Jul 102010
 

Cult-like counseling causes damage to the Church Body and should not be tolerated.

“Cult” is certainly a loaded word. The title conjures powerful connotations and apprehension and should never be used lightly when describing a religious group or a religious leader.

However, when the shoe fits…it is an important word. A word of caution and a word of powerful warning.

The dictionary defines Cult this way: A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

For years, I and my brothers and others have personally witnessed many cult-like tendencies and practices employed by Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia and his close surrogates. The examples are grotesque, they turn my stomach. Following are two terrible examples and I share them so you may learn…take warning…and not allow these things to happen in your church.

“I don’t know how much Paul has told you about our family’s story (the XXXXXX)  but here is the short version.  My mom came to them about going to the police to turn my stepdad in for finally admitting to her that he had molested me since I was 8 years old and Bob told her to keep it quiet, never to go to the police and that the only counseling she would receive was marriage counseling and that NO ONE wanted to even hear what I had to say!  When she asked if they were mandated reporters they were furious.  Which is disgusting since they knew that my underage sisters were all still living in that house!

Anyway, a series of rude agressive phone calls followed (pratically threatening my mom to keep her mouth shut) and when my mom and I did go to the police, Bob called my husband and told him he needed to get me away from my mom, that she was acting crazy and it was so wrong that she was taking me to the police.  On an interesting and sad side note, my husband went to Bob’s house that night and said these words to him “If you found out someone had abused your sons, wouldn’t you go straight to the police??”  I guess we know now that his answer would be “No way!!”

So, we all got kicked out of Calvary and I mean literally taken aside and told not to come back!!  Which I couldn’t be more grateful for now!!  You can’t believe how many people have heard our story since then and said that the only reason a pastor would be so adamant that child abuse be kept a secret is if was a child abuser!!!”

Here is the recounting of another terrible story of cult-like counseling from an eyewitness:

“There was a point that Sue Dowds told me, that I was not to question her in any way. If I did I was in sin, and I needed to repent now… I just looked at her thinking She is off her rocker, Im not aloud to question her. But, of couse I didnt say anything. Just wanted to get through the moment and “survive”

I was given a list of who my friends could be….. how controlling is that.

I was also told how to dress, not allowed to show my arms. Visalia summer no tank tops”

The above examples should never happen at a Calvary Chapel..and make me righteously angry. I do not accept that this is tolerable behavior by a sitting Calvary Chapel pastor and his surrogates. I strongly encourage Pastors and Leaders in the CC Movement to unite together and denounce this sort of cult-like counseling…all stemming from the leadership of pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia.

 Posted by at 9:42 pm

  47 Responses to “You might be a cult leader if…”

  1. Wait! Your telling me that a Visalia Police Chaplin told someone to keep quiet about their father moleting them? What!!! Does the Visalia Police Dept. know that?! Aren’t you required to report that as a pastor and a police chaplin?

  2. Tina, this testimony makes me very upset. I have grieved over it many times since receiving it.

    Bob Grenier is an active Calvary Chapel pastor, an active Visalia Police Department Chaplain and has Department of Homeland Security clearance.

    If Bob is qualified to hold those positions and have those clearances…we as a society have MAJOR problems.

    Note to Steve Aspinall, self appointed Calvary Chapel apologist, I’d like to see you come back on here and defend this sort of counseling you gnat straining Pharisee.

  3. Yes Tina…you are right to question. Bob is a Mandated Reporter, and so is a man wearing a badge. In today’s world, failure to report is a very serious offense, especially in the case of child abuse. The mountain is building. For the sake of this dear family, and all the others who may not have come forward yet, I pray that the VPD and any other agency that finds out about this will walk into the CCV office and demand an explaination.

  4. I am aware of a former pastor who was severely treated in counseling sessions with Bob Grenier, and the Dowds. He may have already submited an accounting of that.

  5. I wonder who our visitors are from Moscow,Beijing, Korea,and Japan? Alex, this blog went global within the first week it was published.
    Note to the readers far and wide: If you are interested in seeing and hearing the live play out of Bob Grenier’s manipulative public ministry, you can google the churches name and watch tomorrows church services live between 8-11:30 am. I warn you though, it will take some careful listening but you will find it intriguing in light of what you are hearing here. Be a Berean, and pray for discernment.

  6. CCV is obviously the last place any family should go for counseling. Families are divided the second they walk through the doors. Many children go to CCV after parents have been “shown the door”. Many parents remain at CCV after children have been “removed” or even worse “disowned”. Husbands are told to “keep their wives in line” and wives are free labor to the CCV machine. Men are stationed at every door to make sure that the “delicate genius” is not distracted. Visitors innocently walk into the “sanctuary” with their children only to be pounced on by headset-wearing, polo shirt-matching robots with stacks of laminated cards. CCV is the perfect place to be if you don’t want to think for yourself and be told where to park, where to sit, where to serve, and who to associate with and who to shun. CCV practices the fine art of shunning and they are masters!

    Yes, CCV is very cult-like and I do feel sorry for those who are entangled and want to break free but are held there because family members are bound there too.

    Pastors, school teachers, day care workers, social workers, nurses, police officers and a list many others are bound by law to report crimes of child abuse. The young woman’s account above should have been reported (among many others) by the pastoral staff at CCV. Someone’s head should roll and I’m talking present tense. And if you are in one of the above positions, you may want to be informed as to what your responsibilities are in your professional field of employment as a “mandated reporter” and make sure you are not breaking the law in California. Only Clergy are exempted from this mandate if the abuse was discovered during a “penitential communication” (a confession for forgiveness) which was not the case in the account above. Either people are ignorant of their responsibilities and seriously need to be informed, or they are knowingly covering up serious crimes.

    Link to Mandated Reporting Laws
    http://www.pca-ca.org/cgi-bin/laws

  7. I have some repenting to do this morning. Recounting the testimonies in this article…frankly…made me very angry. My emotions got the better of me in some of the language used. I am going to edit out some of the raw emotion and leave the rest as an accounting of terrible counseling and handling of situations that has gone on at Calvary Chapel Visalia under Bob Grenier’s leadership.

  8. Your Mom, there are families who are divided right now. People are contacting me. This “dividing” is going on in Real Time.

    It breaks my heart and makes it important that Bob Grenier is dealt with by his board and elders or Calvary Chapel. People are suffering at CCV right now.

  9. What is the statute of limitations for not reporting? How long ago did this family receive this counseling by Grenier?
    Alex, can describe the Real Time actions that are taking place to divide families. How specifically is Bob doing this now?
    I think at this point it would be best to attempt to pursuade the ‘better’ men like Brent Calvin, and Jeff Fly to step it up. I believe Jeff Fly has been or is currently the president of a state level psychiatric organization. I checked it once. I’ll check into it again to be sure. He of all people should be able to see that something wrong is going on. And he has a huge burden as a psychiatric professional to protect anyone who is being victimized. As for Brent Calvin, he is the son of a very successful local business executive, he was a successful CEO himself before coming to the College of Sequoias. He was first the athletic director, now he has an administrator job in the executive office working directly with Bill Scroggins, President of COS. Brent is no lightweight. He has the capability to step up to Bob, and if he does not, then when this story reaches the level it is headed toward, he will be publically humiliated. That is not right for a man of sterling character to be dragged down by Bob Grenier. Alex(and any others who know Brent and Jeff personally), keep trying to speak with them to alert them to the deeper issues. I personally do not want to see these and other good men hurt.

  10. Yet another example of the untrained “pastors” that Calvary Chapel produces. Anyone who has attended seminary and taken an intro to family counseling course knows about mandatory reporting.

  11. Oh, Doug, spare me.

    Or as my wife would say, “Really??”

    Oh that it was that simple…

  12. Tina, correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t everyone who was involved in childrens ministry at CCV have to take training on how to hug a child, child abuse reporting, etc etc for insurance purposes. So that would mean EVERYONE at the church who suspected would be legally bound to report abuse. Of course this was only a couple of years ago.

  13. More clarification on part of this article.

    One of my sources says the step-father who sexually abused his step-daughter was employed by Calvary Chapel Visalia. I am seeking more corroboration on this item. It is my opinion that if that is true, then Bob Grenier pressured the daughter and the mother not to report the abuse because he was more concerned about protecting the image of Calvary Chapel Visalia than he was about doing the right thing.

  14. If that is true Alex, then share this with the trusted sources you have to determine the best way to proceed. That would be a criminal act.

  15. I have more clarification from sources. The man was compensated by Calvary Chapel Visalia for groundskeeping/maintenance.

    He confessed to the molestation and spent time in jail.

    wide awake, I am notifying the Visalia Police Department and my media contacts of these serious allegations.

  16. The rest of this family’s story is a true example of how Jesus Christ can change somebodys heart and exactly what we are hoping will happen for Bob. The step dad in this family has admitted what he has done wrong, asked for forgiveness and to this day is doing all he can to make ammends to the people in his family. He has a new and healthy relationship with his children and his grandchildren because he was honest and humbled himself. This family has truely been healed by Christ’s power and we pray the same thing will happen for Bob and his family. My sisters and i just wanted to share the end of this story for encouragement.

    Genesis 50:20 says But as for you, you meant evil against me but God meant it for good.

  17. To the Family,
    Praise God! A wonderful miracle and encouraging for all of us to hear how God does truly forgive everyone. Love you guys.

  18. To the family,

    Praise be to God, may He be glorified! What a powerful example of confession, repentance and reconciliation.

    God is a God of Justice…He is also a God of Love and Mercy and Forgiveness.

    I pray that Bob confesses and repents and seeks reconciliation.

    I have had to humble myself and own some serious sin in my life and throw myself at the mercy of God and the person who I love.

    Thank you for sharing the miracle that is occurring in your family…I stubbornly cling to hope that it will happen in my family.

  19. Yes, Lori, we ALL had to watch that video, be fingerprinted and shown how to hug and not hug kids!! When I first read this, the first thought was, “This person had to be a friend or employed by CCV” or why else would he be so adamant that they not say anything. It makes perfect sense! How sad!! I hope more and more comes out. The more I read, the more of us, I am sure, just can’t believe all that has gone on. I know that some people don’t want to talk about what happened. Some worked at the church for over 20+ years and say nothing!! Can you imagine the stories they could tell! PLEASE, if that is you and you feel you can help in protecting more people from being hurt and tell stories to Alex anonymously, pray about it. God may say you have dealt with it and moved on but has these issues that some of you have seen been dealt with concerning Bob? Has he just been protected and not had any consequences at all for any of his actions?? Pray that God would open your hearts to tell your story. I know there are many of you who read and don’t share. PRAY!!

  20. To anyone who is defending or not sure about the pastoral leadership at Calvary Chapel Visalia, let me try to express to you my simple thinking on the matter of whether or not there are issues there.

    Even though there seems to be many issues being thrown around concerning the leadership at CCV, I would like to make two observations which I believe ANY honest person seeking the truth would have to agree with.

    Point #1: The FACT is the Bob Grenier has in his family 4 sons, two daughters-in-law, and three grandchildren. The FACT is that on the CCV website, Bob has described his family as consisting of only one son, one daughter-in-law and one grandchild. This is a lie. Do any of you attending CCV have the courage to go to Bob and ask him about this? The answer is no. Why? Because you are afraid of him. Does it seem right to you that a Christian should be afraid of his pastor?

    You might say that this is all a private family matter, as I have heard so often. May I remind you that Bob is not an ordinary person, he is a Christian pastor who is bound by scriptural qualifications according to 1 Timothy 3. I challenge you to open your Bible and look at verses 4 & 5 and think about it. If a person does not have the ability to lead his own family HE IS DISQUALIFIED FROM THE MINISTRY.

    Fact: Pastor Bob Grenier has failed in being a successful leader of his own family.
    FACT: Bob Grenier IS NOT Biblically qualified to be a pastor.

    God is so smart! He knows that if a man can’t shepherd his own family, he can’t shepherd God’s family? Thus, we see all the issues being raised here. Bob shouldn’t be a pastor. He IS operating outside of God’s mandated qualifications.

    Point #2: Again, I take you to the CCV website. Look at Bob’s own requirements to serve at his church in the “how to serve at Calvary” section. In it you must sign a form which states: “I understand that I represent Christ and Calvary Chapel Visalia in my involvement with this ministry. I am prepared to temporarily remove myself from a position of serving if I am dealing with an active problem in my life that could undermine my witness and damage the church’s reputation.”

    Everyone who wants to serve God at CCV must sign this statement- EXCEPT PASTOR BOB. If anyone serving under him at CCV were to have the public accusations leveled at them like we see on this blog, they would be asked to step down until it was cleared up. But Bob’s standards for you don’t apply to him. Bob is being publicly accused of serious misdeeds, yet he is not stepping aside, like you would be asked to. Doesn’t that seem strange to you?

    Facts are Facts. I have shown you clear evidence from Bob’s own hand and Biblical mandate that you are sitting under unscriptural leadership.

    Bob’s own standards for others do not apply to him.
    Does that seem right to you?

    Many say that whatever problems are going on with Bob is not worth sacrificing the “greater good” going on at CCV. I disagree. What is going on at CCV is damaging the “greater good” of the Chruch at large.

  21. Freedom,
    The only comment I have for you is AMEN!!!!!

  22. I’ll post this link here as the info found in the pages linked probably relate most to this topic. I found this site several years ago while in the midst of my own struggles with a controlling pastor. I do not necessarily agree with everything he posts however he has done his homework on this subject and has some interesting insights that helped me break free of the unbiblical authoritarianism that is born of the CC system.

    http://procinwarn.com/ccclergy.htm

  23. If the child abuse reporting happened that way than it is wrong. However, as the wife of a Calvary assistant pastor, I have soooo learned to make sure I have heard both sides of the story. There have been times with distraught and emotional people that they have come out of a counseling session and I’ve wondered if they were in the same room as I was. It gets back to us that they are saying things that plain old didn’t happen. People often take in information through their own “filter of issues” and hear condemnation and judgment when it just wasn’t there. And oftentimes in molestation cases, women are so ambivalent about reporting, they misconstrue advice. We 100%, no exceptions, report any reports of sexual abuse…I have been in on these situations and it is terrible but so necessary to report.

  24. Lisa, What is your training for counseling people?

  25. LISA SAID:
    “If the child abuse reporting happened that way than it is wrong. However, as the wife of a Calvary assistant pastor, I have soooo learned to make sure I have heard both sides of the story. There have been times with distraught and emotional people that they have come out of a counseling session and I’ve wondered if they were in the same room as I was. It gets back to us that they are saying things that plain old didn’t happen. People often take in information through their own “filter of issues” and hear condemnation and judgment when it just wasn’t there”

    Lisa, it sounds like you’re saying you don’t believe Bob abused his boys.

    When Christians tell me they leave counseling sessions feeling condemned and judged instead of convicted I have to conclude that the “counselor” failed to do his/her job. And if I were to get back to said “counselor”, I certainly would not reveal what the ‘distraught and emotional’ person shared with me in confidence without their permission or knowledge.

  26. DOUG:
    “Lisa, What is your training for counseling people?”

    I think she already told us: “…the wife of a Calvary assistant pastor…” 8)

  27. I took a long break from Calvary Chapel and then became involved in a small Calvary far, far away from the epi-center. The pastor there was from Costa Mesa and he ruled the flock with a strong grip. There were many, many little things that he said and did that were red flags and that little voice told me this was a cult. We eventually left and found a calvary that treated people with some respect and dignity.

  28. I sure wish we had a list of every CC that threw their sheep under the bus. They say they are individual and separate, but their way of doing business seems to come from a company handbook. Here’s another blog about one of the “good CC pastors”. See what you think about Pastor Gene Pensiero.

    “I was willingly deceived by the smooth words of Pastor Gene Pensiero because I wanted peace more than anything with those who for years I called family. I allowed my hope to get the better of me, and I set aside the truth of what I went through in eager anticipation of making things right.”

    http://diaryofabrokenvessel.com/2009/11/21/calvary-chapel-hanford-follow-up-part-ii/

    Another sad story about pastoral pride and cover ups. It reaffirms my belief that if you pull back the curtain far enough on any CC pastor, strip away the bs and you will find a reproduction of Chuck and everything that goes along with it.

    Trust nothing Calvary Chapel.

  29. There is more rotten there than just the heist of funds.

  30. I agree with your comments. I attended Calvary Chapels for a while and they are right on some things but have some cultic tendencies. Calvary Chapels believe in the “Moses model” which means that the pastors do not have financial accountability with the churchgoers, unlike in most denominations in which the congregation gets a say in church directions. There is also been a tendency in the last decade of messages against the Muslim community at Calvary Chapel (which seems out of place because what does that have to do with Bible study, and aren’t all religious systems apart from Christ equally fall short, not just Islam?). for example, at Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, Pastor Raul Ries speculated that America was in danger of becoming a “Muslim country in seven years” due to the election of Barack Obama in 2009 and that Dodi Fayeed was dating Princess Diana to try to bring Islam into the British royal family. What does this stuff have to do with the Bible? and one time, Raul Ries said that he “wanted to kill” a false teacher at his church. Isnt that a crime to say that from the pulpit? They are so afraid of Muslims imposing Sharia law, but isn’t this Sharia law homegrown. Its really scarry.

  31. Raul Ries doesn’t know his ass from his elbow. I’ve always taken what he’s said with a grain of salt. Both from the pulpit and personally. I’ve traveled a lot with him around the world and he is not what he seems at all.

    However , I will say nothing but great things about Greg and Cathie Laurie. These are 2 people that in my close experiences of spending time with them are the most kind, genuine people I’ve ever met. Other Calvary Senior Pastor’s, Chuck included should take a cue from the Laurie’s on how to treat people and live by example.

    And this isn’t speculation or gossip since that’s what the critics will say. This is based on extensive time spent with this group and first hand knowledge of witnessing things that have been said and done.

  32. Misconduct/transgressions of assistant pastors and guest speakers behind any CC pulpit are imputed to the senior pastors. So I’m not buying that Raul is bad but Greg is good or that Fidel is bad but Coy is good….etc.

    Nice trick “OT” but even a dumb blonde like me aint buying it.

    Think of an unGodly twist on the Moses-Aaron relationship found in Exodos.

    16″And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.”

    So if Greg/Coy looks good it’s because the Raul types do their dirty work for them. Don’t you think Greg/Coy knew in advance what the Raul/Fidel types were going to preach on?

    “Don’t assume that because I’m blonde I’m dumb. I may well be dumb – just don’t assume it!” ;-)

  33. I have personally witnessed horrible twistings of scripture at Calvary Chapel Green Valley. I recommend the book Charismatic Captivation by Dr. Steven Lambert – which will open your eyes to all that goes on in terms of authoritative abuse in churches (and in my opinion, including Calvary Chapel!)

  34. Interesting to read about Bob Grenier and his control issues. Bob was trained by John Higgins for the ministry and John Higgins runs his church the same way. John Higgins is very controlling even to the point to call it a cult. I told the another Pastor not affiliated with John about the way he ran his church and he said it sounds like he is running a cult. John uses fear so that people don’t leave the church by telling them that the other churches have bad teachings and that he is protecting his flock from the false teachers. Their is some truth of their being bad churches but not all are bad. CC is not the only place that God can use men to teach the word. Nobody in the church has a clue as to were the money is going it is all secretive and nobody can ask with being intimidated. I guess Bob is just like the man his is trained by. Not all CC are bad but a good majority are a cult.

  35. On my post I implied that Calvary Chapel is a cult I want restate that the leadership of some of the CC’s have cult type leadership or a cult leader. Look up the word cult leader it is defined what cult leader is and you will see what a cult leader is and see if your pastor has any of these characteristics. If so you need to pray about it and leave the church where this is practiced. God Bless all those that leave an environment like that. You will need to deprogram yourself so don’t rush into another church seeking refuge. You have the Holy Spirit to rely on to help you through it. These church leaders are harmful to you and your family. Seek refuge in God’s word and the Holy Spirit God Bless. A pastor is to lead, guide, and protect people from harm. Not to deceive, manipulate, and intimidate people. Remember Jesus is the true Shepard He will protect us, lead us, and guide us.

  36. Johnny, there is much bad fruit from Shiloh (very cult-like) and the Disciples of John Higgins.

    I would agree that many from that Camp exhibit cult-like traits in their control tactics.

    It was taught at Shiloh Commune, under John Higgins’ leadership, to spank infants beginning at 6 months old. Sick.

  37. #32 I can relate to what you are saying, especially concerning Muslims. I go out most Fridays and witness to Muslims. My last Calvary Cult leadership was extremely terrified of Muslims and promote the fear heavily. I wonder if it is true fear or just a tool used to control the sheep? After all God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. 2Tim. 1:7 The fear these men should have is a fear of the LORD! Pro. 9:10

    I actually had a CC pastor tell me that Muslims being witnessed to or converted were absolutely not allowed in the church since they did not have Judeo Christian ethics. This opened the door to other false religions such as Buddhist, Hindus, Mormons etc. So are they not allowed inside the church either I asked? The fear was that they might deceive the rest of the flock. It was even stated to me that alcoholics and drug addicts were not allowed in the church and must be sent elsewhere. All this from an early Calvary leader? What about all those stories about letting drugged out dirty hippies in that might ruin the new carpet? I have heard this story from one side of the country to the other, haven’t we all?

    An analogy to witnessing to Muslims would have to be when Jonah was on top of the mountain waiting for Nineveh to be destroyed. Just as Jonah thought the Ninevites were to wicked to be saved, my ex-cult leader is very like minded with Jonah. Only difference is he wants to bring the fire down himself. Isn’t this thought of predestination of groups of people flirting with Calvinism, the cardinal sin of CC? Doesn’t the Pope pull the diving dove for this?

    The reason given for not allowing these groups of people in were they might hurt the children. At this point I was told that these groups of people would be sent elsewhere since we were a nice white middle class church. What about the pedophiles and abusers. No word about them at all. Restore them and put rules in place but no grace for the ones deceived by false religions and pharmakea! Then claim that you are the one protecting the children is insane because you simply put rules in place for pedophiles. Is this the norm in CC? Is this what they are taught to do? Our leadership training we took would confirm this to be so.

    Needles to say after this conversation it was confirmed that we were most definitely in a cult or at least under cult leadership as Johnny pointed out. They were picking who they wanted as a part of their club and man made kingdom. As I witness what all is going on in CC one must wonder if these men’s hearts are not far from the LORD. Have their hearts been hardened? Is it from unrepentant sin? I pray I never become like that. I must repent that I have anger at some of these pastors who are abusive. Especially the ones who like to hurt little children. There will come a time that they would wish they had a millstone nearby.

  38. I went to Calvary Chapel for years, and every now and then go back. I’ve never seen any of these atrocities take place, but I don’t doubt that they haven’t happen, or can’t. Where there is man, there are problems. There’s something special about “church” problems that make for a bigger problem than problems anywhere else. If I ate at Burger King, and they screwed up my order, I would not shout to the world that Burger King sucks – although some people would ( and they probably would be right). Instead I would make an adult decision… do I want to continue to give them my business? Church is no different, in the sense that, you need to make what you want to get out of it. If you don’t like the church for whatever reason, find somewhere else to go. Or start your own church or home Bible study. If there is criminal acts taking place, call the police, not the church’s front desk. And if that particular church has cult like behavior, move on… what religious group doesn’t have extremist? Be smart enough to not buy into every good sounding story. God saves, not a church, or it’s people.

  39. Actually, if we all just left instead of pointing out the clear biblical sin and calling leaders to repentance publicly, then we’d be in sin according to Scripture.

  40. Grateful

    I would agree it is the only thing as a christian to do. It’s the only biblical thing to do. If the house is on fire what do you do? Let it burn even if their could be people inside. No you yell FIRE and jump into action even if that means running into the house to see if people are inside. To remain silent is unbiblical and a cowardly thing to do. To know that others will get hurt and just walk away quietly is very irresponsible to the follow christian left in the cult or bad church with a bad pastor.

    Scott

    If you don’t attend the church on a consistant basis the things mentioned about the abuse will not be seen. It is usually seen by the person in a ministry at the church. The pastor doesn’t have a melt down or stat bad mouthing someone in front of everybody. This is all done behind the scenes when you are alone with the pastor. It is all hidden from the average attendee. The evil is all done in secert. So your Calvary Chapel experince is all good from your prospective.

    I was happy at the Calvary Chapels I went until I got involed with the ministry. Then I seen the inner workings of the church. Very bad experince from that point on. My friends have been hurt from the Calvary Chapels and we will not remain silent. The stuff that goes on the Calvary Chapels is very evil.

  41. I began to see things after I got involved.

    My neighbors saw things after they were involved for awhile. It was there in front of their faces, but they didn’t recognize how wrong it was because they were so used to some of the bad behavior, they just thought it was normal. Even with people leaving left and right, they were still blinded, that is until the pastor’s double life was revealed.

    It’s amazing how there’s often a moment, when the veil is lifted and suddenly you can not only see the wrong, but are overwhelmed with just how bad it really is.

    Failures can be found anywhere, in any church, but when a church is purposely organized is such a way so that there is no recourse when a leader does fail, the problem is then much larger than just the leader’s failure. He’s then enabled to continue in his sin and go as deep and a long as he wants to …. taking others with him.

  42. I am glad to find this blog, my family attended Rio Rancho, New Mexico Calvary and we left after we where approached by the assistant pastor and the head of security armed to confronted us for leaving and going up the street and getting coffee then staying in the lobby to drink it. Funny coming from a church that runs a for profit coffee shop in their lobby and a for profit book store all under the protection of the church tax except status. This is a church interested in power and money, god id second.
    The assistant pastors suggest that what we needed to marriage counseling for leaving the church and that they had been watching us. Now that in and of itself freaks me out that they think they need to put me and my wife into counseling for leaving during service and getting coffee that came from Starbuck even though they run a coffee shop. Now they also stated that they were concerned for our children that buy leaving for the small time put them in danger. OK they target the children all the time and try to bring people into the church and that is why they make you give them cell number and sign children into and out of class.
    Bottom line yes they are very close to being considered a cult.

  43. Great post, I believe website owners should larn a lot from this site its real user genial . “Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck.” by George Carlin.

  44. While I can say I have attended Calvary Chapel a couple of times throughout the years, Harvest Christian Fellowship has been my home for many many years. I first began attending back in 1982 when I was a Senior in high school, Pastor Greg was wearing the Aloha Shirts & OP shorts and it was Calvary Chapel at the time. I have never in all my years attending Harvest witnessed any cult type behavior and Pastor Greg Laurie has always been upfront, first & foremost about God, the Bible, repentance and forgiveness. I feel blessed to have Greg Laurie as our Senior Pastor, he is a wonderful person, father, husband, grandfather.

    Sad to hear of the many horrible things going on at Calvary chapels, sadly there are many that are more obsessed with their way, their control that they have lost sight of their purpose in serving God…God is a God of Love, ignorance, lying and obstructing justice is NOT how God wants us to be.

  45. Give no money to Calvary Chapel. It is a cult. Power is their drug of choice. Many people feel raped by the pastoral staff, a clique of demigods who think they can do no wrong. These are very dangerous and mentally ill people. Stay away and do not get hooked or you may never get out. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. Where the “distinctives” of Calvary Chapel are there is counterfeit Christianity. Run as fast as you can and as far as you can to get far away from these deranged monsters.

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