Aug 062012

Our friends over at the have unknowingly illustrated a point I’ve been trying to make for a very long time…whether they realize it or not (not Michael and some others, but a big chunk of that Group).

I do not agree that discussing things from the PhxP that concern me are “bullying”…anymore than those discussing me and calling me names over there without my ability to respond is “bullying”….no matter how much some of them cry foul.

“Way Too Close”, a self-reported CC insider puts it well here:

“Way Too Closesays:

Gladly, Reuben is not the problem. I’m sorry if anyone perceives my ramblings as placing fault, blame or malice upon Reuben or Michael.

Simply: I wish to express that Michael and Reuben should act as a Judge on this matter. Our dear brother, as sad as this is… violated the trust and care for other relationships on this blog. Therefore, in order to preserve the foundational principles for which this blog exist, the brother should be banned. By all means, maintain a relationship if you already have one. But this blog will be a much safer place without him, rather than with him. Each of us weep about the turmoil that he has faced. His story has been told. We will wait for God to act upon it.

…in love”

I agree…and I’ve told Michael such. Ban me. Give me justice. Kick me out of your Movement…I mean blog community. I am a bad bad boy. My words and actions “hurt” people and so many folks over there are personally offended…and I just won’t change no matter how much I deny, deflect or say I’m a “changed” man.

…sound familiar? You idiots don’t realize I’m exampling what many of you called “not abuse” and argued such many times.

Calvary Chapel Leadership TOLERATES and ENABLES abusive Leaders. Many Calvary Chapel Senior Pastors are “Abusers” by the defintion being used on the by the so-called “good” CC pastors to label me.

They want blood! They want JUSTICE! BAN BAN BAN HIM! BAN THE ABUSER!

Yes. I agree.

Now go and do likewise in YOUR CALVARY CHAPEL MOVEMENT.

…or take your own advice and Chuck Smith’s advice and “don’t be bitter, forgive, let it go, move on, leave it to the Lord, let God deal with it, and GET A LIFE!”…or you could report me to CCOF and get zero response and zero recourse.


 Posted by at 3:15 pm

  62 Responses to “Self-reported CC insider sheds more light on the CC Dynamic and point we are trying to make”

  1. yuppers (in kansas venacular)

  2. Steve Wright, what do you think “Link-a-thon” is that does all the time? They copy stuff from other sites and then you guys argue about it, thrash it, affirm it etc etc.

  3. The “good” Calvary Chapel guys have finally found the courage and the resolve and the time to PUBLICLY call for me being KICKED OUT of their Movement…err Blog.

    Wow, I thought they weren’t in the business of doing that.

  4. like the final scene of the wizard of oz, it’s the same old spin used over and over again by cc loyalist who demonize those who dare get too close to the cc curtain of truth and discover a frightened, insecure, power hungry, charlatan trying to keep the image of cc alive.

    how ironic that the blind mob join in the deception like most in oz, yet it was a dog (toto) who pulled the curtain away…

    “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain…”

  5. Yep, a “Yappy Little Dog” did pull away the Curtain LOL. Good point Guru!

  6. exactly!

  7. Alex,

    That “Yappy little dog” title always makes me laugh!
    And Rambo was his name 🙂

  8. Why doesn’t anyone tell “once a cc guru” to use his real name? What is he hiding? Why doesn’t he want to own his statements? How do we know he isn’t just making things up? How do we know if he has ever really even been in a CC.

    Just some of the question I get from you guys, but who refuse to hold the same to those who walk in lock step with Alex.

    Guru, come out from behind you lie!

  9. Oh, shut up you old gasbag.

    You sound like the unhappiest asshole onplanet earth.

  10. MLD/Gene, I have more of a beef with guys like Steve Wright who hide behind anonymity when saying they really care about the abused in CC over there. I don’t mind a Grendal Hanks using a guitar symbol or a psuedonym or even a John Shaffer as “A Believer”…but the guys like Ron Arbaugh “Fyi” and Tom Stipe “Pastor, Pastor” etc do kind of tick me off.

    If they are so concerned about the abused, they should weigh the evidence and testimonies and make a right judgment JUST LIKE WAY TOO CLOSE recommends to Michael about me….and then they should PUBLICLY rebuke both Chuck Smith and Bob Grenier for lying and for being abusive.

    Instead they are hypocrites and not men of conviction IMO.

    1 Timothy 5:19-22

  11. What the so-called “good” CC guys prove is that the Bible really doesn’t mean much and that it’s all about “loyalty” to a Brand and a god in the form of Chuck Smith.

  12. ok, gene, i will come “out of the closet” when chuck smith repents…i promise!

  13. Reuben is a good guy.

    Very fair assessment IMO.

  14. good but weak imo

  15. guru lies and hides behind his moniker!!

    Alex is a fool – look, someone posts on the PP and calls themselves a “CC insider” and he believes them no questions asked. Such foolery.

    This is the kind of investigative skills Alex has.

  16. Kim,
    “Oh, shut up you old gasbag.”

    Now that was a good one – Ouch, I don’t think I can recover.

  17. I bet your wife makes you get online so she doesn’t have to listen to the crap you spew around the clock, Gene.

  18. How old are youy, Gene?

    Old enough to know better and close enough to the end of your life that you shouldn’t be wasting your time like this.

    You are like this at PP and here too, I see.

    You unhappy, bitter old man.

  19. Kim ROTFLOL! 😆

    MLD, I know who “Way Too Close” is…I can out them if you’d like 🙂

  20. Kim, MLD/Gene’s in his 60’s, but he doesn’t look a day over 80.

  21. Oy vey, all of these old comments are just driving me nuts.

    But just remember for most of you, these comment apply to your mom and dad also.

    Kim, is your Dad an old gasbag?

  22. alex,
    it is strange that they keep the wagons circled over there the last couple of days only by the self ‘love-in’ of their ‘community’ or worship of the blog master and by their unified ‘malignment’ (yes, gene, i can use that word too) of you without your ability to defend or answer back for yourself.

    hitler needed a punching bag to unify the country against too… any guesses who Gene?

  23. Kim….You made my day! Glad I took a vacation day…

  24. You’re a special case, Gene.

    How can you ponticate for so long about so little?

  25. Kim,
    I learned from Alex.

  26. MLD/Gene, you haven’t learned anything…you were just as big a jerk when I first came on the PhxP over three years ago.

    You and Grendal were in a MAJOR fight and I had to step in and make peace between you two love birds. He called you all sorts of names as you had been your typical self.

  27. alex,

    i’m thinking they sent gene over here to keep him away from them… “oh sure, you could really help us out by defending us on CCA. you go, buddy! (really, just go…)

  28. but seriously folks, wifey’s gonna be home soon and i gotta get ready.

  29. Alex, this is what happens.

    If you are not there, they turn on each other! Can set a watch by it.

    It’s a fairly viscious group, for being all Christians and pastors and everything.

  30. Alex,
    The one thing you have never done, is make peace – anywhere!

  31. So, back to the idea that you guys don’t really believe what you say – has anyone made plans to picket their local CC this coming weekend? – or are the children who remain in harms way, because of Chuck Smith not worth it?

    Has anyone taken the challenge to save the children from this monster???

    Again, this is a put up or shut up moment.

  32. K. I’m putting up. Picket is the seminal test. Do you beleive that Wilson Pickett should be in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame for recording “Midnight Hour?”

  33. Hey MLD, No offense but Kim is taking you to the wood shed

  34. MLD Said:

    “So, back to the idea that you guys don’t really believe what you say – has anyone made plans to picket their local CC this coming weekend? – or are the children who remain in harms way, because of Chuck Smith not worth it?

    Has anyone taken the challenge to save the children from this monster???

    Again, this is a put up or shut up moment.’

    I already have for different reasons last month and I plan on doing so again at my local CC

  35. you first Gene, Gene, the Dancin’ Machine!!

    you’re just not being honest in this challenge… not going to fall for another ‘trap’
    enjoy your day!

  36. MiC

    What’s wth the I>U advertisement video?

  37. hannah,
    what advert video? i’m not undersatnding what you said.

  38. hannah
    please help me out here. what adverstising video are you talking about? i wasn’t aware i had one.

  39. On the 2nd page of your post, after the end it has a youtube ad. Maybe you cant see it?
    Some kid with a website. I watched it but was distracted so didnt give it my full attention.

  40. I actually thought it may be you(of course I dont know you) but then I saw it was an ad!

  41. OK…now it’s a Cozy Shack bread pudding mix ad!!
    I have never seen this on blogs..

  42. hannah,
    interesting. i didn’t realize. thanks for pointing it out. i didn’t know there were ads auto added on my blog posts? i don’t get any money….. hey!! i need to get paid!! Just kidding 🙂
    thx again

  43. Yes, you do need to get paid! And you never know what kind of ads they will be, though I am sure nothing but rated “G”!

    Did you see it on your end?
    BTW, I like the idea of TV Detox though my problem is not TV but computer!

  44. nope, i still don’t see it. signed out of wp, didnt see it. signed back in..

    tv detox is great. B says I should PurposefulPruning detox. may try it … next month. 🙂

  45. Gene, why are you still using the name of the Jew hater, Martin Luther?

  46. Doug, you keep digging your ignorance hole deeper.

    Show me one person in the 400 yrs before Hitler who ever accused Luther of being a Jew hater? Show me any Jews before the 20th century who wrote about Luther being a Jew hater?

    But, I guess you believe Hitler before you believe history.

  47. “Has anyone taken the challenge to save the children from this monster???”

    See, I guess it’s all talk no action.

    Come on folks – protest, let the real world – not cyberspace see your anger.

  48. MLD wrote “Show me one person in the 400 yrs before Hitler who ever accused Luther of being a Jew hater? ”

    So, Hitler isn’t enough for you? LOL. You sure are a piece of work…

  49. The prevailing view among historians is that his anti-Jewish rhetoric contributed significantly to the development of antisemitism in Germany and in the 1930s and 1940s provided an ideal foundation for the Nazi Party’s attacks on Jews Reinhold Lewin writes that “whoever wrote against the Jews for whatever reason believed he had the right to justify himself by triumphantly referring to Luther.”

    Gene’s hero/namesake…

  50. LOL Gene. Most of the founders of this country believed in slavery also wrongly thinking it had Scriptural grounding.

    Against the backdrop of antisemitism that denominated centuries culminating in the final solution, your hero is just one more villain albeit a very important one because he provided a large part of the intellectual foundation for numerous mass murders.

    To deny Luther’s role in the campaigns against the Jews through the centuries is to give a pass to a villain. Sad, but not a surprise – coming from you…

  51. Gene, I think you may have a point. Perhaps we need to go to our local LCMS churches and warn them about the antisemitic foundations of their faith. Anyone want to join me? I’ll make up some flyers.

  52. Hey Gene. Show me one writer before Einstein who promoted the theory of relativity…

    Only old ideas are valid, right? Since people from the time of Haman (and much earlier) wanted to exterminate the Jews, Luther included, that must make it automatically right, too?

    Gene, that’s a reverse chronological snobbery…

  53. Is PP down???

    Another swan song???

    I’m going to have to update my BLOG.

  54. So Doug, what you have said above is that you use Hitler as your primary lense in which to interpret history. Good one!.
    Hitler also quoted some choice verses from the book og John – so your angle is that the Holy Spirit was an anti semite – another good one.

    But you could not produce a single writing in the 400 yrs following Luther that said “ya know, this guy may have been anti semitic.”

    Did you find any laws that were passed in Saxony after Luther, calling for the burning of Jewish villages? How about calls for the jailing of Jews?

    So, the greatest scholar you could find on Luther’s writings is Hitler?

  55. Martin Luther quote “In brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule — if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safe-conduct, or communion with us…. With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to cleanse and exonerate my conscience.”
    Martin Luther, On the Jews and Their Lies”

  56. MLD – Luther is the primary source. What he called for resulted in centuries of persecution culminating in the deaths of millions of Jews in the holocaust.

  57. Doug, ya, no real defense for Luther’s anti-semitism. Luther hated them Jews, no doubt. Even the Lutheran Church seems to acknowledge that those writings were seriously wrong and serious error on Luther’s part.

    Can’t really spin “On the Jews and Their Lies” any way other than Luther was off the rails there and way off the Reservation.

    And, unfortunately, there seems to be enough historical evidence in Hitler’s documentation that Luther was an influence and used as a justification for the holocaust. Sad, but unfortunately seems to be true.

    The Lutheran establishment has been right to denounce Luther’s anti-semitism and right to not repeat it or allow it to be part of their dogma and practice.

    Got to call a spade a spade, Luther was dead wrong on that part of his belief system.

  58. So when Hitler quoted Jesus’ words in John about the Jews, then in the same way Jesus is the anti semite??? Jesus is the source of Hitler’s actions???

    See, the 2 of you do not have the balls to blame Jesus… well I don’t know, I have heard the both of you say some pretty outrageous things over the years just to prove the “I hate Chuck Smith”

    Yes, now that I think about it, you would throw Jesus under the bus to prove a point.

    It just shows how far hate will go – Hitler is not to blame for what he did. If he had not read Luther, he would have loved the Jews. This is the same rational – If Bob G had not come under Chuck Smith, he would have been a good little boy.

    Hate has blinded you guys. However, if Alex had not come under the spell of Doug, he would be a good little boy.

  59. I don’t hate Chuck Smith, I just want him to quit lying, use the authority and control he has in Calvary Chapel to bring some much needed church discipline. He should also come clean about his sin many years ago which is disqualifying so the public is informed and can decide for themselves if they should continue to follow his Movement or not.

    Lying to the folks isn’t righteous.

  60. Well that was an interesting 30-45 minutes of reading through all the comments punching each other back and forth and trying to get one up on the other. I have to say people, it took my a while to figure what the point was in all of this.

    It really sound like sitting among those who are in the world. Now the information about Luther and his position toward the Jews was refreshing as I am Jew and Christian and being so knew about this a very long time ago. Matter of fact, the first time I heard this information after coming to Christ was from Chuck Missler, back in the late 70’s. Wondering if anyone is also aware of his sentiments towards the female gender. He did a lot of good in nailing the edicts on the doors, but he fell terribly short and caused a lot of harm in these 2 areas relating to Jews and the females.

    Alex, I liked your last comment about not being hateful towards Chuck Smith and the body of believers at the CC. For those who accuse a person who has been or is being abused, please understand it has taken a lot for each to work through what we believe is taught in scripture in handling these varied issues, yet cast out, and made out to be the bad girl or guy instead. We loved and trusted the church and its leader as adults and as children to do the right thing to protect us and to enable us to dwell side by side with each other in peace and safety. That did not happen-instead, some of us have been cast out, villified, called more names than I care to repeat, and even accused of not being Christian when in truth we are and that is why we don’t stop in trying to bring this to the awareness of others and to seek out fellowship among those who have shared similar experiences.

    There were some comments about standing outside of CC and picket them. I not exactly sure what this is in reference to, but it does sound like a challenge to those on this blog. Personally, I don’t believe picketing would be an effective action to gain much support, but more importantly to call to an account and to work towards establishing a scripturally structured leadership, nor to institute church discipline among the leadership and congregants alike. Of course, there would also need to be a recognize membership as well.

    I do believe that petitions are a very positve venue to work towards these things, however.

    Anyway, not sure what the topic was except to throw the ball back and forth and really, people——–for what purpose was this all about. Please don’t take this as an offense. That’s not where my heart is—-I think I was surprised after all this time reading and contributing to this blogsite —- one that I believe others can be lifted up, supported, while also educated and informed. This time around, it just sounded too much like a lot of sarcasm which is not helpful at all. By the way, sarcasm means: tearing of the flesh.

  61. One other thought: Why couldn’t the signed petition be nailed to the doors of each Calvry Chapel? For the love of Christ and for the sake of His people.

  62. One other thought: Why couldn’t the signed petition be nailed to the doors of each Calvary Chapel? For the love of Christ and for the sake of His people.

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