Mar 282014
Calvary Chapel pastor Dave Watson feels the responsibility to lobby against Gay marriage and to pressure an outside organization...yet Calvary Chapel doesn't deal with an accusation one of its Association Calvary Chapel pastors molested his own son.

Calvary Chapel pastor Dave Watson feels the responsibility to lobby against Gay marriage and to pressure an outside organization…yet Calvary Chapel doesn’t deal with an accusation one of its Association Calvary Chapel pastors molested his own son.

Article from Staten Island Advance

By Maura Grunlund/Staten Island Advance 

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. —  A major Christian humanitarian relief organization has reversed its support of gay marriage that initially sent shock waves through the evangelical community on Staten Island and throughout the United States.

Pastor Dave Watson of Calvary Chapel in Mariners Harbor and Pastor Tim McIntyre of Oasis Christian Center in Midland Beach were among the many evangelicals who were dismayed when Director Richard Stearns and World Vision announced on Monday that it would employ Christians who are in same-sex marriages. Both pastors were relieved when World Vision saw gay marriage in a different light on Wednesday.

“This reversal is incredibly positive and speaks volumes to the Christian community at large about our values,” Pastor Watson said. “These values are grounded in all of the teaching of Christ, not just ones that are presently in vogue.”

World Vision, its board and Stearns “have genuinely sought forgiveness from the evangelical community for a mistake they made,” Pastor Watson said. He regards the pro-gay statement as a “lapse of judgment” and the reversal as sincere — rather than, as some critics contend, a reaction to a potential loss of donations from disgruntled evangelicals.

“Going forward, we should look for the fruits of change at World Vision,” Pastor Watson said. “In light of this admission and reversal, there should be an on-going transparency in decision making and consultation with its local church partners.”

“I am thankful that the World Vision board decided to reverse its decision and reaffirm their commitment to biblical principles and the belief that marriage is an institution created by God, between a man and a woman,” Pastor McIntyre said.

“In supporting any Christian organization, I believe it is imperative they make it a priority to proclaim the Christian gospel. World Vision’s earlier decision would have compromised and complicated their ability to do so.”

Stearns told Christianity Today on Wednesday that his organization had reversed its decision because of the backlash from evangelical leaders.

Link to full article here: Commentary and Opinion:

Calvary Chapel pastors tell you, “We teach the bible simply! The bible is the absolute truth! The bible is God’s word!”

1 Corinthians 5:12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.

I’ve been told by many Calvary Chapel pastors…including my friend Steve Wright of Calvary Chapel Lake Elsinore…that “it’s not my responsibility” to deal with the sins of other fellow Calvary Chapel pastor Franchise Associates accused by their sons of child abuse and in Paul Grenier’s case an accusation of molestation.

…yet it seems to be the “responsibility” of Calvary Chapel and Calvary Chapel pastors to speak out loudly against Transgender and Gay Marriage…which aren’t hurting anyone inside Calvary Chapel…and are issues largely outside of Calvary Chapel.

Calvary Chapel exerts a lot of time, energy, money, resources and pressure to right their perceived wrongs in our Culture…yet they spend about two seconds telling you why nothing is their responsibility inside their own Church Association and it’s none of their business.

That’s quite an interesting interpretation of what Paul the Apostle states in the bible…so-much-so it begs the question as to whether these CC guys really do believe the bible…because their actions and examples tell a story of a much different belief…the bible is not to be taken seriously as they consistently model. Calvary Chapel picks and chooses its Fundamentalism and Literalism. It’s a very dishonest approach. I’d rather they were honest and just say the bible really doesn’t matter…do whatever you want. Instead they do the worst thing possible…they tell you that you have to live a certain way according to the bible….and then they ignore the parts they don’t like and don’t live by. Very wrong. Embrace the whole thing…or don’t embrace it at all.

True belief is measured in what pastors and Church Organizations/Associations do…not what they say. As such, Calvary Chapel shows us that they are dishonest and that the bible is not to be taken as absolute…you can do whatever you want…despite what it says in some or all areas….just as they practice.

 Posted by at 10:24 am
Mar 272014
Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills is fighting the Transgender laws in California.

Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills is fighting the Transgender laws in California.

Article from Inland Valley Daily Bulletin

By Beau Yarbrough,

A group seeking to overturn California’s law allowing transgender students access to programs and facilities based on the gender they identify as, rather than the sex they were born into, is continuing the fight by serving Secretary of State Debra Bowen and other officials, the group announced Tuesday.

“We have served the Secretary of State with another legal action asking her to qualify the referendum and we have served county officials across the state with a demand for the documents to prove the abuse of discretion in rejecting more than 131,000 signatures,” Gina Gleason, director of faith and public policy at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills, wrote in a press release issued Tuesday morning.

Gleason is one of the proponents listed on a proposed referendum that would repeal Assembly Bill 1266, which was signed into law last September by Gov. Jerry Brown, and took effect on Jan. 1.

Opponents say the law will allow curious teens to ogle members of the opposite sex while at their most vulnerable, and for male students to game the system by dominating female sports teams. But officials in school districts where such policies have already been in effect — including Los Angeles and San Francisco unified school districts — have said those issues haven’t emerged in practice.

Chino-based group Privacy For All Students, with Gleason and Calvary Chapel Pastor Jack Hibbs as its most proponent spokespersons, collected signatures during the fall to put the matter before voters as a referendum on the 2014 ballot. An initial random sampling of the signatures showed PFAS came up 22,178 signatures short of the 504,760 signatures required to qualify for the ballot. They did get close enough to force a mandatory manual recount of every signature collected. (The previous sampling effort just looks at 500 signatures or 3 percent of the signatures submitted in each county, whichever was greater.)

But the manual recount also came up short, with officials saying on Feb. 24 that PFAS came 17,276 shy of the mark.

Read the full article here: Commentary and Opinion:

This article and issue peaks my interest on many levels. I’ll preface my comments by recognizing and affirming that our Current System requires that the populace and the particular Groups who hold competing moral opinions engage in a battle to carve out both “law” and morality. That’s how it works. As such, the Evangelical Christian* has as much right to influence and push for the definition of laws and the definition of morality as any other competing philosophical Group who disagrees.

While “Transgender” proponents take a “civil rights” posture…from a critical thinking perspective it doesn’t appear to be the case. Removing your male anatomy and fashioning the female organ in its place or feeling you are a boy trapped in a girl’s body no more makes you biologically male or female than sharpening your teeth to a point, dying your hair black and wearing a cape makes you a vampire. Except in the case of the hermaphrodite, Science appears to demonstrate either male or female biology, despite the psychological disposition of the particular individual.

Conversely, Transgender should not be a taboo or some sort of lightening rod or target for abuse and bullying by those who disagree morally. While I am highly critical of Evangelicals with regards to other issues, I do not see the Evangelical as wanting to target and bully Transgenders…as is the propaganda coming out of uber-liberal voices like Rachel Maddow and MSDNC.

Both Groups have their right to a moral opinion. The “civil rights” of the Transgender should be protected just like the civil rights of anyone else…with regards to the Bill of Rights. If a Transgender person is threatened with physical violence, they should use their right to pack a gun and protect themselves. If the Transgender person wants to speak out and present their moral opinion…they should have the right to do so.

The reality is that the “law” will be dictated by which Group in the Moral Debate will be able to apply more pressure and influence to write the law. Right now in California, the Pro-Transgender Group is winning that battle. It is not wrong for a church and church leader with a contrary moral opinion to fight against the current law. That’s how the Current System works.

While I disagree with Evangelicals on many issues…and there are many criticisms of the Group that are valid…Evangelicals have the right and responsibility to vote their Conscience and they have only themselves to blame when the issues of Morality and Law are dictated for them by other Groups in their Municipality, State or Nation.

Another issue that piques my interest with this one: Pastors are public figures and Pastors do interject themselves into public moral debate all the time. In the current lawsuit I am in with Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia…he is arguing he is not a public figure…and that he has not interjected himself into the public debate about morality and moral issues regarding child abuse or about financial corruption or other similar moral issues. Nothing could be further from the truth (and God hates “liars” and “liars” go to hell according to Bob’s bible).

Grenier fought against Gay Marriage publicly (quoted in the newspaper as well) and he also publicly railroaded Phil Aguilar of Set Free Ministries in a very aggressive campaign alleging child abuse, corruption etc. and was eventually successful in getting Aguilar booted from Visalia. Those are glaring examples of a Pastor interjecting himself into the public discussion of morality. Pastors do it all the time. When they take a stand publicly against a moral and legal issue like Transgender or Gay Marriage or any other similar issue…they are interjecting themselves into the public discussion about morality and holding themselves up as a public figure in that debate. Hibbs demonstrates this dynamic for us with the Transgender fight. I’m not saying it is right or wrong…I am saying it is the action of a Public Figure and not a private person. Regardless, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals recently ruled that private persons have to prove “actual malice” even if they aren’t considered public figures…if the matters under discussion are “in the public interest”…so I guess it’s a pretty moot point after that ruling. Pastors are clearly public figures in most cases…but if the issue is “in the public interest” then they must prove “actual malice” regardless.

A last comment about this one…a guy like Jack Hibbs will get up in arms about Transgender stuff in his State…something that is “outside the church”…yet not a peep from Hibbs about getting his Calvary Chapel Association to require mandatory Child Protection Policies and Financial Transparency in the by-laws of prospective Calvary Chapel affiliate/franchises to become an official Calvary Chapel.

Seems Paul the Apostle and the bible…which Hibbs and other Calvary Chapel guys say we are to interpret “simply”….says this:

1 Corinthians 5:12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.

Just goes to show…there’s nothing “simple” about bible interpretation…always an asterisk and fine-print for why Calvary Chapel pastors have no responsibility and no duty to “judge” their own Church Organization/Association.

 Posted by at 12:00 pm
Mar 272014
Former Calvary Chapel youth pastor, Nicholas Henshaw, commits suicide after arrest for child molestation.

Former Calvary Chapel youth pastor, Nicholas Henshaw, commits suicide after arrest for child molestation.

Article appears in Dana Pointe Times

By Andrea Papagianis

A former Dana Point youth minister who was arrested in Colorado last month and charged with the sexual assault of a child committed suicide Monday, according to authorities.

Nicholas Henshaw, 35, of Fort Collins, Colo. was found dead in a Loveland, Colo. hotel Monday morning, confirmed Stephen Hanks, a deputy coroner investigator with the Larimer County coroner’s office, who worked the case. His death has been ruled a suicide.

Henshaw’s body was discovered in a Holiday Inn Express south of Fort Collins. Authorities have determined the cause of death was suffocation by way of asphyxiation with helium, Hanks said.

In February, the former youth minister at Capo Beach Calvary Church, now Capo Beach Church, was charged with one count of sexual assault on a child by one in a position of trust, Larimer County court records show. Henshaw was accused of molesting an 8-year-old neighbor. The state of Colorado classifies the crime as a felony.

The accused was out of jail on bail. His next court appearance was set for April 4.

Over the last 18 months, Henshaw was the subject of multiple investigations in Larimer County, said criminal investigator Don Vagge with the Fort Collins Police Department. The most recent led to Henshaw’s arrest.

Henshaw was also the subject of an Orange County Sheriff’s Department investigation in the early 2000s.

Officials looked into suspicions that Henshaw committed lewd and lascivious acts with a child, according to OCSD spokesman Lt. Jeff Hallock. The case was presented to the District Attorney’s Office but no charges were filed due to a lack of evidence, Hallock said. No further details were provided.

Link to full news article here:

…and here: Commentary and Opinion:

Sad story. So many kids’ lives affected. I’m torn about the suicide. Part of me is glad Henshaw is dead and will no longer be able to hurt kids…and part of me wishes he’d have gone to prison and got some Prison Justice before he died.

What this story should illustrate is that pedophiles and child molesters seek out positions that put them with kids. Not all youth leaders and youth pastors and youth volunteers and youth helpers are molesters…but all molesters tend to seek out positions as youth workers.

It looks like Henshaw was a Youth Pastor at Calvary Chapel Capo Beach for a couple of years around 2000-2002. I am told by a friend familiar with that church and that situation that once that Calvary Chapel learned that he presented a danger to kids, they canned him….good for them.

Unfortunately, the guy simply moves to another area and molests more kids. There has to be a better way to mark these predators and give the communities they prey on a heads up in the Church System.

At minimum, Churches need to do a better job background checking their youth workers and leaders and not just checking their criminal records…sometimes these guys dodge the law for a long time…but actually calling their previous churches or organizations and asking if there have been any allegations or any investigations regarding child abuse…even if there has yet to be an arrest.


 Posted by at 10:15 am
Mar 182014
Smith family members are making serious allegations against Brian Brodersen, new top dog at the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa franchise.

Smith family members are making serious allegations against Brian Brodersen.

UPDATE 4/20/14: Brian Brodersen, who recently took the helm of the very powerful Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa franchise, is having serious allegations leveled against him by other Chuck Smith family members.

Kristyn Brodersen denies the allegations pertaining to Broderen’s alleged conduct toward her and says she and her brother have a good relationship with their parents.

The situation is complicated as motives for the release of the allegations are being questioned by some CC insiders as there is a very nasty family feud boiling just behind the scenes of Brodersen’s Big Happy Calvary Chapel Family PR puff-piece recently in Christianity Today:

Sources tell me that Brodersen and the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa board are threatening a lawsuit against Jeff Smith and The Word For Today franchise. It is reported that Brodersen and CCCM want ownership of the rights to control and use Chuck Smith’s huge library of sermons and teachings and the TWTF radio franchise.

At the moment a board headed by Chuck Smith’s son, Jeff Smith, owns and controls those sermons and teachings and radio properties and a family source close to the situation says that the goal of the current TWTF board is to make Chuck Smith’s audio-radio-teaching library available to the public free of charge online.

Calvary Chapel Abuse Commentary and Opinion:

The allegations against Brodersen by other (multiple) Smith family members are very serious. While motives are being questioned, my personal concern is for the truth regardless of motives. Just because someone doesn’t like someone else or doesn’t agree with someone else does not mean you dismiss the allegations as false. If you applied such a principle then you couldn’t believe any allegations made by most anyone in politics, religion, business etc. The issue is: Are the allegations true or not? In this case, there are two sets of allegations, one is personal to Brodersen’s conduct as the perpetrator, in the other set of allegations it is with regards to Brodersen’s protecting someone he allegedly knew had committed a crime.

What is concerning to me is that I have reached out to Brodersen multiple times now for his side of the story with no response. I publicly ask Brian Brodersen to come forward and give an answer to the allegations before I publish a more detailed and specific article about these issues.

The recent puff-piece in Christianity Today is insulting and an example of the lying that Calvary Chapel leadership engages in on a regular basis. The truth about things and what is really going on behind the scenes is the last thing you’ll ever hear candidly from Calvary Chapel leadership, even though the “bible” seems explicit about God “hating” liars.

To be frank, the Christianity Today interview is about like watching an infomercial or reading a press release from the communist Chinese “official news agency.” The real story going on is intentionally hidden from the money-giving public being solicited for money in the name of Jesus.

A personal note: It is becoming much clearer to me why Chuck Smith didn’t want to touch my personal Calvary Chapel child abuse story with the length of Moses’s staff.

Brodersen and CCCM may decide to sue…that seems to be part of the Calvary Chapel Ethos and DNA and history…but that will not deter me from trying to uncover the truth of these matters and to report on matters of serious public interest.

 Posted by at 10:55 am
Feb 252014
Lawsuit in Hawaii seeks to hold Calvary Chapel accountable for what it alleges is defrauding the state out of money for use of state facilities.

Lawsuit in Hawaii seeks to hold Calvary Chapel accountable for what it alleges is defrauding the state out of money for use of state facilities.

The Beat, Hawaii

An amended lawsuit was filed yesterday against two of the Hawaii churches accused of underpaying the state in their use of school facilities.

Local activists Mitch Kahle and Holly Huber, who are realtors suing on behalf of the state, contend that One Love Ministries and Calvary Chapel Central Oahu intentionally deprived public schools of about $1 million in underpaid rental payments and other charges.

Full article here:

According to the article, the plaintiffs are seeking triple damages on behalf of the State of Hawaii, or $3.6 million. The lawsuit alleges that Calvary Chapel used state facilities for much longer than the paid-for periods of time agreed to in contracts.

The original lawsuit was sent back by a judge who requested more detailed information and proof of claims. The now 60-page lawsuit provides a much more detailed account of the allegations with supporting data.

View the amended complaint here:

The suit alleges “fraudulent material omissions” and “falsifying records” to defraud the Department of Education out of monies collected for rent and utilities etc.

Another church that was attached to the first version of the lawsuit has settled out of court for $775,000. Commentary:

I’ve reviewed the lawsuit, it is very detailed and gives specifics of dates, times, events and alleges the facilities were in use by Calvary Chapel…but the Plaintiffs could find no record of payment for use during those many specific time periods. 

To cut to the chase, I think Calvary Chapel screwed the pooch on this one and they’re in some big trouble. Read the lawsuit and tell us what you think.

 Posted by at 11:24 am
Feb 132014
george bryson

George Bryson is getting kicked out of Calvary Chapel and a church split is imminent according to a CC watchdog. Bryson is pictured during his debate with James White that gained popularity amongst the Reformed Camp for demonstrating the lack of intellectualism in the Calvary Chapel non-denomination.

Michael Newnham, citing an email he says he possesses signed by “Don McClure, Skip Heitzig, Damian Kyle, Brian Brodersen, Wayne Taylor, Ricky Ryan, Raul Ries, Joe Focht, Bob Coy, Bob Caldwell, Jack Hibbs, David Rosales, Malcolm Wild, Jeff Johnson, Bill Stonebraker, Tom Stipe, David Guzik, Ray Bentley, Lloyd Pulley, Sandy Adams and Mike MacIntosh” reports a “split” of Calvary Chapel on his popular Phoenix Preacher blog today.

From the article:

“The Calvary Chapel Association announced this afternoon in an email to their pastors that George Bryson would be starting his own movement and those pastors who decide to join with him will have to change the names of their churches.”

According to Newnham, the email lays out a request for George Bryson of Calvary Chapel Church Planting Mission and rabid anti-Calvinist fame, to get out of the Calvary Chapel Association and to change his name from the officially owned licensing of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa regarding the Calvary Chapel Dove logo and the name “Calvary Chapel.”

While there is no official “split” yet, the email seems to suggest one is imminent to some degree.

In a blog comment connected to the article titled, “Calvary Chapel Splits”….Newnham offers the following he quotes from the email:

“2. The name “Calvary Chapel” is a copyrighted name and is only used by permission. Therefore if a pastor, church or ministry decides to change their affiliation away from the Calvary Chapel Association they must also agree to rename themselves. This is needed in order to prevent possible confusion.
3. Thus, we request that any of the churches that choose to identify with George’s group let us know that you are changing your name and affiliation. And to all of you, we truly pray that the Lord continues to guide and bless you.
For those of you who have been a part of Calvary Chapel for many years, you are aware that we have had some of the churches leave and affiliate with other groups (such as the Vineyard). And through the years many have maintained their affiliation with those groups, but some have asked to return and we have welcomed them back. So if any of you choose to go with George, in love let’s pray God’s best for one another. And if any change their mind later, the door will remain open to renewed association.”

Steve Wright, Calvary Chapel Pastor of CCLE or Calvary Chapel Lake Elsinore, weighs in with this commentary:

“I am curious how many pastors are going with George, if any.

Churches have left CC before, including one of our good friends here at PhxP. But it does not warrant such a letter.

I received all of George’s emails in past months, but have not heard from him or anyone else asking me to join some new movement. Nor have I heard any discussion at any of the local pastor meetings I have recently attended. Sort of hard to really call it a split until multiple churches actually…split.

Frankly, the new CCA has had zero influence on our CC, or the CCs in the area. Not sure who (or why) anyone would want to leave just because of its existence.”

“Mark”, a self-professed long-time Calvary Chapelite in some sort of past Calvary Chapel leadership position (corroborated by Newnham as such) offers this input verbatim, spelling errors and bad grammar and bad punctuation included:

“Anne are your currently attending a Calvary chapel ? If not I’d hesitate to speculate on what Bryson or the few that follow him will b reaching. Despite the description this is not a church split. This is one old timer with little relevance in the current CC taking his ball and going home. Few will follow because by doing so they lose the dove and all the name recognition and attractiveness that brings. ( pause here for vitriolic reaction from RiBo”

We’ll keep you posted as more info comes to light. This is certainly newsworthy and interesting.

Split? No split? Repudiation of George Bryson?

Time will tell.

 Posted by at 12:35 pm
Jan 182014
Don't SLAPP. It costs you a lot of Jesus-money.

Don’t SLAPP. It costs you a lot of Jesus-money.

A huge victory for bloggers was handed down on Friday by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

The Court ruled that “matters of public interest” rise to the same level as public figure status in defamation lawsuits, even if the individual subject is not a public figure.

This ruling makes the threshold for defamation suits involving private individuals the same threshold as public figure status if the matters are “in the public interest” according to the ruling.

In the Calvary Chapel Pastor Bob Grenier lawsuit, this has major implications as the lower court judge already ruled that the matters of child abuse and church abuse, etc. constitute “matters of public interest.”

This is important because the lower court judge appeared to allow a defamation suit by Calvary Chapel Pastor Bob Grenier’s wife to move forward since the judge deemed her a private individual and accepted her claims prima facia.

Now that the Court has ruled that matters “in the public interest” are on par with “public figure” threshold in defamation suits, it is “not likely” that Grenier’s wife would prevail, according to sources, which means the Anti-SLAPP law should apply.

It is the opinion of Calvary Chapel Abuse that the case currently in Appeals was strong without yesterday’s ruling, and now we believe the odds are extremely unlikely that Calvary Chapel Grenier will prevail.

Link to AP article here:

Link to the Court’s opinion here:

The burden of proof is on the plaintiffs to prove “actual malice” and “negligence” which according to legal sources:

“In a legal sense, “actual malice” has nothing to do with ill will or disliking someone and wishing him harm. Rather, courts have defined “actual malice” in the defamation context as publishing a statement while either

    • knowing that it is false; or
  • acting with reckless disregard for the statement’s truth or falsity.

It should be noted that the actual malice standard focuses on the defendant’s actual state of mind at the time of publication. Unlike the negligence standard discussed later in this section, the actual malice standard is not measured by what a reasonable person would have published or investigated prior to publication. Instead, the plaintiff must produce clear and convincing evidence that the defendant actually knew the information was false or entertained serious doubts as to the truth of his publication. In making this determination, a court will look for evidence of the defendant’s state of mind at the time of publication and will likely examine the steps he took in researching, editing, and fact checking his work. It is generally not sufficient, however, for a plaintiff to merely show that the defendant didn’t like her, failed to contact her for comment, knew she had denied the information, relied on a single biased source, or failed to correct the statement after publication.

Not surprisingly, this is a very difficult standard for a plaintiff to establish. Indeed, in only a handful of cases over the last decades have plaintiffs been successful in establishing the requisite actual malice to prove defamation.”–Digital Media Law Project.

 Posted by at 11:43 am
Jan 162014
  • Do you feel as if you’re unraveling? The good news is God hasn’t abandoned you, he knows (via crucifixion) what it’s like to be undone/torn and is eager to mend/repair.
    Like ·  · Share · Unfollow Post
    • John Luoma Thanks for this today
      10 hours ago · Like · 1
    • Sue Roberts Needed this- thank you
      8 hours ago · Like · 1
    • Sonia Werk Bryan THAT was a much needed word! really blessed by the ministry of calvarySLO!
      5 hours ago · Like · 1
    • Pat Eroh My husband and I met today for lunch – a first in a long time.  It was nice but he said that he felt like he was drifting away from the Lord. I told him that I felt the same way. He said good, that means we can move back to God together. This “unraveling” describes it exactly. I take it that it is more than just me that God was speaking to today, but what is really cool is that it is ME too  Thank you Brian. I’m all of the way over here in Pennsylvania and you let God speak to us through you.
      4 hours ago · Like · 1
    • Alex Joye Grenier Not really, not in my experience, not in your Tribe, my former Tribe. Stuff happens. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn’t. It’s random. If you expect much from the “church” and leaders in terms of justice or help etc, good luck LOL. When push comes to shove, it’s pretty arbitrary. The post is typical Christianeze, but it doesn’t really mean anything, not in real life. Love your kids, provide as best you can for your family and then roll with the punches. That’s all you can do. You may get through life w/o much hardship, but most will face injustice, illness, health issues, loss of loved ones, personal tragedy, financial hardships, etc. It’s just life. “God” in whatever form does not really do anything based off of your actions or prayers etc. There is zero correlation. It rains on everyone. If something goes better, it wasn’t b/c you did something or didn’t do something (unless it’s reaping and sowing principle…like you lost 50lbs. and exercised and your health improved). If something doesn’t work out, it’s not b/c you didn’t have enough faith or didn’t pray hard enough etc, sometimes it’s just your turn in life.
    • Alex Joye Grenier …and if you find yourself unraveling, go get some help from someone besides a “pastor” or church. There are trained medical professionals, psychologists, etc, who can provide you with real help.
    • Stephen Lane Proverbs 23… I have been saved
    • Craig Johnson Alex, sorry man. Hope that the Lord heals whatever hurt you experienced using men or method.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Thanks Craig, but I’ve actually gotten a lot of help outside the “church” and see things much more clearly now. Letting go of the cult-like mentality has been very healing.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Honesty and especially intellectual honesty has been very beneficial.
    • Craig Johnson Ok. but remember men are men and God is God. The men part is where the church blows it sometimes. Just dont give up on HIM.
    • Craig Johnson Many people admire Christ but not the christians so much. We need to do better. On behalf of whoever blew it, I’m sorry.
    • Alex Joye Grenier It’s a little of that, but more that Christianity* is really man’s skin put onto “god” in whatever form and is probably not nearly an accurate and certainly not an intellectually honest approach. We simply don’t know and can’t know for sure, yet man has created religion and church and “thus sayeth the Lord!” and it’s really become more of something to defend and apologize for than something that is “good”
    • Alex Joye Grenier’s also become quite a career and quite a business.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Every Group has the leaders who let you down and every Group has injustice be it Christian* or Humanist or Buddhist or whatever. Man is pretty darn consistent and similarly good and bad no matter the philosophical Belief System.
    • Craig Johnson i went back to the word recently when I sorta felt that way. In the gospels I encountered afresh the person of Jesus. It cleared it up for me…
    • Craig Johnson Highly recommend it.
    • Alex Joye Grenier I like the Jesus of most of the Gospel accounts. The “Law of Love” seems to be “good”. The Jesus of the Old Testament, not so much. The Jesus of Revelation, not so much either.
    • Craig Johnson Stay in the gospels. Let him wrap his love around you then go to the rest. Otherwise, fear abounds.
    • Alex Joye Grenier The problem with appealing to the biblical “Jesus” is that you can’t really separate the Jesus who told the Isrealites to kill all the women, children, infants and animals of the Amalekites in the OT, from the “law of love” Jesus in the NT and then the Jesus who comes back on a white horse in Revelation and slaughters his enemies with a sword and then casts them into eternal torture forever.
    • Craig Johnson Get the love first and then you’ll understand the justice. Otherwise its mean and arbitrary.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Please explain. I have received no consistent and good explanation, I’ve even asked Stupar and he didn’t answer, he referred me to books and authors I’ve already read.
    • Alex Joye Grenier How is “love” expressed in torturing your enemies forever with no end? Especially in light of the statement in the Gospels to “love your enemies…as your father in heaven is perfect” by Jesus?
    • Alex Joye Grenier Why is it commanded of us humans to “love your enemies” and if we tortured our enemies it would be considered “not love”….yet God who we are told to emulate tortures his enemies in hell forever?
    • Alex Joye Grenier Justice doesn’t seem to be “love” in that context, especially due to the fact that most of humanity never heard the Gospel message…yet it is presumed they are tortured forever anyway by Christianity*, correct?
    • Craig Johnson Separation from God is not His choice its ours.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Craig, most of humanity never had a real choice, they never heard the Gospel. The Mayans, Indians, Incans, you name it, never heard. Did they have a choice?
    • Alex Joye Grenier How can you be saved if you never heard the Gospel? Are you saying folks can be saved w/o the Gospel?
    • Craig Johnson Thats why Jesus went below to preach the message before ascending. Men are judged on the light received. That is why the end is not yet.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Is it “just” and “love” to torture a human being forever in hell…and he didn’t hear the Gospel and therfore had no choice?
    • Alex Joye Grenier You’re saying Jesus went to hades? Jesus preached the Gospel in hades? People had a second chance after they died?
    • Craig Johnson Thats why it goes to the end of the earth so ALL can choose.
    • Alex Joye Grenier So if you die and never heard the Gospel, you get to hear the Gospel after you’re dead and then make a choice?
    • Craig Johnson Prior to his ascension thats what I’ve been taught.
    • Alex Joye Grenier What about after? Many die today and never heard the Gospel.
    • Craig Johnson Gods perfect justice should reveal that
    • Alex Joye Grenier Closed societies like North Korea don’t hear the Gospel.
    • Alex Joye Grenier There are still tribes in the Amazon that we haven’t discovered, etc.
    • Alex Joye Grenier There are many strict muslim nations where the Gospel is prohibited and many in those nations don’t ever hear the Christian* Gospel and they die with no “choice”
    • Craig Johnson Only God knows the measure of revelation to a given person.
    • Alex Joye Grenier So you are saying it’s possible to be saved without the Gospel?
    • Craig Johnson Dont know. Only say its definite to be saved with it.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Which version? Calvary Chapels? Mormon? Catholic?
    • Alex Joye Grenier Why can I be sure I’m saved by the CC version of the Gospel but not the Mormon version?
    • Craig Johnson Were you LDS?
    • Alex Joye Grenier Nope. But I study their theology as well as many others. I grew up in Calvary Chapel. My step dad is a CC pastor.
    • Alex Joye Grenier I live in Idaho so I have many Mormon friends.
    • Craig Johnson Salvation is a free gift. Works doesnt change that.
    • Alex Joye Grenier I was taught growing up that Mormons were a “cult” but I find Calvary Chapel to be more of a cult if Mormon’s are a cult according to CC.
    • Craig Johnson Evangelical versus I can do enough to be good enough…
    • Alex Joye Grenier So there’s nothing I have to do to be saved? Don’t I have to hear and respond to the Gospel affirmatively? Isn’t that a work?
    • Craig Johnson Mormons, JW and SOME Catholics think that its merit based
    • Alex Joye Grenier If I live my life and demonstrate no good works, am I saved? Sounds like antinomianism.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Mormons dont’ really believe that, not when you examine it closer. Mormons are actually a lot like Calvary Chapel.
    • Craig Johnson If I bring you a piece of pizza and you say thanks is that work? Dude stop. Go get things worked out with your Dad.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Mormons believe it is faith and grace that saves you, and that good works validate that saving faith.
    • Alex Joye Grenier Things are worked out with my Dad.
    • Craig Johnson Ok. Whats Joe got to add to the book?
    • Alex Joye Grenier My Dad is not a CC pastor, my step dad is.
    • Alex Joye Grenier I don’t understand your last question
    • Craig Johnson The book of Mormon. What are the rest of us missing?
    • Craig Johnson Revelation finished the show
    • Alex Joye Grenier The book of mormon is no more or less provable or disprovable than the bible.
    • Alex Joye Grenier “Revelation finished the show” how do you know?
    • Alex Joye Grenier Because a Council convened by Roman Emperor Constantine, the founder of the Roman Catholic Church, told you so?
    • Craig Johnson After revelation what was there to add? And why?
    • Alex Joye Grenier Well, as a CC you are probably Dispensationalist. You are also probably in agreement with Progressive Revelation (w/o knowing it).
    • Craig Johnson Im actually part of a differnt cult haha.
    • Alex Joye Grenier When preachers get a “word from God!” they are essentially saying “God told me this!” and they are interpreting the bible and then telling you what it really says. That is as much a book of mormon as anything.
    • Craig Johnson A word has to line up with scripture or forget it
    • Craig Johnson Canonized scripture reigns
    • Alex Joye Grenier That’s about as subjective as it comes. There are 9,000 to 30,000 different Christian* denominations and they all have vastly different takes on much of the scripture and “what it says!”
    • Alex Joye Grenier “Canonized” scripture. RCC Canon? EO Canon? Ethiopian Canon?
    • Alex Joye Grenier Which translation? There’s a ton of them and there are real differences in meaning on many verses depending on which one you choose…
    • Craig Johnson Seems like you are either are arguing for the sake of it or looking for an excuse for rebellion. I’d say both. Do you believe in the Spirit of God. Ask Him for truth. If you dont, you have no guide…
    • Craig Johnson Seems like your head is full. Congratulations. Now go down 12 inches and see what that says. Fill it up. Semantics wont matter so much…God Bless buddy!
    • Alex Joye Grenier There are just some real issues with your evangelical belief system and instead of being intellectually honest, as I stated above, it becomes about defending and apologizing.
    • Craig Johnson God is questioned in the head but found in the heart. Open your heart to Him and challenge Him to reveal truth.
    • Alex Joye Grenier I have and do and I think I have a lot more truth today than before.
    • Craig Johnson He will. he loves you. Good night.
    • Alex Joye Grenier He has and if he or it exists he loves you too and probably everyone else and he or it probably won’t torture anyone forever with no end.
        • Mike Richard Edwards Alex I was a Mormon for 10 years from age 14 through 24. I was married in the Los Angeles temple, did my genealogy, paid my tithing, attended a gazillion meetings, stored food, kept my yard clean and a myriad other practices designed to either perfect…See More
        • Alex Joye Grenier Mike, same dynamic in CC. Your position before “god” is determined by whether or not you are “abiding” as Chuck Smith called it and “under the spout” and “walking in the Spirit” etc. Different buzz words, same dynamic.
        • Alex Joye Grenier “Religious systems are only as good as their reflection of God’s word. mormons and other isms, not content with the words of the Bible, as spoken, just change or add to the content when it disagrees with their preconceived notions.” Chuck Smith taught a doctrine of the resurrection that contradicts the historically orthodox Christian* teaching on the subject.
        • Alex Joye Grenier The fact is that “interpretation” and “this is what the bible really says!” is as much the book of mormon as anything. Chuck had some pretty unorthodox and even some heretical doctrines and teachings and certainly some heterodox teachings compared to the historical faith.
        • Craig Johnson Mike that was awesome. Wrap that up in a nice bow!
        • Alex Joye Grenier As I stated, Chuck made up stuff that he says he heard from ‘god’ etc. Similar to Joseph.
        • Mike Richard Edwards Not familiar with Chuck Smith’s teaching on the resurrection, nor do I subscribe to every Calvary Chapel tennant. Although it has been a few years since we attended a Calvary Chapel, one thing that keeps Calvary chapel out of the cult realm in my mind…See More
        • Alex Joye Grenier Chuck Smith taught that we get spirit-bodies which is different than the literal resurrection of the flesh that is considered orthodox Christian* belief.
        • Mike Richard Edwards As far as the security of the believer goes, that has been a topic debated among Christians for 2000 years–cults do not allow such debate
        • Alex Joye Grenier The End Time emphasis and “rapture” is also heterodox and was the prime teaching of CC.
        • Craig Johnson So Alex let’s get down to what do you actually believe?
        • Alex Joye Grenier Mormons then are not a cult and I was taught they were growing up in CC. I have many discussions both online and in person with Mormons and they are very pleasant to talk to about a range of issues.
        • Alex Joye Grenier I believe that Absolute/Objective vs. Relative/Subjective Truth and Authority drives people’s Philosophical Belief Systems, a.k.a. Religion.
        • Mike Richard Edwards Mike Richard Edwards I have heard Chuck Smith and Don Stewart speculate on things like the resurrection, but I have never heard them put their opinions as carrying the weight of scripture. The reality is that we do not really know what happens after we die–spirit body? Soul sleep? Don’t know
        • Alex Joye Grenier I believe in filtering everything through Conscience and Reason to determine what is true.
        • Craig Johnson Again Alex that’s intellectual mumbo jumbo what do you think is the truth?
        • Alex Joye Grenier I believe that it is more probable that God “is” than God is not.
        • Alex Joye Grenier I’m getting there Craig, I’m starting from the beginning
        • Craig Johnson That’s a great start my friend
        • Craig Johnson Erase the rest then embrace the best
        • Alex Joye Grenier I believe that the bible contains many truths but is not infallible and inerrant and perfect. I do not believe the bible is God. I believe the bible is “inspired” but it has verifiable mistakes and contradictions etc that are easily self-evident.
        • Alex Joye Grenier I believe that the Ideal of most of the Gospel accounts of Jesus is “good” and I believe that if Jesus did in fact walk the earth and did in fact resurrect etc then he is the messiah, though I cannot prove it empirically.
        • Craig Johnson I wasn’t there either but my spirit tells me it’s fact
        • Alex Joye Grenier I believe that “love your neighbor” is “good” and I believe that “kill the Amalekite women, children and infants” is “evil”
        • Alex Joye Grenier I believe that commanding a people through law to execute their rebellious children with stones is “evil” and that feeding the hungry, helping the orphan and widow is “good”
        • Mike Richard Edwards “Mormons then are not a cult and I was taught they were growing up in CC. I have many discussions both online and in person with Mormons and they are very pleasant to talk to about a range of issues.” Being pleasant is a good thing, but does not move …See More
        • Alex Joye Grenier Mike, my point about that is that you stated that CC isn’t a cult b/c you could discuss things and disagree etc. Same as my experience with Mormons.
        • Mike Richard Edwards You can disagree with them because you are a possible convert. Once you have been in the church the requirements get steeper and steeper. I’m not making this up–I lived it.
        • Alex Joye Grenier I know all about the “odd” stuff Mike. I’ve had as frank of discussions as you can imagine…and Mormons are not monolithic, many believe some of the stuff and not some of the stuff.
        • Mike Richard Edwards Alex, most Mormons do not comprehend their own religion. what odd stuff do you know about?
        • Alex Joye Grenier Ya, I’m sure there is some truth to that, just as there are similar things in Calvary Chapel that I experienced. I was told my Lutheran best friend wasn’t saved and went to a dead church and that he wasn’t saved etc.
        • Mike Richard Edwards Did you know about the temple rites? where they are taught hand signals to get into heaven and promise to have their throat slit and to be disemboweled if they divulge any temple secrets. It just goes on and on
        • Alex Joye Grenier Celestial, Telestial, Terrestial and outer darkness.
        • Alex Joye Grenier Planet Kolob though that is a fringe issue now.
        • Alex Joye Grenier That we are eternal spirits and that this existence here on earth is like a test for us, etc.
        • Mike Richard Edwards Alex I appreciate your honesty, but if you are going to be a good skeptic you shouldn’t push a point that has little backing.
        • Alex Joye Grenier They have a more literal view of the Godhead. They actually take it literally that Jesus is God’s only begotten son etc. and they use the word Godhead instead othe extra-bibical man-made word “trinity”
        • Alex Joye Grenier Mike, I didn’t say I believed it, I was articulating some of the stuff I’ve learned from their Belief System that I found odd compared to CC.
        • Mike Richard Edwards Now the problems with the Bible like the destruction of the Amalekites–to me that is a vaid question
        • Craig Johnson What if the Amalekites had revelation about the God of Israel and chose to reject him and fight him and hated his people. What they deserve lollipops?
        • Alex Joye Grenier Genocide is considered universally “evil” and there is a real moral/ethical dilemma presented if you assert that “god” commanded the israelites to kill all the women, children, infants and animals. That would be considered “evil” and wrong in any context if you or I gave that order.
        • Craig Johnson As the people moved across the land they were known to fight by attacking the elderly the feeble and the children. Again lollipops?
        • Alex Joye Grenier Doesn’t matter. From a moral/ethical standpoint you are forced to call it “good” since God gave the order and it isn’t “good” by an universally acceptable definition of the term “good”
        • Alex Joye Grenier My guess is “god” didn’t tell the israelites to kill all the women, children and infants, even though the bible says so.
        • Craig Johnson Sounds like you think you have the definition of good clearly defined no offense intended but who are you to say what’s good?
        • Craig Johnson Where did your road map come from philosopher’s?
        • Mike Richard Edwards Let’s talk about the Amorites. they too were given a death sentence. They were given 400 years to repent of their practices of child sacrifice and before having them wiped out God said of them, “the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” Is it possible that the sins of a society can become so systemic that nothing short of complete destruction can rid the world of their influence?
        • Mike Richard Edwards America is exporting abortion and pornography. What will come of us when our iniquity is complete?
        • Craig Johnson Where did your concept of Good and Evil come from a supreme God what or the primordial ooze?
        • Alex Joye Grenier Levitical law, supposedly commanded by God to Moses to tell the Israelites: “As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers …See More
        • Mike Richard Edwards Only God has the right over life or death. Only God has the right to kill or make alive. None of us will live forever and not one of us has the capacity to sovereignly see the end from the beginning
        • Alex Joye Grenier Craig, my Reason and Conscience tell me stuff is “good” and “evil”…just like you stated above you said to “ask him for truth”…well that’s what my Conscience tells me.
        • Alex Joye Grenier So, you are asserting that God can be evil but we can’t. God can do whatever he wants and it’s “good” no matter what, but if we emulate God, as we are told to do, and commit Genocide, then we are evil?
        • Alex Joye Grenier If God commanded Genocide and it’s “good” how come Hitler was “evil”?
        • Alex Joye Grenier One standard for God, another for Hitler?
        • Alex Joye Grenier The evangelical and “literal interpretation” and “bible is inerrant and infallible!” position makes God out to be evil which is self-evident if you read the whole bible and not just the 25% that most evangelical churches teach out of.
        • Alex Joye Grenier “God” if he or it is truly “good” and truly “love” cannot have commanded Genocide and things like executing unruly children with stones and telling you you could own slaves as personal property and that you could beat them as long as you didn’t kill them etc.
        • Alex Joye Grenier Those are some of the inconvenient truths about the CC and evangelical soup. It is what it is. It has caused me to be much more liberal theologically, much more.
 Posted by at 11:16 pm
Jan 082014
Social Media Campaign to address Calvary Chapel Church abuses.

Social Media Campaign to address Calvary Chapel Church abuses.

Thank you to all of you who have shown/given support to our efforts to bring reforms to the Calvary Chapel System of Churches and/or to warn the public about the often-untold other side of the Calvary Chapel Story.

In that ongoing effort, here is a particular tactic we can do together:

Calvary Chapels are located in cities all over the United States. Each city has a set of online social media feedback/review outlets like Topix, Google reviews, Yelp, and even facebook pages about the local area.

We’re going to leverage those to get the word out. Here’s how:

1. Create a Topix post and write a brief paragraph about Calvary Chapel abuses in general, warning the public that there have been well-documented problems/abuses/corruption in the Calvary Chapel System and to make sure to do your research before committing and trusting a particular Calvary Chapel franchise. Not all Calvary Chapels are the same, despite the claims they make of “Affiliation” and “Association”. Then simply copy and paste a link to the website. Use the link to the main page, as individual page links are too long and don’t work on Topix. Copy and paste this into your post:

2. Write Google reviews for the particular Calvary Chapel franchises, but simply discuss what your experience has been in the Calvary Chapel System and what your concerns are with Calvary Chapel as a whole and point them to articles on this site or to the main page and ask them to do their research and due diligence before committing to a Calvary Chapel franchise, because not all Calvary Chapels are safe places and the dangers in Calvary Chapel that are well-documented in the public record are often hidden from Calvary Chapel non-member members and prospective non-members.

3. Write Yelp reviews similar to the Google reviews and point folks to the Calvary Chapel Abuse website for more information and warn them that not all Calvary Chapels are the same and there have been many issues of abuse and corruption in the Calvary Chapel System and that there are not mandatory protections in place in the Affiliation/Association Agreements that each CC Franchisee has with Calvary Chapel. Ask them to do their due diligence and know the whole Calvary Chapel story, not just the CC Sales Pitch.

4. Link Calvary Chapel Abuse articles on your facebook page and share the articles with friends. Link CC Abuse articles on other facebook pages you “like” and get the word out in your area or anywhere you can.

All of this does important things: It creates broader awareness to the problems in Calvary Chapel and warns people (which arms them with both sides of the CC Story, not just the PR sales pitch), it raises awareness and puts pressure on the Calvary Chapel System to clean up its act and is in itself a form of much needed accountability, and it drives traffic to this website/blog and moves up the ranks in the Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and causes us to climb the list of “Most popular blogs” by the analytics used to rank blogs. Currently, CC Abuse is now ranked in the Top 100 most popular Christian blogs in the US by the site metrics used to rank such (using Alexa rankings). We are rapidly climbing. We have over 6 MILLION hits in over 3 years and the traffic is picking up.

Let’s keep making noise. Let’s keep pushing. It’s how things get done in our current System. We have power. Let’s use it.

Here’s an example of a Topix discussion thread with link to the Calvary Chapel Abuse website:

 Posted by at 10:26 am
Jan 032014
Calvary Chapel Pastor Rob McCoy of Thousand Oaks California is set to run for a State Assembly seat as a Republican.

Calvary Chapel Pastor Rob McCoy of Thousand Oaks California is set to run for a State Assembly seat as a Republican.

Reprinted in part from The Acorn

By Kyle Jorrey

A Thousand Oaks pastor with close ties to the Republican Party says he plans to file the paperwork necessary to seek office in California’s 44th Assembly District.

Rob McCoy, senior pastor of Calvary Chapel Thousand Oaks, told The Acorn that he will run as a Republican for the seat currently held by Jeff Gorell. Gorell is stepping down to run for U.S. Congress against U.S. Rep. Julia Brownley.

The 44th District includes most of Ventura County and Westlake Village in L.A. County.

A virtual unknown to many voters, McCoy leads a congregation of approximately 700, more than seven times the size of the parish he came to in 2001. But he’s a political neophyte.

“I want to prove to Sacramento and to the rest of the state that you can have a regular citizen go and operate the government the way it was intended to be, by the citizenry and not by professional politicians,” McCoy said.

“I want to change the paradigm and the dynamic of the California Assembly, and I’m going to do it one person at a time.”

Full article from The Acorn here:

COMMENTARY FROM CALVARYCHAPELABUSE.COM: Calvary Chapel Abuse would like to know where Calvary Chapel Pastor Rob McCoy, soon to be California State Assembly Republican Candidate McCoy stands on the issues of Child Protection Policies, Child Abuse, Financial Transparency and how to deal with accused Child Molesters in his Calvary Chapel Association?

Currently Calvary Chapel Association does not require Child Protection Policies, many Calvary Chapels teach what the State of California legally defines as Child Abuse (see Calvary Chapel Jonesboro’s teachings here):

Calvary Chapel does not require Open Finances. Calvary Chapel pastors often collect hundreds of thousands of dollars and sometimes millions of dollars “in the name of Jesus” and most of the money is spent on Pastor’s salaries, perks, benefits, buildings, travel, staff, overhead etc. with very little to zero of the monies going to actually help local folks in a charitable way. Closed finances and financial opacity are the norm in the Calvary Chapel Association.

The website documents the facts about “Affiliation/Association” and the agreement/contract required to be an official Calvary Chapel franchise. It also articulates an overall Leadership Council as well as Regional Leadership/Oversight teams.

Link here:

Currently, Calvary Chapel Pastor and Candidate Rob McCoy has a fellow official “Calvary Chapel Affiliate/Associate” in California, in the form of Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia, who is currently accused of not only physical Child Abuse but also Sexual Abuse by his blood son, Paul Grenier, also of California. See Paul Grenier’s graphic testimony in court documents here:

We think Candidate Rob McCoy needs to weigh in on these issues. Can he be trusted to be a State Government official? What are his stances on Child Abuse in the Church? What are his stances on Financial Accountability?

 Posted by at 11:23 am