselves from BG and the other enablers. Having your spiritual heart ripped out is not easy to get over. I personally feel great sympathy for the many I am aware of who have been greatly disillusioned over the years. Those who are firmly in the grasp of God have been refreshed and cared for. He never leaves his own alone for long.

    Let me ask all of you something. Do you deeply care about righteousness? Do you want to accept this kind of mockery to exist in any church? How will things ever be put in the right if real people do not stand for what is best and right? We must always have a prayer on our breath, and a shovel in our hand. Pray, and work for righteousness. Do you believe that BG abused his role as a pastor? Do you believe he has abused his children? Do you believe he is mocking this whole process of seeking proper accountability for his actions as a man of God? Then what are you to do? Let’s all commit the next two weeks to fervent prayer for God’s will to be done. And then let’s begin reporting the impressions the Lord is placing on our hearts regarding the many things Alex and others have opened the door on in here. We have many readers. Will you all commit to signing in at least once to voice your thoughts? There are over 6000 of you who could provide incredible insight to many. Blessings and peace to all of you dear friends.

  56. max il tell u a little about me, im 32,and i never even heard of jesus tell i did a year in jail.still i didnt bother with it,tell i met my wife,she made me go to church.i got kicked out of almost ten churches for just walking in.when i baptized my kid,at the baptism class for catholics,i got verbally attacked by the speaker for a whole hour and a half.my reputation precedes me,i had given up on churches.calvary chapel was the last church,(which was when jim was there).which i dont know why he left but it really is none of my buisness,i dont want to know how the church is ran,i just am there for the word.i went to the christian store on caldwell and they tried to rip me off for 110 dollars just the other day.you c we have to change christianity in a whole.we cant just pick on one man.jesus said love your enemies.the bible says honor your parents even if there wrong,if they are god will take care of them.i understand you guys are hurt,but this is not the way.i just seen a post that said when is he gonna sit down with his kids and talk,really think about if you were in that situation and everybody wanted to know your buisness with your kids.thats absurd,when is it gonna stop.my mom kicked me out at ten years old,i slept on school roofs and underneath bridges and in laundry mats for two years until i got a mobile home when i was 13.i only went to sixth grade,i couldnt tell nobody i was homeless,i was embarrased.but im not smutting my mom up.i found my dad at 13 we got into a jeep wreck together in arizona when i was 15 he died.i lived.a year later i was stabbed 13 times in the back with a ten inch knife.so believe me when i speak,im by no means trying to argue with anyone weve all had it rough.I wish i would of known jesus back then.we could all help each other,lets be true christians and do the right thing.trust me pastor bob has helped me in a lot of ways,and i have never really sat down and told him half of my life.il pray on it but understand im not against no one i just know we could all be better,and thats what we should focus on

  57. Thank you wide awake….I agree! Yes, we want to move on…., but I still have questions and concern that there are no explanations coming from CCV. I think to myself “how I can I see these things and others don’t?” I have seen several pastor’s fall from the pulpit. It’s more common than we think. They are human and fall into sin of one kind or another. It concerns me that Bob has no formal education, although it’s not necessary to be a pastor. He seems to have been groomed to fit the position and then groomed the position to fit him. I don’t even have all the facts and I’m able to determine my decision to leave. The most damaging evidence was the recent firing of the Johnson brothers. That raised a few questions. It is also well known that the daughter-in-law and grandchildren where escorted out of the church when they approached the cafe. One person witnessed it and told me. I think there are a lot of people just like me who have read this blog and saw the writing on the CCV walls. The whole administrative set up is strange and there is no accountability as has been stated. I witnessed several things that gave me great pause. Let’s do please pray for God to reign justice and righteousness over the past and present. All who read this agree in Jesus Christ name to pray for that. For justice to come swiftly and for us not to gain delight from any harsh results. By faith we walk, not by sight.

  58. Red Dog, I am saddened by the life you have endured. To know the rejection of your mother and the tragedy of your father, the hardships of your youth is impossible. I rejoice in the restoration of your life and the blessing of knowing Christ and having a loving family. I don’t know Jim but am thankful for his loving and accepting you as a brother. Jesus has washed away your sins and accepted you into His family and that is good enough for me.
    You may appreciate the teaching of the word and say that is the only reason you go to church and don’t care about anything that goes on in the leadership or administration. I assure you there is more to church than that. With the internet good teaching can be obtained anywhere. Church is about the fellowship, worship, prayer and the interaction of those with a common belief who love each other. Encouragement and mentoring those around you and building each other up. Accountability for the times when we walk in selfishness and sin. Being transparent in our lives and know there are those around us who love, care and pray for us. People who desire to walk as Jesus walked, reaching out to those who are wounded and weak and holding them up until they receive healing. A light in a dark world. That is how a healthy church functions. You see when these things are not happening we as a church have failed. I believe the desire of those who post here is to be a part of a healthy body and to protect others from the selfish ambitions of some in leadership. Someday as you grow in your walk with the Lord your desire will be to partake in that communion. You will have a concern for all who are wounded, even those within the body and the character of those in leadership will matter.

  59. RED DOG…sorry to hear about all that. Glad Jesus is your Lord and Savior and that you have overcome much in your life with His help. Keep on abiding and welcome to the site.

  60. Red Dog,

    I have never been to Calvary Chapel Vasilia (I currently live in MN). I have never met your pastor, Bob G. I don’t know anyone who posts on this site other than through this site and maybe Facebook. I cannot speak to the claims made here concerning CCV and Bob G.

    However I was involved in starting a Calvary Chapel fellowship here in MN so I do have some insight on the way CC does church. From your own story I can see why you are very protective of Bob G. and his church. As long as you remain dependent on Bob G. and the CC system for your spiritual growth you will be fine. Just don’t rock the boat. Do what you are told. Don’t make waves. Believe whatever they tell you. Accept that you will never be good enough. Understand that YOU are the source of any missunderstanding or miscommunication with your pastor. Never use any material that is NOT CC approved for your spiritual growth. Accept that the pastor is your final authority concerning any dispute. Never seek counsel outside of CC without prior approval.

    I’m sure I could go on for hours, but you get the idea. If you think I am exagerating then stand by. In time you will see exactly what I am writing about.

    Red Dog, I am pleased your life seems to be going in a possitive direction. I hope it continues. If you believe CCV to be the place for you now, by all means, stay and grow. But do so with your eyes wide open. Do not rely on any man for your spiritual journey.

    I wish you all the best.

    Greg

  61. thanks max and greg.i rely on jesus now.bob gave me hope with churches.he made me feel welcome as well as gayle and his son.i definately am loyal to those who r to me.but i will never rely on them.it does hurt to hear all this bad stuff about my church.i just pray that one day christianity goes the way it should,and not for personal gain.im sorry im came strong,i shouldve acted better,please forgive me.i do love my church,i just dont want to hear bad stuff.what i told you guys about my life last night was just a quarter of what ive been through.i hate to c people get hurt.i wish there could be a way where everyone is happy.i want you to know you guys are good and god bless

  62. This is an appeal to Mr. Brodersen.
    I hope you are aware of the devastation of spiritual lives that is occuring in the Visalia area due directly to Bob Grenier’s ungodly actions toward fellow believers. You can think all you want about the way it all appears to you in Southern California but the reality is that as long as this issue remains unsolved, many are losing heart and faith in the church. You and I both know too well how the enemy of our souls works. He is having a field day up here. A numbness of soul is setting in. A creeping cynical attitude is replacing the once gentle breeze of worship. No longer do hands of fellowship offer encouragement because there is fear that the hand that touches will only burn. As a pastor, are you ok with this? As an administrator, are you ok with the CC image being damaged so profoundly. As a follower of Jesus, are you ok to have the name of your Savior dragged through the mud? I hope to God you aren’t.

    This is no joke Brian. Real lives, lives redeemed by an incredible God, are being squashed and crushed under the heartless hand of Bob Grenier. Will you please remove this guy? At least ask him to retire and move in with you. We’re done with him, and the longer you let him stay the worst it is going to get. Cut your loses. Bob will probably be in the courts before too long anyway. And the embarrassment for CC has only just begun. At least that is my impression. If you guys don’t get wise about all this, you may find that an impeccable church resume will not get you in the door when you look for a job outside the church walls. Stand up and deal with this.

  63. On this sad memorial day…the true terrorist of our souls has invaded and attacked the church from within. It is no different than when Achan took what he was told not to and Joshua had to purge the ranks. It is time to purge the ranks of CC of all those who have stained God’s name by secret sins withheld from the people. Leaders who have fleeced their sheep and painted on faces of insincerity must be directly confronted for their mockery. We must start there or the world will continue to mock us, and God will continue to weep.

  64. Sorry everyone for running at the mouth today…I just feel compelled to share.
    This post is for those who are suffering a severe crisis of the soul due to the disillusionment brought on by Bob Grenier’s leadership at Calvary Chapel Visalia.
    When you find yourself in this place, be careful not to make any quick decisions regarding life changes. When you are in a vulnerable position spiritually, the Devil will prey on your souls. Without question, he will bombard you from every side. He will attack with full force, or in a very sutle ways of cunning deception. He will beat your soul down to the point of having no feeling at all. You will feel as though you have been turned inside out.

    How do you protect yourself from this? Stay close to someone who understands the temptations and is willing to ride out the storm with you. What if there is no one to experience it with? What about the profound loneliness that invades your mind? I can assure you that God will not leave you. You may not be well enough to see him, hear his voice, or feel his touch but he is there along side of you all the way.

    My favorite story related to this is when Jesus walked along side of the two dejected men along the road to Emmaus. They openly shared their hearts with him. They spoke with razor-sharp honesty. They spilled out their deepest questions. And did they recognize Jesus? No. Did he try to convince them it was he before their sad story? No. He listened with compassion. He taught them so they could build their confidence again. And what was the result of his interaction with them? They said, “Didn’t our hearts burn within us…”. Their enthusiasm returned. They regained a skip in their step, and they ran back to their friends with new found joy. And they could see it was Jesus who was with them. All that awaits you if you give Jesus a chance to hear you out. He will not let you suffer in pain forever. He will bring sunshine back into your life.

    Are you crying in pain today? Have you been burned by a christian that you once had great admiration for? Do you feel dead to spiritual things now? God often wants us to look back and see those times he delivered us from crisis before. Remember that if he did it before, he will do it again. No matter how dark the clouds are today, the Son will shine on you again.

  65. SNIPETS FROM VARIOUS MISGUIDED POSTERS WHO SEEMED TO HAVE DRUNK
    DOVE-FLAVORED COOLAID:

    “Why did you not speak up about this years ago?”

    “Frankly I believe you are trying to get back at your parents
    for other underhanded reasons.”

    “You sound like a fool with your unfounded claims.”

    “you sound like a spoiled kid who is trying to get bake at your
    parents for something.”

    “…if it was that bad you shouldve left right then”

    “No court cases… no police record… no arrests… no FBI investigations… just a handful of people prepared to say that they felt that the pastor of their church was heavy handed, liked his own way, didn’t listen to anyone, talked down to them and ‘manipulated’ people.”

    “…it doesnt matter what the pastor gets paid thats his buisness…”

    “…the most insecure, most unstable, most bitter people who are displaying the least of the manifestations of the Spirit.”

    Or telling Alex to “…get well” and “…do the Biblical thing, and be healed and released…” rather than try to pursue an unBiblical and flaky means…of obtaining justice”

    “It is kind of a broad brush being used. If it is just about Your step-fathers church then call it what it really is.”

    Incidentally one of the above posters’ name was, up until very recently, listed as “custodian of records” for a porn site which is almost completely removed after much kicking and screaming from the individual.

    GREG SAID:
    However I was involved in starting a Calvary Chapel fellowship here in MN so I do have some insight on the way CC does church. From your own story I can see why you are very protective of Bob G. and his church. As long as you remain dependent on Bob G. and the CC system for your spiritual growth you will be fine. Just don’t rock the boat. Do what you are told. Don’t make waves. Believe whatever they tell you. Accept that you will never be good enough. Understand that YOU are the source of any missunderstanding or miscommunication with your pastor. Never use any material that is NOT CC approved for your spiritual growth. Accept that the pastor is your final authority concerning any dispute. Never seek counsel outside of CC without prior approval.
    ————————————————————————————-
    Greg, I believe what is needed to bolster Alex’s story and to bring about change in a broken system that is the CC authoritarian, abusive, Moses Model form of church government is for people like yourself from other CCs to come forward with more disheartening stories about other CCs. This would give more credibility to the CCV story and debunk the myths that somehow this is an isolated incident with a few malcontents… who couldn’t have their way or that Alex should not be believed because he’s a bitter man with an axe to grind… he’s trying to get even…he’s jealous of his dad… he’s a spoiled brat who couldn’t take a good butt whopping, Bob did the best he could disciplining his unruly cry baby boys….spare not the rod and spoint the child….he needs to just man-up and get over it…these people on here are demon-possessed, mentally unstable, etc

    I’d like to see some of the same people from the Rick Ross site come on here and tell
    their individual stories of abuse from coast to coast and give specifics and upload evidence like emails complete with headers, news paper articles, sermon snipets… and a ton of other supporting documents.

    Here’s the link to the visitor comments on the Rick Ross site:

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/calvary/calvaryvisitor.html

  66. Mike S.

    The Rick Ross site you linked to was one of the first resources I found when I started down this road. One article that resonated deeply with me was the one titled “Loosing My Religion”. If loosing my religion means I never have to be subjected to the abuses of those I once respected then I hope I never find it.

    On the other hand I can also relate to Ryan Ashton’s writing about knowing too much to ever be able to truely abandon the faith. I certainly don’t have answers to even a fraction of the thoughts that crowd my grey matter. I keep hoping that one day this will all make sense and I will recognize or even catch a glimpse of the divine plan in all of the mess.

  67. Hello Brian Broderson,
    Just checking to see if you have any evangelism trips scheduled for London, England this year? ave lived here in socal for over 30yrs but am from London and only want to return to do the LORDS work. My husband and belong to CCChino Hills and evangelise for the”Call” ministry – an AWESOME ministry. Hope to hear back one of these days.
    Thanks in advance,
    Trusting in JESUS,
    carole/agape

  68. If you are Christians where is the grace? Witch of ANY OF US (You especially who made this campaign) is without sin? I have found a love and grace with Christ that can overlook even a murderer, con artist druggy and make him a leader. You need an education in love and grace. So I will give you one. Peter even after denying Jesus was mad e the man who started the first church movement ever. What makes this Bob Graner gentleman any diffrent? I dont know him or you personally but if I went through your life what qualifies you to make a website and drag a guy through the mud? What makes you so special? I bet you have sinned even today yet.. You seem to get over it and move on with your life. Brian Broderson isnt the guy you need.. Its Jesus Christ personally that you need to change your heart to love and make a real imact in this world with love instead of this silly campaign. I love you dude whoever you are but..im gonna keep it real.. No one is thinkin bout you bro. Your not detering anyone from Calvary Chapel that wants to go. They are gonna go anyway meanwhile your website is counter productive and expensive and …. shrugged off by people who you want attention from. I would take a hint cuz they arent gonna wake up and change there mind. I hope you really hear this.ps I deal with diffrent denominations through music and fellowship so I dont have a “Calvary slave mentality or whatever you refered to …. I hope you get someone to pour into that takes your time from this In Jesus Name amen

  69. Kyle Bryant said,

    “… Peter even after denying Jesus was mad e the man who started the first church movement ever. What makes this Bob Graner gentleman any diffrent?”

    I’ll tell you … repentance. Peter repented, Bob Grenier has not.

    Kind David was an adulterer, murderer and liar … but he repented and that made him a man after God’s own heart. Bob Grenier has not repented.

    I Timothy 5 …. just obey’in Scripture.

  70. Kyle Bryant said,

    “I would take a hint cuz they arent gonna wake up and change there mind.”

    You may not know just how many have changed their minds due to reading this issue here and asking questions at their CC’s. I know of plenty. Many of us want this site to remain open because of how many people it has helped.

  71. Kyle, a year ago, maybe even months ago I would have blasted your comment.

    Today, I’ll just say God bless you bro. There’s much in your statement that I could disagree with and dissect, and I’d probably be right….but, today I’ll just say thanks for the concern enough to read a bit here and to express your opinion.

    I agree with Grateful above that the site has helped a bunch of people (even when my style has been brash and when I’ve expressed myself in a not-so-nice manner) and the info has warned many (I get the emails and specifics all the time…and I’m grateful (not to steal that from my friend :smile: ) for that.

  72. Kyle – I think maybe you need a lesson in love and grace. A part of love is confessing when we do something wrong and being accountable for our actions and asking for forgiveness so there is reconciliation. Of couse we are all sinners every day – just being a human being puts us in that category. Love means we admit to what we have done wrong on a daily basis, not just to God, but to our fellow human beings, and ask for forgiveness and receive grace. That is the way of love and grace (and true humility). To keep it real – alot of people really apprecitate this web site. Let God’s love be

  73. Alex

    “I will exhaust every last opportunity. This isn’t a sprint…it’s a marathon.

    Good for you, Alex. This too is my heart’s desire and purpose in my own situation.

    It is, Alex — a road that is far less traveled, and you, my friend are one among the saints that have chosen to do so. It may not be easy, nor expedient, nor what most would do who are also Christians, but it is the way of the Lord. Even though other alternatives may also be within God’s permissive will, I commend you for seeking His perfect will and exhausting every avenue towards rectifying this within the church as we know it.

    It is a road of great suffering, pain, anguish, and perseverance. It is the way of the Cross that Jesus speaks about. With all my heart, I pray for this battle for the souls of all would be won at the feet of our blessed Lord and Redeemer. I pray that eyes would be opened and hearts would be broken to enable a repentance to come about. I pray that your sufferings as well as, the suffering of so many others, including my own would reverberate throughout CC, a revival that would no longer quench the working of the Holy Spirit and what He wanted His church to be rather than what it has become. It is the consequence of the failure of the leadership to bring these offenders, being individuals , groups in leadership roles or in the much larger body of christ to an account. It is the sin that enables this to continue and to be ignored that has brought these consequences upon its victims to this point to cry out for biblical justice, repentance, and reconciliation.

    So keeping marching to what God is guiding you to do. You know His Word, Alex and no one can tell you what you know to be the truth. No matter how clever he or she thinks they are in their attempt to cover it up.

  74. I stumbeled on thi

    Your websjte reads like a gossip collum.

  75. I loved as much as you’ll receive carried out right here. The sketch is tasteful, your authored subject matter stylish. nonetheless, you command get got an edginess over that you wish be delivering the following. unwell unquestionably come more formerly again as exactly the same nearly very often inside case you shield this hike.

  76. Anyone care to comment on Broderson’s latest blog on Mental Health?

    I hope someone will demolish Broderson position.

    Pastor Brian Broderson of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, California posted a blog titled, “Christ, the Church, and the Mentally Ill.” See http://www.calvarychapel.com/blog/christ-the-church-and-the-mentally-ill.

    Kindest regards in Christ,
    James Sundquist

  77. Sorry, I thought his article was right on regarding mental illnesses and the use of medication. I think he is correct in saying that oftentimes either a person will not take medication due to the stigma that some might place upon this, as well as, also the overuse of medication for those who use medication but not what it was intended.

    I also believe that there are some mental health issues that are better treated by psychotherapeutic methods, using short term medication, rather than a lifetime of meds. Many people who use these types of meds are also using alcohol and other street drugs, as they are cheaper. A lot of people don’t have insurance, nor are they qualified for state funded health care. This convolutes the mental health issues. Other will use the drugs just for the effects of them, not ever having learned to deal with life without using drugs-legal or illegal. An example of this would be Vicodam or hydrocodone which is used for pain, but for a short period of time. By overuse and abuse, one can become addicted, but then again the person may also have used alcohol in the past as well. By using pain meds, they can hide the fact that they are an addict, as they now don’t drink and after all, the pain medication has been prescribed. Problem is, the affect upon the brain from using this is such that it causes a person to be quite unable to filter or control their emotions leaving them quite volatile and aggressive at times.

    But for those who are truely mentally ill with conditions that warrants a stabilization of brain chemistry for what is medically necessary in order to functional at their highest level, this along with social support and continuing or as-needed therapy, and prayer/God’s assurance, they can thrive and grow in God’s word and be a blessing as well to others.

  78. Well, no wonder Brian Brodersen is not the man to provide accountability for child abuse in Calvary Chapel, are now several Smith family members who allege he physically abused his kids.

    It all makes a lot more sense now of why Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel were very hesitant to deal with the Bob Grenier situation, besides the lawsuit Chuck was in with regards to the Iglesias molestations at the time.

  79. My Sister left a church that had a wonderful Awanas program, changed to an emerging church, changed the kids program to the “star children” the elder board lied when asked if they were going to be an emergent church. I told her to try CC, and now this scandal, now they just study the bible at home and have no church. This is where the churches are going in this 21st century! These churches are making people fall away and will be left accountable!
    So sad!!

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