Mar 302015

In reference to the broken/sinful condition of humanity:

“Inordinate guilt feelings is pathological…and no guilt feelings is even more pathological”

-Tim Keller

Like · Comment · 
  • 4 people like this.
  • Alex Joye There is no need for guilt when you create your own narrative and justify your bad actions as “protecting the MINISTRY of the Lord!”
    1 hr · Like
  • Bryan Stupar Alex, thats exactly Keller’s point. He went on to say that when our narrative contains no authority higher than ourselves (God, god/goddess, etc), then we write the rules, omitting the guilt rendering it superfluous.
    55 mins · Unlike · 1
  • Bryan Stupar In other words, much of modern western culture.
    55 mins · Like · 1
  • Alex Joye Unfortunately, the church writes its own rules as well…and creates a hierarchy of ‘sins’ that it makes peace with…while taboo’ing other sins. For instance, Gluttony, Pride, Lying, Divorce…not a big deal, very well tolerated…whereas Homosexuality is a major taboo.
  • Lisa Silveira Good word!
  • Alex Joye I can see no greater sin than Pride and creating a Cult-of-Personalities of church leaders…yet that dynamic is actually encouraged and promoted by the church…whereas other taboo sins raise the ire of those same church-goers. Very troubling.
    50 mins · Edited · Like
  • Alex Joye The church (evangelical) feels no guilt for the sins of making mega-rich mega-stars and building altars to its celebrity leaders and showering them with money and adoration…while largely ignoring those Jesus said we are to spend our time and attention helping (including our own families). The followers are probably more responsible than the leaders they raise up and put on the pedestals. Yet, no guilt…none at all.
  • Alex Joye I doubt any will feel any guilt over this, but I personally refuse to support “ministries” that are pretty much rich/wealthy cult-of-personalities that create their own narrative and create their own morality…while doing the opposite of what I read about Jesus in the Gospels.
  • Alex Joye Unfortunately, the “church” is as much responsible for the “modern western culture” as anything else…the church is a part of that culture and has helped shape that culture both by what it promotes as well as by the hypocrisy it demonstrates to those outside the church. The church can be very instructive by what it says, what it does, what it ignores, what it tolerates, what it rails against. The church lost its “moral authority” a long time ago.
  • Bryan Stupar The reality is we all struggle to submit our wills to God. 

    We all have blind spots where we make our own rules…and when we do you can be certain that suffering isn’t to far behind.
  • Alex Joye “The reality is we all struggle to submit our wills to God. ” Yes, and what is that? I don’t believe “god’s will” is based on the authority of a particular church sect and what its gurus tell you is “god’s will”…as those leaders have no moral authority as exampled by their own immorality and their own injustice.
  • Alex Joye For example, the Calvary Chapel sect says it has no authority with regards to moral matters within its own Group…yet claims it has the moral authority to speak against those outside their church like the evil homosexuals etc.
  • Alex Joye 1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
  • Alex Joye “and when we do you can be certain that suffering isn’t to far behind.” Those who create their own narrative will simply spin this as “God promises tough times and persecution for his holy righteous followers!”
  • Alex Joye And, of course, those tough times or consequences to bad actions will simply be spun as “it’s an attack from the devil! Woe is me!” Again, it’s largely a bunch of b.s. Bryan and you’ve seen it first hand in your own church sect among your leaders.
  • Alex Joye A part of the church has lost its moral authority and for good reason. There are still lots of good things that churches do and some church sects have a much better record than others…but the decline in evangelicalism is largely a direct result of the church’s own doing. Sowing and Reaping principal in action.
  • Alex Joye To be crystal clear, none of this is directed to you personally, Bryan. I think you are sincere and doing the best you can while being affiliated with a bad organization.
  • Alex Joye
 Posted by at 9:45 am
Mar 212015


Proverbs 11:16 “A gracious woman retains honor, But ruthless men retain riches.”

Proverbs 11:17 “The merciful man does good for his own soul, But he who is cruel troubles his own flesh.”

2. Ruthless men retain riches.

Proverbs 11:16 “A gracious woman retains honor, But ruthless men retain riches.”

Moving on now to a certain type of man.
He is called ruthless.
Or violent.
The word comes from a word meaning to dread, fear oppress, break to terrify.
And it came to mean terrible, or terrible one, a strong, mighty terror-striking man.
Unfortunately for the world there are these types of men in it.
These types of men, these violent men get rich.

4. But he who is cruel troubles his own flesh.

Proverbs 11:17 “The merciful man does good for his own soul, But he who is cruel troubles his own flesh.”

On the other hand, we are told about another type of man.
The cruel man.
The word cruel comes from a word meaning fierce. Apparently meaning to act harshly.
This type of man is contrasted with the man who is merciful.
And here is what happens to him.
He will trouble his own flesh.
Or he will destroy himself.
His cruel heart will bring about the destruction of his own flesh.
This could even extend to his wife, and his children, who are his own flesh.
His cruel heart can destroy many.

Some Questions and Applications:

1. We see these two types of people everyday, don’t we?

2. We see gracious or merciful women.

3. We see ruthless or violent men.

4. And we see merciful men, and sad to say cruel men.

5. What’s on the outside comes from what is on the inside.

6. The inner heart determines what the outer life will be like.

7. Isn’t it great to know we know the changer of hearts.

8. He is the one who can give a man or a woman a new heart, a heart like His own.

Link to Pastor Bob’s full devotional here:

Amen, Bob. Now go look in the mirror and say this whole devotional to yourself and confess and repent and seek to make amends to all those you have been cruel and unmerciful to over your many years as a tyrant, bully and abuser at your Calvary Chapel franchise. He also states that “these types of men, these violent men get rich”…well, Bob has been living high on the Jesus Money for a long time…$750,000 (reportedly) from a separate non-profit called Reaching Youth (that was supposed to help kids) ended up in Bob’s General Fund…and he uses that General Fund (according to many sources) like it is his own personal piggy-bank.

This is an important lesson for the Church and for pastors…your sin will find you out. Don’t abuse God’s children.

 Posted by at 12:31 pm
Mar 202015

Following is an excerpt of a letter/testimony of a recent bookkeeper of Calvary Chapel Visalia. It was given to me to present to Chuck Smith (then living) in our attempts to deal with the Bob Grenier and Calvary Chapel Visalia situation inside the Calvary Chapel System.

The letter is also included in the evidence attachments in our defense of Bob Grenier’s lawsuit against me.

I am being sued for defamation and I am innocent. I told the truth as I know it and believe it…truths communicated to me by credible sources who are in a position to know these issues…and corroborated by other credible sources.

“Dear Pastor Chuck Smith:

Before I begin with my testimony regarding what I have personally seen, heard, and experienced in regards to Bob Grenier, I would like to give a little background about my family and myself. In January of 2007, we attended our first mission’s conference at Murrieta Hot Springs since our home church (Calvary Chapel San Luis Obispo) encouraged us to go since we had expressed a desire to serve as missionaries to the country of Ukraine. It was there at the conference that God changed our lives forever. We heard George Markey speak and were eager to learn from him, so we hung on his ever word; knowing that he was the pioneer of sorts to go out to Ukraine with his whole family and leave everything in order to serve the Lord in that country and to see the people there come to know Jesus. He planted the first Calvary Chapel in Ukraine. Upon speaking with George after the conference, he encouraged us to go where the Lord was calling us to go. Soon after, we met Phil Metzger who encouraged us to come for their missions training program in order to prepare for a life as missionaries in Ukraine. The next month, we were able to leave everything that we knew here to attend the 1 to 2 semesters Missions Training Program with the intention upon going to serve in Ukraine as missionaries. God brought our dreams to pass and we served faithfully in Ukraine for almost 3 years. We returned back to stay here in California in March 2010 due to my health problems and also to care for my husband’s aging parents.

I worked for Calvary Chapel Visalia as their bookkeeper from the end of July 2010 until August 2011. Upon my taking this position as bookkeeper, the previous administrator, Kevin Mizner, was well aware (as was Pastor Bob) of my health problems and my need to be evaluated and treated.  During my time there, I was aware that Pastor Bob and Gayle were having problems with all but one of their sons and that accusations had been made against them. At the time, we decided it best that we let them handle what we thought to be their own family issues and would give them the benefit of the doubt that they were indeed telling the truth in regards to what had happened. I had read some of the things that written on the blog and couldn’t believe that my Pastor and his wife would be guilty of such things. We still chose to stand by them and believe them, as we had no reason not to.

During my time as a bookkeeper I had a strong conviction that my job was given to me by the Lord and I took that responsibility very seriously. The Lord’s money is something that should be taken seriously because people give these tithes and are giving them unto the Lord. That being said, I believe God’s money should also be handled correctly and wisely.

There are several things that I found to be an inappropriate/illegal use of funds during my time there. Whether this is right or wrong in the eyes of the law, I never found it appropriate, ethical, or biblically correct for our Pastor to charge every penny of his fuel to the church credit card.  I realize that the church card is under his name personally, but he had made the choice at some point before me to utilize this card strictly for church expenses.  But, there were many times that he would take his youngest son, Robert Jr., to U2 concerts (this is just one example), and their family would take trips together that were not ministry, all of which was paid for on the church credit card. Pastor Bob has always proudly and regularly boasted from the pulpit that he was in debt to no one and was proud that the Lord has allowed him to be debt free. Pastor Bob allowed the church to pay for all of his fuel costs whether they were ministry related or not. He also never once produced a receipt for anything that he ever charged on the card, even though the church’s accountant had told me that they could be audited for not doing so.

I did not appreciate the way he would treat me when he asked me to do certain things that were contrary to normal accounting procedures, as the church’s accountant had instructed me. For instance, he had purchased something on the church card in which he quickly produced a check as reimbursement for the credit card charge. He had then asked that I apply the payment immediately to the church card. When I tried to explain that I could deposit his check, but that the payment for the charge in question should not be paid until the statement appeared, he became very angry with me and would not let me speak as I was trying to explain to him the simple accounting practice of a debit and a credit. He kept shushing me and would not allow me to explain. I tried to tell him that I could deposit his reimbursement into the account that I would expense it from, but he would not let me explain anything. I felt very frustrated and confused when I came in to work the next day and had an email notice from the Visa card telling me that a payment to that account had posted for said amount of his reimbursement check. He had asked DiDi, his daughter–in-law, to pay the credit card for that amount behind my back. At that point, being that it was at the end of my two-week notice, I gave up trying to help and/or explain just how to handle credit card statements and payments.

Also, on a consistent basis, Pastor Bob would charge high dollar charges ($1000.00 or more) to the church card and claim each time that it was a mistake on his or Gayle’s part and the money would be paid back right away. It wasn’t until he and his younger son, Robert Jr., took a personal trip to Italy with the church’s Visa flight miles, that I realized that these charges were probably not an accident at all.  I just didn’t think that was an appropriate way to disperse flight miles, especially when everyone in the office is under the impression that those flight miles were to be used to fund missionary trips.

Another mishandling of money (actually, it is illegal) is that the salary for Susie Dowds is being paid to Susie, with the understanding that the money being paid to her, is to cover the salary for both her and her husband, Greg Dowds.  The reason for this is to prevent his payments for some sort of disability from being cut. I discovered this as I was inputting the church budget into Quick Books because on the budget for Susie’s salary, it includes her husbands name as well. The money that she is paid is extremely disproportionate to the amount of work she does compared to other employees. 

The church has also been committing insurance fraud for quite sometime now in regards to Pastor Bob’s daughter in law being insured, along with his son and grand daughter. Even though DiDi is salaried as the Children’s Director, she is listed in the payroll system as part time.  On average, she works no more than 16 hours a week. And that is on a busy week when there is an event. She receives full benefits working very part time. Also, she took over as the bookkeeper. This is not wise as it leaves the door open for financial mishandling of God’s money. “

 Posted by at 2:29 pm
Mar 132015

From Bob Grenier’s “Daily Devotional” today: Proverbs 11:8 “The righteous is delivered from trouble, And it comes to the wicked instead.”

The following is a verbatim direct personal testimony of a long-time Calvary Chapel Visalia mother and volunteer.

She alleges Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia told her not to report Child Molestation to the District Attorney. This was one of many testimonies of Calvary Chapel Visalia church-goers that I presented directly to Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (with Chuck’s attorney Janet Carter and Pastor Dave Rolph and my brother Geoff at the meeting). This was part of an effort to deal with Bob’s abuses and corruption within the church after attempts at the local Calvary Chapel Visalia were shut down by Bob and his Elders and Board.

This testimony is shocking and sobering. I don’t understand why nothing has been done about this and many other things connected to Bob Grenier.

“In 2000 my daughter came forward with her story of years of sexual abuse by my husband.  The shock and sorrow that followed was not out of the ordinary, but the behavior of the Senior pastor of CC Visalia, Bob Grenier, was.  I went to him for help and it was as though I had done something wrong, NOT my husband.  

I was told that the important thing was to keep my marriage in tact, that it was wrong to report him to the District Attorney’s office and I could no longer teach sunday school or keep maintaining the grounds (as we had done for years).  As time went on the pastors made it uncomfortable and virtually impossible for myself and my family to keep attending CC (my son-in-law who kept trying to attend the longest was finally told point blank, not to come back).  We had been very involved, very connected to the church (attending for close to 20 years) even closely connected to Bob’s own family through our children’s friendships; but the change after my going against Bob’s wishes and reporting the child abuse to the authorities was so extreme we felt forced to leave.  

Could Bob’s strong negative reaction to the reporting of child abuse (even though as a pastor he is a mandated reporter) be explained by the sad fact that he also has sinned against his family in the same way and is living in denial??”

 Posted by at 9:42 pm
Mar 132015


Attached is the police report that I made to the Visalia Police Department back in February of 2010 (click red link above to view Police_Report pdf).

While the report intentionally (my opinion) omitted some of the worst abuses we reported…it did document enough of the abuse that a source tells me that the District Attorney would have “arrested Bob personally” (according to the source) had the Statute of Limitations not expired.

I followed up my in-person testimony with emails to the detective because I was concerned about the presence of Sgt. McIntosh as a key figure in the process. Sgt. McIntosh’s mother, Judy McIntosh, is a longtime close personal friend, confidante and part of Bob Grenier’s inner-circle at Calvary Chapel Visalia. Judy is a good woman, but good people can be fooled by a good liar like Bob.

The report left out some of these abuses that were reported and corroborated by my brothers: Bob imprisoning Geoff in a small closet, Bob kicking Geoff, Bob hitting me with paddles causing open wounds where my underwear would stick to my buttocks from the oozing/bleeding.

The other glaring and BIG omission: The police report tries to frame an incident of abuse where Bob punched Geoff in the face and kicked him out of the home as “Geoff stood up to Bob”…and they did not even mention that Bob had beaten Geoff and then punched him in the face. Glen Cardaronella, a 20-plus-year Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Member states in his sworn Declaration that is already in the Court’s evidence that Bob confessed to the Board that he punched Geoff in the face during that incident.

Bob’s cop buddies (Bob has some close ties in the Visalia Law Enforcement Community…but many see through his lies) came to bat for him, in my opinion, and did their best to mute the report and sanitize it to a degree…even listing the crime as “corporal punishment” which is not true. Hitting kids with objects causing them injuries, imprisoning kids in closets, punching them in the face, kicking them….is not “corporal punishment”…it is Felony Child Abuse according to the statutes I read of the California Penal Code.

What the police report does include is an aunt and uncle who witnessed Bob abusing Geoff and it also includes Geoff’s recounting of being sent to the principle’s office in high school after a coach noticed injuries on him when Geoff was showering.

We will be covering the many allegations of abuse and corruption against Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia in much detail and specificity leading up to a jury trial. We will hold some things back, but Bob is already aware of a large chunk of these things as we tried to get resolution to these matters privately at the local level with Calvary Chapel Visalia’s Board…but were rebuffed…and we took it to the top of Calvary Chapel with Chuck Smith in Costa Mesa…and the door was slammed in our face there as well. Bob has had plenty of opportunities to handle what he lies and calls “private family matters”…Bob has stone-walled and denied every attempt at handling the abuses through private channels…and now wants to play the victim once it went public because there is no other recourse.

This is the Calvary Chapel Model of how they teach and deal with major grievances. They give the impression there is some sort of Church mechanism that holds pastors accountable and that there is some venue for beefs…you then send all (or most) of your beefs and evidence to them…they then stone-wall you and pass that evidence on to the pastor and offender so he can prepare a defense against you later. Very evil and sinister of Calvary Chapel.

Then when your only avenue is to go public….they sue you for defamation and claim it’s all a “private family matter”.

Not this time Bob and Calvary Chapel. You aren’t going to get away with it.

 Posted by at 12:02 pm