Oct 192012
 

Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia and Gayle Grenier his wife (my mother) have filed a lawsuit against their stepson/son Alex Grenier (me) for speaking publicly about Paul Grenier’s child molestation allegations and for exposing corruption in the form of misusing church funds for personal gain (or “stealing” money from the church and from God, etc).

I’ve read through the lawsuit a few times. The main theme is (as I predicted) “it’s a hate campaign” and “cyberbullying” along with defamation/libel. The suit also appears to allege some sort of conspiracy between me and another singular party to engage in a “hate campaign” etc. The suit is seeking monetary damages, but did not cite a specific number, but checked the box “Unlimited”.

What is very interesting is who and what are left out of the lawsuit.

The suit does not name Edna Silva or Tina Jenkins, which the “intent to sue” letter I received a month ago listed them as targets of the coming suit as well. I am glad Bob listened to my public challenge and decided not to put those dear women through more abuse. They’ve had enough from him.

The suit also doesn’t name my brother Paul Grenier, who has gone on the public record as stating clearly that Bob Grenier, Calvary Chapel Visalia Pastor and Visalia Police Department Chaplain in good standing, molested him. For the record, I believe Bob Grenier to be a child molester, I believe my brother Paul’s testimony he shared in the offices of Portland Attorney and Child Abuse Advocate Kelly Clark. I believe Paul’s written public testimony on this blog. Bob is a monster, IMO, and beat me and my brothers violently. Bob made me shower naked with him many times when I was a boy and Bob had a regular habit of being around us naked, with his genitals exposed. For these and many other reasons, I believe Paul and stand by my public comments and will continue to warn the Public as it is highly in the Public Interest as Bob Grenier is a Pastor and Police Chaplain and in a Position of Trust (and shouldn’t be trusted).

The suit also fails to name Geoff Grenier, another stepson (my full brother) who is on the public record as corroborating the violent child abuse in our home growing up.

I have spoken out publicly and consistently about many abuses by Bob Grenier and Calvary Chapel…including the child abuse, the molestation, the corruption, pill addiction/abuse, telling a Calvary Chapel mother to not report child molestation of her daughters to authorities, cult-like counseling, bullying/harassing of female staff, lying, manipulating etc etc etc.

Bob Grenier seems to be admitting to many of the other allegations by not challenging them, but is focusing specifically in the lawsuit on the issues of child molestation and corruption/stealing.

There are many errors in the lawsuit, the biggest being that my speaking out publicly and exercising my First Amendment Free Speech Rights to deal with these serious issues that are in the Public Interest is “not” defamation/libel and my consistently speaking out and warning people and calling publicly for accountability in these matters is “not” a “hate campaign” nor is it “cyberbullying” no matter how many times Bob repeats it in his lawsuit.

If Bob Grenier and by extension Calvary Chapel (who he represents as an Affiliated Pastor) are allowed to get away with framing Free Speech, Whistleblowing and exposing abuse and corruption in the church as a “hate campaign” and “cyberbullying” and “defamation/libel”…then the Chilling Effect it will have on others is extremely frightening. This is a very important matter. If those who wield the Power of Public Figure and Position of Trust Pastor/Chaplain are allowed to win frivolous lawsuits in an attempt to cover over their bad actions and silence victims and critics and watchdogs, then beware, you might be next…and the result will be the covering over and enabling of much more abuse and corruption within the “church” and it will make it easier for Children to be abused and molested.

From a personal perspective: I have really thick skin thanks to the intense and enduring physical, emotional and spiritual abuse I suffered (and watched my family suffer) for many years at the hands, feet, mouth etc by Bob Grenier…however, that my Mom is standing shoulder-to-shoulder with our Abuser and going on offense against me hurts terribly. She sat by and let us be abused when were growing up, rather than protecting us. Now she picks up the sword and goes on the attack against me for not taking all the abuses silently. It’s wrong. It’s heartbreaking.

The Fresno Bee has published an article about the lawsuit here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/10/18/3034687/visalia-pastor-sues-son-over-cyberbullying.html

 Posted by at 9:12 am

  67 Responses to “Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia and Mother sues stepson/son he abused for speaking out publicly about brother’s molestation allegations and for exposing the corruption at his church”

  1. Everyone on this blog who has been following your plight stands with you against such corruption in the church, Alex! It would be great to see those who were eyewitnesses to the accounts you’ve given come forward in solidarity alongside you! I am with you in spirit, brother, along with those who would like to see justice prevail for you and other victims of BG. May the General Public see what kind of a man BG truly is and steer clear of his “church franchise” in order to see this man humbled and his ego handed back to him after having it considerably down-sized.

  2. Thanks Andy

    I believe the many people Bob has hurt and the many people who are witness to Bob’s bad actions will tell the truth when their time comes.

    I’ll be sharing many of the testimonies that have been shared with me on the blog that speak directly to all the things I believe to be true and have stated publicly and called for accountability and action and repentance etc

  3. Alex: The grace of God and your thick skin has allowed you to be strong not only for you, but also for those who have no voice. You are speaking for them. Keep talking, Alex.

  4. BG has totally lost his mind and taken his wife with him I think. If they feel like Alex and the blog shedding light on their lives has made them miserable, they are in for a big surprise re: the emotional and personal toll taking this to court is going to have. The fact finding and rigors of court investigation and testimony is brutal – for victims and perpetrators alike. They’ve just jumped from the frying pan into the fire.

    The whole concept of supposed christians taking others to court – over their reputation being hurt boggles the brain.

    Alex, I hope you will be able to get an attorney soon. Someone who can give you the support you need in this battle. It is more than you need to face alone. Yes, you are smart and capable. But an attorney can be an ally that will help share the stress as you navigate the road before you.

    I also hope BG’s decision results in a financial audit and public disclosure, that he sure didn’t expect taking on this can of unholy worms.

  5. Alex,

    My prayers for your entire family, and that God’s justice will be done in this suit. I find it ironic, that your parents will now hide behind an attorney, in hopes this will come out in their favor.

    These would seem to be both cowerdly & narcissistic traits all in one. Your mother has been conditioned & brainwashed to respond as such. How do I know? Because my mother has been as well. It is a calvary dynamic to supress & keep women silent.

    After confronting my own parents on child abuse (whom I still love) their closing comments were “you do remember good times too right?”. It is always twisted in an egotistical fashion so that the abuser can feel better about themselves. It is also a subliminal form of abuse akin to “we weren’t that bad, remember?”.

    While I pray for the victims to be victorious, I also pray that God uses this to restore your entire family. I pray that at the end of this, the final words that emerge are “It happend, I’m sorry, I love you”.

  6. A final note: It is interesting that the suit is not against the abused…only the abused who ‘talked’. Which is yet, just another form of abuse. I sincerely pray that the current congregants see this dynamic, ‘come out of her’, and warn others.

  7. Alex,

    It is a shame that over all this time your stepfather refused to meet with you and/or others in a church setting and now it has come to this. How he could possibly justify this before other believers is just mind boggling (And just as mind boggling for those who may be accepting or supportive of what he’s doing.) I pray that truth may be served through all these legal proceedings and that it will serve to bring to light issues of child abuse, spiritual abuse, and unaccountable church leaders. I pray that you will be open to God’s leading and guidance as you work through and endure these legal proceedings and all the surrounding issues. God bless.

  8. A light switch went on and I realized why the lawsuit is so vague. They have found themselves in a tenuous position. The outcome of this will potentially bring light to more than just issues affecting them but the movement as a whole. They were in a proverbial Catch 22, a Mexican stand-off of sorts. If the lawsuit was dropped this blog would continue with more and more victims system-wide coming forward and eventually the attention would cause massive scrutiny of the entire movement by the seat-filling-sheep.

    So dropping the lawsuit would not have been an option. However including all of the issues in the suit would not have been an option either because just the fact that those issues exist is potentially damaging. Instead the suit had to be a generic defamation suit to let everyone who has anything to say about all of this know that questioning or challenging will not be tolerated. This would serve to turn people away from this site and in effect shut it down and stop any further questions or analysis from happening.

    There are years worth of blogs besides this one that would lead too many people to ask too many questions movement-wide. Perhaps those bloggers have not seen the type of attention that this blog has or linked themselves to people who questioned ungodly behavior at churches and were similarly sued by those churches and won the suit. That makes this blog very, very very dangerous. This blog stands to potentially correct things movement-wide that other people have tried to correct in vain in the past. So the suit was crucial, because this blog had to be stopped.

    One of Alex’ posts shows that he knew how he would be spun in all of this. What they are forgetting is this: Alex is one person who alleges to have been hurt and came forward with his brothers to say so. There are many other people who have had a lot to say individually movement wide and perhaps they cannot not all get together to say the same things, at the same time and place and have issues resolved, but if no one tries then what happens? What happens when questions do not get asked about things happening in large organizations? What has happened in the secular world? What has already happened in the religious world?

  9. Overly concerned,

    I think you are right. It makes me wonder what the motive of Chuck Smith was a year ago when he and his lawyer decided to meet with Alex. I get the feeling it had nothing to do with helping Alex at all but rather stopping the blog because it was hurting the CC brand.

  10. CYBERBULLYING, HAHAHAHA!

    So in his simple reading of the Bible, did he just skip over Matthew 18? The news article said they’ve kept silent for eight years and, “My son needs to be stopped.” It’s their own fault it dragged on 8 years — where were they when Alex was pleading for them to participate at each step of Matthew 18 that he went through? They’ve violated it twice: not submitting to it when summoned, and not invoking it when “wronged”.

    It seems a no-brainer that if a policeman were accused of child molestation that he would be placed on leave with an independent investigation. And there was already a cover-up with the police report (“losing” it, leaving out the molestation allegations), so it looks like you won’t get a fair hearing in Tulare County. No doubt he has judges and witnesses in his pocketses.

    And sorry if I missed this, but have you heard from or contacted The Movement since your letter to the new regional bishops? Chuck’s silence is endorsement, whether he agrees with a pastor suing his son or not.

    The article sounds like nothing is happening in court until February. What’s your timeframe for the press conference?

    And I would like to echo Once Upon A Time’s advice to get an attorney. Self-representation may give Bob an advantage, and I would hate to see this go against you. Even though you are in the right, winning is not guaranteed, as the Idaho verdict demonstrated. You are so ready for this, and an attorney could prove to be a vital resource.

    God bless you, Alex, and may the Truth be made known.

  11. I should have posted this last night when the Lord placed upon my mind. I believe it is for you:

    Isaiah 41:10
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

  12. i heart sheck @ 10 – “The news article said they’ve kept silent for eight years and, ‘My son needs to be stopped.’”

    What Bob fails to realize, is that following the biblical model will stop his son. Admitting to the issues, and resigning from the office of pastor, as instructed in that book that he reads (Holy Bible) will end ‘this madness in his life’.

    The eight years of silence (non-repentance, non-admittance, non-pastoral removal, continued abuse of spouse & family (control issues, estrangement)) is why they are here.

    Following the biblical model has the potential to save his soul, restore his family, get help for anger & control issues, and eventually be restored to ministry (even if not as a pastor). Nothing but ‘good’ can come from taking a break to fix ‘his own’.

    1 Tim 3:5 comes to mind – “For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church?”

  13. Steve, @ 5

    Alex, he is absolutely correct. What more, those who stay with the abuser and take this type of position is due to trauma bonding.

    Remember, Alex, he is a chameleon who has no choice but to play out the false image he has invented in the minds of others. And that is the image you see stand before the court. Make sure your attorney understand this kind of personality type. It will serve you well. Maybe it would be good to get a couple of experts as well. That would certainly enable the court to see clear through the years of theatrics and deception committed against his victims.

  14. Matthew 10:34-36-”Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. “For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’

    We are living in these days increasingly

  15. My concerns have been with pastor Bob Guaglione at CCDelco. Bob always seems to pulling in the big names to his church but he seems to have a problem recognizing good character. This year it was suppose to be Dinesh D’Souza the president of Kings college to talk about justice in the church this weekend. Dinesh D’Souza just resigned as president. The timing is uncanny.

    Here are Bob Guaglione’s words after someone in Calvary Chapel leadership finally pulled the plug on his speaking engagement:

    “Internet allegations this week arising from an article published in World Magazine have caused suspicion concerning Dinesh ‘s personal life. I have spoken with him several times, and he has informed me that the information is not factual, but he will resign his position as President of The King’s College to clear his name. He has admitted to “an error of judgment,” but not to a moral failure. You can go to his website and read his statement concerning the article for yourself. We both agreed that his speaking at Calvary this weekend would not be in the best interest of our congregation. Dinesh told me he looks forward to rescheduling when this matter is fully resolved.”

    My first question is why would a man resign from his position if there was no guilt? It kind of reminds me of the issue with Ergun Caner that people refuse to admit he ever told a lie but rather just pulpit mis-statements just so that he could keep on being in the spot light, teaching, etc.. without true repentance.

  16. Linda @ 13 – “he is a chameleon who has no choice but to play out the false image he has invented in the minds of others”.

    You have hit the nail on the head. There is no turning back now. Either the chameleon emerges victorious, or the false image will be revealed.

    The false image cannot be revealed, it will destroy his church. Notice closely the phrase I used, it will destroy ‘his church’, it will do nothing to harm God’s church.

    Satan will use every power he can muster, through man’s court, to keep the chameleon disguised. It is ‘not’ in satan’s interest for Alex to win this case. Pray hard.

  17. Overly Concerned @ 8

    You are right on target here.

    I think we had speculated about this before and now you have quite nicely put all in perspective for us all. In my opinion, I believe that CC has put the pressure on BG to take this to court, not because of BG, but because it extends beyond BG and is a perfect move on “Movement” and its leadership to use BG get a court order to keep its victims silent. So, I would imagine that they will help BG with legal fees as well. Too bad, it isn’t the other way around. That is, the CC Movement, leadership does not come to the aid of those who have been abused and victimized instead.

    There is still a much larger body of Christ standing by watching and listening. How or what can you do to help Alex to win this case against him and Mr. Taylor. I know Alex has by way of these injustices done against him and his family, developed “thick skin” but that does not mean we cannot support him in concrete ways as well. That would certainly reduced the load and stress that any court case brings upon a person. He has asked for help, but that doesn’t mean he can’t put it to good use.

  18. correction: “That is, the CC Movement, leadership WOULD COME to the aid of those who have been abused and victimized instead.

    At very least, this would be more in line with God’s will and His heart towards the flock they were told to protect and defend.

  19. Sorry folks, I think my erros has to do with not having the eye glasses that would enable me to catch my typos errors better.

    Correction: “He has “NOT” asked for help, but that doesn’t mean he can’t put it to good use.

  20. Asking Calvary Chapel leadership to protect the flock rather than the wolves in their Midst is like asking Lance “The Fraud” Armstrong to tell the truth about using PED’s

  21. I noticed Bob Grenier’s tweet from yesterday in light of the timing of the lawsuit and blogged about it. This behavior is so typical.

    http://bgbcsurvivors.blogspot.com/2012/10/is-calvary-chapel-visalia-pastor-bob.html

  22. Julie Anne,
    Having sat under and observing Bob Grenier’s role model/teacher for years, I can tell you 100% without a doubt he is tweeting about the lawsuit

    Of course as you already know, Bob heard it audibly and directly from the LORD.

  23. Overly Concerned’s post#8 put into words quite well what is happening.

  24. Jeremy W – All of these types go to the same “Creepy Spiritual Abuse School (CSAS)” that I refer to. Just for the heck of it, I looked at his previous tweet and I see he uploaded a video to Youtube – it’s a sermon on James 4. I listened to about 10-15 minutes of it. If someone listens to it and hears where he discusses vs 11, let me know what minute it starts on and I’ll be sure to update my blog. Look at the these verses below. Doesn’t it make sense that he would be preaching on this at the same time he files a lawsuit?

    James 4:11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[d] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

    I know the pattern because of my former pastor and others like him This stuff consumes them and they project it wherever they can: tweeting, youtube, from the pulpit, etc. They are so sure of themselves because it’s all about them.

    Of course he wouldn’t dare preach on 1 Corinthians 6:6 at a time like this. Nooooooooo

  25. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/dinesh-dsouza-adultery-_n_1972172.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

    D’Souza’s wife, Dixie, is an evangelical, and the family has attended Calvary Chapel, a nondenominational evangelical church in San Diego, for the past 10 years. He has been invited to speak in several churches and colleges, including Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church and Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University.

    Oh, they didn’t sleep together, but they are engaged—it is still adultery passing off another person as your bride to be, when you are already married—even if he has petition for a divorce. It is unbiblical and someone needs to have a serious talk with this man. And if they don’t, then they share in the sin.

    Mr. D’ Sousa, imo you owe President Obama an apology——-while you are repenting and getting right with your wife.

    Mark 10:11

    I really believe that people don’t take God’s Word seriously, nor do they really understand the signifcant of the Cross. And that grieves my heart deeply.

    So just like D’ Sousa shuffling of his feet to minimize the fallout from these “error in judgment,” so it seem to be a ever constant event or mindset coming out from CC with men who call themselves Christians and voices of God’s authority in speaking the “truth?”

  26. Linda,

    I couldn’t agree with you more but Bob Guaglione at CCdelco is already willing to invite Dinesh back just as soon as this little tiny misunderstanding gets cleared up. Yeah, explain to us Bob how you can justify a man being married to his wife and yet being engaged to another younger woman at the same time? Total hypocrisy and you are already going to invite him back as a speaker. Give us all a break.

  27. Andrew,

    That is so disgusting. It is dispictable that they would what, when he divoces his wife, unbiblically, I might add, then marries this girl he spent the night with in the hotel, but “didn”t have sex. What, he repented? Oh really, then why is he now in an adulterous marriage. Oh, the Cross—-hmmmm.

    First of all, what about his wife, CC? Oh, and Scripture, remember it. No, well I do and so does God. So, just keep on passing the bucket around and while you are knee deep in permitting men who are practicing adultery stand in the midst of your congregation, remember you too are now committing adultery against God himself, for telling the people that all is well, instead of beating a path to the foot of Jesus bearing the fruits of repentance.

    Jeremiah 23:9-32

    I Cor 5:4-13
    I Cor 6:1-10

  28. Just read the Fresno Bee article & it doesn’t surprise me that Bob lied through his teeth & I’m sure he will continue to lie.I’m a neighbor of his, but we have never had much to do with Bob or his wife

    .I posted before about hearing the boys screaming from their house while I was working in my backyard.Also my neighbor told me she heard Bob beating on them & them screaming as well.She said that she didn’t like Bob because of the way he treated his boys.

    I know the boys use to visit with one of our neighbors a lot a guy named Jesse don’t know if they told him about the way Bob treated them or not.I know when it was in the paper the first time around he said why now…why did they wait so long to say anything …that was it & I didn’t ask him to explain.

    I’ve seen Bob going to Jesse’s house and another neighbors house whose name is Ron lately with an big envelope wondered what was up…now I’m thinking it has something to do with this court issue.Jesse, Ron & myself are the only original neighbors left that were here when the boys were being raised.Bob won’t come to our house…lets just say he knows how I feel about him & his wife & leave it at that.Hopefully Bob & his wife will get what they deserve sooner than later.

  29. Julie Anne,

    It is really interesting that he picked James 4! Why does no one ever start at the beginning of James’ letter and then work their way to James 4 or work their way past James 4 to really have a clue what James was speaking about! :-) James clearly could not have been schizo or an unrepentant hypocrite or God would not have used him to speak His Word!

    James letter is to the twelve tribes, his Jewish brethren who still wanted to follow the law and weren’t really living like they understood the perfect law of liberty that they had been given in Jesus. It is filled with all kinds of language that could easily be viewed as critical of incorrect behavior and incorrect practices among the twelve tribes and guidance on how to live the right way and even blatant calls to repentance. For example in James 1:21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. OR

    James 2:19-20 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead.

    OR James 3:14-17 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

    OR James 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

    OR James 5:5-6 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

    OR James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

    Uhm… it would seem that the same James who was concerned that his Jewish brethren did not speak evil words about each other was also very concerned about pointing out evil behavior and pointing people in the right direction! Since James was not crazy how do we reconcile this. Someone can pull out a concordance and go through it but this site can be used as a quick illustration. Child abuse and spiritual abuse and spousal abuse and oppression etc. are all wrong, very, very wrong and should be pointed out and have been here on this site. In rare cases where people have drifted on this site and written nasty things about innocent people trapped in the CC system (perhaps even to discredit this site!) …that was evil and wrong and even addressed by some people as being exactly that.

    Give the whole book of James a read. Although he was talking to His Jewish brethren we Gentile Christians can learn so much! :-)

  30. Carol, thank you for speaking out again, you and your family were always nice to be around and get a break from the storm at our home.

    Bob, in the lawsuit, is still trying to pass off their actions as merely “poor parenting” rather than child abuse.

  31. Response from the Fresno Bee article:

    I’m a neighbor of the Grenier’s …The boys are telling the truth & the neighbors that are still living in the neighborhood know it’s the truth as well.There’s nothing wrong with the boys the problem is with his parents that hide behind the church while treating their boys in a horrific manner. Do you recall what the Catholic priests did for years?…. it was quite a scandal.. When these boys were being abused not much was done about child abuse & people just didn’t get involved all that has changed now thank god.I feel really bad now about not calling the police.You never really know what goes on behind closed doors until someone finally speaks up.

  32. Alex, when a parent abuses their child or children, then lie about it, that is not poor parenting. It is a lie and it only leads to further abuse while forcing the child into enduring more abuse.

  33. I am so sad. I can’t believe Bob is doing this. He never once made any attempt to reach out to any of us before it got to this point. The bible means nothing to this evil man. I pray that God finally does something to this servant of Satan. A true wolf in sheeps clothing.

  34. Linda @ 27

    And the irony of this, is that is was supposed to be about Justice in the church. What about justice for Dinesh’s wife?

  35. So, are Bob’s attorneys Christians?
    Someone made a comment about motive of wanting this blog shut down.

    It’s typical of CC protocol to get rid of the “problem people”..kind of like extermination…rather than deal with the situation.

    Why doesn’t he just come on this blog and defend himself and attempt reconciliation?
    I think there can be some good dialogue here.

    “”The suit is seeking monetary damages, but did not cite a specific number, but checked the box “Unlimited”.””

    Seems kind of whimpish to go the worldly route and ask for money.
    Why money??
    Wouldn’t it be enough for him to just get the blog closed down?
    To me, that speaks volumes.

  36. By asking for money, the motive for his actions are revealed.
    He not only wants to silence you, but he wants to make a profit off of it as well.
    Wouldn’t that be akin to blood money?

  37. Andrew,

    Relating back to my own marriage, I feel as though the company of betrayed spouses is growing within the ranks of CC. All god fearing wives being betrayed and then having to stand by to watch our “leadership” assert their leadership over their right to ignore what our husbands have done while enabling them to continue in the pulpit, become a pastor, or just cancel to reschedule a conference for a speaking engagement when they make it allnice and legal? To te wives of Stewart and Denesh, I stand in good company before the Lord who is still on the throne.

  38. Andrew,

    Justice to me is ambigous as the word christian—at least as far as what is and what is not. Those words are used too often by those who parade themselves through the streets upon a white horse acting as though they have the answers to that which they do not. They have their courts and they have their jesters. Their subjects waves to them as they pass by, smiling, believing that they are loved as much as they love them. The men aspire to be like them. And the young girls dream of marrying such a one that is “chosen.” The children play at their feet, while dogs are happy waiting for their portions. All is well in wonderland, but justice and christian remains aloof.

  39. “The next day another conference organizer, Alex McFarland, distressed by D’Souza’s behavior, confronted him in a telephone conversation. D’Souza admitted he shared a room with his fiancée but said “nothing happened.” When I called D’Souza, he confirmed that he was indeed engaged to Joseph, but did not explain how he could be engaged to one woman while still married to another. When asked when he had filed for divorce from his wife, Dixie, D’Souza answered, “Recently.”

    According to San Diego County (Calif.) Superior Court records, D’Souza filed for divorce only on Oct. 4, the day I spoke with him. Under California law, that starts the clock on a six-month waiting period for divorce. D’Souza on Oct. 4 told me his marriage was “over,” said he “is sure Denise is the one for me,” and said he had “done nothing wrong.”

    http://www.worldmag.com/2012/10/king_s_crisis#.UID0RLNby04.facebook

    So “Christian” men take their wives to court to sue for an unbiblical divorce and CC stands by until all the dust settles, then make it business as usual. The fact that this man can say that he had done nothing wrong is damnable. It takes time to develop a relationship with someone other than your REAL wife. It takes effort and it is intentional. It is calculated and it is ever so deceptive. Man’s law permit these things to go on, but this does not supecede God’s Word.

    Proverbs 30:20
    King James Version (KJV)

    20 Such is the way of an adulterous woman [man]; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

    Emphasis: mine

    In other words, men can play the part of the whore. I would bet that if it was me that betrayed my husband, or Dixie had betrayed her husband, or Kathy had betrayed her husband, CC leadership would not treat any of us with the same indifference of our adulterous choices, that our husbands has been treated regarding this violent act committed against us and our marriages.

    But hey, there’s plenty of brothers to go around, just pick another one—you’ll be just fine.

    Marriages don’t fail—they are torn asumder. For love is a choice, not a four letter word.

  40. Alex and all who post:

    Earlier today when I read this all I could do was keep the tears from my eyes. When I read about a father and mother who would sue their children and still claim to love God I was speechless.

    Alex I can only say to you is this, “I’m so sorry the two people who are supposed to love, care, teach and nourish you have done these things to you.”

    Speechless again, sorry.

  41. Hope all is well Alex? Just a question for the “get over it, and move on crowd.” Or the Pastor Smith has no control over other CC Churches I ask. If Mr. Grenier had been Reformed, an Egalitarian, held to baptismal regeneration, ever been a catholic priest, held to the validity of the theory of evolution, was non-dispensationalist , did not believe in inerrancy (CS version of said biblical view), did not teach verse by verse even would he still be in his church? Of course not. If he held to a different form of the doctrinal points or CC distinctive, would he still be there? Gravity would fail before that happened he would have been gone, the left foot of fellowship, the don’t let the door hit you on the way out kind of gone. But of course people would pray for him. Gag. Teachers and pastors get fired all the time from institutions over these non issues, and they are non issues compared to what is going on here. That is the point.

  42. Alex, I’m so sorry this is happening to you … again and again and again …
    May God use this round as the final blow to the enemy using Bob Grenier to bring destruction.

    Let’s see …
    1. Bob NEVER meets with Alex to attempt to resolve these issues.
    2. Bob sues his own step-son, the son of his wife.
    3. Bob gets his wife to sue her own son.
    4. Bob wants money, indefinite amount.

    WOW, WOW, WOW … what judge won’t see right through Bob from the beginning? Alex, this is yours to lose. I pray God provides you with the means and the right choice of a lawyer. Even if you are the best at defending yourself, it just doesn’t work that way in the courts.

  43. Can we get a mole inside of CCV … near the financial info? Seems to me that if we could follow the money that we’d know what role Chuck Smith is taking in all of this. Chuck could very well be bank rolling this.

    Chuck is stuck too.
    Chuck can’t get rid of Bob Grenier because he’d have to admit he was wrong not to do so in the past.
    Chuck can’t get rid of Alex, because Alex is telling the truth and isn’t afraid of Chuck.
    Chuck may have encouraged Bob to duke it out in court to see who is left standing?
    Chuck may actually be throwing Bob under the bus just to get rid of him and the lightening rod of bad Calvary Chapel press he is.
    Worst of all, Chuck could be so blinded that he actually believes the story he tells himself so he can sleep at night … namely, that Bob is just a misguided dad and that Alex is a yappy dog.

  44. In response to post #24

    James 4:11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another

    Slander – in which someone tells one or more persons an UNTRUTH about another

    This blog isn’t slander at all. Alex is sharing his experience, which we all have a right to know about.

    Why would you want to dedicate thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of service to a church whose pastor is a known liar and a alleged child abuser?

    Alex has been more than fair with Bob Greinier. Of course, none of us know if he’s telling the truth or not, but Alex stuck by his facts, while Bob has been maliciously attacking his son. The only fault I see with this blog is Alex has been relentless, but I can understand why, especially with his step brother’s testimony of sexual abuse.

    Was the book of Corinithians slandering? No. Absolutely not. Paul was admonishing a church that was out of line of what Jesus wanted. He had to say something. He supported his admonishments with facts.

    People need to break out of the sheep-mold, I’d say more an ostrich burying their head in the sand, and not just blindly follow what they are told, just because it’s “church”. Not only that, BOB HAS BEEN CAUGHT LYING, so many times. There is no doubt that he lied. Why would anyone want this man as their pastor?

    what grieves me the most is Chuck Smith’s action (or rather non-action) in all this and the general attitude CC Churches have towards Alex. I’ve admired CS for years, but his recent actions have really perplexed me, and I wonder if his “brand” has finally outweighed his service to Jesus. It was bound to happen…. I just wished he died before it ever did.

  45. Linda @ 39

    I agree. This is what concerns me so much about Bob Guaglione at CCDelco. He is willing to invite D’Souza back to speak at the church just as soon as the dust settles but he will excommunicate people from his church for nothing more than challenging his unglodly visions. By the way, he didn’t cancel the invitation for D’Souza to speak, he only postponed it.

  46. My heart has been so heavy the last couple of days. I feel as though these men stood in front of Edna and I and are taking the shots that were intended for us. I’m relieved that I am not listed, but I still feel like I need to be there to somehow support them. On Monday I will see what it takes to open an account to help with expenses. I will let you know where you can send money to show your support!

  47. Tina – - – Paypal is one of the easiest ways for people to quickly send $$. When the account is all set up, Paypal has the html codes so that Alex and put the “widget” here on the site. People can easily click on the Paypal logo and send $$. If you get it set up, you will need to send Alex the html code. Paypal has some sort of tutorial or instructions. WordPress – Alex’s hosting site – may offer help as well.

    Changing subjects – when I received my subpoena, there was a 10-day timeframe from receipt of the subpoena for me to notify the court. The first few days after receiving a lawsuit are pretty hectic emotionally and a bit nerve-racking sorting through the legalese. I would encourage readers here to pray for clear direction for both Alex and Tim as they navigate these foreign waters. If they are searching for an attorney, that alone is a daunting process.

    If anyone has leads on CA attorneys experienced in cyberbullying, defamation, libel – - that might be helpful as well.

  48. HI guys, thanks for the support and encouragement. Yesterday sucked, but time to get up off the mat and get to work on all this.

    I NEED HELP. One thing I’m being humbled in, I’m not superman and this really is a David vs. Goliath.

    I’ll open the paypal account hopefully today along with an article to ask for help from not only folks who will help me fight this but also help from a good attorney who is willing to help on contingency or partial-contingency basis.

    There are a couple of easier ways out of this w/o fighting it out all the way, but I don’t want to go with those options unless I have to b/c I think that’s what Bob wants so he can say it’s all lies and save face and keep dodging accountability for his actions as a public figure in positions of trust as pastor and chaplain etc etc.

  49. Tina…the idea for a support fund is very kind. There has been at least 80,000 visits to this blog this year. I would imagine that most who are active followers of this blog believe the accounts they read here. It would be an incredible show of support if those who believed the boy’s account would give generously to defray court costs. Mostly it would be a show of moral support, and I guarantee that Paul, Alex, and Geoff will receive a lop-sided landslide of support compared to Bob Grenier.

    Bob Grenier is not only disliked by hundreds of Visalians, he is literally hated. He is going to see the reality of that in the near future. BG is the poster child for abuse and bullying, and there is no cyber equivalent.

    What Alex is going to be able to present in court, under oath, is going to be some of the most disappointing, most disillusioning, and damning testimony that anyone has ever heard in relation to a pastor. I do not believe that good men like Ray Replogle, Floyd Westbrook, and a score of others in the local community will be able to allow themselves to associate with a person like Bob Grenier when the facts are established.

    I only hear things second hand but those who are eye-witnesses must step up now to avoid a miscarriage of justice to occur. This is a call to all the honorable men and women, who believe God will not tolerate evil in the leadership of his church, and believe it is our duty as believers to stand up for, and with, the oppressed and harassed.

    Will you risk a little to stand with Alex? Will you voice your outrage at such a despicable display of uncharitable action from a ‘man of God’? The time is now. No more litany of Bible verses. No more wasted words. Now is the time for decision and pro-active movement. What will be your choice?

  50. I am in total agreement with Wide Awake. If good people will not come forward and corroborate Alex’s story in court, then it is all the easier for CC’s hired $gun$ to argue that it’s all just hearsay and therefore inadmissible. Years ago I read a story about a Lutheran church in Germany which knew full well that the cattle cars passing by the rear of their church were packed with Jews headed east to the exterminaion centers. At war’s end they still tried to claim that they knew nothing.

    Those who may be reading this and are in a position to help Alex, don’t be like the good Germans who knew nothing. When good people do nothing evil men triumph. Stand with Alex. Stand and be true.

  51. Bob never told me what he wanted to send me, other than, “correspondence”. He threatened to get my address by other means, but my wife checks the mail every day, and still, nothing.

    So unless he is responsible for my Comcast bill going up every month, still not sure what “correspondence” is.

  52. Okay, this is what I’m thinking — a way that we can help Alex and Tim. Actually, a cou;e of ways:

    1) Whatever monies you have set aside for tithes/offering for a week or even a month, or more, you would lift that up in prayer about sending to the fund that is being set up by PayPal.

    2) Take something you own and sell it or pawn it and send it to this fund.

    3) Take the money of one Christmas gift and send it to this fund.

    5) Purchase gift coupons for food, children gifts, gas, utilities, and other daily living expenses and send to Alex per his instructions. It’s getting cold out there and they will need pay a higher bill to keep them all warm.

    Make sure these families have a Christmas and don’t forget to send them a card. They need us. You can even make your own card/envelope, but you will need to buy the stamp (smile).

    6) Pray fervently and if able, fast at least one day per week.

    7) Keep up the encouragement on this site or by email.

    8) Let others know about this and ask them to help as well.

    9) Ask your media if they are aware of this case. Be sure to have basic information on hand, so they can track to provide media coverage.

    10) Whatever, you do, do not abandoned them. Remember, this case is as much for them, as it is for everyone who have, who is, who will be harmed.

  53. It’s been a long time since I’ve read or commented on this blog.

    The fact that Alex was unwilling to let this thing die tells me he is either a complete nut or he is telling the truth.

    I believe he is telling the truth…… many of you do too, and it is time to put our money where our mouth is. I don’t have much to spare, but I will contribute what I can… and will continue to pray for all those involved…….

  54. Thanks “undercover”…very much appreciated.

    I’m not crazy, I’m right and this is righteous. But, Camp Bob has tried to smear me as crazy often times, which is why I use snark and humor like the Crazy Guy pics they put in the lawsuit. It’s my way of mocking that accusation.

    I am telling the truth, so are the others….and it’s a mountain of stuff. The crazy part is that Bob has gotten away with this garbage for so long, which really illustrates the Problem.

  55. The lawsuit is a desperation move to silence me, scare me into silence and to scare others from talking. It’s not going to work.

  56. It’s daunting, no doubt, but I reject fear as from the enemy, I simply refuse to give into it. I trust the Lord, it is what it is and whatever happens happens. I didn’t come all this way to back down now.

    I’ll fight it and keep pushing and keep speaking out.

  57. Alex,

    From my house to yours: 2 Timothy 1:6-10
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

    For such a time like this, Alex: You know the truth. You were there. You are clear and no stronghold of the enemy shall defeat God’s purpose to enable you to bring this out in the open. May others rise up with you and after you. May the spirit of boldness be with you as the days wear on. May you, precious brother in the Lord go forth to speak the truth and to bring these things to convict and humble all who sought to keep it quiet, thereby, grieving the Holy Spirit and bringing dishonor to His Holy name.

    Shalom, in Jesus

  58. Thanks Linda, very encouraging :-)

  59. WOW!!!!! If this all true, it’s a SAD shame. What people need to remember, is in times like this, we MUST NOT stray away from God’s word. We are all human, and we MUST not stop walking with the Lord because of something like this. We need to pray that the truth be revealed, and we MUST keep our focus on the Lord. It’s a VERY unfortunate thing, when things like this take place. But the MAIN thing that we must not do, is lose our Faith in the Lord. Stuff like this happens (Unfortunately), but we CANNOT blame the church, and we CANNOT walk away from the Lord. I get so hurt over things like this because there are SO MANY lives that give up on God because of this…… PLEASE DO NOT take your focus off of Jesus. I don’t attend the CC church, but my prayers go out to both sides of the family. We as Christians must lift both sides up in prayer, not condemn anyone, and we MUST prayer that the truth will come out.

  60. Matt,

    “Stuff like this happens (Unfortunately), but we CANNOT blame the church, and we CANNOT walk away from the Lord.”

    We have not taken our eyes off of Jesus nor have we lost our faith. Holding these to an account is not synonymous with one another, but rather is a fruit of holding to our faith and being strengthen by the Holy Spirit to enable us to do so.

    1 Corinthians 5
    King James Version (KJV)

    5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.

    2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

    3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

    4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

    7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

    8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

    10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

    11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

    13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

  61. this is from an atheist website

    “Skeptic” wrote:

    “This pastor doesn’t give a damn about obeying the bible. He is attacking his own family (a man who doesn’t care for his family is worse than a heathen) and he is destroying the testimony of Christianity by going to the secular courts. In this guy’s version of the bible, the prodigal son’s dad would have sued the son for emotional distress and for monetary reimbursement.”

  62. [...] responses yet. But, with the upcoming Sovereign Grace Ministries [SGM] class action lawsuit and the Calvary Chapel/Grenier defamation lawsuit – which is due to start up February 19 – and other antics of “malignant ministries,” I [...]

  63. [...] Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia and Mother sues stepson/son he abused for speaking out … Here are a couple key paragraphs: [...]

  64. Alex:

    I’m not in a position where I can judge BG and your mother and neither are others who have written in a vengeful tone. I do know that I have had an aversion to BG’s preaching for many years, and will immediately turn off our local Christian radio station whenever he comes on.” However, at this point, I honestly hope you and your brother are wrong, but I strongly suspect you are right. Either way, I’m praying that the truth will come out and that the whole matter will be dealt with wisely. Jesus said: “But nothing gets covered up that won’t be revealed, or hidden that won’t be made known.” Luke 12:2. So, if BG did what you have alleged, there will come a day of reckoning.. It would be far better to have it come out now and be repented of than for BG to take such sin before the Lord. I Corinthians 3:13-16 warns that Christians who build their ministries wrongly will have their works burned up, and I want to suggest to you that the most important work a Christian can do is to build godly character inside themselves. In the case of those who fail in that, it’s likely that everything they’ve built will be burned up — very painfully and not instantaneously. God will not allow sin in any form into His Heaven.

    I also don’t know if you and Paul are Christians or not, but I hope you are. Because, if what you’re saying is true, then you need to forgive from the heart, not for BG and your mom’s sake, but for your own. On the other hand, if you’re telling the truth, BG’s lawsuit will be stopped and you will get your day in court. At that point, I hope the whole truth comes out and that the matter will be dealt with wisely and with the whole force of law.

    God bless you

  65. Doug, Alex is not asking people to believe him just because he says the abuse took place; he’s been calling for an investigation. One he’s never been able to get.

    First, Alex asked to meet with Bob Grenier, but was refused.
    Then he met with the elders, who would not do anything.
    Then he met with board members, who would not do anything.
    Then he spoke with CCOF, the part of CC that left people with the impression that they were the accountability arm of CC; but they did nothing.
    Then he met with Chuck Smith, who said he believed him, but Chuck didn’t just do nothing, he instead visited Bob Grenier and showed his support for him, pictures of smiles and arm around Bob.
    Then he called upon other CC pastors who are in affiliation with Bob, as well as work together with Bob. Silence, refusal, and the claim that they are too independent to even look into the charges of abuse.
    Without any avenue to call Bob to account, and with ever growing files of stories from others who’ve been spiritually abused by Bob (along with many similar stories throughout Calvary Chapel and other authoritarian churches) Alex turned to blogging. It’s a public cry to be heard, to warn the church, and to protect others.

    Alex is simply following the mandate in Scripture to first try to confront the sin, get the leaders to investigate the veracity of the accusation, and if there isn’t any repentance, remove the leader in clear biblical unrepentant sin. But CC is designed such that there is no one who thinks it’s there responsibility to even check into the accusations, which are being made by many … not just Alex. There is enough corroborating evidence/witnesses that this is not just a “he said, he said” scenario. You can receive an accusation against an elder if there are 2 or 3 witnesses.

    I know when you read here you might not like the tone sometimes, but the abused are not the ones on trial here. I hope you can cut some slack for the abused when you consider the absolute frustration they feel by being abused, seeing it’s systemic, and not having any avenue by which to address the situation, if only to have an investigation to see if what they are saying is true. In the meantime, they are continually being beat up by people putting them on trial and turning the focus on them, as if that would negate what the abuser/s have done. I hope readers can understand and have compassion.

  66. Grateful:

    Obviously, you didn’t understand what I wrote. I weighed into the conversation as a representative of the Body of Christ, not Calvary Chapel. I do not go to Calvary Chapel but attend a church that practices biblical discipline in a loving way. I intimated that I had (and have) no firsthand knowledge of the events and said that I hoped the allegations weren’t true, but if they were they needed to be prosecuted to the absolute limit. I agree with you that Alex seems to be pursuing the revelation of truth in the best way possible as it a.) seems that Calvary Chapel has abandoned the church disciplinary procedure that Jesus commanded (not recommended) and b.) by their recalcitrant attitude have added to the problem rather than solving it.

    However, in reading a few of the comments, I saw bitterness and anger and no forgiveness. Jesus told us to forgive. In other places, he also told us not to judge or we will be judged with the same judgment we’ve used. Alex is to be commended for the tone of the things he’s written. He seems to have pursued this thing in a Christian manner, and if what he says is true (and I have no reason to believe it’s not) then I’m on his side. Regardless, I will continue to pray for him.

    Doug

  67. @ Doug

    Excellent comments. I understood you . Good balanced view of what is at stake here. The tone does push the limits at times. Understandable when you hear the full back story of what they experienced. Some can testify that the tone has been far worst from those you would expect grace from.

    It’s all out there now. People like you can read and decide for themselves. It is an appaling story, and no pastor and church leadership should have ever allowed it to go this far. There is obvious discontent, and for good reason, and godly men should be more sensitive to this if they really care about justice within the Kingdom of God. Now by going public, it forces the Church to consider its character as perceived by those outside the church. From all recent polls, it is not a favorable view, and that should concern us to take sin seriously, especially sin in the lives of our very public church leaders.

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