Jun 242014

Every Group…whether it’s a denomination, a non-denomination, a local church or a blog…requires rules. This has been hard for me to accept as a Libertarian and non-conformist leaning person. The pragmatist in me realizes, however, that I must deal with things as they are…not as they should be.

I’ve learned a ton at the popular PhoenixPreacher.com blog. One of the biggest lessons that has been cemented regarding “things as they are”…is that the leader and Core Group there are really no different than the leaders and churches and denominations etc. that they rail against and critique ad nauseam. I guess, to a degree, I am not much different either.

We all have our biases, our Sacred Cows, our “orthodox opinions”…and we all have our villains and our doctrinal/philosophical peccadilloes and our hierarchy of sins and our hierarchy of virtues…we all play favorites and we all have gurus and personalities we hold in high regard while vilifying others.

Conduct is important…when you have an opposing and dissenting opinion. Conduct is less important when it is an opinion expressed that you agree with. This is demonstrated in spades at PhxP. “Proper conduct!” is used as a cudgel to force conformity…yet the same standard of conduct is not required of those with an opinion that aligns with the Group and the leader…much like we see in Calvary Chapels and other churches the Phoenix Preacher criticizes and calls to task.

In my experience there, the Group Dynamic is very visible…very much quantifiable…the hierarchy of personalities is easy to define. Spend as little as a few weeks there and it will become apparent to anyone who has even a basic understanding of Group Dynamics and control techniques etc.

I accepted the fact that “rules” of conduct are necessary and important as defined by a particular Group’s consensus. It’s simply how we create order and make sense of the world as humans. It isn’t “wrong” for a Group…whether it be Calvary Chapel or the PhxP to have rules…even if a dissenter disagrees with those rules. The Group has the right to its rules…and the leader or pastor is responsible to the Group in a symbiotic relationship…despite the “leave the 99 to save the one” etc.

The problem is when those rules are not applied equally to all within that Group…and it takes on an especially negative spiritual implication when an “outsider” or what the bible calls a “foreigner” or “alien” is actually targeted and treated with more scrutiny and less grace than someone who is in the fold as part of the Group. It is even more sinister and wrong when leaders of the Group are treated with kit gloves and the rules are not applied to them…we’ve seen this double-standard in Calvary Chapel…and I’m sad to report I have experienced it at the PhoenixPreacher.com blog led by Michael Newnham.

One major bible narrative is how you treat the outsider, the foreigner etc…and the Pharisees were often chastised by Jesus for not applying their heavy burdens and laws and rules to themselves.

The issue goes further off the rails when the rules of conduct are followed…and then “opinions” become “offense” and actionable for punishment. This is ironically what the church fears with regards to its opinions that are contrary to the consensus of the United States culture with regards to homosexuality etc.

Often in “church” and certainly within the PhoenixPreacher.com blog…contrary opinions become an actionable “offense” akin to inappropriate or offensive conduct. This is what happened to me. I tested the boundaries of “proper conduct” and came in line and in agreement. The goal posts moved and the issue became my “opinions” as offense…even expressed in a civil and polite manner without hyperbole and without insult etc. This is the nature of all the things the PhoenixPreacher.com Group has railed against with regards to other churches and leaders (with regards to what they call “spiritual abuse”…I am not considering clear cut sexual or physical abuse or financial corruption as such…those issues are more cut and dry).

Once a difference of opinion, expressed responsibly and diplomatically, becomes an “offense” that is actionable…you are now off the rails and no different than any of the churches and leaders you have built a career and reputation critiquing.

That is the PhoenixPreacher.com and I can no longer endorse it or condone it or be a part of it. There is a bad dynamic there and the Group and leadership is blind to it…similar to the Groups and leaders I’ve watched them call out for years.

Doctrines, philosophical opinions, theology…it’s all extremely subjective…and to mark a particular person’s opinion as “not Christian” or worshipping a “false god” or calling them an “idol worshipper” etc. is as much spiritual abuse as any spiritual abuse that Group has judged in other churches….or as much acting like an “ODM” as they call it as any ODM they’ve called to task. Yet, that behavior is the same behavior of the blog there.

I have liberal theological opinions and most of the arguments I dissect that appeal to “the bible” have major consistency problems. I don’t believe this invalidates the bible as containing truth and I don’t believe it invalidates “God” or Jesus…but it certainly invalidates a particular man’s interpretation as absolute and concrete and “thus sayeth the Lord!” and chiseled in stone. If it was so absolute and non-subjective, you would not have 9,000 to 30,000 different denominations and main lines and all the many differences of opinion under the umbrellas of Christianity*…you’d have one church, one doctrine, one theology. It isn’t math, it isn’t physics. It’s all very subjective.

As such, I am going to lay down some rules at this blog to avoid the mistakes I see at blogs like the PhoenixPreacher: 

1. We will tolerate differences of opinion expressed responsibly.

2. We will apply the rules of moderation and banning equally to all.

3. We will refrain from name-calling, even Calvary Chapel…I will have to change in this regard.

4. Conduct is important, I concede that point…but difference of opinion expressed responsibly and how those individuals are dealt with is something that both the church and the PhoenixPreacher blog needs to change. We will do our best to not repeat those mistakes and poor treatment.

5. I will moderate comments that I view as stirring up conflict within the Group, unless it is merely a difference of opinion expressed responsibly.

6. The focus of this blog is on Church Abuse and Church Corruption…but we will discuss other philosophical opinions as they are often closely related to church issues. Be kind, be tolerant, don’t be the thing you say you hate.

I am committed to being better than how I was raised in Calvary Chapel…and I’m committed to being better than the five or so years I wasted on the PhoenixPreacher blog. That starts today.

UPDATE: Michael emailed me and did bring up a pertinent fact that was not included until now, I did post a lot of comments which was one source of irritation to his Group and I agree the volume was excessive sometimes…however, many times it was simply due to the fact I was often ganged up on and was responding to many personalities there and their many challenges to my opinions…and then would often get accused of dodging their questions or challenges if I didn’t respond…then when I responded thoroughly I would often be accused of “dominating” the thread…so, often times I was damned if I did, damned if I didn’t. Oh well, I am now a “blessed subtraction” as they often criticize guys like Mark Driscoll of promoting.

Jun 082014
Group dynamics, in all groups, require conformity most of all.

Group dynamics, in all groups, require conformity most of all.

Spiritual abuse or proper church discipline? Obedience and submission or rebellious spirit and trouble-making?

One thing many have in common on church abuse blogs is that most have been at odds with a particular church group and church leader/pastor…and were summarily shown the door, shunned, banned, moderated from participating with the church they once called home. This can be devastating for most. You lose friendships, family relationships, you’re called names like “troublemaker” and “instrument of the devil” and “not submissive” and “rebellious” etc. It hurts.

Pastors/leaders often feel justified in the particular banning as a proper form of church discipline….they are just “protecting the rest of the flock” as they say. Behind the scenes, often, it is the majority rules of that particular flock that is pressuring the particular pastor/leadership to deal with the dissenter or “troublemaker” and to deal with this individual or family once and for all.

From the perspective of the person being dealt with in such a manner…they feel they have done nothing wrong. They are simply trying to hold the particular pastor and/or leadership and/or church accountable for some perceived (real or imagined) wrong or injustice or inconsistency with a bible doctrine that needs to be remedied. The person takes their beef up the chain of command and when the pastor and/or leadership disagree…some sort of final judgment is finally made…often resulting in the particular person either “submitting” to the rules of the particular church group or facing expulsion.

“Spiritual abuse!”….or “church discipline for the good of the rest of the flock!”…depends (in general) on which side of that particular line you’re on.

Of course, there are many examples of clear wrongdoing by pastors and church leadership and there are clear cut structural wrongs within many church organizations. Let me be very clear that I am not questioning the reality and truth of “spiritual abuse” nor am I questioning the reality and truth of legitimate church abuses that need to be confronted and reformed. There are many many legit examples that are not mere “differences of opinion”….many of the stories and personalities who comment on this blog have very serious examples where churches and pastors crossed major lines. I’m referring to issues that are lower down the ladder….issues that also become “spiritual abuse” but from the other perspective are viewed as “protecting the rest of the flock” from a “troublemaker”. The line can sometimes be a fine line…sometimes it’s clear cut.

This issue is one that has peaked my curiosity for some time. I’ve observed the Group Dynamics of blog communities very much resembles that of a local church group.

Anytime a group of humans forms….there is a general dynamic that always occurs…this “Group Dynamic” is the sociological science that observes how those dynamics occur and how they generally play out in a group setting. It’s a fascinating area of study…one of my areas of interest since I was introduced to that science as part of my collegiate studies.

Blogs, like churches, take on a hierarchy over time. You have a central leader….the blog host…who becomes akin to the pastor. You have a “core group” of blog voices that participate regularly and contribute to the overall success of the blog as measured in comments and even sometimes in donating money or support…akin to regular church members who give regularly, volunteer to serve and serve as deacons or elders. The regulars in both groups support the pastor or blog host. They protect the pastor or blog host when outsiders come into the group and start “trouble”. The “good” church members and good core bloggers are generally very agreeable to the pastor’s rules and the blog host’s rules and they assume their particular roles within the group in protecting the group and the group leader…the group leader then protects the core group. It’s a very symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship.

Then comes the outsider…the “troublemaker”…who doesn’t conform to the group’s written and unwritten rules. The person may have a particular beef with the pastor, a beef with how the church or blog does things, a beef with a key member of the core group, a beef with a particular doctrinal or philosophical position….and then there’s conflict and trouble.

The core group generally rallies around the particular irritant like white blood cells around an invading virus. Conflict ensues. The rules are asserted and then broken again…and the core group appeals to the pastor or blog host to deal with the “troublemaker” once and for all….usually after some sort of disciplinary efforts of confrontation, moderation, sanctions etc. When all else fails, the core group calls for the “troublemaker’s” head in the equivalent of the group dynamic’s death penalty: Banishment from the group!

The leader exacts the penalty. The “troublemaker” is eliminated. All is well again within the group.

I’ve been the “troublemaker”, I’ve been a member of the core group, I’ve been the leader. I’ve experienced legitimate church abuse, seen the real thing many times. I’ve been the legitimate target of group discipline when I didn’t follow the rules.  I’ve seen real “spiritual abuse” and fake. The distinctions can become blurred. Where is the line?

In the battles with Calvary Chapel, there are some clear-cut examples and many that may just be typical group dynamics in play where a person just doesn’t conform to the group consensus and bucks the norms there.

In blogging in many online communities…Christian, Atheist, Political, Economic, etc…I’ve noticed clear group dynamics in play…very consistent patterns, rules, core groups, leaders…and every group responds to “troublemakers” in a similar way. Is the “troublemaker” always the victim of “abuse” when they are shunned and banned even though they think they were right to buck the norm of a particular group and challenge its rules, its sacred cows and its leaders etc? Probably not.

Sometimes conformity is a requirement to be part of a group. Those who are non-conformists often have a difficult time remaining part of a group…whether it is a church, a blog, a club…whether it be Christian, Atheist, Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian, you name it. My observations from testing a broad range of groups is that they all tick the same, essentially. Conformity is the primary aspect of being a good and healthy group member.

My practical advice if you want to remain part of any group is this: Learn what the written and unwritten rules are. Learn who the core group members are and don’t challenge their authority within the group. Know the leader’s sacred cows and pet peeves and steer clear of pushing those buttons. Conform quickly and demonstrate submission to the core group members and leader….and slowly build trust with them. Over time, if you play by their rules…and if you pay your dues…you can become part of the core group…and then you can incrementally challenge some things in very small steps and progressions…and affect some small changes over time without arousing suspicion and getting kicked out.

Personally, I am largely a non-conformist and I have a rebellious streak…more due to my abusive high-control upbringing, out of principle and due to my ability to see beyond the surface that blinds most folks with regards to systems of Control. Most have no clue as to the dynamics in play and are rather confused when they find themselves at odds with another professing group of Christians (or insert your particular group here). Much of the time it is not anything spiritual at all….it is simply group dynamics. The folks violated the dynamic and most don’t even know what happened until they’re kicked out. The easiest explanation, often, is “abuse!”…when in fact, it’s simple non-conformity and part of what you’ll face in any group if you don’t notice the rules and don’t get in line.

I know when I’m bucking the group and when I’m going along. I’m rarely surprised. You have to make the personal choice: Do you want to fit in and be a part of this group?

Some don’t want to fit into a group…there are legitimate troublemakers…the internet era has identified them as “trolls”….these are serial non-conformists who like conflict and controversy and exhibit the “dark tetrad” from a psychological perspective…they are akin to sadists who enjoy hurting people through their words. You see these sorts of folks in online forums as well as in physical church groups. There are also folks who like to test their disagreement within a group they disagree with…you see this with atheists participating in Christian forums…and Christians participating in atheist forums….liberals and conservatives in political forums, etc. Sometimes there are folks who are just socially unaware and can’t gauge the dynamics and step in it seemingly every time they try to become part of a group. I once thought there was some sort of “right” and righteous Christian ideal in play…an ideal that trumped the humanness….an ideal that grace was to be given to the worst of the offenders.

There is no pure ideal in play. There is no truly free grace, not within any group. Conformity is the price one must pay.

I’ve conducted some social experiments to see if there was some sort of truly free grace ideal that truly existed…if there truly was some sort of spiritual ideal that trumped human group dynamics. I can confidently report to you: No, there is no spiritual ideal that trumps human group dynamics. There is no Christian “grace” for troublemakers who don’t go with the flow. I even tried to hold a principled line on this blog…wow, I was proven wrong in spades. Matthew Perri shows up and disrupts the group here…everyone reacts adversely to Matthew’s behavior and calls for his moderation or banning….that this isn’t a safe place, I’m not doing my job as a leader to protect the fold, I’m not being just, etc.

Groups like their status quo, they like their rules, they like conformity. Groups want a King to enforce it. There is no spiritual ideal that turns the other cheek and administers blind grace even to the most irritating non-conformist. There are rules. There is a hierarchy. There are sacred cows. There is a symbiotic relationship between the core group and the leader. There is a control structure that expects conformity. Get on board, or get out.

The consensus Christian gospel message is the same: Conform…or go to hell. Grace is earned through conformity. Conformity is required to be in the group.

That’s the truth as I currently know it with regards to this issue after much testing and hashing out.

 Posted by at 2:14 pm
May 282014

A recent lawsuit alleging churches, including Calvary Chapel Central Oahu in Hawaii, bilked the State out of rent for use of public facilities is moving forward through the courts despite an attempt by church lawyers to get the suit dismissed.

Attorneys for the plaintiffs are hailing the recent decision by First Circuit Judge Virginia Crandall as a victory and promise to start issuing subpoenas to interview people for the case next week, according to an article in the Hawaii Star-Advertiser yesterday.

“Most of the claims survives,” plaintiff’s attorney James Bickerton said in the article.

Bickerton said the two churches cost public schools about $1 million in unpaid rent, according to the same report.

Read the full article here: http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20140527_Lawsuit_over_church_use_of_public_schools_continues.html

 Posted by at 10:04 pm
May 072014

Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale has a new senior pastor, according to Local News 10 of Miami, Florida.

doug sauder

Doug Sauder takes over as senior pastor of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale replacing founder Bob Coy.

Doug Sauder is tabbed to replace long-time CCFTL founder and pastor Bob Coy who was forced to resign over a pornography and adultery scandal that rocked the Calvary Chapel world recently.

According to the CCFTL website, Sauder is a home-grown guy and has been on staff as an assistant pastor since 2004.

Full news story here:


Sauder’s Bio here:


CalvaryChapelAbuse.com Commentary and Opinion:

We’re glad to see that CCFTL finally came clean with the details of the Bob Coy forced resignation…transparency is the right way to handle matters. Coy was a highly public figure and the consequences of the sin must be highly public as well…or the story won’t go away.

We wish Doug Sauder and CCFTL the best. This is an opportunity for CCFTL to learn from past mistakes and forge a new future based on transparency, financial accountability, shared-power, pastoral moral accountability, openness and honesty.

I hope we don’t see Sauder grace these pages for something bad…may the next time we see CCFTL on CalvaryChapelAbuse.com may it be us reporting that they’re changing their ways and not falling too in love with a senior pastor who has too much control and too easily manipulates his Board.

 Posted by at 8:35 pm
Apr 232014
Chuck Smith Sr. has been made aware of much abuse and corruption by Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia...yet has ignored requests for help and to use his leadership to confront the abuse and corruption.

Chuck Smith’s greatest legacy: He was a good dad and grandpa who never hurt his kids.

I had a very long conversation yesterday with a person who intimately knew Chuck Smith. It was as close as I’ve been able to get to having a final talk with Chuck regarding our personal spat over the Bob Grenier situation and my blasting Chuck and Chuck’s return fire from the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa pulpit (as well as our internet radio spar).

There are many who viewed Chuck through very rose-colored glasses…and there are some, like me, who had a more jaded and negative view of the man. The truth tends to lie in the middle with regards to most people…and this conversation only affirmed that conclusion.

While the good is well-documented and well-publicized and well-touted by the 1500 plus affiliate Calvary Chapel Church System…the bad is documented on places like this blog. In the background are human beings with feelings. This was a rare occasion when two of those human beings…from the two different Camps…had a heart-to-heart discussion…and it was very helpful, at least for me.

My suspicions were proven likely correct…Chuck didn’t step in and do something directly with the Bob Grenier and Calvary Chapel Visalia situation…not because he didn’t believe us…he actually told my brother Geoff directly in the meeting at the Logos Building that he did…it was because Chuck was being sued in Idaho for the Iglesias molestations that happened through meeting kids at other Calvary Chapels…and the lawyers told Chuck to shut up and not take responsibility for any other Calvary Chapel situation and told him not to get directly involved in the Bob Grenier situation…even though he had done so in the past.

I was also reminded of what I’ve heard in the past many times from people very close to Chuck…he was a great dad and grandpa and he was loving, kind, gracious and never hurt his kids. Some have actually been critical of him for being too soft on Jeff, which ironically, I think was a strength of Chuck’s, not a weakness (while still recognizing that can present some problems in adult church/business situations).

Like all of us, Chuck Smith was a mix of good and bad…something I’ve stated before. However, I now see more of the good…because I got a glimpse at the good in someone he loved…someone who is a living example of the good in Chuck.

The person knows who they are. You are a good person. I’ve heard it from several others who know you…and I’ve now experienced it first hand. I blasted someone you cared about deeply and you showed me kindness and mercy and compassion…yet you were also honest with me. I forgive Chuck and I am sorry I hurt you in the process of dealing with my anger and frustration over those issues with Calvary Chapel. I can’t tell Chuck to his face, but I can tell you…I’m sorry. I could have been much more gracious. Thank you for doing what you did. It helped me and gives me some hope.

 Posted by at 7:37 am
Apr 202014
Brian Brodersen's daughter denies abuse allegations and says her dad is a gracious and loving guy.

Brian Brodersen’s daughter denies abuse allegations and says her dad is a gracious and loving guy.

CalvaryChapelAbuse.com published a story recently about allegations by multiple Smith family members (first posted publicly by Michael A. Smith on facebook) and a long-time friend of the Brodersen kids, that Brian Brodersen had hit his daughter in the head and made her ear bleed while the Brodersen’s lived in England.

Kristyn Brodersen states the story is false and she and her brother maintain a good relationship with their parents to this day. She says her dad is a very gracious and loving guy.

CalvaryChapelAbuse.com Commentary and Opinion:

I think the testimony of the kids trumps other testimony and decided to withdraw the original story. The fact the kids have a good relationship with their parents today and that the daughter nicely, but flatly, denies any abuse…trumps the allegations made by others in my opinion.

 Posted by at 1:23 am
Apr 182014

Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale finally comes clean with regard to Bob Coy’s “moral failure”.

bob coy tiger woods

Bob Coy pictured discussing the Tiger Woods affairs on youtube. Calvary Chapel finally came clean about Coy’s “moral failure” in a recent service.

In Wednesday night services, “pastor Chet” confirms what we reported over a week ago…Bob Coy was involved in multiple affairs with women and has an addiction to pornography.

The story first broke on this blog as a blog comment left by an anonymous poster claiming to have been a Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale employee who had knowledge of the affairs and the coming resignation.

The comment started CalvaryChapelAbuse.com asking questions…and the story was confirmed and then went viral being picked up by other blogs and then national media.

Here is a link to CCFTL’s Wednesday night service that finally comes clean with the whole truth: http://media.calvaryftl.org/player/?fn=D3102

CalvaryChapelAbuse.com Commentary and Opinion:

This is great opportunity for Calvary Chapel to come clean on many other issues of “moral failure”. I have a long list of other Calvary Chapel senior pastors and radio personalities who are guilty of “moral failure”, child abuse, corruption, lying, etc. that are similar and sometimes worse than Bob Coy’s known sins.

Calvary Chapel Association needs to recognize that their senior pastors are men, sinners…capable of doing wrong, capable of doing bad things at any time. Being “specially anointed” is a myth when it comes to men not being sinful men.

I call on the Calvary Chapel Association, once again, to implement System-wide reforms to the Calvary Chapel Affiliation Agreements to mandate Child Protections and Open/Transparent Finances to all Calvary Chapel franchises AND to have them include a “moral failure” by-law that gives the power to the CC Board and Elders to remove a pastor caught in major sin.

Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale is currently finding Accountability Jesus. I have reports from many CCFTL’ers who say the Board was essentially a puppet-board who were too cozy with Bob Coy. People who pushed back got fired. The sexual sins were known for two years or more according to multiple sources.

CCFTL is reportedly going through some big changes to address these big gaps in their Accountability plan. That is a very good thing and I commend them for learning from past mistakes.

May all of Calvary Chapel find Accountability Jesus. Your “specially anointed” pastor is no different than Bob Coy, or any of us for that matter.

 Posted by at 10:47 am
Apr 162014
Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale owes Bank of America $35 million.

Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale owes Bank of America $35 million.

The Bob Coy scandal for “moral failure”, which is Calvary Chapel speak for he got caught with a porn addiction and humping women who aren’t his wife according to sources inside and outside of CC, illustrates a major problem with the Pastor-centered mega-church model.

What happens when the rock star guru cult-of-personality demonstrates their non-transformation into Jesus and falls on their face?

I’ll tell you what happens…a lot of people stop attending the show and stop giving their money…and the church is forced to sell off a bunch of their assets to pay back the bank.

Skip the Hagee “Blood Moon!” nonsense, I’ve got a prophetic word….Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale best start hanging the “for sale” signs on big chunks of their Disneyland because Bank of America will get their $35 million back one way or another….and now that Smiling Bob is off the stage, it’s gonna be a lot harder to rake in all that Jesus money. Chet’s a good looking likable wholesome guy, but c’mon…he ain’t Smiling Bob. Smiling Bob had that naughty but nice quality about him, that Vegas allure, that “I’m a Vegas bad boy acting like a good boy telling jokes and quoting bible verses wink wink” thing going on. The women loved him (some a little too much, know what I’m sayin’), the men wanted to be him. There’s only one Smiling Bob at CCFTL and that dude is evangelical damaged goods (but at least it was other women and not dudes or he’d be toasty toast, no chance at a comeback).

Big shows require big overhead and bigger rock stars to keep them going.

It would not surprise me to see a Skip Heitzig try to toss his hat in the ring to try and step in and be Coy II. Skip’s got a history of jumping ship from Calvary Chapel Albuquerque and he was recently caught with Paul Smith trying to buy off the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa stage for a million bucks. What is it with Heitzig? He’s a rock star in Albuquerque but seems to hate the place and is always looking to upgrade. Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Heitzig make a play for CCFTL and CCFTL’s board will feel the heat of lower attendance and lower giving…so you never know…we could see the Skipster surf on over to that bigger stage.

One thing’s for sure, CCFTL is in big trouble. They can prattle on about how it’s “all about Jesus!” and how they tell everyone to look to Jesus as they continue to deny they are a Pastor-centered mega-church with an over-emphasis on a cult-of-personality like Bob Coy…but time will show that despite their denials…they are what they are…and they will be a fraction of the mega-church they are now in the coming months and years, unless they somehow resurrect Coy from the “moral failure” ash heap and put him back in the saddle.

 Posted by at 10:38 am
Apr 072014

Smiling Bob.

Comments are back on now that things have calmed down and traffic is more manageable….here is a link to the blog comment left on CalvaryChapelAbuse.com that started the firestorm: http://calvarychapelabuse.com/wordpress/pastor-bob-coy-of-calvary-chapel-fort-lauderdale-what-has-your-experience-been-with-this-servant-of-god/#comment-160563

If you have information concerning Bob Coy and Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale or another Calvary Chapel franchise and pastor: agrenier7 at gmail dot com.

 Posted by at 9:31 pm